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WhiteSoxFan84
12-11-2004, 03:27 PM
Matt Clement, Odalis Perez, J.D. Drew, and many others have two things in common; 1) they are free agents, 2) and they won't be signing with the White Sox this offseason.

According to George Oftman, Kenny Williams has made it clear the the Sox have no more money to spend on free agents and will have to fill up their remaining holes via trades. Now more than ever KW will be pushing the deal for Javier Vazquez.

What's very interesting is a comment Ozzie Guillen made while he was on the Score yesterday. He said something to the likes of, "We need to add another pitcher to our rotation". I might be nitpicking or Ozzie may have not been paying attention, but notice how he used the words "add another pitcher" and not "upgrade our pitching staff". What I got out of it is that Jon Garland would not be dealt for Javier Vazquez. Instead, Garland would be retained and I guess more prospects would be involved in the trade. Once again, I might be nitpicking, but I found it interesting.

Ozzie also said that the bullpen was perfectly fine and that the Sox would not be looking to pick up any more relievers.

A.T. Money
12-11-2004, 03:47 PM
This organization needs to quit crying poor.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-11-2004, 03:50 PM
Great. I love the white sox philosophy of acquiring talent, one step forward and two steps back! If the white sox trade 2 guys on the roster (PK and JG) for Javier Vazquez there'll be even more holes on the team! Although what OG said it sounds if the sox were to get another SP it wouldn't involve trading garland. I do like the idea of retaining JG because if the sox were to acquire JV in a trade involving JG, the sox would still have that huge hole at the 5th spot. I find it interesting that they plan to FILL THE HOLES by trading and thus creating even MORE HOLES!!! I hate to be so pessimistic about the white sox, but this philosophy will never get the white sox anything better than 2nd place in the AL Comedy Central!

ilsox7
12-11-2004, 03:55 PM
Great. I love the white sox philosophy of acquiring talent, one step forward and two steps back! If the white sox trade 2 guys on the roster (PK and JG) for Javier Vazquez there'll be even more holes on the team! Although what OG said it sounds if the sox were to get another SP it wouldn't involve trading garland. I do like the idea of retaining JG because if the sox were to acquire JV in a trade involving JG, the sox would still have that huge hole at the 5th spot. I find it interesting that they plan to FILL THE HOLES by trading and thus creating even MORE HOLES!!! I hate to be so pessimistic about the white sox, but this philosophy will never get the white sox anything better than 2nd place in the AL Comedy Central!
Of course you completely dismiss the possibility that with the cash saved by trading 2 guys for 1 that we may be able to sign someome. This team has done plenty of thigns wrong, but let's not blast them for something that hasn't even been done yet.

Jjav829
12-11-2004, 03:57 PM
I posted this is another thread, but I'll post it here again. Levine (who I trust more than Ofman) said that as of now, Kenny doesn't plan to be busy in the free agent market. He says that right now Kenny is looking at trades to add another starter. However, he did say that if Kenny is unable to acquire a starter before the winter meetings wrap up on Monday, that they would then turn back to the free agent market and re-asses.

Also of note, Levine reported this morning that the Sox had a meeting scheduled for today with Clement and his agent, Barry Axelrod. I don't think the Sox are completely out of the free agent market right now. But any signing will likely have to come with a trade of some salary. For instance, let's say the Sox find out from Clement today that his wish is to stay in Chicago because he and his wife love the city and want to raise their new child there. Let's say Clement is willing to sign a 3-year deal in the range of $21-24 million to join the Sox. Now that's probably not feasible right now. But if Kenny is able to swing a trade of Lee or Konerko to the Blue Jays for a couple cheap players/prospects, then that salary opens up and Clement could ink his name to the contract today. Just a scenario, but I think something like that is possible. Nonetheless, I'd guess that Kenny's main priority is to trade for Vazquez/Hudson.

From everything I've heard, it seems like the payroll is basically set, but that could change. It probably wouldn't change drastically, but it sounds like if something really worthwhile comes up, Reinsdorf would approve the payroll going up a few million more.

ilsox7
12-11-2004, 04:23 PM
I posted this is another thread, but I'll post it here again. Levine (who I trust more than Ofman) said that as of now, Kenny doesn't plan to be busy in the free agent market. He says that right now Kenny is looking at trades to add another starter. However, he did say that if Kenny is unable to acquire a starter before the winter meetings wrap up on Monday, that they would then turn back to the free agent market and re-asses.

