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View Full Version : My Thoughts on the Mágglio Matter (and it's a long one)


Viva Magglio
12-11-2004, 12:10 AM
I know there are several threads ongoing regarding this subject on this board and the Parking Lot. Yet, since I am one of the first members of White Sox Interactive to incorporate Mágglio Ordóńez's name into my handle, which was originally Maggs30 and now Viva Magglio, I want to post my exclusive series of thoughts on what has been going on between Ordóńez and the baseball team we all love, its leadership and leadership-inspired shortcomings notwithstanding.

It will not be long before I request that WSI's powers that be change my handle to "Viva Medias Blancas." Because I am commonly known as "Viva" in these parts, I want to preserve that part of my handle and make my new desired handle consistent with the Spanish language of which Viva (which means "Long live") is derived. Medias Blancas is White Sox in Spanish.

That last paragraph is an obvious sign to you my loyalty to the Chicago White Sox supersedes the admiration I had (past tense, hmmm) for Mágglio Ordóńez. I have been a White Sox fan before Mágglio Ordóńez came to the White Sox organization on May 18, 1991, and I'll continue to be a White Sox fan long after Mágglio Ordóńez officially joins another organization.

I resigned myself to this fate very well long before this moment, probably years ago knowing our inept ownership would eventually lose him one way or the other. Yet, I am not going to take Mágglio's side against our White Sox family. My thought was that the front office's modus operandi should be "what Mágglio wants Mágglio gets." However, during this past year, I have found myself increasingly alienated by the Ordóńez camp.

Sure, there is at least some blame that should be shared by Jerry Reinsdorf, Ken Williams, and the organization. I have long been critical of Reinsdorf's style of management, his misguided philosophy, and subsequent actions inspired by that misguided philosophy. It has been my desire to see the White Sox run by someone who wants to win, dammit! If I could trade Jerry Reinsdorf to the New York Yankees for George Steinbrenner, I'd make that trade for the Boss (Steinbrenner's term in the NY tabolids) in a New York minute. Sure, the Boss is the Boss, but Steinbrenner shares our strong desire to WIN!

This whole issue of the knee condition is a puzzle. It has become a case of "He said, she said" between the Ordóńez and front office camps. It has been reported that the White Sox team doctor went directly to Ordóńez and recommended the examination in Vienna. Personally, I think this physician should be replaced for leaving the front office out of the loop as has been alleged.

And then there is the matter of the White Sox' contract proposals. Again, it seems to be a case of "He said, she said." However, despite my ongoing distrust of the organization, I am inclined to side with the organizaiton on this matter. I believe that the organization, from Reinsdorf on down, actually had the sense to believe that keeping Ordóńez was the right thing to do. In the Friday papers, Ordóńez claimed that the White Sox would basically only offer a deferred contract over the course of 20 years. Yet, when I was driving home from work late this afternoon, I heard a report that Ken Williams told WSCR baseball reporter George Ofman that several deals were offered. These included a $65M deal non-deferred, if I heard correctly.

While I have serious thoughts about Ken Williams as a general manager, I have always taken KW as a man of his word. And despite our misgivings with Williams, none of us would question his desire to making a winning ballclub for us. I would rather believe what he says than what some greedy simpleton who says what his greedy scumbag agent tells him to say. żComprende?

It was Mágglio Ordóńez's decision to hire Scott Boras as his agent that lost me for good. I never liked Boras. He is a greedy scumbag that turns his clients into greedy simpletons. I think that is what happened with Ordóńez. In fact, in the back of my mind, I wonder if Boras client Alex Rodríguez was an influence in this. Maybe it's complete nonsense, which it may very well be, but the fact that Rodríguez and Ordóńez work out together at the University of Miami during the offseason makes me theorize that Rodríguez put some ideas into Ordóńez's head. I have never held a high regard for Alex Rodriguez, either. And that's dating back to his days as a Seattle Mariner.

It is my opinion that Mágglio Ordóńez has become a treacherous greedy simpleton. As you know, I used to admire him greatly. In our ongoing lack of preference for the institution of the Chicago National League Ballclub, Inc., right fielder Maggs was the perfect saintly alternative to the Evil Empire's right fielder. While the local media continued to sing the praises of one Samuel Sosa and overlooked his evils, now coming to light in the current steriod scandal, Mágglio Ordóńez was virtually responsible for paying the property taxes on Sosa's shadow. On WSI, there have been numerous "#30 vs. #21" threads over the years, all expressing this angst in this eternal crosstown war against our North Side rivals. Alone, these threads were a perfect illustration of this.

