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View Full Version : KW on cubs flagship in minutes.


Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:23 PM
tune in.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-13-2004, 07:24 PM
So, uh, ESPN 1000? :?: Or are you being serious and you mean WGN 720?

MarkyBear
12-13-2004, 07:24 PM
Can it be listened to online???

MeanFish
12-13-2004, 07:24 PM
HE SHOULD BE BUSY SIGNING PEREZ :angry:

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:25 PM
He's on now. Bulls were on 1000 tonight and the score is talking bears. Pure luck I found him tonight.

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:25 PM
720

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:27 PM
He's talking about having the flexibility to make a deal in June or July if need be.

lths06
12-13-2004, 07:28 PM
He's talking about having the flexibility to make a deal in June or July if need be.
So does that mean no starting pitcher before then?:angry:

Tragg
12-13-2004, 07:29 PM
He's talking about having the flexibility to make a deal in June or July if need be.What?
The salary dump was to provide June flexibility?

We purposely get fleeced in December so that we can provide the flexibility to get fleeced in June (when you know you will be fleeced when looking for players).

This is a joke

lths06
12-13-2004, 07:32 PM
What?
The salary dump was to provide June flexibility?
Yes, it makes perfect sence. Get 10 games back, then realize we need another pitcher, then trade for one before the deadline and play catch-up

When will they learn???????

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:34 PM
"We are in the game now, we now have the flexibility to make a move in June or July if we have to. He says Crede needs to be more consistent and needs to step up this year".

Tragg
12-13-2004, 07:35 PM
Yes, it makes perfect sence. Get 10 games back, then realize we need another pitcher, then trade for one before the deadline and play catch-up

When will they learn???????
The logic blows my mind

Dig yourselves into a hole by mid-season, then make some desparate moves (like a $4 million Everett salary) to try to play a game of catch-up.

chisoxmike
12-13-2004, 07:35 PM
:KW
"I'll make another one that sucks."

santo=dorf
12-13-2004, 07:36 PM
What?
The salary dump was to provide June flexibility?

We purposely get fleeced in December so that we can provide the flexibility to get fleeced in June (when you know you will be fleeced when looking for players).

This is a joke:reinsy
"If I get a pitcher in July, I only half to pay him for half of the season."

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:39 PM
"He used the word "scary" with what the pitching market is going for. He says he will see what happens regarding getting a pitcher in free agency. "We need to do a better job of scouting". That was in regards to the question regarding teams with payrolls over 100 million.

SpartanSoxFan
12-13-2004, 07:41 PM
"We are in the game now, we now have the flexibility to make a move in June or July if we have to. He says Crede needs to be more consistent and needs to step up this year".
D'OH!!!!!!!!!!

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:41 PM
KW really seemed thrilled with this move.

JRIG
12-13-2004, 07:41 PM
:KW

"At some point in July, Roberto Alomar will become available. Then we go for the jugular."

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:42 PM
Doug Padilla now on 720.

CPditka
12-13-2004, 07:44 PM
unacceptable, plain and simple.

tadscout
12-13-2004, 07:44 PM
"We are in the game now, we now have the flexibility to make a move in June or July if we have to. He says Crede needs to be more consistent and needs to step up this year".
Anyone notice the- 'We're in the game now'... HELLO... don't freak out yet!!! Remember, flying under the radar...

fusillirob1983
12-13-2004, 07:47 PM
It does seem like the moves that he's made so far have been kept pretty quiet until the day that it's made. Let's get us our 5th starter.

Lip Man 1
12-13-2004, 07:47 PM
If Kenny was serious about that 'June / July' comment then this blows worse then last year's 'if the fans come out we'll have the flexibility to make in deal in June / July,' BS.

Let's assume for a moment Kenny means what he says.

That means friends and neighbors that the Sox payroll will be around 65 -66 million dollars RIGHT AROUND where Bob Flotman and some other writers said it would be. (and got ripped apart by the Friends Of Uncle Jerry, who INSISTED it would be above 70 and many said 75 million.)

We'll see what happens.

Lip

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:48 PM
Padilla mentioned that he thinks KW is not happy with what guys like Clement are asking for. He ideally wants Garland to be a 5, not a 3. This is Padilla's opinion, not KW.

nodiggity59
12-13-2004, 07:49 PM
Guys, seriously. I'm not that hot about over paying for Perez, Clement, or Lowe. I'd rather get somebody for a one year deal - Alvarez, Duque, Lima, Mullholand, or Ismael Valdez, than be stuck paying Odalis Perez $9mil.

Then, at the deadline, we trade for Sheets :cool:

mdep524
12-13-2004, 07:52 PM
Padilla mentioned that he thinks KW is not happy with what guys like Clement are asking for. He ideally wants Garland to be a 5, not a 3. This is Padilla's opinion, not KW.
..which is why we should be TRADING for an established, fairly priced starting pitcher. Unless KW still plan to trade Konerko, he's just lost his best bargaining chip in Lee. Payroll flexiblity means nothing if there's no one to sign, and Tim Hudson is not a FA.

chisoxmike
12-13-2004, 07:55 PM
I don't think you'd be overpaying for Lowe.

Make the move Kenny!

Rex Hudler
12-13-2004, 07:55 PM
It does seem like the moves that he's made so far have been kept pretty quiet until the day that it's made. Let's get us our 5th starter.
Looks like we already did. With the addition of Luis Vizcaino, Dustin Hermanson may just be the guy.

batmanZoSo
12-13-2004, 07:55 PM
:reinsy
"If I get a pitcher in July, I only half to pay him for half of the season."
In all fairness, Garcia's still here, isn't he? But we definitely need to get that pitcher now. We're not gonna slug it out anymore, so we have to have 5 quality pitchers.