Also of note, Levine reported this morning that the Sox had a meeting scheduled for today with Clement and his agent, Barry Axelrod. I don't think the Sox are completely out of the free agent market right now. But any signing will likely have to come with a trade of some salary. For instance, let's say the Sox find out from Clement today that his wish is to stay in Chicago because he and his wife love the city and want to raise their new child there. Let's say Clement is willing to sign a 3-year deal in the range of $21-24 million to join the Sox. Now that's probably not feasible right now. But if Kenny is able to swing a trade of Lee or Konerko to the Blue Jays for a couple cheap players/prospects, then that salary opens up and Clement could ink his name to the contract today. Just a scenario, but I think something like that is possible. Nonetheless, I'd guess that Kenny's main priority is to trade for Vazquez/Hudson.

From everything I've heard, it seems like the payroll is basically set, but that could change. It probably wouldn't change drastically, but it sounds like if something really worthwhile comes up, Reinsdorf would approve the payroll going up a few million more.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary dump type of trade that looks awful for us, but allows us to sign Clement. I think the next 24 hours are going to be very, very interesting. Hell, it's Saturday night, all of the GM's are bound to hit the bar and make some fantasy trades...err, I mean real trades. :D:

Jjav829
12-11-2004, 04:28 PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary dump type of trade that looks awful for us, but allows us to sign Clement. I think the next 24 hours are going to be very, very interesting. Hell, it's Saturday night, all of the GM's are bound to hit the bar and make some fantasy trades...err, I mean real trades. :D:
LOL, I can only imagine Kenny waking up hung over tomorrow, going down to grab some breakfast and hearing a buzz around the lobby. He walks around to find out what's going on....

:KW
"What?! I agreed to Buehrle, Garcia, and Konerko for Jason Giambi? That damn Cashman got me drunk on purpose!"

:D:

tadscout
12-11-2004, 04:36 PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary dump type of trade that looks awful for us, but allows us to sign Clement. I think the next 24 hours are going to be very, very interesting. Hell, it's Saturday night, all of the GM's are bound to hit the bar and make some fantasy trades...err, I mean real trades. :D:
I have the stamache flu and very anxious to see what happens with the trades!!! What a great combo!!! Uh-oh... bathroom run!!!

GiveMeSox
12-11-2004, 04:39 PM
Great. I love the white sox philosophy of acquiring talent, one step forward and two steps back! If the white sox trade 2 guys on the roster (PK and JG) for Javier Vazquez there'll be even more holes on the team! Although what OG said it sounds if the sox were to get another SP it wouldn't involve trading garland. I do like the idea of retaining JG because if the sox were to acquire JV in a trade involving JG, the sox would still have that huge hole at the 5th spot. I find it interesting that they plan to FILL THE HOLES by trading and thus creating even MORE HOLES!!! I hate to be so pessimistic about the white sox, but this philosophy will never get the white sox anything better than 2nd place in the AL Comedy Central!
This is exactly what i have been saying all along. This trade idea for vazquez is stupid. We take 2 steps back for hardley taking 1 step foward. I even called in to Bruce Levine to mention this on the air. He agreed. Any trade for pitching we get should not include anyone on the current everyday roster, especially not 2 players. I would be hard pressed to trade Paulie for this. Paulie is an all-star at the cell and his defense is vastly underrated. Playing Gload at 1st would creat a huge hole on defense. And its not like the coaches have been preparing for this practicing with him at the postion. Unless we trade Paulie can replace him with a Shea Hillenbrand i would much rather prefer to trade our our 7 ERA pospects in Grilli and Munoz to try and get another SP.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-11-2004, 04:44 PM
"Clement is out of the White Sox price range" - says George Oftman, just now.

He's expected to get $6-$8 mill per. Angels are persuing Clement aggressively.

