PDA

View Full Version : What I'd Like to See


BRDSR
12-09-2004, 01:22 PM
With the White Sox payroll currently at about $70 million, and a consensus that the projected payroll is about $75 million, this is what I'd like to see.

I want the White Sox to sign a top free agent pitcher. I would love to see Clement in a White Sox uniform, and this would cost presumably 9-10 million, so that puts our payroll at about 80. Then, since trading Paulie seems to be a reasonably intelligent option right now, I'd like to see him traded for a catcher in the $3 million range. Preferably a catcher who puts up numbers in the .260/15/75 range who is also known for handling pitchers well. This would fill our holes in the rotation and at catcher and put our payroll figure about about $75 million. With a rotation of Buerhle, Garland, Contreras, Garcia, and Clement I can deal with our middle infield and Ross Gload/any of a host of other options at first. This seems like it fills the most holes most economically.

Kilroy
12-09-2004, 01:25 PM
...since trading Paulie seems to be a reasonably intelligent option right now, I'd like to see him traded for a catcher in the $3 million range...
Why does this seem like a reasonbly intelligent option? Since that 75 mil number isn't in stone anywhere, I'd like to see them sign Clement and keep Konerko. They'd probably make that 5 mil back easily in the rise in attendance, especially with new ticket prices that are staggered for "premium" dates. Sign Clement. Or Pavano. Get away from trades for once. Keep what we have and add to it...

chisoxmike
12-09-2004, 01:39 PM
Why does this seem like a reasonbly intelligent option? Since that 75 mil number isn't in stone anywhere, I'd like to see them sign Clement and keep Konerko. They'd probably make that 5 mil back easily in the rise in attendance, especially with new ticket prices that are staggered for "premium" dates. Sign Clement. Or Pavano. Get away from trades for once. Keep what we have and add to it...
Couldn't said it better my self.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-09-2004, 01:45 PM
It's official, it used to be Magglio Ordonez, but now, Paul Konerko is THE MOSTED UNDERRATED PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Trade him for a catcher in the $3 million range? Konerko is my guy so I'm going to say this from the bottom of my heart; you, my friend, are an IDIOT.

He's in his prime, young, AFFORDABLE ($8 mill per compared to the deal Troy Glaus signed which was over $10 mill per), and you want to trade him for a $3 million catcher...... I think it's also becoming official that this board might be infested with schmucks.

BRDSR
12-09-2004, 01:59 PM
It's official, it used to be Magglio Ordonez, but now, Paul Konerko is THE MOSTED UNDERRATED PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Trade him for a catcher in the $3 million range? Konerko is my guy so I'm going to say this from the bottom of my heart; you, my friend, are an IDIOT.

He's in his prime, young, AFFORDABLE ($8 mill per compared to the deal Troy Glaus signed which was over $10 mill per), and you want to trade him for a $3 million catcher...... I think it's also becoming official that this board might be infested with schmucks.
This is ridiculous. I make a suggestion that would bring the payroll down to what we think JR wants it to be and fill a hole at catcher and I, in the same post, am labeled an idiot and a schmuck. Would I like to sign a stud starting pitcher and keep Konerko? Absolutely. Would I rather have Konerko or a stud starting pitcher? A stud starting pitcher. I don't see that happening without losing a big salary. If you do, I applaud you for your optimism and I hope you're right, but my worst nightmare is running out a fifth starter every fifth day and losing all but ONE of them while they combine for an ERA over 10.00. The difference between Konerko and Ross Gload is not the difference between a 1-12, 10 ERA and Matt Clement. So do me a favor and the next time you want to call someone an idiot and a schmuck, keep it to yourself. It only makes you sound stupid.

MeanFish
12-09-2004, 02:02 PM
I have to admit, I was an advocate for trading Konerko until five minute ago when I read Dye's comments on the team's chemistry. Konerko has to be one of the principal forces behind that.

It's also possible that the Dye signing might get some other players to warm towards coming here. Let's just see what happens.

hold2dibber
12-09-2004, 02:12 PM
It's official, it used to be Magglio Ordonez, but now, Paul Konerko is THE MOSTED UNDERRATED PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Trade him for a catcher in the $3 million range? Konerko is my guy so I'm going to say this from the bottom of my heart; you, my friend, are an IDIOT.