As recently as two years ago, Joe Cowley wrote a story in the Daily Southtown about White Sox players who hated the Cubs' guts. I am sure many of you remember it well; even though I have no link to it now. The article focused on José Valentín who actively rooted against the Cubs while watching them on the White Sox clubhouse television set. Oh, what was one other name mentioned? Uh, Mágglio Ordóńez. Yes, our right fielder at that time was reported to have hated the Cubs because of Sammy Sosa, among other things.

Now, we read that Mágglio Ordóńez would like to join the Evil Empire!!! Well, that's about a one-eighty, I would say. While I believe the Cubs' inability to ditch Sosa (and his high salary and sterioid-tainted reputation) will prevent them from signing Ordóńez (yet alone someone like Carlos Beltrán), this expression alone from Ordóńez in Friday's papers makes him no less than Fredo. After the Fredo reference, all I can say is this..."OO-EE-OO...HE'S FRE-DO!"

My bedroom contains a cardbord cutout of Mágglio Ordóńez holding a Pepsi bottle. I also have an eight-by-ten photo he autographed for me at a SoxFest. Both of which will remain in my possession and not shuttered. I bought the cardbord cutout a few years ago at Grandstand, and many of you have undoubtedly seen it during your own visits to Grandstand. In spite of my current feelings for Mágglio Ordóńez, I will keep the cardbord cutout there in my bedroom. That is because I will continue to cherish the era in which Mágglio Ordóńez was truly a "Good Guy that Wore Black." It is not necessarily living in the past, but it will be more of a lasting memorial to the greatness that Mágglio Ordóńez was to our baseball franchise. Was.

Remember, I'm a White Sox fan first. Look, I am a Catholic who has serious issues with the Rome over a number of issues. Yet, I remain an active Catholic who has not missed a Sunday Mass since 1994. The same principle applies here with the White Sox.

ˇViva Medias Blancas!

ilsox7
12-11-2004, 12:18 AM
Awesome post. I agree with everything. Well, I have missed my fair share Sunday Mass.

pudge
12-11-2004, 12:22 AM
Pretty much perfectly stated Viva, way to keep a level head.

Whitesox029
12-11-2004, 12:38 AM
You gotta be strong in times like these Viva, and you are being. I was pretty flustered when Robin Ventura left a few years back, and we parted with him on good terms.

RichFitztightly
12-11-2004, 04:46 AM
This whole issue of the knee condition is a puzzle. It has become a case of "He said, she said" between the Ordóńez and front office camps. It has been reported that the White Sox team doctor went directly to Ordóńez and recommended the examination in Vienna. Personally, I think this physician should be replaced for leaving the front office out of the loop as has been alleged.

Dude, It's called the Hippa Laws. Doctors can't release info without the patient's permission. Any sort of violation results in HUGE penalties.

hsnterprize
12-11-2004, 09:01 AM
I pretty much concur with what Viva Magglio says about this situation. At first, I put the blame squarely on the management for their lack of being willing to sign Maggs when they had a chance. But that was more of an emotional reaction rather than a long, thought out one because of the Sox' reputation for going on the cheap when other teams were willing to shell out big bucks for a big name. With all the facts laid out, I personally feel both parties were at fault for this debacle, but Magglio went on the fringe for getting Boras as his agent. And we all know that Boras equals bad news even though he's good at getting his clients the best deals possible.

I really don't blame Magglio for wanting to get paid. Let's face it...other than Frank, Maggs was a big reason why people went to see the Sox in the first place. You're not a 4-time all star unless you're good, and regardless on how we feel about him, Magglio was a good player. But he, like a lot of others, got caught up in the money, and with Boras on his side, he make a lot more enemies than he realized. And as upset as I got when all the ugliness of the situation came out in the press, I'd forgotten that Magglio had the chance to sign with the team long-term. Granted...much of his money would've been deferred (which I'm not too crazy about), but he at least we would get it. And while I don't blame him for "wanting his money now", the way he called out the team in the press wasn't kosher. Still...it's hard to believe anyone's innocent in this whole mess. The Sox are well known for not paying their players in their prime, and that has to be considered in this equation as to who's more at fault for this situation.

