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View Full Version : Koskie to BJays, Hinske to Sox???


DaleJRFan
12-13-2004, 11:43 AM
from MLB.com story:

Koskie's arrival also means some change for Eric Hinske, the 2002 American League Rookie of the Year. Hinske will likely move across the diamond to first base -- if he's still in the organization. The left-handed hitter has figured in trade talks, most prominently with the Chicago White Sox.
The Jays aren't finished shopping. They're believed to be one of the finalists for free agent right-hander Matt Clement, and they're also looking at one more hitter and some relief help, rumored to be short relievers Steve Kline and Billy Koch. Toronto may add one player in Monday's Rule 5 Draft, but there should be some bigger moves left on the horizon."

MLB.com story here (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041213&content_id=921819&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp)

Why would the Sox want Hinske? His numbers aren't any better than Crede. Anyone else seen/heard about this??? How about Orlando Hudson instead?

tanko
12-13-2004, 11:46 AM
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1102893009051&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&DPL=JvsODSH7Aw0u%2bwoRO%2bYKDSblFxAk%2bwoVO%2bYODS bhFxAg%2bwkRO%2bUPDSXiFxMh%2bwkZO%2bUCDSTmFxIk%2bw 8RO%2bMKDSPkFxUj%2bw8UO%2bMNDSPgFxUv%2bw8YO%2bILDS LkFxQh1w%3d%3d&tacodalogin=yes

Basically it says Koskie is taking a physical there and if he signs they want to move Hinske.

You have to register to read it.

With Koskie arriving in Toronto, the Jays have looked into trading third baseman Eric Hinske and pitcher Miguel Batista to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Carlos Lee, who would then be moved to first base. But any deal hinges upon the White Sox being satisfied that Hinske could be a capable third baseman for them, since they want to move their backup at the position, Joe Crede, to Toronto as well.

Baby Fisk
12-13-2004, 11:48 AM
Hinske would replace either Konerko at 1B or would replace Joe Crediocre at 3B, sparking another trade involving one of them.

Oh, and...

:welcome:

Huisj
12-13-2004, 11:48 AM
from MLB.com story:

Koskie's arrival also means some change for Eric Hinske, the 2002 American League Rookie of the Year. Hinske will likely move across the diamond to first base -- if he's still in the organization. The left-handed hitter has figured in trade talks, most prominently with the Chicago White Sox.
The Jays aren't finished shopping. They're believed to be one of the finalists for free agent right-hander Matt Clement, and they're also looking at one more hitter and some relief help, rumored to be short relievers Steve Kline and Billy Koch. Toronto may add one player in Monday's Rule 5 Draft, but there should be some bigger moves left on the horizon."

MLB.com story here (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041213&content_id=921819&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp)

Why would the Sox want Hinske? His numbers aren't any better than Crede. Anyone else seen/heard about this??? How about Orlando Hudson instead?
Maybe that trade points to a konerko trade, and hinske moves to first. I wouldn't be terribly pleased with that, it'd be like having the same player at both corners of the infield.

Jabroni
12-13-2004, 11:48 AM
Ummm, so who would we be getting for Joe Crede? I hope they're not suggesting that we would only get Eric Hinske and Miguel Batista for Carlos Lee and Joe Crede... :?:

DaleJRFan
12-13-2004, 11:51 AM
Oh, and...

:welcome:


Thanks!

I'd hoped that KW/Ozzie would give Crede a fair look this year. Granted, they have every reason to "move on" but Hinske is certainly no "upgrade."

Nellie_Fox
12-13-2004, 11:53 AM
Thanks!

I'd hoped that KW/Ozzie would give Crede a fair look this year.Do you think Crede hasn't gotten a fair look?

Jabroni
12-13-2004, 11:54 AM
Thanks!

I'd hoped that KW/Ozzie would give Crede a fair look this year. Granted, they have every reason to "move on" but Hinske is certainly no "upgrade."Agreed. Hinske isn't much better than Crede, if at all.