Palehose13
12-13-2004, 07:55 PM
The guys that conducted the interview said (after it was over) that they felt that Kenny was going to put something else under the tree for Sox fans. Sounds much like how Boers & Bernsie were at the end of their KW interview when they asked about Dye...and he was signed the next day.

Justafan
12-13-2004, 07:57 PM
I doubt KW is done, regardless of the June/July comment. I think he is just happy to get rid of the 8.5M due to Lee.

rwcescato
12-13-2004, 07:58 PM
..which is why we should be TRADING for an established, fairly priced starting pitcher. Unless KW still plan to trade Konerko, he's just lost his best bargaining chip in Lee. Payroll flexiblity means nothing if there's no one to sign, and Tim Hudson is not a FA.
If that is what he says then its bs. There is no way you trade Lee
for another of and rp when we have that. He has to have something else
in mind or he is an idiot. He is just using it to squak any other rumors.
At least I hope so.
Rich

nodiggity59
12-13-2004, 07:59 PM
What's with the Lowe hard on? His ERA was over 5 last year.

When I look at Perez and Clement's stats, I see 3 years $18-20 mil. How many people think they'll go that cheap. I don't.

Sign Duque or Lima and trade for Sheets or Unit at the deadline.

voodoochile
12-13-2004, 08:00 PM
Guys, seriously. I'm not that hot about over paying for Perez, Clement, or Lowe. I'd rather get somebody for a one year deal - Alvarez, Duque, Lima, Mullholand, or Ismael Valdez, than be stuck paying Odalis Perez $9mil.

Then, at the deadline, we trade for Sheets :cool:
Aside from the Ben Sheets thing, I think that is exactly where the Sox are headed. Find an older veteran pitcher to pitch in the 5-hole who will sign a 1-2 year contract for 6-10M total (second year probably a team option with a buyout) and call it a day.

cornball
12-13-2004, 08:06 PM
Seems to me this budget of about 72 million is cast in stone. Based on KW comments.

Palehose13
12-13-2004, 08:06 PM
One more thing...KW mentioned that he was VERY excited about the bullpen. IIRC, he stated just a few days a go that he was done with the pen. Oh Kenny...you are so stealth!

pinwheels3530
12-13-2004, 08:07 PM
He should have traded Carl Everett instead of CLee.....The trade sucks!!!!!:angry:

munchman33
12-13-2004, 08:07 PM
He's on now. Bulls were on 1000 tonight and the score is talking bears. Pure luck I found him tonight.
Pure luck? Should that be in teal?

Justafan tuning into the Cub's flagship station. Gentlemen, I give you exhibit C.

LOL Just razzin' ya. :D:

delben91
12-13-2004, 08:09 PM
He should have traded Carl Everett instead of CLee.....The trade sucks!!!!!:angry:
Do you honestly think the Brewers would've viewed Carl Everett as an equal to Carlos Lee? Age and injury history alone are enough to label Carlos as having double the trade value.

But to steal Daver's line, what the heck do I know?

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 08:11 PM
He should have traded Carl Everett instead of CLee.....The trade sucks!!!!!:angry:
Yeah, then K should have turned around and dealt Borchard for RJ+cash. The fact that he hasn't made that obvious move shows that he's just a moron.

Foulke You
12-13-2004, 08:11 PM
I have to think this deal is a precursor to another trade. At least I hope.

I do like how the bullpen is shaping up with veteran arms Hermanson and Vizcaino instead of Neal Cotts and Jon Adkins. Add that to Polite, Marte, and Shingo and we have a pretty solid 5 guys in the pen. If this lefty we signed up from SF if any good, the bullpen could be a strength next year.

However, a bullpen does little good if it gets used up every 5th start to come in for a Grilli/Diaz/Munoz type pitcher who lasts 3 innings a start. I will wait for the second act of this trade before I pass judgment on KW. I just hope he knows what he is doing...

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 08:20 PM
If Kenny was serious about that 'June / July' comment then this blows worse then last year's 'if the fans come out we'll have the flexibility to make in deal in June / July,' BS.

Let's assume for a moment Kenny means what he says.

That means friends and neighbors that the Sox payroll will be around 65 -66 million dollars RIGHT AROUND where Bob Flotman and some other writers said it would be. (and got ripped apart by the Friends Of Uncle Jerry, who INSISTED it would be above 70 and many said 75 million.)

We'll see what happens.

Lip
Just curious Lip, if you mean the Foltman who made this comment since that one a month or so back:

With the signing of pitcher Dustin Hermanson on Wednesday and outfielder Jermaine Dye on Thursday, the Sox are almost at their payroll budget for the season—nearly $72 million.
I guess Foltman didn't mean it when he said that, he REALLY meant it back a while when he made his first comment.

pinwheels3530
12-13-2004, 08:22 PM
Do you honestly think the Brewers would've viewed Carl Everett as an equal to Carlos Lee? Age and injury history alone are enough to label Carlos as having double the trade value.

But to steal Daver's line, what the heck do I know?