FightingBillini
12-11-2004, 04:54 PM
This is exactly what i have been saying all along. This trade idea for vazquez is stupid. We take 2 steps back for hardley taking 1 step foward. I even called in to Bruce Levine to mention this on the air. He agreed. Any trade for pitching we get should not include anyone on the current everyday roster, especially not 2 players. I would be hard pressed to trade Paulie for this. Paulie is an all-star at the cell and his defense is vastly underrated. Playing Gload at 1st would creat a huge hole on defense. And its not like the coaches have been preparing for this practicing with him at the postion. Unless we trade Paulie can replace him with a Shea Hillenbrand i would much rather prefer to trade our our 7 ERA pospects in Grilli and Munoz to try and get another SP.OK, for the last time, Ross Gload is a great defensive first baseman. He is far superior to Konerko in the field. You can say that he doesnt hit 41 homeruns in a season, but you cant say he is a defesive hole. The horrible errors he made were in the outfield, becuase he had never played it until he got called up. Much like Carlos Lee. He was a third baseman, and he was called up to play left. He was HORRIBLE in the beginning. Dont judge Gload's defense because he cant play right field.

nitetrain8601
12-11-2004, 05:07 PM
OK, for the last time, Ross Gload is a great defensive first baseman. He is far superior to Konerko in the field. You can say that he doesnt hit 41 homeruns in a season, but you cant say he is a defesive hole. The horrible errors he made were in the outfield, becuase he had never played it until he got called up. Much like Carlos Lee. He was a third baseman, and he was called up to play left. He was HORRIBLE in the beginning. Dont judge Gload's defense because he cant play right field.
Thank you. I agree strongly with this. I'm no fan of Gload, but you got it right.

JUribe1989
12-11-2004, 05:14 PM
I'm a fan of Gload and I really believe that he can hit at least .275-.280 if he plays a whole season and he could be a gold-glove type first baseman.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-11-2004, 05:39 PM
OK, for the last time, Ross Gload is a great defensive first baseman. He is far superior to Konerko in the field. You can say that he doesnt hit 41 homeruns in a season, but you cant say he is a defesive hole
I can also say Konerko is GREAT on the field. How many errors has he prevented with his amazing scoops, jumps, jumps and tags, etc.?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Paul Konerko is the most underrated player in baseball.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 05:48 PM
I agree. He is the most overpaid ballplayer in baseball.
:cool:

Deadguy
12-11-2004, 05:59 PM
I can also say Konerko is GREAT on the field. How many errors has he prevented with his amazing scoops, jumps, jumps and tags, etc.?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Paul Konerko is the most underrated player in baseball.http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2273&stc=1

Jerome
12-11-2004, 06:02 PM
I'm a fan of Gload and I really believe that he can hit at least .275-.280 if he plays a whole season and he could be a gold-glove type first baseman.

We would need a little better power numbers from first base. I would love for him to be given more innings next year. But defense at first is far, far less important than offense. How many games did we lose last year because of Konerko's bad defense?

And when you say gold glove, realize that a gold glove first baseman is not really a must-have part to a WS team. Just ask JT Snow. Or John Olerud. Or Doug Mintenaziwitks. Did the addition of Doug Mintkiewiz really have a lot to do with the WS? Could they have won it without him? Yes.

I am not saying defense doesn't matter. But at first base, offense is much, much more important.

ilsox7
12-11-2004, 06:07 PM
I can also say Konerko is GREAT on the field. How many errors has he prevented with his amazing scoops, jumps, jumps and tags, etc.?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Paul Konerko is the most underrated player in baseball.
No way. I love PK as much as the next guy, but last year was his first "Great" year and even then he was HORRIBLE on the road. And he is not GREAT on the field. He doesn't hurt us, but he isn't a Gold Golver.

LauraJ14
12-11-2004, 07:19 PM
I'm a fan of Gload and I really believe that he can hit at least .275-.280 if he plays a whole season and he could be a gold-glove type first baseman.

Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.

OEO Magglio
12-11-2004, 07:24 PM
We would need a little better power numbers from first base. I would love for him to be given more innings next year. But defense at first is far, far less important than offense. How many games did we lose last year because of Konerko's bad defense?

