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View Full Version : Weigh in on Jermaine Dye...


doublem23
12-09-2004, 11:44 AM
What do you think?

SoxxoS
12-09-2004, 11:47 AM
Rob Neyer (who is the best writer at ESPN) said Dye was his best FA bargain signing...considering the D'Backs just spend 10.5 million per on a 3B whose arm could fall off at any time...I would say 4.5 million per is solid.

I wish I could copy and paste, but Mozilla won't let me....The rest of the article says that we can anticipate Dye having one more great season before he turns 35 (similar to the season in 2000).

JRIG
12-09-2004, 11:50 AM
I can't believe I'm saying this...but signing Dye to this contract could be KW's best move since the Damaso Marte trade.

I'm speechless. Takes the bad taste of Hermanson out of my mouth. Or...it at least covers it up for the moment.

Justafan
12-09-2004, 11:51 AM
Not a great move, not a bad one. I call it a step(actually two)back from Magglio. Dye is going to be a .260/23/80 type of player. Second tier player but that is what KW said they were going to be doing and he is keeping his word.

voodoochile
12-09-2004, 11:52 AM
Rob Neyer (who is the best writer at ESPN) said Dye was his best FA bargain signing...considering the D'Backs just spend 10.5 million per on a 3B whose arm could fall off at any time...I would say 4.5 million per is solid.

I wish I could copy and paste, but Mozilla won't let me....The rest of the article says that we can anticipate Dye having one more great season before he turns 35 (similar to the season in 2000).
I had the same problem...

Use the keyboard shortcuts:

ctrl+y = copy
ctrl+v = paste

Flight #24
12-09-2004, 11:53 AM
Not a great move, not a bad one. I call it a step(actually two)back from Magglio. Dye is going to be a .260/23/80 type of player. Second tier player but that is what KW said they were going to be doing and he is keeping his word.
In USCF, I'd bet Dye hits a lot more than 23HR. That will make this, IMO, a GREAT signing.

JRIG
12-09-2004, 11:55 AM
In USCF, I'd bet Dye hits a lot more than 23HR. That will make this, IMO, a GREAT signing.
Bingo. If you want to imagine what Dye could do...take a look at his last two seasons with Kansas City -- in Kaufman Stadium -- a great hitters' park like USCF. This is a bargain, a steal, the type of deal only other GMs usually put together.

Justafan
12-09-2004, 11:56 AM
In USCF, I'd bet Dye hits a lot more than 23HR. That will make this, IMO, a GREAT signing.
I'm not saying he wont. I'm just saying that Dye is a few pegs down from Maggs on the numbers chart. Again, this is not a bad move but it is nothing fantastic either.

voodoochile
12-09-2004, 11:57 AM
I'm not saying he wont. I'm just saying that Dye is a few pegs down from Maggs on the numbers chart. Again, this is not a bad move but it is nothing fantastic either.
That presupposes that Maggs truly is healthy and ready to play next year. How much money would you personally be willing to bet on that happening?

DumpJerry
12-09-2004, 11:57 AM
Does this mean the Joe Borchard era is finally over? I still think the Sox should trade Borchard to the Bears (to be QB behind Hutchinson and George) for R.W. McQuarters (speed on the basepaths).

Flight #24
12-09-2004, 11:57 AM
I'm not saying he wont. I'm just saying that Dye is a few pegs down from Maggs on the numbers chart. Again, this is not a bad move but it is nothing fantastic either.
Realistically, if healthy, Maggs would probably be .310/35/120.

I believe Dye will put up .280/30/90.

Step down? Sure. but given the injury situation with Maggs, not really a riskier signing. And at $10mil less? No brainer.

Mickster
12-09-2004, 11:58 AM
Realistically, if healthy, Maggs would probably be .310/35/120.

I believe Dye will put up .280/30/90.

Step down? Sure. but given the injury situation with Maggs, not really a riskier signing. And at $10mil less? No brainer.
:thumbsup:

fledgedrallycap
12-09-2004, 11:59 AM
This has the pontential to be a great signing.

The contact is very fair and if healthy, he is a very good player.

Justafan
12-09-2004, 11:59 AM
Kudos to KW for NOT giving the job to Borchard. I think Maggs is going to be ok, it's just a feeling I have. This IS a decent replacement for him.