So we keep the offensive player with age and history instead of the youger one who hits for average and power......becuase JR is to cheap to raise payroll and pay for some offense, defense and pitching......basically put a major league team on the field:angry:

Palehose13
12-13-2004, 08:26 PM
So we keep the offensive player with age and history instead of the youger one who hits for average and power......becuase JR is to cheap to raise payroll and pay for some offense, defense and pitching......basically put a major league team on the field:angry:
I'm willing to bet that KW tried to move Konerko instead of CLee, but there wasn't much interest in PK. But you are so right 70-75mil is no where near a MLB payroll...it is sooo obvious that he is cutting payroll year after year. :rolleyes:

You know, I'm not a big fan of JR but the way some of you believe that he is the root of all evil makes me look like a big fan.

Sox Mobile
12-13-2004, 08:27 PM
Aside from the Ben Sheets thing, I think that is exactly where the Sox are headed. Find an older veteran pitcher to pitch in the 5-hole who will sign a 1-2 year contract for 6-10M total (second year probably a team option with a buyout) and call it a day.
How right you are. Carlos was traded to balance the budget. KW has no intention of using the $$ to go after a FA pitcher.

No sense in holding our breath for a big trade, we have nothing left to trade, he cant completely deplete our offense by losing Konerko.

Lip Man 1
12-13-2004, 08:27 PM
Flight:

We've yet to see if anyone else is shipped out right? I mean Kenny might not be done creating 'financial flexibility' right?

I seriously hope Rich and others are right when they say this has to lead to something else, but these are the White Sox remember.

Meanwhile the Friends Of Uncle Jerry remain adament to protect his wallet, while the franchise continues to slink into oblivion.

Remember their motto...'profits over pennants!'

The dumbing down of some Sox fans continues.

Lip

EMel9281
12-13-2004, 08:32 PM
If KW does not have a move in mind when he made this deal, then I think we'll all be ready with the pruning shears for a public "sacrifice." It almost seems that he has to have something lined up in order for this move to make sense. Sure, we improve on speed and defense, but we lost a 30+ home run threat. In order to balance that out, we need a complete rotation. I would think KW knows that, but, then again, I have been wrong...

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 08:33 PM
Flight:

We've yet to see if anyone else is shipped out right? I mean Kenny might not be done creating 'financial flexibility' right?

I seriously hope Rich and others are right when they say this has to lead to something else, but these are the White Sox remember.

Meanwhile the Friends Of Uncle Jerry remain adament to protect his wallet, while the franchise continues to slink into oblivion.

Remember their motto...'profits over pennants!'

The dumbing down of some Sox fans continues.

LipYes, because there have been so many saying "don't spend the savings from the trade"......but don't let facts get in the way of a catchy slogan.

It's just interesting how you pick out comments from a writer, neglecting to recognize much more recent comments that they've made on the same topic. "Fair and balanced", huh?

What did you want KW to say? "We're targeting another starter?" He knows that if for some reason he can't get it done, then he'll get skewered. Do you really think that he went to JR to get approval to LOWER payroll?

pinwheels3530
12-13-2004, 08:38 PM
I'm willing to bet that KW tried to move Konerko instead of CLee, but there wasn't much interest in PK. But you are so right 70-75mil is no where near a MLB payroll...it is sooo obvious that he is cutting payroll year after year. :rolleyes:

You know, I'm not a big fan of JR but the way some of you believe that he is the root of all evil makes me look like a big fan.

He is the root of all evil!!!!:o:

munchman33
12-13-2004, 08:45 PM
Do you really think that he went to JR to get approval to LOWER payroll?
:reinsy
"Ah, Kenny, for future reference, its a go!"

Rocklive99
12-13-2004, 08:48 PM
Flexibility til June/July? LMAO, KW will not have a job in June/July after the team he is currently giving to Ozzie will battle for third, and no one will show up to any games.

I was wondering if I could make only a couple games or around three or four after the ticket prices were raised, and if this move stays like this and nothing else is done to improve to the club, will go to ZERO games.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-13-2004, 08:52 PM
If this plays out like Kenny Williams apparently is telling us it will, he needs to be fired.

***!

If all Williams wanted was "flexibility" for next June/July, why not keep Carlos Lee and trade him for "flexibility" next June/July? He's worth a whole lot more than what the Brewers gave us!!!

We got fleeced because our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot.
:mad:

SoxxoS
12-13-2004, 08:53 PM
:chickenlittle:prozac


Please.

Gosox1917
12-13-2004, 08:56 PM
KW going to JR to make sure lowering payroll really doesn't make much sense, unless he's planning to sign a FA pitcher soon with the money that has been made avaliable. While KW has made mistakes in the past, I don't think he's dumb enough to stop with the offseason action now. IMO, there will be another starting pitcher coming to the southside before the season starts.

MRKARNO
12-13-2004, 08:58 PM
:chickenlittle:prozac


Please.
It's hard not to freak out when your favorite team's GM does a salary dump and tells us he doesnt plan to use the money we gained in that dump

SpartanSoxFan
12-13-2004, 08:58 PM
I have to believe there is a method to KW's madness...


...then I remembered he traded to get Roberto Alomar & Carl Everett again last season.
:bundy

PaleHoseGeorge
12-13-2004, 08:59 PM
News flash for Kenny "Flexibility" Williams. If you think the price of pitching is "crazy" in December, wait till next June/July when there is a pennant chase going on.

The man just needs to shut his ****ing mouth.... quit while you're behind, Kenny. You're only making it worse for yourself.
:mad:

Soxfest
12-13-2004, 09:00 PM
If this plays out like Kenny Williams apparently is telling us it will, he needs to be fired.

***!

If all Williams wanted was "flexibility" for next June/July, why not keep Carlos Lee and trade him for "flexibility" next June/July? He's worth a whole lot more than what the Brewers gave us!!!