He's in his prime, young, AFFORDABLE ($8 mill per compared to the deal Troy Glaus signed which was over $10 mill per), and you want to trade him for a $3 million catcher...... I think it's also becoming official that this board might be infested with schmucks.
Jeez - take a prozac or something; what a completely unwarranted personal attack. And you're the one who ends up sounding cluesless, as you're entirely missing the point. If you assume that the payroll max is $75 million, then the question isn't Konerko or $3 million catcher, the question is Konerko or $3 million catcher + Clement. And while there may be differences of opinion on what is preferable, it certainly isn't idiotic to suggest that the later is preferable.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-09-2004, 02:18 PM
This is ridiculous. I make a suggestion that would bring the payroll down to what we think JR wants it to be and fill a hole at catcher and I, in the same post, am labeled an idiot and a schmuck. Would I like to sign a stud starting pitcher and keep Konerko? Absolutely. Would I rather have Konerko or a stud starting pitcher? A stud starting pitcher. I don't see that happening without losing a big salary. If you do, I applaud you for your optimism and I hope you're right, but my worst nightmare is running out a fifth starter every fifth day and losing all but ONE of them while they combine for an ERA over 10.00. The difference between Konerko and Ross Gload is not the difference between a 1-12, 10 ERA and Matt Clement. So do me a favor and the next time you want to call someone an idiot and a schmuck, keep it to yourself. It only makes you sound stupid. First of all, regarding that last sentence of your's, no it doesn't.
Second, everyone wants to address the 5th starter issue. You're not alone on that one. Now according to some of you on these forums, the Sox have $4-$5 million more to spend. Now say we trade JON GARLAND rather than Konerko for that catcher you want, but say the catcher makes around $2 mill rather than $3 mill. Now you have $5-$6 mill to spend. With that money, go out and sign Matt Clement, he may want $1-$2 million more (per year), but he's worth it. Now our rotation consists of Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, and we still need a fifth starter. This is where we trade Carlos Lee. Remember, we have Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, and other hyped up OF prospects. I don't think we have any 1B prospects. He doesn't make a ton of cash yet but he will ask for it as soon as he's a FA. Try to deal him to the New York Mets who desperately want an OF for Victor Zambrano or to Oakland (of course you will have to throw in other players along w/ Lee) for Tim Hudson. Now those are moves.

That way we still have our solid lineup; Rowand, Uribe, Konerko, Thomas, Dye, Everett, Crede, your catcher, and Harris.

But, this way, our rotation would be either; Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Zambrano, and Contreras OR Hudson, Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, and Contreras. Either one of those looks MUCH better than Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, Garland.

hold2dibber
12-09-2004, 02:22 PM
With the White Sox payroll currently at about $70 million, and a consensus that the projected payroll is about $75 million, this is what I'd like to see.

I want the White Sox to sign a top free agent pitcher. I would love to see Clement in a White Sox uniform, and this would cost presumably 9-10 million, so that puts our payroll at about 80. Then, since trading Paulie seems to be a reasonably intelligent option right now, I'd like to see him traded for a catcher in the $3 million range. Preferably a catcher who puts up numbers in the .260/15/75 range who is also known for handling pitchers well. This would fill our holes in the rotation and at catcher and put our payroll figure about about $75 million. With a rotation of Buerhle, Garland, Contreras, Garcia, and Clement I can deal with our middle infield and Ross Gload/any of a host of other options at first. This seems like it fills the most holes most economically.
I'm not sure that Clement will cost $9 - 10 million/year. I would think he'd be available for $7 - $8 million/year. And I'm also not sure that the payroll will be $75 million; I thought I'd heard $70 million (which would mean they're pretty much done for this offseason).