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2004, 11:59 AM
No question, Dye's best years are behind him. He's no Maggs Ordonez. But among the various realistic options, he's probably the best. Dino will probably get some playing time in RF against RHP, assuming CLee isn't traded in some deal.

pinwheels3530
12-09-2004, 11:59 AM
I thought Carlos Beltran was going to come here to replace Magglio!!!:(:

Tekijawa
12-09-2004, 12:01 PM
I like the signing but this doesn't put us over the top... Still waiting for Kenny to wow me and force me to but those season tickets that I've been wanting to buy for the past 2 seasons.... Somehow I believe that this will be the third consecutive year that that money will be collecting money in my bank account instead of Jerry's... Come on Kenny blow me away!

kraut83
12-09-2004, 12:04 PM
I'm not saying he wont. I'm just saying that Dye is a few pegs down from Maggs on the numbers chart. Again, this is not a bad move but it is nothing fantastic either.
IMO most outfielders are a few levels down from a pre-injury maggs. I like the signing because it fills a hole on the team with someone who has proven he can perform on the major league level, and for a good price. Now its time for Kenny to get after Clement!

jshanahanjr
12-09-2004, 12:08 PM
I like the move, but I'll love it if the Sox sign Clement or Pavano.

TommyJohn
12-09-2004, 12:21 PM
What do you think?
In one word:




BAH!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

minastirith67
12-09-2004, 12:33 PM
The Sox did the best they could do in the wake of Ordonez's departure. I am excited about this move and its potential, but I still worry about the holes in the organization.

If only we could get a decent pitcher and catcher...

PaulDrake
12-09-2004, 12:41 PM
While I don't think this is a BAD sigining judging from the votes we have some raging optimists here. If Dye can stay healthy and perform to his abilities he is a slightly above average everyday outfielder. This team still has a ways to go before it is ready to compete with the elite of MLB.

CubKilla
12-09-2004, 12:43 PM
At least he came cheap. God knows how important that is to this Organization.

The Sox getting Dye also comes as no surprise to me. I expected it.

Jabroni
12-09-2004, 12:48 PM
Not a great move, not a bad one. I call it a step(actually two)back from Magglio. Dye is going to be a .260/23/80 type of player. Second tier player but that is what KW said they were going to be doing and he is keeping his word.Of course it's a step back from Magglio. No one is denying that. But would you rather have a healthy Dye at $9 million for 2 years or an injured Maggs for $14 per season? :rolleyes:

SoxxoS
12-09-2004, 12:53 PM
No question, Dye's best years are behind him.
I don't agree with saying that...It seems he had a career year in 2000...then regressed more toward the .800 OPS hitter he is. That is why he signed for 4.5 million per. As Neyer said...he is probably going to have one more career year before the age of 35...hopefully it comes in the next two years.

It's not like he has been in steady decline ala Harold Baines and such.

WinningUgly!
12-09-2004, 01:04 PM
http://www.buckparadise.com/new_deer_galleries/lg_2003/08_deer_03.jpg

I like the deal because Daver gets a new hunting buddy out of it. :redneck

Randar68
12-09-2004, 01:12 PM
No question, Dye's best years are behind him. He's no Maggs Ordonez. But among the various realistic options, he's probably the best. Dino will probably get some playing time in RF against RHP, assuming CLee isn't traded in some deal.
Do you realize that he and Maggs are about the same age?

batmanZoSo
12-09-2004, 01:25 PM
Rob Neyer (who is the best writer at ESPN) said Dye was his best FA bargain signing...considering the D'Backs just spend 10.5 million per on a 3B whose arm could fall off at any time...I would say 4.5 million per is solid.

I wish I could copy and paste, but Mozilla won't let me....The rest of the article says that we can anticipate Dye having one more great season before he turns 35 (similar to the season in 2000).
Yeah, what's up with that? You have to use ctrl+v instead of right clicking I noticed most, if not all of the time. And when I click the hyperlink button, it says "you must select text for Mozilla to use this feature." When I already did select text.