We got fleeced because our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot.
:mad:
I agree KW just does not get it at times, to actually say may spend in June/July makes you wonder why the hell he is still GM.

ode to veeck
12-13-2004, 09:00 PM
We needed a leadoff hitter but ... did we have to give up our best hitter and Cubkiller to get one (esp with Maggs gone, Hurt injured)? If you thought the run scoring challenged Sox were a problem last year after losing Maggs and Hurt, wait'll you see what happens this year. I'd have to give this one a big C- for a grade at this point.

CPditka
12-13-2004, 09:00 PM
Does anyone think that KW really has ambition of obtaining Sheets? I dont, If he really did, why did he not include him in this deal. It would only have made sense. I dont think he will do this deal at the deadline.

Hitmen77
12-13-2004, 09:05 PM
KW on cubs flagship in minutes.
Why? Is this some official surrender ceremony where he officially hands the Chicago market to the Cubs?

southsideirish71
12-13-2004, 09:05 PM
"If I see any more home run swings with 2 strikes, I am going to throw up." KW 08.06.04.

That quote if you remember was just after Carlos Lee stuck out after trying to hit a home run with men on against the Twinks with 2 strikes. That quote told Lee's fate at that point.

Sox Mobile
12-13-2004, 09:09 PM
I dont think the Brewers have any intention of getting rid of Sheets.

Why would a club put out 8 million for a position player, then get rid of their star pitcher?

It seems the Brewers are actualy trying to improve their team.

kojak
12-13-2004, 09:11 PM
We needed a leadoff hitter but ... did we have to give up our best hitter and Cubkiller to get one (esp with Maggs gone, Hurt injured)? If you thought the run scoring challenged Sox were a problem last year after losing Maggs and Hurt, wait'll you see what happens this year. I'd have to give this one a big C- for a grade at this point.

Take it easy, my fellow Kolly-fornian. In 2005, we won't be losing 10-8 slugfests.

Rather, we will be losing 3-1 slogfests... :?:

munchman33
12-13-2004, 09:11 PM
Here's my opinion.

If I'm Kenny Williams, why even go on CUBS radio? That's a rather odd decision, whether or not the Sox station can't accommodate him. WSCR has plenty of Sox fans listening, why not go on there?

Perhaps Kenny went on to set up the Flubs radio guys. After such a big trade, why give them the real exclusive? These guys were prime targets for some patented KW misdirection.

:KW
"As you can clearly see, I have nothing under either of my sleeves"

Rocklive99
12-13-2004, 09:15 PM
I know the Score does MNF, but Im not sure what time the interview was done at, and I'm sure they do a pregame, but yeah it sounds weird

Also, while were on the subject, I kept going back and forth on my long drive to school (5pm), and all I heard on both stations was ongoing Notre Dame talk :angry:

Troupis
12-13-2004, 09:17 PM
I'm afraid of biting my tongue so I won't insult KW (too much). Although I think his idea of talent is a little off (Roberto, Everett, Koch...).

Without a deal before June/July we have replaced Mags & CLee with Dye and Poser. Ouch.

If we don't make a deal JR has seriously insulted the fans in a Blackhawk owner kind of way...

What I see right now is:

-worse hitting
-up in ticket prices
-still no 5th starter
-JR with more money

Sox Mobile
12-13-2004, 09:23 PM
I'm afraid of biting my tongue so I won't insult KW (too much). Although I think his idea of talent is a little off (Roberto, Everett, Koch...).

Without a deal before June/July we have replaced Mags & CLee with Dye and Poser. Ouch.

If we don't make a deal JR has seriously insulted the fans in a Blackhawk owner kind of way...

What I see right now is:

-worse hitting
-up in ticket prices
-still no 5th starter
-JR with more money
Bingo

Ol' No. 2
12-13-2004, 09:52 PM
For heaven's sake. Is there anyone who thinks it would be better for KW to announce to the world who he's targetting? And maybe how much he plans to pay for good measure? Maybe nothing more will happen, but you can't take literally what he says on a radio show. Jeez. I think everyone's overworked from running up 500 posts on nothing.

pinwheels3530
12-13-2004, 09:54 PM
I'm afraid of biting my tongue so I won't insult KW (too much). Although I think his idea of talent is a little off (Roberto, Everett, Koch...).

Without a deal before June/July we have replaced Mags & CLee with Dye and Poser. Ouch.

If we don't make a deal JR has seriously insulted the fans in a Blackhawk owner kind of way...

What I see right now is:

-worse hitting
-up in ticket prices
-still no 5th starter
-JR with more money


More money in my pocket because I didn't renew my season tickets after tonite I am sure glad I made that decision. Screw you JR!!!!

SoxxoS
12-13-2004, 10:03 PM
For heaven's sake. Is there anyone who thinks it would be better for KW to announce to the world who he's targetting? And maybe how much he plans to pay for good measure? Maybe nothing more will happen, but you can't take literally what he says on a radio show. Jeez. I think everyone's overworked from running up 500 posts on nothing.
Exactly.
KW has NEVER reavealed anything through the media except for the one time (and I forgot who it was, but I remember at the press conference he said it was a mistake). So what makes you think he is going to go on WGN and say we are very interested in Perez/Clement/Grandma which in turn would drive their price up to the Sox due to KW's interest? It's simple economics.

PaulDrake
12-13-2004, 10:09 PM
The guys that conducted the interview said (after it was over) that they felt that Kenny was going to put something else under the tree for Sox fans. More coal in the stocking?

PaulDrake
12-13-2004, 10:21 PM
If this plays out like Kenny Williams apparently is telling us it will, he needs to be fired.