I know the White Sox and us Sox fans will get through all of this. It's painful, but it's a part of sports...a popular player wants to get paid, so he gets all the help he can get to make his case (Boras). Soundbytes and lines get twisted up in the press, and ultimately, the player walks. I wish him the best, but whoever signs him had better realize if he's not 100%, he's damaged goods...plain and simple. And in that case, I have no problem with the Sox not wanting to pay him his money until he's had a year to prove he's okay. Anyone with half a brain would realize that. Now, if he turns out okay, then whoever gets him looks like a genius, while the Sox look more like fools. However...this is December. We all have until next spring to speculate what "could've been." Come April 2005, we'll all see how Maggs' knee really is.

PaulDrake
12-11-2004, 10:39 AM
My props and deepest thanks to Viva Magglio and hsnterprize for good well written posts that rise far above the "Maggs is scum" and its variations that have been all over this board lately. I choose to continue to reserve my final judgment in this case. I don't care for the owner and his managment team, that should be obvious to anyone who takes the time to read my humble offerings here. I never contended that Magglio was a saint in this matter, but I will wait before I'm convinced that JR and Co are the truly aggrieved parties here. JR has a track record. My forte and background is not in high finance, or low finance for that matter. I'm also not willing to study all the fine print in the CBA. I've been told by those who know far far better than I, that there are ways to financially jerk a player around through creative financing. Baseball is the greatest game in the world. The business aspect of it makes me want to wretch, but who am I a peon fan to complain?

Viva Magglio
12-11-2004, 01:13 PM
Dude, It's called the Hippa Laws. Doctors can't release info without the patient's permission. Any sort of violation results in HUGE penalties.
The doctor is the White Sox team physician and not Ordóńez's personal physician. Wouldn't that, for lack of a better way of putting it, get around HIPPA?

Lip Man 1
12-11-2004, 01:31 PM
Viva:

Doesn't matter. A doctor can not release information without the approval of the patient.

On another topic...

There was a story in the Sun-Times(?) today I think dealing with Ozzie's thoughts on the entire situation. In that story it was reported that the Sox were considering releasing the details of their contract offer to Maggs but decided against it.

I think this was a mistake on their part. If they felt the offer was in good faith, what would they have to lose by letting the public and the media in on it? If it was fair then they could blunt the negative PR that resulted from this. Why hide it?

Lip

SoxBoy14
12-11-2004, 01:39 PM
People make choices and with our choices come consequences. Maggs wanted Vlad money. HE'S NOT VLAD!! The Sox made him a fair offer - and I don't want to re-hash the deferred $ arguments - and he rejected it. Maggs decided to play out the season and see what the market will bear. Well, you know the rest. I pray every night that a consortium of Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey and another wealthy Chicagoan who wants to buy the Sox [name withheld] hold a press conference and buy the Bulls and Sox from JR for $350,000,000. It won't happen. But it's not JR's fault that Maggs blew out his knee. He's gone. I wish him well. He's got $20,000,000 + in the bank. Can we please get back to how are we going to win the WS in 2005?

MrRoboto83
12-11-2004, 03:27 PM
I will not miss Maggs at all, I hope the Yankees are stupid enough to sign him to a huge deal and he just totally flops and they another Giambi on their hands. Maggs is dead to me now.:angry:

striker60657
12-11-2004, 03:53 PM
I've questioned the Sox's decision making process with free agents before. Seeing them say good bye to players like Ventura, Fernandex, Alvarez, Hernandez and McDowell. I wondered why they let them go at the time only to see those players go no where and do nothing for the rest of their careers. I'm a big Magglio fan but $14+ million /year is alot of money for somebody that injurred his knee, tried to come back only to go back on the DL and later have surgery. Him switching agents and them not disclosing medical information is all real fishy. I still think they are just trying to sell damaged goods and I'm sure Boras will find a dumb buyer.

gosox41
12-11-2004, 04:36 PM
Viva:

Doesn't matter. A doctor can not release information without the approval of the patient.

On another topic...

There was a story in the Sun-Times(?) today I think dealing with Ozzie's thoughts on the entire situation. In that story it was reported that the Sox were considering releasing the details of their contract offer to Maggs but decided against it.

I think this was a mistake on their part. If they felt the offer was in good faith, what would they have to lose by letting the public and the media in on it? If it was fair then they could blunt the negative PR that resulted from this. Why hide it?