But if you're right about the $75 million, another option would be to try to keep Konerko and try to find a cheaper SP alternative. For example, Woody Williams just signed a deal with the Padres that guarantees him only $3.25 million but could earn him $14 million over 2 years if he meets incentives. The Sox could try to sign, for example 2 of the following to deals for about $2.5 million guaranteed with all kinds of incentives: Wilson Alvarez, Aaron Sele, John Halama, Ismael Valdez, Andy Ashby, etc. That would give the Sox additional pitching depth, a couple of guys who could catch lightening in a bottle and have a big year as a starter or reliever and keep Konerko on the South Side.

Alanzo
12-09-2004, 02:34 PM
LET IT BE SAID:

While I was doing career/GM mode in MVP 2004, I was constantly getting e-mails from my staff telling me how Paulie was a great asset and helped keep the club atmosphere high.

It's got to mean something!

:bandance:
I have to admit, I was an advocate for trading Konerko until five minute ago when I read Dye's comments on the team's chemistry. Konerko has to be one of the principal forces behind that.

It's also possible that the Dye signing might get some other players to warm towards coming here. Let's just see what happens.

BRDSR
12-09-2004, 02:37 PM
First of all, regarding that last sentence of your's, no it doesn't.
Second, everyone wants to address the 5th starter issue. You're not alone on that one. Now according to some of you on these forums, the Sox have $4-$5 million more to spend. Now say we trade JON GARLAND rather than Konerko for that catcher you want, but say the catcher makes around $2 mill rather than $3 mill. Now you have $5-$6 mill to spend. With that money, go out and sign Matt Clement, he may want $1-$2 million more (per year), but he's worth it. Now our rotation consists of Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, and we still need a fifth starter. This is where we trade Carlos Lee. Remember, we have Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, and other hyped up OF prospects. I don't think we have any 1B prospects. He doesn't make a ton of cash yet but he will ask for it as soon as he's a FA. Try to deal him to the New York Mets who desperately want an OF for Victor Zambrano or to Oakland (of course you will have to throw in other players along w/ Lee) for Tim Hudson. Now those are moves.

That way we still have our solid lineup; Rowand, Uribe, Konerko, Thomas, Dye, Everett, Crede, your catcher, and Harris.

But, this way, our rotation would be either; Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Zambrano, and Contreras OR Hudson, Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, and Contreras. Either one of those looks MUCH better than Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, Garland.
Thank you. That is an intelligent post that offers a good alternative to the suggestion I proposed and still allows us to keep Konerko. I appreciate that type of post.

doublem23
12-09-2004, 02:37 PM
I think Paul Konerko is one of the most overrated players in the game. Look at his home/away splits...

2004 Home: .317/29/70/.414/.665/1.079
2004 Away: .239/12/47/.301/.407/.708

Though, got to give it to him... 100% of his stolen bases came on the road last year. :cool:

hold2dibber
12-09-2004, 04:22 PM
I'd like to see him traded for a catcher in the $3 million range. Preferably a catcher who puts up numbers in the .260/15/75 range who is also known for handling pitchers well.I've heard Ramon Hernandez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6258) might be available - he fits your description to a T (he hit .276/18/63 with .818 OPS in a pitcher's park last year, while earning $2.9 million and, reportedly, being pretty good at handling pitchers). Not sure whether the Padres would be interested in PK, though.

Mohoney
12-10-2004, 12:22 AM
I'm not sure that Clement will cost $9 - 10 million/year. I would think he'd be available for $7 - $8 million/year. And I'm also not sure that the payroll will be $75 million; I thought I'd heard $70 million (which would mean they're pretty much done for this offseason).

But if you're right about the $75 million, another option would be to try to keep Konerko and try to find a cheaper SP alternative. For example, Woody Williams just signed a deal with the Padres that guarantees him only $3.25 million but could earn him $14 million over 2 years if he meets incentives. The Sox could try to sign, for example 2 of the following to deals for about $2.5 million guaranteed with all kinds of incentives: Wilson Alvarez, Aaron Sele, John Halama, Ismael Valdez, Andy Ashby, etc. That would give the Sox additional pitching depth, a couple of guys who could catch lightening in a bottle and have a big year as a starter or reliever and keep Konerko on the South Side.
I really wouldn't mind Sele at all, if it meant that we could keep Konerko AND Lee. If Vazquez could be had for Garland WITHOUT giving up one of those two, and the Yankees throw in enough cash because they're desperate for Randy Johnson, we're only really adding about $3 or $4 million to this year's payroll (Take Vazquez's salary, and subtract Garland's $3.4 million and whatever cash we can swindle away from Steinbrenner).