And when you say gold glove, realize that a gold glove first baseman is not really a must-have part to a WS team. Just ask JT Snow. Or John Olerud. Or Doug Mintenaziwitks. Did the addition of Doug Mintkiewiz really have a lot to do with the WS? Could they have won it without him? Yes.

I am not saying defense doesn't matter. But at first base, offense is much, much more important.
We still have enough power in this lineup to win without pauly. Who cares if first base is supposed to be a offensive power position. We have a shortstop that will probably hit 20 plus homers and centerfielder that will hit 20 plus homers also. Gload can be a very solid regular and is more then adequate especially if we get our starting pitcher.

OEO Magglio
12-11-2004, 07:24 PM
Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.
Liefer and Ross are almost completely different players.

SoxxoS
12-11-2004, 07:29 PM
Liefer and Ross are almost completely different players.
Doesn't matter...Laura's point is a valid one...you can't project what a guy will do just because of a small sample size...

tadscout
12-11-2004, 07:42 PM
Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.
HAHAHA I remember Liefer getting locked inside the bathroom during a baseball game here in Indy last year... they had to delay an inning, and when he got out finally the entire rest of the opposing team had toilet paper for him... LOL:D:

RKMeibalane
12-11-2004, 07:43 PM
This organization needs to quit crying poor.
:reinsy

"Maybe so, but it's ALL YOUR FAULT!"

Soxfest
12-11-2004, 07:46 PM
Ticket prices up again and JR is getting alot of money from Comcast deal time to quit acting like we are ( KC etc )

RKMeibalane
12-11-2004, 07:46 PM
I agree. He is the most overpaid ballplayer in baseball.
:cool:
I second that.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-11-2004, 07:51 PM
I second that.
(Regarding Konerko being most overpaid player in baseball)

You guys are absolutely right. Konerko making $8 mill is overpaid.

Sammy Sosa: $18 million
Jaret Wright: $7 million
Jason Giambi: $17 million

I could go on, but I forgot, you're in the Self-Abusing Sox Fans Club, no matter how good a player from your own team is, you'll put him down over and over again. Konerko = Underrated and now, Under-appreciated.

Jjav829
12-11-2004, 07:55 PM
Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.
Great point. I was in that group as well. I thought Liefer could put up numbers like Konerko or Lee. Oops!

I'd like to put up an argument against what you said, but I can't. You're right, we don't know what we might get from Gload next year. With Konerko we do. But we need pitching badly and I still think Lee or Konerko has to go.

santo=dorf
12-11-2004, 07:58 PM
(Regarding Konerko being most overpaid player in baseball)

You guys are absolutely right. Konerko making $8 mill is overpaid.

Sammy Sosa: $18 million
Jaret Wright: $7 million
Jason Giambi: $17 million

I could go on, but I forgot, you're in the Self-Abusing Sox Fans Club, no matter how good a player from your own team is, you'll put him down over and over again. Konerko = Underrated and now, Under-appreciated.
They don't like Paulie because he called out Frank during the 2002 All-Star break. :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 08:22 PM
(Regarding Konerko being most overpaid player in baseball)

You guys are absolutely right. Konerko making $8 mill is overpaid.

Sammy Sosa: $18 million
Jaret Wright: $7 million
Jason Giambi: $17 million

I could go on, but I forgot, you're in the Self-Abusing Sox Fans Club, no matter how good a player from your own team is, you'll put him down over and over again. Konerko = Underrated and now, Under-appreciated. I'm going to try real hard to feel hurt by your characterization.
:wink:

So how many of the juicers you listed above have hip dysplasia, too?

:gulp:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 08:25 PM
They don't like Paulie because he called out Frank during the 2002 All-Star break. :rolleyes: I don't like Paul because he has been here six years and still hasn't put together a full season... and only Cubs fans give their players "-ie" nicknames. What's your excuse?

Now about that hip dysplasia... what might the vet bill run?
:gulp:

Whitesoxtom
12-11-2004, 08:27 PM
Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.
Agreed, I hope we keep Paulie, he's a great player. Gload had a nice year, but I question him as an everyday player.

I wish we could expand the payroll to 80 million and sign Clement. What a difference 10 million dollars would make. We would be pretty much set.