Lip
Because it's turning out to be an adolescent (in this case)he said/he said type of thing. Why stoop low and respond to every charge? Would you believe it anyway, Lip? Would you go to more games if the Sox came out and it was a good faith offer? Doubtful.

It's over. It's time to move on. Why do the Sox need to keep responding to Magglio's accusations? Good or bad, the relationship between the Sox and Magglio is over. No need for the Sox to respond to every single thing Magglio is saying. It's water under the bridge.

There have been confirmed reports from many media outlets that the Sox offered Magglio a 5 year contract in the $60-70 mill. range. Heck, I even heard Mr. Cub, Mike Murphy, on the score playing back previous broadcasts last night where he or Offman are talking about new contract proposals from the Sox and the money that was rumored to be involved.

If you're going to quote Ron Raport or whatever his name is about how JR is running his business then without any facts, then surely multiple media sources playing the same thing would be enough confirmation. Especially if you consider the Cub bias of some of these sources (ie Murphy).



Bob

TDog
12-11-2004, 05:34 PM
Viva:

Doesn't matter. A doctor can not release information without the approval of the patient....
Lip
I'm not up on labor law and the contract provisions that apply to the situation, but in this circumstance, the team may be in the medical loop for matters related to the workplace injury. The doctor is an agent of the team, which is providing the medical treatment. That would leave the team open for huge civil penalties for releasing any information. (I'm not sure how that would apply in relation to trade talks with other teams. If you have medical information about Mike Sirotka, can you legally tell Toronto?) The standard player contract may include a waiver to HIPPA rules. It would seem unlikely that professional athletes would be treated for injuries by team doctors who would be put themselves at risk of penalties under HIPPA for sharing information with the team about patient condition and treatment requirements. If a baseball player were diagnosed with an unrelated while being treated for the injury, the doctor may well be prohibited from informing the team.

HIPPA needs to be repealed, but that is not a question for this forum.

Nice post, Viva.

steff
12-11-2004, 05:40 PM
Viva:

Doesn't matter. A doctor can not release information without the approval of the patient.

On another topic...

There was a story in the Sun-Times(?) today I think dealing with Ozzie's thoughts on the entire situation. In that story it was reported that the Sox were considering releasing the details of their contract offer to Maggs but decided against it.

I think this was a mistake on their part. If they felt the offer was in good faith, what would they have to lose by letting the public and the media in on it? If it was fair then they could blunt the negative PR that resulted from this. Why hide it?

Lip
FWIU they are not releasing it due to the specific incentives detailed. Regardless.. does it really matter at this point? He's gone. Besides Lip.. I was able to get most of the specifics of it. You should be able to with your media contacts (I got mine from a media member - and it was NOT Wills).


Also.. the doctor should have given the Sox the details and it would have been at no consequence. I believe it falls under a sub point of the workers comp law.

dickallen15
12-11-2004, 06:04 PM
You gotta be strong in times like these Viva, and you are being. I was pretty flustered when Robin Ventura left a few years back, and we parted with him on good terms.
I don't think the split with Robin was on the best of terms. I think Robin was pretty happy to be leaving.

Viva Magglio
12-11-2004, 06:54 PM
I don't think the split with Robin was on the best of terms. I think Robin was pretty happy to be leaving.
After he left, Robin maintained a relationship with JR and the organization. At the beginning of the 2001 season, Robin attended the White Sox All Century Team gala at the Chicago Historical Society.

oldcomiskey
12-12-2004, 10:11 AM
I've questioned the Sox's decision making process with free agents before. Seeing them say good bye to players like Ventura, Fernandex, Alvarez, Hernandez and McDowell. I wondered why they let them go at the time only to see those players go no where and do nothing for the rest of their careers. I'm a big Magglio fan but $14+ million /year is alot of money for somebody that injurred his knee, tried to come back only to go back on the DL and later have surgery. Him switching agents and them not disclosing medical information is all real fishy. I still think they are just trying to sell damaged goods and I'm sure Boras will find a dumb buyer.

think back a little here--how many players have the sox let go via free agency that IMPROVED after they let them go--Burks -I cant think of any other player exepting maybe Boomer Wells

Over By There
12-12-2004, 11:12 AM
Just thought I'd throw in that it's "HIPAA," not "HIPPA". Health Insurance Portability and Accountabilty Act. 1 P, 2 A's. Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :smile: