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View Full Version : Blue Jays interested in Lee/Konerko?


Jjav829
12-11-2004, 10:12 AM
This article talks about the Blue Jays watching the Sox activity, and mentions that the Jays have interest in Lee and Konerko. I'm not sure what we'd get in return from them. This article suggets that the Sox could move Lee or Konerko in order to make a free agent splash.

Ricciardi was also scheduled to meet late last night with Pat Rooney, Koskie's agent, and he and his lieutenants are closely monitoring the activities of the Chicago White Sox, with an eye toward acquiring left fielder and designated hitter Carlos Lee, who also played first base.

The White Sox's general manager, Kenny Williams, needs to regain some of the sports pages from the Chicago Cubs, and Lee or first baseman Paul Konerko could be dealt as he attempts to clear the decks for a significant free-agent acquisition to remake a team that has already lost free agent Magglio Ordonez.

Link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20041211/BASEBALL11/TPSports/Baseball)

Navaro's Talent
12-11-2004, 10:30 AM
This is just a guess, but maybe the Sox are interested in Roy Halladay? I have no clue how much he makes a year nor how many more seasons he's signed for. I'm just throwing the name out there. He's coming off a bad season (I think injuries had something to do with it), but I think he could bounce back. Then again, I could be entirely wrong about who the Sox might be intereseted in here.

hose
12-11-2004, 10:34 AM
I didn't figure on the Toronto organization willing to deal with KW after getting burned with Mike Sirotka.

MRKARNO
12-11-2004, 10:37 AM
Players on the roster that I'd want to have:

Halladay
Lilly
Hudson

and that's about it. I like Wells, but there's no place for him on our team. It's obvious why we'd want Halladay. Hudson would be good, but I can only see him coming over if it were Hudson and a top prospect or mediocre pitcher and I wouldnt like that deal. Lilly is a name you dont hear a lot about, but he's a solid pitcher. I would obviously prefer Hudson/Mulder/Vazquez over him, but if it were our last choice, I wouldnt be heartbroken. He's not an ace, but he's a very good pitcher. He pitched a 13 K 3 hit shutout against the Red Sox last year. His problem is that he doesnt always make it out of the 6th inning, but when he does, he's usually pretty good. He's cheap too, but only signed through 2005 (3 million next year) so we could afford Polanco if we did it quickly. I would much rather Hudson/Mulder/Vazquez, but this is an interesting option (Halladay/Lilly) if those arent feasible.

Brian26
12-11-2004, 11:15 AM
What about the Vernon Wells kid?

MRKARNO
12-11-2004, 11:18 AM
What about the Vernon Wells kid?
I like him a ton, but he doesnt really fill a need for us and we'd probably have to do another trade, but maybe we could then trade Aaron Rowand if we got him. I was just thinking that our needs are 2b/SS/C/Sp and those are the only three that would fit in there. We have about 2-3 OFs too many as it is.

California Sox
12-11-2004, 11:47 AM
I didn't figure on the Toronto organization willing to deal with KW after getting burned with Mike Sirotka.
Different GM. That being said, the article's premise is that we'd trade them Konerko or Lee for prospects and then turn around and sign a big free agent. Seems unlikely.

fquaye149
12-11-2004, 11:48 AM
catolanatto? (sp.?)

SEALgep
12-11-2004, 11:48 AM
I like him a ton, but he doesnt really fill a need for us and we'd probably have to do another trade, but maybe we could then trade Aaron Rowand if we got him. I was just thinking that our needs are 2b/SS/C/Sp and those are the only three that would fit in there. We have about 2-3 OFs too many as it is.Rowand? NO!!!:angry: I've taken too much heat defending him to give up on him now.:D:

SEALgep
12-11-2004, 11:53 AM
Different GM. That being said, the article's premise is that we'd trade them Konerko or Lee for prospects and then turn around and sign a big free agent. Seems unlikely.How about Alex Rios, and see if the money saved can somehow allow us to sign Clement? I like it, but not sure if it's feasible. Another move may need to be made, but Toronto is probably going to be hesistant to give up this guy.

tanko
12-11-2004, 12:02 PM
Rios is a good prospect but I can't see the Jays parting with him.

OEO Magglio
12-11-2004, 12:17 PM
The 3 players karno said are the 3 I would also be interested in. I think O dog is finally ready to become a leadoff hitter and he's also a whiz at 2nd base. His obp was only .341 last year, however his on base percentage has been rising a lot since he first game into the league, he's become more and more patient and by next year I would think his obp would break the .350 mark with ease. Also the guy can run a bit. He only had 7 steals last year but that's more the philosiphy of the jays not to run. In the minors he was always a good base stealer. I doubt the jays would part with Roy but if they would I'd be absolutely thrilled. If not I wonder if a package of Lilly and Hudson could be had for Pauly and others. Could get interesting with Toronto.......