***!

If all Williams wanted was "flexibility" for next June/July, why not keep Carlos Lee and trade him for "flexibility" next June/July? He's worth a whole lot more than what the Brewers gave us!!!

We got fleeced because our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot.
:mad: Then why, why oh why are so many here giddy with euphoria? They have to play the games but at first glance this is a truly bad trade. The only ones who should be giddy are Brewers fans.

Hitmen77
12-13-2004, 10:30 PM
Then why, why oh why are so many here giddy with euphoria? They have to play the games but at first glance this is a truly bad trade. The only ones who should be giddy are Brewers fans.
:reinsy
"You can fool some of the people all of the time"....one of my favorite sayings!

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 10:41 PM
Per the White Sox conf call on the trade from KW:

"Now we have the luxury that we haven't had in quite some time to be able to go out in the market and explore oportunities that exist with regards to that 5th spot and a starting pitcher."

"Worst case scenario, we still have confidence in a Jason Grilli and potentially a Scott Shoeneweis in that 5th spot and we go into the season witha litle bit extra in the coffers to make that June/July push and make ourselves that much better"

These are exact quotes. So they ARE exploring FA starters, if they can't get someone, then (and only then) will they have that extra to use in-season.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled rants.

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 10:53 PM
Per the White Sox conf call on the trade from KW:

"Now we have the luxury that we haven't had in quite some time to be able to go out in the market and explore oportunities that exist with regards to that 5th spot and a starting pitcher."

"Worst case scenario, we still have confidence in a Jason Grilli and potentially a Scott Shoeneweis in that 5th spot and we go into the season witha litle bit extra in the coffers to make that June/July push and make ourselves that much better"

These are exact quotes. So they ARE exploring FA starters, if they can't get someone, then (and only then) will they have that extra to use in-season.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled rants.
More quotes:

"We're gonna actively be out there, you know, looking for that guy that can be another impact type guy and add it to a rotation that we already feel good about"

"What you're really talking about is 1 through 15 or 16 because you never know what may happen" (in regards to needing more than 5 pitchers and 6 relievers)

"We'll spend it if it gives us an impact player at a position where we can either upgrade and make our offense better or make that starting spot and find that impact guy in that starting spot"

"Having enough flexibility financially to go out and add yet another player"

When asked about Matt Clement, he backed off and then said "We've heard of him". He also says "I can't deny that we've talked to Matt's agent".

He also says the PTBNL is a minor league player: "A minor league organizational type guy".

Another intersting comment - "Brian Anderson is still in our plans". If Podsednik works out, they'll really have some flexibility in terms of trade since they'll have Rowand & Podsednik locked up cheap for a while

fuzzy_patters
12-13-2004, 11:10 PM
If KW does not spend the extra money this offseason, I think it will go in management's pockets. Teams do not increase payroll in June or July if they are already out of contention, and it appears that is where this club is headed.This team is not good enough to be competitive on paper right now. Our starting pitching still has a hole, and we just decreased our offensive ability by giving up a decent major league hitter for a guy who has had a mediocre OBP at best and no pop. Unless payroll is added before the season starts, I suspect this is a scam to be able to decrease payroll without angering the fan base.

Tragg
12-13-2004, 11:14 PM
He also says the PTBNL is a minor league player: "A minor league organizational type guy".

Can I take this to mean a career minor leaguer, whose sole purpose is to fill out a AAA roster?

TheBull19
12-13-2004, 11:43 PM
Let's look at this in prospective. Yes, we lost Maggs and Lee, but Maggs is a huge question mark who in the future may be unable to even produce at Dye's level, who was acquired at a good price. KW has greatly improved the sox pitching staff since the beginning of last year. We now have a solid bullpen, last year the 'pen was extremely questionable going in to the season. He has turned the sox rotation of 2 years ago from question mark after question mark after Buerhle into potentially one of the tops in the game, particularly if he acquires another good pitcher, which would have been impossible given the projected payroll before this trade was made. Having Hermanson in the pen may give the sox something that seperates quality teams from the rest, a solid emergency option for the rotation, and an immediate backup plan if the sox need a closer.

Yes, we lost two quality OF'ers, but here KW dealt from depth, where we now have Rowand, Dye, Everett, Podsednik, Perez and the sox top two position prospects in Anderson and Sweeney. He has in effect replaced a rapidly declining Jose Valentin with Jose Uribe, who has more offensive and defensive potential than Valentin ever had. He has turned a weak defensive club over the last few years into a team with solid to above average gloves at every position. Before last season, the sox bench looked very thin. Now we fret over whether Thomas will be healthy, well I personally think having Everett and Gload as 2nd and 3rd options to take his place in the lineup indicates the sox have pretty good depth.

Still, the sox need that 5th starter and a good utility infielder, and the catcher situation isn't ideal. I think there(catcher) we will need to make due with what we have, but the sox could sign someone like Counsell for around 1 to 1.5 mil to add a quality utility man and signing even a mediocre veteran SP will put this team in better position to win that it has been in years.

I have a feeling, though, that the Sox are going to pull out the guns this year and go for it the signing of a quality free agent arm. This is the time, considering how the Scrub Love has soured since the 2nd half of last year. It's time for the Sox to re-take Chicago, and I think they know it.

TommyJohn
12-13-2004, 11:48 PM
I have a feeling, though, that the Sox are going to pull out the guns this year and go for it the signing of a quality free agent arm. This is the time, considering how the Scrub Love has soured since the 2nd half of last year. It's time for the Sox to re-take Chicago, and I think they know it.
This is the most hilarious thing I've read on here in quite a while.