BRDSR
12-13-2004, 11:55 AM
Maybe that trade points to a konerko trade, and hinske moves to first. I wouldn't be terribly pleased with that, it'd be like having the same player at both corners of the infield.
I agree with you about the corners but it might free up the money we need to sign a quality starting pitcher, moving either Contreras or Batista to long relief.

santo=dorf
12-13-2004, 11:57 AM
Rotoworld:
Corey Koskie is a physical away from getting a three-year, $17 million contract from the Blue Jays.
Probably one year too long, but what else is new? Unless the Jays can dump his contract on another team, Eric Hinske will be moved to first base to make room for Koskie.

SOXSINCE'70
12-13-2004, 11:57 AM
It was just announced on the SNORE that Koskie signed
a 3 year pact with the Jays.I believe I heard the pact was
worth 17 mill. Hinske reminds me of a left handed Crede,
so no thanks,don't need his services.:cool: :cool:

idseer
12-13-2004, 12:00 PM
the sox couldn't be that foolish ................ could they?

mjharrison72
12-13-2004, 12:01 PM
Do you think Crede hasn't gotten a fair look?Not since they fixed the hitch in his swing.

santo=dorf
12-13-2004, 12:02 PM
Not since they fixed the hitch in his swing.Walker also said they built a batting cage in his home.

FightingBillini
12-13-2004, 12:03 PM
HORRIBLE trade. Lee is a very good player. He is signed for two more years. Team want him. Let them come to you, KW, dont go out and trade him for a bag of beans. While I wouldnt mind having Bautista, I dont want him at the expense of Carlos. I only want to trade him if we get a stud pitcher in return. Carlos and others for Hudson? We are talking. Carlos for Bautista? Get the hell out of my office.

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 12:03 PM
FWIW per dugoutdollars, Hinske makes 4.3 & 5.6 over the next 2 years. He's also a lefty and has decent speed, but bats very similarly to Joe (less power, higher avg).
Batista makes 4.75, 4.75 over the next 2 years. From a performance perspective, he seems extremely similar to Jon Garland.

So while it's a relative wash from a salary perspective we'd have 5 decent pitchers locked up for 2-3 years, and a righty-lefty swap from Crede to Hinske at 3B.

That deal blows. Hinske = Crede but at a higher salary. Even if you say Hinske's better, the increased cost has to factor in, so that's at best a wash. Lee for Batista? Hell no.

Throw in someone like Alex Rios and it might be worth considering, but even then I doubt it.

Baby Fisk
12-13-2004, 12:03 PM
Agreed. Hinske isn't much better than Crede, if at all.Hinske is a former Rookie of the Year. Not saying much I realize, but we know what we are getting with Crede. Why not give Hinske a chance? If he catches fire, that's one less glaring problem in the lineup. If he sucks, we're no farther than we would have been anyway.

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 12:04 PM
Hinske is a former Rookie of the Year. Not saying much I realize, but we know what we are getting with Crede. Why not give Hinske a chance? If he catches fire, that's one less glaring problem in the lineup. If he sucks, we're no farther than we would have been anyway.
Except you lose Carlos Lee to get Miguel Batista, which statistically appears to be Spanish for Jon Garland.

Baby Fisk
12-13-2004, 12:06 PM
Except you lose Carlos Lee to get Miguel Batista, which statistically appears to be Spanish for Jon Garland.I was ignoring that part, hoping it would just go away. :cool:

FightingBillini
12-13-2004, 12:06 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:reinsy
"Muahahahahahahaha!"

tanko
12-13-2004, 12:09 PM
As a guy who watches as many Jays games as Sox games IMO Hinske is better the Crede.He is a gap hitter and with a change of scenary could be a nice pick up.That being said this deal deal is awful.I prefer the Brewers trade to this and that trade is bad too but at least the Brewer trade gives us free money and a leadoff hitter.

infohawk
12-13-2004, 12:19 PM
I'm not too enamored with either of these guys. Sure, Hinske has had one really good season with the Jays, but has been mediocre since. He would be somewhat of a gamble. Crede plays better defense and still has some offensive upside. Bautista would be a decent fourth or fifth starter, but I think the Sox could do a bit better. Bautista had an ERA of 4.80 last year. Not much better than Garland's 4.89. Bautista's career ERA is 4.46 compared to Garland's 4.68. Bautista wouldn't be a bad acquisition in the right trade, but I wouldn't swap Carlos Lee for what would prove to be a fourth or fifth starter.