Win1ForMe
12-11-2004, 12:39 PM
After reading the entire article, I got the impression that we would be getting Hinske, Batista, and a prospect back in the trade. Obviouly that wouldn't be such a great deal. Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

Lee, a 28-year-old right-handed hitter, batted .305, with 31 homers and 99 runs batted in, and had an on-base percentage of .366. He interests the Blue Jays, even though he will make $8-million next season (as will Konerko, who has his own supporters in the Blue Jays' front office) and even though adding him and Koskie means the Blue Jays would move either Eric Hinske or Miguel Batista, or both, perhaps throwing a prospect such as Gabe Gross in as a sweetener.

Hinske will get a raise to $3-million next season, while Batista will earn $4.75-million.

SoxxoS
12-11-2004, 12:44 PM
I would be in favor of sending Konerko to the Blue Jays for Hinske...He can play third, first or DH. Batista should have been signed last season as a FA. I thought that was a no brainer.

tanko
12-11-2004, 12:57 PM
I just saw a report on Canadian T.V. the reporter (who's name I dont' know but I will post when it's on again) said that the Jays are trying replace Delgado with a package of Batista and Hinske.He said he thought they were zeroing in on the White Sox for Lee and or Konerko and he said because of Kenny Williams agressive nature he thought something between the White Sox and Jays could get done soon.I'll update if I hear more.Hinske to White sox makes no sence as far as I'm concerned.

Win1ForMe
12-11-2004, 12:59 PM
I would be in favor of sending Konerko to the Blue Jays for Hinske...He can play third, first or DH. Batista should have been signed last season as a FA. I thought that was a no brainer.:?: You sure about that? Compare Crede and Hinske, very similar, except one makes $3M. Batista fell apart in the 2nd half last year and was moved to the bullpen. No way this trade happens.

A. Cavatica
12-11-2004, 12:59 PM
Is Hinske's upside really that much higher than Crede's? Maybe a change of scenery would help both players.

The guy I want is Catalanotto, to lead off. Lee for Catalanotto and prospects would work for me.

Deadguy
12-11-2004, 01:01 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hinsker01.shtml

Odd who the most similar batter is across the line.....

mdep524
12-11-2004, 01:23 PM
Ick. None of this stuff looks all that great to me. I would focus on Tim Hudson or Javy Vazquez over a package of several mediocre players from Toronto. Stay away Kenny!

Dolanski
12-11-2004, 01:32 PM
Is Hinske's upside really that much higher than Crede's? Maybe a change of scenery would help both players.

The guy I want is Catalanotto, to lead off. Lee for Catalanotto and prospects would work for me.
Yes, and apparently you want to see this team squander all its talent and finish DEAD LAST. The Cat sucks. Period. He is a "grinder" no doubt, but he is a platoon LF or 4th OF at best. Bad idea.

The Sox don't need another OF, they don't need another 3b. They need one more starter. Period. If they trade Konerko or Lee to do so, they have to get someone to replace their offense as, with the exit of Maggs, the offense falls more on their shoulders. A speed and defense team still needs some pop, and who is going to provide it? Frank and his bad foot? Dye? Washed up Carl Everett? Please fill me in on the logic of a deal here that doesn't include some decent pitching...(Miguel Bautista is NOT decent pitching)

A. Cavatica
12-11-2004, 01:35 PM
They need one more starter. Period.
I'm assuming you meant to put this in teal. Because if you didn't, you clearly are unable to evaluate their talent level.

pearso66
12-11-2004, 01:37 PM
I'm assuming you meant to put this in teal. Because if you didn't, you clearly are unable to evaluate their talent level.

I think getting 1 more starter shoudl be our #1 priority. If we only get 1 more starter i could be happy. But if we get another 2nd baseman, or another C and no pitcher, i would not be happy

SoxxoS
12-11-2004, 01:38 PM
:?: You sure about that? Compare Crede and Hinske, very similar, except one makes $3M. Batista fell apart in the 2nd half last year and was moved to the bullpen. No way this trade happens.
Sorry, I should of clarified...I definitely don't want to send Konerko for Hinske straight up. But I would be in favor of getting Hinske in a package deal...I think a change of scenery would help him, as well as Crede. My original post sounded stupid...

Dolanski
12-11-2004, 02:54 PM
I'm assuming you meant to put this in teal. Because if you didn't, you clearly are unable to evaluate their talent level.
Yes, and Frank Catalanatto is going to be the solutions to those talent problems. You actually want this guy? You actually believe that he is going to be able to replace Carlos Lee's offense? Are you smoking something?

The only deal the White Sox are going to and should make is for pitching.

A. Cavatica
12-11-2004, 04:30 PM
You actually want this guy? You actually believe that he is going to be able to replace Carlos Lee's offense?
Basically, yeah. .815 career OPS versus Lee's .828 -- and he has not been lucky enough to hit at the Cell for his whole career. Catalanotto's on-base percentage is higher (.358, with a career high of .391 versus .340./.366 for Lee) and our biggest problem has been getting guys on base. He's a lefthanded bat. He's a lot cheaper. And I stipulated that we'd be getting prospects back in the deal.