TheBull19
12-13-2004, 11:57 PM
This is the most hilarious thing I've read on here in quite a while.
It's true, though. Cubs fans all thought they were heading to the WS, instead they witnessed one of the worst collapses in recent history. Sosa went from Northside demi-god to pariah and every one in baseball witnessed the Cubs players and manager embarrass themselves by cooking up every excuse possible from blaming umpires to accusing other teams of throwing games to keep them out of the playoffs to blaming Steve Stone, who ended up resigning. The cubs went from lovable losers to "world series favorites" to hate-able losers all within the span of a year. If now is not the time for the Sox to win back market share in Chicago, it will never be.

I guess it might be hilarious to think JR sees it that way, though, but I'm going to bookmark your quote for after the Sox sign Povano.

hosieryofthegods
12-14-2004, 01:13 AM
He has in effect replaced a rapidly declining Jose Valentin with Jose Uribe, who has more offensive and defensive potential than Valentin ever had.

Who's Jose Uribe?:redneck

OurBitchinMinny
12-14-2004, 01:31 AM
I have a feeling, though, that the Sox are going to pull out the guns this year and go for it the signing of a quality free agent arm. This is the time, considering how the Scrub Love has soured since the 2nd half of last year. It's time for the Sox to re-take Chicago, and I think they know it.

If that were really true, which it is not, Uncle JR would up his payroll by at least 20 million. How are you going to take the city back from the cubs with a payroll 20-30 million less than them? The more I hear williams talk, the more this might go down as one of the worst trades he has ever made, right up there with the ritchie deal. Ive been on his bandwagon, but if he doesnt get something done, he needs to be gone. Basically they got posednik, a slightly above average player (if he steals as many bases as he has), and a guy in the bullpen who has had ups and downs for a guy who is on the verge of becoming an all star. Lee has gotten better pretty much every year. He got off to a bad start last year, but rebounded great and hit well with maggs and frank out of the lineup. I just cant get over how different this lineup will look. I know the lineup hasnt worked, but most of that blame has to go to injuries and an awful pen and back end of the rotation. And the combined managerial genius of ozzie guillen and jerry manuel. They promised changes and things have changed. I just dont want them to trot out a platoon of hermanson, schoenweis, and grilli every 5th day. If that happens, worst trade of KW career, pending how lee does in milwaukee (which will be very good)

TheBull19
12-14-2004, 01:32 AM
Who's Jose Uribe?:redneck
Yeah. yeah, you got me.

TheBull19
12-14-2004, 01:42 AM
I know the lineup hasnt worked, but most of that blame has to go to injuries and an awful pen and back end of the rotation.
And what has KW done over the last year? Improved the rotation and bullpen and opened some payroll space to fill that 5th starter void.

Parrothead
12-14-2004, 06:36 AM
Let's look at this in prospective. ....Yes, we lost two quality OF'ers, but here KW dealt from depth, where we now have Rowand, Dye, Everett, Podsednik, Perez and the sox top two position prospects in Anderson and Sweeney.
Quality OF'ers ....Everett, Podsednik, Perez ? Servicable at best. There is no threat of any of these guys making the All Star team. Well maybe but that is because someone from the Sox has to make the team.

chisoxt
12-14-2004, 06:59 AM
What?
The salary dump was to provide June flexibility?

We purposely get fleeced in December so that we can provide the flexibility to get fleeced in June (when you know you will be fleeced when looking for players).

This is a joke
I couldn't agree more. The time to improve your club is now damnit, not in June when the price is sky high.

chisoxt
12-14-2004, 07:04 AM
If this plays out like Kenny Williams apparently is telling us it will, he needs to be fired.

***!

If all Williams wanted was "flexibility" for next June/July, why not keep Carlos Lee and trade him for "flexibility" next June/July? He's worth a whole lot more than what the Brewers gave us!!!

We got fleeced because our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot.
:mad:
Not only that, it makes the Carl Everett deal look even more stupid. Had it not been for his salary that we're stuck with this year, we would have had more of that "flexibility"

davenicholson
12-14-2004, 07:20 AM
If we don't make a deal JR has seriously insulted the fans in a Blackhawk owner kind of way...

Not saying I agree nor disagree, but as a Blackhawk/White Sox fan (read: loser), this is the most poignant quote I've read in a long time. Touche', Troupis, touche'.

fquaye149
12-14-2004, 07:49 AM
If this plays out like Kenny Williams apparently is telling us it will, he needs to be fired.

***!

If all Williams wanted was "flexibility" for next June/July, why not keep Carlos Lee and trade him for "flexibility" next June/July? He's worth a whole lot more than what the Brewers gave us!!!

We got fleeced because our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot.
:mad:
George, I think you are really jumping the gun here.

Yes, you're right, nothing is in the books until it's all said and done and we do or not have another pitcher...

But maybe you could wait till then to say our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot?

It's not like we even make camp for another 4 months.

JRIG
12-14-2004, 07:51 AM
George, I think you are really jumping the gun here.

Yes, you're right, nothing is in the books until it's all said and done and we do or not have another pitcher...

But maybe you could wait till then to say our GM is a stoned ****ing idiot?

It's not like we even make camp for another 4 months.
I don't need another 4 months to make that call. :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2004, 07:59 AM
I don't need another 4 months to make that call. :D: Word up. Our GM goes on the radio and flatly states he has "flexibility" to make a trade next June/July, and the best anyone can say on his behalf is that he was just trying to throw everyone off the scent of his real plan of action.