SomebodyToldMe
12-11-2004, 08:31 PM
I don't like Paul because he has been here six years and still hasn't put together a full season... and only Cubs fans give their players "-ie" nicknames. What's your excuse?

Now about that hip dysplasia... what might the vet bill run?
:gulp:
I like Paulie a lot. He's starting to get a lot of national attention and becoming a name out there in the MLB world. He should have been an all-star and quite frankly I'm sick of everyone saying that we don't know what Konerko we're gonna get next year. He had only ONE EXTREMELY TERRIBLE YEAR! It's not like he's amazing one year, sucky the next two, great the one after those. He's done his job since being on the Sox and I want him to keep doing that job.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 08:36 PM
I like Paulie a lot. He's starting to get a lot of national attention and becoming a name out there in the MLB world. He should have been an all-star and quite frankly I'm sick of everyone saying that we don't know what Konerko we're gonna get next year. He had only ONE EXTREMELY TERRIBLE YEAR! It's not like he's amazing one year, sucky the next two, great the one after those. He's done his job since being on the Sox and I want him to keep doing that job. That's funny because I have a long memory. Konerko has *never* been a 3/4 hitter. In fact once Maggs and Thomas were lost for the season and Konerko was finally "promoted" to the 3/4 hole that you would expect a top-flight firstbasemen to be, the Sox went into an unbelievable tailspin and dropped from the race. We had *no* offense.

Konerko's bat isn't **** compared to either Maggs or Frank's. Deal with it.

santo=dorf
12-11-2004, 08:38 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=list/mlbmostoverpaid

Darren Dreifort (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5188) ($11,400,000)
Hideo Nomo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5375) ($9,000,000)
Shawn Green (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5179) ($16,666,667)
Todd Hundley (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4482) ($7,000,000)
Mike Hampton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4994) ($12,975,288)


are just some of the more overpaid players in 2004.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 08:40 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=list/mlbmostoverpaid

Darren Dreifort (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5188) ($11,400,000)
Hideo Nomo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5375) ($9,000,000)
Shawn Green (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5179) ($16,666,667)
Todd Hundley (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4482) ($7,000,000)
Mike Hampton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4994) ($12,975,288)


are just some of the more overpaid players in 2004.
I think we should hold on to Paul Konerko until he needs a walker. That ought to be spring training, 2007.
:gulp:

santo=dorf
12-11-2004, 08:44 PM
I don't like Paul because he has been here six years and still hasn't put together a full season... and only Cubs fans give their players "-ie" nicknames. What's your excuse?

Now about that hip dysplasia... what might the vet bill run?
:gulp:I like Konerko, but I don't want him on the Sox for 2005. And the reason why I call him "Paulie" over "Koney" or "Kone-head" is because I have heard Hawk Harrelson refer to him by that name about 108,470,138,750 times over the past 6 years. Haven't you ever been to a Sox game when Konerko is up in a big spot, or he comes up big, and everyone starts chanting "PAUL-LEEE?"
Of course, only Cubs fans would chant something like that. :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 08:50 PM
I like Konerko, but I don't want him on the Sox for 2005. And the reason why I call him "Paulie" over "Koney" or "Kone-head" is because I have heard Hawk Harrelson refer to him by that name about 108,470,138,750 times over the past 6 years.
Oh, well Hawk says it so it must be okay. :rolleyes:

Sycophants of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your independent train of thought!

:gulp:

santo=dorf
12-11-2004, 08:54 PM
Oh, well Hawk says it so it must be okay. :rolleyes:

Sycophants of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your independent train of thought!

:gulp:LOL!!

So it's not "okay" to call him that? :?: I'm just used to hearing being called that because I listen to Hawk when I watch Sox games.


What about the other 20,000 fans who chant "PAUL-LEEE, PAUL-LEEE?"

I guess they're just a bunch of Cubs fans who think it's okay to call him "Paulie." :rolleyes:

SomebodyToldMe
12-11-2004, 08:56 PM
Konerko's bat isn't **** compared to either Maggs or Frank's. Deal with it.
Did I say it was? Let's not read words that we want to think are there.