A deal like this would only make sense if the Sox were going to make Bautista the fifth starter while using the money saved from clearing Lee's salary to sign an impact free agent, either a pitcher or position player, and then turn around and package Garland and Crede to fill other holes with the major league club or in the wider organization.

SoxxoS
12-13-2004, 12:19 PM
Except you lose Carlos Lee to get Miguel Batista, which statistically appears to be Spanish for Jon Garland.
Zing...

I like Hinske...but the rookie of the year argument holds as much weight as Pat Listash did.

DaleJRFan
12-13-2004, 12:22 PM
Do you think Crede hasn't gotten a fair look?
I've been acused of being too forgiving and making excuses for Sox players, but with all the reports that Crede has fixed his "Swing Slowness" I'd hope they would give him one last shot. Crede looked like Mike Schmidt after he was called up and quickly tanked once the league discovered his slow swing. If it is "fixed" give him one last shot instead of trading him for Hinske, a player in the same situation offensively, with less defensive prowess.

tanko
12-13-2004, 12:29 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=107955

This link at the bottom says Batista for CLee and Ricciardi is hesitant to do it.Ugh

Sox Mobile
12-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Bastista had a couple flashes of greatness a few starts last year, but got beat up just as much. I bet if KW is in fact considering trading for Bastista, he is thinking he would fare better in the ALC vs a regular diet of Boston and NY.

tanko
12-13-2004, 12:34 PM
Batista ended the year as the Jays closer and was pretty good at it.Don't forget the Jays paid a big price for Hinske too.....the one and only BILLY KOCH.

jabrch
12-13-2004, 12:42 PM
Ummm, so who would we be getting for Joe Crede? I hope they're not suggesting that we would only get Eric Hinske and Miguel Batista for Carlos Lee and Joe Crede... :?:The Score just suggested that this is an option...It should save us some money also...maybe which could be used to sign a FA? I wouldn't like this - but it wouldn't be a terrible move.

Tragg
12-13-2004, 12:51 PM
As someone said above, this is essentially trading Lee for Jon Garland. Hmm, Lee or Garland, Lee or Garland, Lee or Garland.....

I didn't think it was possible, but this trade is worse than the proposed trade of Lee for Ginter and the Pods (and if you read the brewer board, they say Pods is a terrible defender).

Lee's locked up for 8 and 8.5 mill; that's not too bad, all things considered. What's the point here?

We should be able to get those players for Konerko (and it would still be a terrible deal for us) if the idea is to dump salary. Or, did we really need to take on Everett's 4 mill if we're that hard up?

Foulke You
12-13-2004, 01:20 PM
Didn't Bautista have a good year in '03 for the Dbacks? Does someone have his career stats handy? Too busy to look it up right now.

Flight #24
12-13-2004, 01:23 PM
FWIW - Rotoworld is reporting that a "mystery team" has jumped into the bidding for Clement. If the Blue Jays send cash back with Batista/Hinske so the Sox can sign Clement, that makes the deal look less horrific.

Batista moves to close, Hinske replaces Crede @ 3d, Clement-Contreras-Garland as our #3-5SPs.

I like that, but Ozzie'd better be teaching these guys to bunt because we're gonna need every single run we can scratch out.

A. Cavatica
12-13-2004, 07:09 PM
This theory is not grounded in reality, but Hinske makes a lot more sense as Crede's platoon partner than as Crede's replacement.