This puts us at about $72-$73 million. We could then take a flier on somebody like Sele or Loaiza for a one year deal with a club option year to be the 5th starter, and still be under $75 million, leaving us free to try a reclamation project in the bullpen as well.



If the guy performs, he stays on in 2006. If he doesn't, at least we tried.

pearso66
12-10-2004, 12:31 AM
Right now I'd sit still on the trade front, and wait until players are non-tendered. If as assumed, Washburn is non-tendered, I'd love to pick him up. Then we have a 5th and we keep Konerko, Lee, Garland and whomever

FightingBillini
12-10-2004, 01:07 AM
First of all, regarding that last sentence of your's, no it doesn't.
Second, everyone wants to address the 5th starter issue. You're not alone on that one. Now according to some of you on these forums, the Sox have $4-$5 million more to spend. Now say we trade JON GARLAND rather than Konerko for that catcher you want, but say the catcher makes around $2 mill rather than $3 mill. Now you have $5-$6 mill to spend. With that money, go out and sign Matt Clement, he may want $1-$2 million more (per year), but he's worth it. Now our rotation consists of Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, and we still need a fifth starter. This is where we trade Carlos Lee. Remember, we have Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, and other hyped up OF prospects. I don't think we have any 1B prospects. He doesn't make a ton of cash yet but he will ask for it as soon as he's a FA. Try to deal him to the New York Mets who desperately want an OF for Victor Zambrano or to Oakland (of course you will have to throw in other players along w/ Lee) for Tim Hudson. Now those are moves.

That way we still have our solid lineup; Rowand, Uribe, Konerko, Thomas, Dye, Everett, Crede, your catcher, and Harris.

But, this way, our rotation would be either; Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Zambrano, and Contreras OR Hudson, Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, and Contreras. Either one of those looks MUCH better than Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, Garland.You send insults flying when someone mentions trading Konerko, but you suggest trading Carlos? :kukoo:
BA BA(home) BA(road) Vs. Left Vs. Right Grass Turf
Carlos .305 .302 .307 .308 .303 .306 .307
Paulie .277 .317 .239 .288 .273 .286 .209

Konerko's road average is much closer to Crede's than Lee's. He hits bad on turf, too. That includes the all important games in Minnesota. After a slow start, Carlos had a great year. I love Paulie, but his value is at an alltime high. Unless he ever hits away from home, it cant possibly get any higher. Carlos was much more valuable to this team than Konerko last year. Besides, if you really desire a .239 hitter playing first on the road, perhaps Timo can play first.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-10-2004, 01:04 PM
You send insults flying when someone mentions trading Konerko, but you suggest trading Carlos? :kukoo:
BA BA(home) BA(road) Vs. Left Vs. Right Grass Turf
Carlos .305 .302 .307 .308 .303 .306 .307
Paulie .277 .317 .239 .288 .273 .286 .209

Konerko's road average is much closer to Crede's than Lee's. He hits bad on turf, too. That includes the all important games in Minnesota. After a slow start, Carlos had a great year. I love Paulie, but his value is at an alltime high. Unless he ever hits away from home, it cant possibly get any higher. Carlos was much more valuable to this team than Konerko last year. Besides, if you really desire a .239 hitter playing first on the road, perhaps Timo can play first.
How did Carlos Lee do vs. Minnesota? Carlos is a GREAT player. No doubt, he's a great hitter, has some power, and defensively, he has improved vastly. That being said, I think Konerko is worth $8 mill per and earns it not only with the numbers he puts up but more importantly with the way he runs the clubhouse. In my opinion, Mark Buehrle and Konerko are the leaders of the team.
Do not leave out the fact that Lee will be a free agent soon and will command somewhere between $7-$10 mill per year (depending on the market which this year had Steve Finley signing a 2 year deal that can wind up paying him upto $10 mill per, mind you he is 39-40 years old).