MrRoboto83
12-11-2004, 09:01 PM
Please, I heard this all before with Jeff Liefer, he plays part time in 2001 and hits 15 homers which if he played a whole season would project to 40. Well where the heck is Liefer now? Signing minor league deals every year. No thanks to Gload everyday, I want proven Paul Konerko at 1st base next season.
Konerko is hardly a proven 1st baseman, can't we for get the first half of the 2003 season?

Tragg
12-11-2004, 09:05 PM
We need a lead-off hitter and/or a starting pitcher more than we need Konerko.

If our big signee is Dye, who is, at his core, another Everett, then I think the suspicions that many have that the Sox will try, yet again, to field a 83 win team, gain credence. None of our real needs are addressed (pitching, lead-off, up the middle defense) and instead, another mediocre veteran is added to this ballclub.

I suspected that KW's comments saying he intended to improve OBP rang hollow; with our failure to seriously pursue Kendall (who was had for a song) and signing an anti-OBP player like Dye, those suspicions are furthered.

We shall see what he can do in trades to address our needs.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 09:17 PM
LOL!!

So it's not "okay" to call him that? :?: I'm just used to hearing being called that because I listen to Hawk when I watch Sox games.
I'll get my Sox Fans' news of the world from a more credible source than Hawk Harrelson, thank you very much.

To paraphrase your wise mother, "If 20,000 Sox Fans jumped off a cliff sounding just like Cubs fans yelling 'Paul-ie, Paul-ie, Paul-ie,' would you do it, too?"

Not me.
:gulp:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-11-2004, 09:21 PM
Did I say it was? Let's not read words that we want to think are there.
Nope. Konerko is just expendable, the most obvious spare part to trade away for something of value.

Besides, his value will never be higher. We *know* he'll have another swoon of at least 4 weeks next season just like every other season, maybe longer. His hip dysplasia can only cut into his future value even further and by 2007 it will be impossible to hide the walker he uses to "run" to first base.

Ditch him while the ditching is good.

:bandance:

SoxxoS
12-11-2004, 09:31 PM
I like Konerko and all, but I got to agree with PHG here...

With this team, you got to buy low, sell high. I would say 95% of this board would of traded Konerko straight up for Todd Hundley after that debacle known as the 2003 season. Nobody wanted him here. Now, he is off a great year, no doubt. But he is slow, could have a hip problem, and HIS VALUE HAS NEVER BEEN HIGHER. If you aren't the Yanks or BoSox, it makes a lot of sense to sell high and fill numerous holes. 1B is probably the easist position to fill on the diamond. He makes a lot of money. We have a lot of other holes that need fixing. You can get good players or a very good player for Konerko. That is why I think it's almost a no-brainer to trade him...as long as you get some good value (especially since Frank isn't going to be ready for the first month).

pearso66
12-11-2004, 11:27 PM
I didn't see this mentioned, but suppose we trade Konerko. We have Everett and Dye who can play the OF, why don't we stick Lee at 1st. He used to be a 3rd baseman, so I'm sure he can play 1st. The first part of the year, put gload there, and then when Frank comes back, we keep gload on the bench, everett and dye in left and right, and lee at 1st. We keep those 4 in the lineup. Now I know that people won't like it because lee wouldnt have played much at first, but I think it might be the best way to do it, Unless of course Gload is tearing it up, then you just sit one of Everett or Dye

Mohoney
12-11-2004, 11:53 PM
I'll get my Sox Fans' news of the world from a more credible source than Hawk Harrelson, thank you very much.:hawk

"Jon Garland is going to win 18 ball games."

Gosox1917
12-12-2004, 12:52 AM
We need another starting pitcher and if that means trading Paul, a great player and other teams wouldn't be so interested in him if he wasn't, then let's trade him. Because he had such a good season last year we can get some pretty good talent for him. IMO, the Sox, Yanks, D'backs deal makes the most sense to me IF we only trade Konerko and keep Garland. Moving Garland leaves us with a hole in the 5 spot. So, lets trade Konerko and Grilli(if he's such a competetor). Maybe move Lee and Grilli considering we've got Dye, Everett, and Rowand. Just tossin some ideas around.

MRKARNO
12-12-2004, 12:59 AM
Nope. Konerko is just expendable, the most obvious spare part to trade away for something of value.