If that were true, why not just shut the **** up?

I'm sure the Sox will sell a boatload of season tickets today.

:reinsy
"I'll give you one guess who's fault it is."

fquaye149
12-14-2004, 08:59 AM
Word up. Our GM goes on the radio and flatly states he has "flexibility" to make a trade next June/July, and the best anyone can say on his behalf is that he was just trying to throw everyone off the scent of his real plan of action.

If that were true, why not just shut the **** up?

I'm sure the Sox will sell a boatload of season tickets today.

:reinsy
"I'll give you one guess who's fault it is."
is it possible that KW is hedging his bets in case the signing doesn't go through?

look at this possible scenario and tell me if this is the wrong move in this case:
KW knows he is close to signing a pitcher which is why he pulled the trigger on the Lee deal. However in case something like the Vizquel situation happens he doesn't want Sox fans to think that he only did this trade so JR would pocket the money, so he gets on the radio and says, "in the worst case, we will have room to make deals in June/July."...

Does that seem at all reasonable? Not assuming this is the case...it's possilble KW is foolish...but name-calling without knowing the full extent of the situation?

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 09:01 AM
is it possible that KW is hedging his bets in case the signing doesn't go through?

look at this possible scenario and tell me if this is the wrong move in this case:
KW knows he is close to signing a pitcher which is why he pulled the trigger on the Lee deal. However in case something like the Vizquel situation happens he doesn't want Sox fans to think that he only did this trade so JR would pocket the money, so he gets on the radio and says, "in the worst case, we will have room to make deals in June/July."...

Does that seem at all reasonable? Not assuming this is the case...it's possilble KW is foolish...but name-calling without knowing the full extent of the situation?
Hope you are right...

History says otherwise.

How many more years have to go by before we can judge "the full extent of the situation"?

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2004, 09:09 AM
is it possible that KW is hedging his bets in case the signing doesn't go through? ....
Sure it's not only possible, I would venture to say it is probable that's what KW is doing here. The point is he never has to say one ****ing word about this. He can hedge his bets by staying silent, or saying "I always have a few tricks up my sleeve", or "Never count me out" or some other meaningless cliche that tells us exactly nothing.

But not our guy Kenny. When it comes to using the media to his advantage, he shoots himself in the foot. Telling us he has "flexibility next June/July" sends the wrong signal to the wrong audience. The players' agents know *exactly* what interest Kenny has in their players. They are the ones taking the phone calls. It's we fans who dangle on every ****ing word Kenny puts in the media, because this is all we've got!

So Kenny ****s up two ways. He fools nobody inside the baseball world about his true intentions, and he unnecessarily pisses off his own fan base too, with a comment that could just as easily been completely avoided. Let's not forget this is an organization that claims they'll only spend to the level the fans support the team.

What Kenny said is indefensible, and all the "clever genius" theories about Kenny's true motives don't hold up to careful examination.

SoxxoS
12-14-2004, 09:18 AM
Sure it's not only possible, I would venture to say it is probable that's what KW is doing here. The point is he never has to say one ****ing word about this. He can hedge his bets by staying silent, or saying "I always have a few tricks up my sleeve", or "Never count me out" or some other meaningless cliche that tells us exactly nothing.

But not our guy Kenny. When it comes to using the media to his advantage, he shoots himself in the foot. Telling us he has "flexibility next June/July" sends the wrong signal to the wrong audience. The players' agents know *exactly* what interest Kenny has in their players. They are the ones taking the phone calls. It's we fans who dangle on every ****ing word Kenny puts in the media, because this is all we've got!

So Kenny ****s up two ways. He fools nobody inside the baseball world about his true intentions, and he unnecessarily pisses off his own fan base too, with a comment that could just as easily been completely avoided. Let's not forget this is an organization that claims they'll only spend to the level the fans support the team.

What Kenny said is indefensible, and all the "clever genius" theories about Kenny's true motives don't hold up to careful examination.
Hey PHG-
Did you watch Goodfellas before writing that post? That is a lot of swear words...:D:

I also agree that KW is hedging his bets. He could also just be playing with us because he knows there are fan sights like WSI and him saying crap like that just pisses us off.

Justafan
12-14-2004, 09:22 AM
PHG, Williams did say he would try to improve the team and if he cant, he will then have the flexibility to do so in June/July. I am no defender of his, but I can't see him waiting until then to make a splash. The comments are not nearly as bad as the trade itself.

This trade was a salary dump, plain and simple. Not only that, he decided to dump a guy who might be an all-star this year for a career minor leaguer who happened to have one good year in the majors.

Palehose13
12-14-2004, 09:23 AM
Per the White Sox conf call on the trade from KW:

"Now we have the luxury that we haven't had in quite some time to be able to go out in the market and explore oportunities that exist with regards to that 5th spot and a starting pitcher."

"Worst case scenario, we still have confidence in a Jason Grilli and potentially a Scott Shoeneweis in that 5th spot and we go into the season witha litle bit extra in the coffers to make that June/July push and make ourselves that much better"

These are exact quotes. So they ARE exploring FA starters, if they can't get someone, then (and only then) will they have that extra to use in-season.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled rants.
Flight, I think everyone looked past this excellent post and if theyu didn't hear the interview last night are taking a certain poster that is always negative word for it. Most are assuming that another move is not in the works, but KW said the June/July thing is the "worse-case scenario". But hey, the Sox aren't interested in winning. They are only interested in the bottom line.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2004, 09:49 AM
Flight, I think everyone looked past this excellent post and if theyu didn't hear the interview last night are taking a certain poster that is always negative word for it. Most are assuming that another move is not in the works, but KW said the June/July thing is the "worse-case scenario". But hey, the Sox aren't interested in winning. They are only interested in the bottom line.
For the love of God, he doesn't have to say anything! He doesn't have to state a "worse case scenario." A clever GM tosses out a few cliches and let's it go at that.

And I'm sorry... those of you using sarcasm trying to illustrate your point do youself and your stated position no justice. What you're really saying is you have nothing left to defend yourself except vain attempts to belittle the contradictory position.

fquaye149
12-14-2004, 09:51 AM
For the love of God, he doesn't have to say anything! He doesn't have to state a "worse case scenario." A clever GM tosses out a few cliches and let's it go at that.

And I'm sorry... those of you using sarcasm trying to illustrate your point do youself and your stated position no justice. What you're really saying is you have nothing left to defend yourself except vain attempts to belittle the contradictory position.
George-

I suppose he could have tossed out the cliches or said nothing...but with the poison reaction to this trade we've just seen at this site, don't you think it's worthwhile to reassure fans that he's working for a starter and WORST CASE we WILL spend the money later?

Remember, there have been numerous people here who are convinced JR will pocket that 6 million...not the least of whom the windsock himself (hm....i'm glad i'm not on that side of the argument). So what KW is doing is promising that if we don't spend it now on players we will spend it later....

At least that's how I see it.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-14-2004, 09:55 AM
George-

I suppose he could have tossed out the cliches or said nothing...but with the poison reaction to this trade we've just seen at this site, don't you think it's worthwhile to reassure fans that he's working for a starter and WORST CASE we WILL spend the money later?

Remember, there have been numerous people here who are convinced JR will pocket that 6 million...not the least of whom the windsock himself (hm....i'm glad i'm not on that side of the argument). So what KW is doing is promising that if we don't spend it now on players we will spend it later....

At least that's how I see it. No, I don't. I can think of about 1 million better things for Kenny Williams to say than what he did say. Here are just a few right off the top of my head.

We're in this to win.
I'm never done. I never rest.
Don't count the Sox out.
I believe in my team and I'm always looking to make it stronger.
Worst-case scenario: the other teams are crying when we win the championship!

That sort of ****.

Tell your story walking.

fquaye149
12-14-2004, 09:57 AM
No, I don't. I can think of about 1 million better things for Kenny Williams to say than what he did say. Here are just a few right off the top of my head.

We're in this to win.
I'm never done. I never rest.
Don't count the Sox out.
I believe in my team and I'm always looking to make it stronger.
Worst-case scenario: the other teams are crying when we win the championship!

That sort of ****.

Tell your story walking.
haha fair enough. but that would certainly give us less to talk about, wouldn't it?

Tragg
12-14-2004, 10:00 AM
These are exact quotes. So they ARE exploring FA starters, if they can't get someone, then (and only then) will they have that extra to use in-season.


And that's the problem with this trade: Kenny Williams accepts a ridiculously one-sided trade from a talent perspective in order to "explore" FA starters.
If Williams actually had a plan, he would have the starter LOCKED UP. He could have waited on this debacle of a talent swap UNTIL he had a starter locked up. But no - he reacts in a desparation move to dump salary first, getting crushed in a talent exchange, then he'll explore. And if that doesn't work out, he'll take the worst of it AGAIN from a talent persepective in June to work it out.

And if you really take Williams at his word, didn't he also say a week ago that he's done with FAs for the year?

The Brewers have a lot of depth at 2b, yet Williams couldn't even negotiate a utility player like ginter, whom we could use, thrown into the deal.

That said, if he swings a FA pitcher today, then he did have plan. I'm holding my breath.

anewman35
12-14-2004, 10:07 AM
And that's the problem with this trade: Kenny Williams accepts a ridiculously one-sided trade from a talent perspective in order to "explore" FA starters.
If Williams actually had a plan, he would have the starter LOCKED UP. He could have waited on this debacle of a talent swap UNTIL he had a starter locked up.
You really have no idea what Kenny could or couldn't do. Maybe he had a deadline. You don't know.

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 10:15 AM
You really have no idea what Kenny could or couldn't do. Maybe he had a deadline. You don't know.
um... neither do you...

:KW
"deadline? We don't need no stinking deadline..."

FarWestChicago
12-14-2004, 10:17 AM
No, I don't. I can think of about 1 million better things for Kenny Williams to say than what he did say. Here are just a few right off the top of my head.

We're in this to win.
I'm never done. I never rest.
Don't count the Sox out.
I believe in my team and I'm always looking to make it stronger.
Worst-case scenario: the other teams are crying when we win the championship!

That sort of ****.

Tell your story walking.You could have a career in marketing. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif

Tragg
12-14-2004, 10:19 AM
You really have no idea what Kenny could or couldn't do. Maybe he had a deadline. You don't know.


A deadline for what?

Troupis
12-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Not saying I agree nor disagree, but as a Blackhawk/White Sox fan (read: loser), this is the most poignant quote I've read in a long time. Touche', Troupis, touche'.

Thanks for the complement! :bandance:

The similarities are starting to show...

Not that Roenick, Chelios, Belfour, etc have any good years left; I mean CLee, Mags, Olivo, etc. have any good years left...

Troupis
12-14-2004, 11:57 AM
He was referring (as am I now) to this comment:



If we don't make a deal JR has seriously insulted the fans in a Blackhawk owner kind of way...