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2004, 01:26 PM
Do you realize that he and Maggs are about the same age?It's not just age. Dye never seemed to be the same player after breaking his leg. Maybe he'll get it back, hopefully in the next two years. But his peak years were clearly 1999-2001. He's been on the wrong side of .280 since.

Flight #24
12-09-2004, 01:37 PM
It's not just age. Dye never seemed to be the same player after breaking his leg. Maybe he'll get it back, hopefully in the next two years. But his peak years were clearly 1999-2001. He's been on the wrong side of .280 since.
Don't forget, he broke his leg, then the following year separated his shoulder. last year was his first relatively healthy year, hopefully being another year removed from the series of injuries will enable him to be that much healthier and therefore clsoer to his 99-01 production.

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2004, 01:39 PM
Don't forget, he broke his leg, then the following year separated his shoulder. last year was his first relatively healthy year, hopefully being another year removed from the series of injuries will enable him to be that much healthier and therefore clsoer to his 99-01 production.That would make me VERRRYYY :smile:.

MRKARNO
12-09-2004, 01:41 PM
This is a very smart move by Kenny Williams. Dye is probably the best value for a regular RF on the market this year and we got him for a more than reasonable rate. At very least he will be an average right fielder, someone who we can count on to be average, but not a star. He also has the ability to revert to his 1999-2001 form, especially considering that he will be moving to the homer-happy US Cellular Field. Who knows? If Finley can hit a career high in homers at 39, why cant Dye hit 30-35 homers a year over the next two? If he's healthy, this is a definate possiblity and he could be a "comeback player of the year" candidate. Huge props to KW for this low risk high reward signing. This is his best FA signing of an established player in his tenure (ie not Takatsu/Loaiza).

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2004, 01:44 PM
Remember how everybody laughed when rotoworld suggested this?

batmanZoSo
12-09-2004, 01:48 PM
This is a very smart move by Kenny Williams. Dye is probably the best value for a regular RF on the market this year and we got him for a more than reasonable rate. At very least he will be an average right fielder, someone who we can count on to be average, but not a star. He also has the ability to revert to his 1999-2001 form, especially considering that he will be moving to the homer-happy US Cellular Field. Who knows? If Finley can hit a career high in homers at 39, why cant Dye hit 30-35 homers a year over the next two? If he's healthy, this is a definate possiblity and he could be a "comeback player of the year" candidate. Huge props to KW for this low risk high reward signing. This is his best FA signing of an established player in his tenure (ie not Takatsu/Loaiza).
It's a somewhat low risk and very high possible reward venture. And we still have Everett, so we're not crippled if Dye can't stay healthy. While we're prone to major surgery-type injuries that you can't really avoid, we've been pretty good at keeping our players free from those constant nagging injuries that guys like Dye and Griffey always get. Dye probably made the most sense of anyone out there. We don't need a whole lot of hitting help, but a Magglio replacement is certainly appreciated. And at the same time we could spend a lot because we need so much pitching. Good move.

jabrch
12-09-2004, 01:49 PM
No question, Dye's best years are behind him. He's no Maggs Ordonez.
For what it is worth, Maggs isn't Magglio Ordonez anymore. This injury puts severe doubt into his future.

hose
12-09-2004, 01:53 PM
Looks like KW got a deal signing Dye for $9 million. Dye said he turned down more money from other clubs because he believes the Sox are a contender.

Maybe KW let Dye in on other possible moves in the mix to sell him on the Sox.

batmanZoSo
12-09-2004, 01:58 PM
Looks like KW got a deal signing Dye for $9 million. Dye said he turned down more money from other clubs because he believes the Sox are a contender.

Maybe KW let Dye in on other possible moves in the mix to sell him on the Sox.
That would be good because that means that at least one big name is coming our way, but it could also be that Dye was getting offers from the likes of Tampa Bay and DC and we were just the best city and the best team of the pack.

doublem23
12-09-2004, 02:00 PM
That would be good because that means that at least one big name is coming our way, but it could also be that Dye was getting offers from the likes of Tampa Bay and DC and we were just the best city and the best team of the pack.
Or he's noticed how absolutely miserable the Central is.

tadscout
12-09-2004, 02:25 PM
They said he was offered a better deal by the Rangers as well too though...