Besides, his value will never be higher. We *know* he'll have another swoon of at least 4 weeks next season just like every other season, maybe longer. His hip dysplasia can only cut into his future value even further and by 2007 it will be impossible to hide the walker he uses to "run" to first base.

Ditch him while the ditching is good.

:bandance:
Excellent assesment of Konehead's situation. Sell high folks! I cant see Konerko being any more valuable than he is now. Maybe next year you'd get laughed outta town if you suggested Vazquez AND cash for Konerko. I know at Vazquez's worst he is still a Jon Garland and at his best he's top 5 in the league. Konerko at his best is not an elite 1B because of his mediocre OBP and at his worst is unusable.

StillMissOzzie
12-12-2004, 02:00 AM
... and only Cubs fans give their players "-ie" nicknames.

:gulp:
Yo, PHG - Nellie Fox? Richie Zisk? Ozzie Guillen?

I think you're reaching this time.

SMO
:gulp:

Jabroni
12-12-2004, 05:18 AM
White Sox | Room For Payroll Wiggle If Necessary - from www.KFFL.com (http://www.kffl.com/)
Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:54:49 -0800

According to The Chicago Tribune's Bob Foltman, the Chicago White Sox are approaching their $72 million budget for next season, but White Sox general manager Kenny Williams did not rule out owner Jerry Reinsdorf raising the payroll if the situation were right. "The one thing I know about Reinsdorf is he wants to win," Williams said. "If there is something very attractive to us to a degree that it obviously makes sense to us, I know that if I take it to him, he will consider it.":rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-12-2004, 10:07 AM
Yo, PHG - Nellie Fox? Richie Zisk? Ozzie Guillen?

I only call them Nelson, Richard, and Oswaldo.

:wink:

FarWestChicago
12-12-2004, 12:57 PM
and only Cubs fans give their players "-ie" nicknames.A's fans share the affliction. They have one for every gut on the team. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif

idseer
12-12-2004, 01:12 PM
Excellent assesment of Konehead's situation. Sell high folks! I cant see Konerko being any more valuable than he is now. Maybe next year you'd get laughed outta town if you suggested Vazquez AND cash for Konerko. I know at Vazquez's worst he is still a Jon Garland and at his best he's top 5 in the league. Konerko at his best is not an elite 1B because of his mediocre OBP and at his worst is unusable.

all you have EVER done is try to show paul in the worst light and vazquez in the best. it really makes no difference what you say. paul had a monster season last year and vazquez didn't ... ON THE YANKEES! paul has had a substantially better career than vazquez. paul is an everyday player. remove paul and there's a gaping hole at first base (regardless what all the "1st basemen are a dime a dozen" clowns think). paul keeps getting better ... vazquez shows no such sign.

ridiculous idea to suggest vazquez would be more valuable to the sox than paul.

ridiculous!

santo=dorf
12-12-2004, 01:59 PM
Yo, PHG - Nellie Fox? Richie Zisk? Ozzie Guillen?

I think you're reaching this time.

SMO
:gulp:
:weewillie

"Don't call me William or Bill."

santo=dorf
12-12-2004, 02:15 PM
:rolleyes:
Could it be........

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/AACW027.jpg

:supernana:

nitetrain8601
12-12-2004, 02:22 PM
LOL, It could...hopefully.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-12-2004, 02:42 PM
A few points I wanted to point out...

1) This whole debate over what nickname Paul Konerko should get, whether it should be Paulie or Koney or Kone-head, how about Komerica or Ice Cream Kone? How about calling him Paul Konerko? Chris Berman is probably to blame for this stupid nickname craze. If it's not original like Sugar Ray or Chester the Molester (HAHA, don't reply, quote this, and say something stupid, I'm joking), just stop trying to make up things. If you guys really want a cool nickname, if you use spell check here on WSI's boards, Konerko gets replaced with Kongo. I can hear it now, OOO-EEE-OOO, KOONNNN-GOOOO! And quit the Cubs fans comparison.

2) KW also made mention that although they won't sign another FA, it doesn't mean that the Sox payroll is capped off. He wants to save some room for possible pickups during the season (through trades and what not).

3) I wanted to say something else but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember later and I'll post it.