Sure, I'd rather deal Lee for a starter, but Toronto's not going to give up anyone useful. If we trade with Toronto, the guy to ask for is Catalanotto.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-11-2004, 05:01 PM
Roy Halladay is off limits, they just re-signed him last offseason.

What I'm hearing is that if worst comes to worst, KW is going to try and get Miguel Batista for Konerko or Lee. This would make a lot of sense considering the Blue Jays are after Matt Clement and if they are able to sign him, they would be less reluctant to deal Miguel.

This would be a good debate; would you rather trade Konerko or Lee for Batista and possible prospects or trade Konerko and Garland for Vazquez?

MRKARNO
12-11-2004, 05:22 PM
If the report is true, KW should laugh off this deal and move on. Worst comes to worst, we move Lee or Konerko in the middle of the year. Hinske and Batista are NOT worth either Lee or Konerko. We'd just be draining our talent in such a deal. If KW does this deal, I refuse to defend him. Lilly, Halladay, Rios, Wells, Hudson or move on to another team. End of story.

Jabroni
12-11-2004, 05:28 PM
Eric Hinske and Miguel Batista? Two ex-Cubs? No thank you. And not just because they are both ex-Cubs but because they just aren't that good. Konerko and Lee are worth way more than those two.

chisoxmike
12-11-2004, 05:42 PM
No No No No No No No No No No!!!

Dolanski
12-12-2004, 11:58 AM
Basically, yeah. .815 career OPS versus Lee's .828 -- and he has not been lucky enough to hit at the Cell for his whole career. Catalanotto's on-base percentage is higher (.358, with a career high of .391 versus .340./.366 for Lee) and our biggest problem has been getting guys on base. He's a lefthanded bat. He's a lot cheaper. And I stipulated that we'd be getting prospects back in the deal.

Sure, I'd rather deal Lee for a starter, but Toronto's not going to give up anyone useful. If we trade with Toronto, the guy to ask for is Catalanotto.
OPS doesn't exactly tell the whole story here. Let's look at some more stats here:

Frank Catalanatto is 30, so it can be assumed that what we are seeing out of him is the best of his career.

His best season was two years ago and here are the numbers:

83 R, 13 HR, 59 RBI, .299 BA, .351 OBP, .472 SLG

He has never played more than 133 games in a season, and most of his numbers are around or lower than the ones here. Injury plagued or not, he hasn't driven in more than 60 runs in a season. He's a leadoff hitter or whatever, but he hasn't stolen more than 15 bases in a season.

I am in total awe of his awesome talent, sign this guy up right now.

Carlos Lee is 28, so just entering his prime, a bit younger than Frank, but the numbers are significantly better.

His best season was also 2003 but his numbers are consistently in this area. Also, he has played in 140 + games throughout his career.

100R, 31 HR, 113 RBI, .291 BA, .331 OBP, .499 SLG

Let's replace 30 HR 120 RBI kinda guy with 15 HR 60 RBI guy? So he's a leadoff hitter you say? He still scored only 80 runs in his best year. The Cat is a serviceable major leaguer, certainly a starter on some teams, but in no way shape or form does he come even close to Carlos in numbers, talent or potential. I am pretty positive that Kenny has more sense than to think something like this would work.

Tragg
12-12-2004, 01:11 PM
Let's replace 30 HR 120 RBI kinda guy with 15 HR 60 RBI guy? So he's a leadoff hitter you say? He still scored only 80 runs in his best year. The Cat is a serviceable major leaguer, certainly a starter on some teams, but in no way shape or form does he come even close to Carlos in numbers, talent or potential. I am pretty positive that Kenny has more sense than to think something like this would work.
Well, re the 80 runs, was he leading off for Toronto? His OBP is good, not great, and not what you really want in a lead-off hitter, although he's much better than anything we have OBP wise (except for Frank).
I would be okay with the trade if we got more than just Cat; like a 2nd baseman too? Do they have one?:cool:

A. Cavatica
12-12-2004, 10:42 PM
His best season was two years ago and here are the numbers:

83 R, 13 HR, 59 RBI, .299 BA, .351 OBP, .472 SLG

Actually, his best season was 2001:

77 R, 11 HR, 54 RBI, .330 BA, .391 OBP, .490 SLG

I'll concede the point about injuries. When he is healthy, he's a very good player. These were the two seasons when he had the most at-bats, and his OBP was .370, with some pop.

We are desperate for that kind of production out of the leadoff spot, and we have others who can hit 2-3-4-5.

If he's not healthy, he still doesn't "suck", but I agree that you don't make the trade. (Even though you're getting a prospect back and freeing salary that could be applied elsewhere, you're losing too much production from the lineup.)