I think he just likes our style... and also KW has let him in on some upcoming moves... at least I hope!:bandance:

southsider17
12-09-2004, 02:28 PM
That would be good because that means that at least one big name is coming our way, but it could also be that Dye was getting offers from the likes of Tampa Bay and DC and we were just the best city and the best team of the pack.I heard ESPN1000 say that Levine said the other offers were from Texas and the D'backs.

By the way I like this signing. Low risk, potentially very high reward.


But we still need a pitcher (at least a good #4).

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2004, 02:30 PM
They said he was offered a better deal by the Rangers as well too though...

I think he just likes our style... and also KW has let him in on some upcoming moves... at least I hope!:bandance:Or maybe he likes the idea of an additional 10 dingers a year playing in Coors East. You know, now that I think of it, maybe that's part of the reason FA pitchers are not so eager to sign with the Sox.:(:

Jabroni
12-09-2004, 02:32 PM
Or maybe he likes the idea of an additional 10 dingers a year playing in Coors East. You know, now that I think of it, maybe that's part of the reason FA pitchers are not so eager to sign with the Sox.:(:Yep, Dye was asked this question in his conference call at WhiteSox.com and he said, "Well, alot of factors came into play. I've always hit well there. That definately came into play." :tongue: He still said that he has always loved Chicago, the team, and the White Sox chemistry.

34 Inch Stick
12-09-2004, 03:33 PM
Maybe he has ancestors from Venezuala and wanted to get in on Ozzieball.

Nick@Nite
12-09-2004, 04:03 PM
I like the move, but I'll love it if the Sox sign Clement or Pavano. Getting either one those guys (both would be a$king for too much) along with an upgrade at either 2B or C (again, both would be a$king for too much), and I'd be banastic.:bandance:

Signing Clement and Pavano along with upgrades at 2B & C and I'd be uber-banastic. :supernana:

Foulke29
12-09-2004, 04:11 PM
Bingo. If you want to imagine what Dye could do...take a look at his last two seasons with Kansas City -- in Kaufman Stadium -- a great hitters' park like USCF. This is a bargain, a steal, the type of deal only other GMs usually put together.
Remember how much he liked playing in the Central Division as well...

A. Cavatica
12-09-2004, 07:53 PM
I like it. Cost-effective. Still lots to do before we can consider ourselves contenders.

HaroMaster87
12-09-2004, 09:01 PM
How's his defense and his arm? I dont remember...

lths06
12-09-2004, 09:11 PM
Does this mean the Joe Borchard era is finally over? I still think the Sox should trade Borchard to the Bears (to be QB behind Hutchinson and George) for R.W. McQuarters (speed on the basepaths).
Has that actually ever happened, a trade between the MLB and NFL? I know that Barry Sanders played in both the NFL and MLB, but I believe he played in both simoltaniously.

Jabroni
12-09-2004, 09:12 PM
How's his defense and his arm? I dont remember...2000 American League Gold Glover and I think he has a strong arm.

Jabroni
12-09-2004, 10:21 PM
How's his defense and his arm? I dont remember...http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=5610
Baserunning & Defense
Prior to his broken leg, Dye had pretty good speed and could have nabbed double digits in swipes. Oakland, though, has not been a team to put runners in motion, and the injury has made him more tentative on the bases. In the field he has a very good glove, and even if he has lost a step, Dye gets a good jump. His arm is tremendous, and baserunners and opposing coaches know it.:supernana:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-14-2004, 05:44 PM
In one word:




BAH!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: I have to agree. Coming back from a 1 week Vegas trip, I wasn't suprised to see the gushing praises of this, one of the latest $5 mil / year over the hill over priced free agent wastes picked up by Kenny G Williams.

The A's have been trying to dump Dye since his 2001 knee injury.

I don't see the need to spend yet another $5 million (on top of Everett, Contreras, injured Thomas) getting a right handed low OBP RF.

I guess all the clamour for pitching, OBP and defense (when Kenny Williams states that is his off season goal) goes out the window when pitching, OBP and defense is not signed.

Add the latest deal and Williams made the White Sox 10 games worse in 2005.

White Sox - Lose Carlos Lee

Gain - Pretty much worthless - Luis Vizcaino, Dustin Hermanson, Kevin Walker
Hitters - Low OBP Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye.