These officials in the Bears game are just horrid.

tadscout
12-12-2004, 04:09 PM
Could it be........

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/AACW027.jpg

:supernana:

I sure dang hope soo... and how on earth do you guys make pictures like that???

santo=dorf
12-12-2004, 04:33 PM
I sure dang hope soo... and how on earth do you guys make pictures like that???
http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHOTOFILE/AADB024.jpg + http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHOTOFILE/AACW027.jpg

tadscout
12-12-2004, 04:55 PM
still dunno how you do it...:tongue: lol

Hangar18
12-12-2004, 05:39 PM
Great. I love the white sox philosophy of acquiring talent, one step forward and two steps back! If the white sox trade 2 guys on the roster (PK and JG) for Javier Vazquez there'll be even more holes on the team! Although what OG said it sounds if the sox were to get another SP it wouldn't involve trading garland. I do like the idea of retaining JG because if the sox were to acquire JV in a trade involving JG, the sox would still have that huge hole at the 5th spot. I find it interesting that they plan to FILL THE HOLES by trading and thus creating even MORE HOLES!!! I hate to be so pessimistic about the white sox, but this philosophy will never get the white sox anything better than 2nd place in the AL Comedy Central!
Robbing Peter to Pay Paul (konerko), no pun intended. This team never learns. In order to get better, they CREATE even more holes. No wonder
this team hasnt been to a World Series since 1959. An infield of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Gload Doesnt Say World Series to me. It says CHEAP.

:reinsy "Yes, but Hangar, Look at the Money Were Saving!"

munchman33
12-12-2004, 07:13 PM
Robbing Peter to Pay Paul (konerko), no pun intended. This team never learns. In order to get better, they CREATE even more holes. No wonder
this team hasnt been to a World Series since 1959. An infield of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Gload Doesnt Say World Series to me. It says CHEAP.

:reinsy "Yes, but Hangar, Look at the Money Were Saving!"
Let's face it Hangar. Kenny has to work under his budget. There's nothing we or he can do about it. This team is going to have holes. Most teams do. Many World Series teams have. Really, its where you have your holes. I'd much rather not have holes in the rotation.

CWSGuy406
12-12-2004, 07:28 PM
(Regarding Konerko being most overpaid player in baseball)

You guys are absolutely right. Konerko making $8 mill is overpaid.

Sammy Sosa: $18 million
Jaret Wright: $7 million
Jason Giambi: $17 million

I could go on, but I forgot, you're in the Self-Abusing Sox Fans Club, no matter how good a player from your own team is, you'll put him down over and over again. Konerko = Underrated and now, Under-appreciated.
Underrated?

I guess his .239 BA, .301 OBP, and .708 OPS away from US Cell-Coors Field is underrated too, huh?

CWSGuy406
12-12-2004, 07:43 PM
all you have EVER done is try to show paul in the worst light and vazquez in the best. it really makes no difference what you say. paul had a monster season last year and vazquez didn't ... ON THE YANKEES! paul has had a substantially better career than vazquez. paul is an everyday player. remove paul and there's a gaping hole at first base (regardless what all the "1st basemen are a dime a dozen" clowns think). paul keeps getting better ... vazquez shows no such sign.

ridiculous idea to suggest vazquez would be more valuable to the sox than paul.

ridiculous!
Hmm, maybe I don't know what I'm reading, but I see four good years from Vazquez, not just one. From 2000-2003, Vazquez highest ERA was 4.05, and during that time, he's had K/9IP of 8.10, 8.37, 7, and 9.40. Plus, he's an absolute workhorse -- he's hit 230 IP twice in his career, and the lowest amount of IP during '00-'03 was 217. Even last year, in a piss poor second half (as a result of Mel Stoddlemyer, and absolutely terrible pitching coach, as well as a mishap in his delivery), he pitched 198 innings, as well as one hell of a first half (3.56 ERA, 118 IP in 18 games).

Don't even TRY telling me that Konerko is better than Vazquez, because that's totally not true. Vazquez + Gload is so much, much, much >>>>>> than Konerko + Grilli, which is, essentially what we're getting unless we unload Konerko. Without US Cellular, Konerko would be a middle of the pack firstbaseman.