At least I have something to cheer for in 2005 with the New York Mets.

It will take years to clean up Kenny Williams' mess before White Sox fans have a realistic hope for contention.

DaveIsHere
12-14-2004, 05:47 PM
I have to agree. Coming back from a 1 week Vegas trip, I wasn't suprised to see the gushing praises of this, one of the latest $5 mil / year over the hill over priced free agent wastes picked up by Kenny G Williams.

The A's have been trying to dump Dye since his 2001 knee injury.

I don't see the need to spend yet another $5 million (on top of Everett, Contreras, injured Thomas) getting a right handed low OBP RF.

I guess all the clamour for pitching, OBP and defense (when Kenny Williams states that is his off season goal) goes out the window when pitching, OBP and defense is not signed.

Add the latest deal and Williams made the White Sox 10 games worse in 2005.

White Sox - Lose Carlos Lee

Gain - Pretty much worthless - Luis Vizcaino, Dustin Hermanson, Kevin Walker
Hitters - Low OBP Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye.

At least I have something to cheer for in 2005 with the New York Mets.

It will take years to clean up Kenny Williams' mess before White Sox fans have a realistic hope for contention.
Maybe you people should wait and see what the seasons brings, or i guess you can keep wasting your time speculating. I think that people that constantly complain about this club should not be allowed to celebrate when we win a WS

SouthSide_HitMen
12-14-2004, 05:53 PM
Maybe you people should wait and see what the seasons brings, or i guess you can keep wasting your time speculating. I think that people that constantly complain about this club should not be allowed to celebrate when we win a WS
Offseason moves are supposed to IMPROVE the ballclub. I don't have to wait to know the three acquired pitchers, Dye and Podsednik are going to lower wins in 2005.

I have been waiting for over 20 years of Reinsdorf baseball and the inept management for Reinsdorf to leave but that isn't happening until God removes him from the planet. I guess that is the only thing Sox fans can hope for in 2005.

HaroMaster87
12-14-2004, 08:34 PM
At least I have something to cheer for in 2005 with the New York Mets.


Are you kidding me? The Mets??????

How many starts before Pedros arm falls off???

Kris Benson...yeah right...

Ol Aches & Pains
12-14-2004, 08:40 PM
Well, he's no Magglio Ordonez, but at least we don't have to open the season with Joe friggin' Borchard in right field.

fquaye149
12-14-2004, 08:54 PM
Offseason moves are supposed to IMPROVE the ballclub. I don't have to wait to know the three acquired pitchers, Dye and Podsednik are going to lower wins in 2005.

Oh you KNOW THAT?. . .I would like to know how w/o danny wright or billy koch and WITH frank coming back eventually we will score less runs/have less wins

grilli(at the worst)>wright/diaz/rauch
contreras>a month 1/2 of schoenweis
hermanson>mike jackson
vizcaino>koch
frank>carlos

last I checked...i mean I know carlos is cooperstown bound now that kenny traded him and everything...

and by the way I'm not saying we WILL win more...I'm just wondering how our team is GUARANTEED to lose more games?

Lip Man 1
12-14-2004, 09:01 PM
Dave Is Here says: "I think that people that constantly complain about this club should not be allowed to celebrate when we win a WS."

LOL LOL LOL


By the time the Sox even GET TO let alone win a World Series most of us will be friggin' dead!

Lip

jordan23ventura
12-14-2004, 10:15 PM
I guess all the clamour for pitching, OBP and defense (when Kenny Williams states that is his off season goal) goes out the window when pitching, OBP and defense is not signed.

What? What did the Lee trade and the Dye and Hermanson signings do besides improve defense and the bullpen? Podsednik is unproven, but for what he is making and given what he accomplished in his rookie year, I'll take a chance on him. Oh wait, I forgot that one bad year means everything.

Add the latest deal and Williams made the White Sox 10 games worse in 2005.
And then what happens if KW signs another big bat or SP?

It will take years to clean up Kenny Williams' mess before White Sox fans have a realistic hope for contention.
How many? 46? That's how long its been since the last WS appearance. Let them try a new direction.

At least I have something to cheer for in 2005 with the New York Mets.
Good luck there. Go Mets.