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Lip Man 1
12-08-2004, 12:42 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-041207rogers,1,1154598.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Brilliant piece of writing especially the last paragraph!

Lip

pearso66
12-08-2004, 12:52 AM
I noticed the 2nd to last paragraph that said we didnt give the extra million or 2 or extra year. It was speculated that we offered 70 mil 5 years, which many thought to be overpaying, even though it was backloaded, and he declined. Do I think we should have offered him arbitration, yes, but I do not blame the Sox for him leaving

SpartanSoxFan
12-08-2004, 01:20 AM
I just wish he would get it over with, sign somewhere else and put us all out of our misery, so we can move on. Yes, its crappy that Maggs is leaving, but what is the point of crying over spilled milk? Hopefully KW will sign SOMEONE before April...:angry:

MERPER
12-08-2004, 01:29 AM
Mr. Rogers-- As a young journalist learning about moral ethics and reporting objectively, I feel your recent column "All Maggs did on the South Side was produce."* A piece of poor journalism such as this doesn't surprise me coming from the Cubune... A national paper which firmly believes only one MLB team plays in Chicago

I find it ironic that a negative story about the White Sox losing Ordonez is the most publicity Maggs has gotten from the Cubune throughout his career.

That's not the reason I find this piece of "journalism" a complete joke.* Throughout this piece, you suggest that it is the Sox fault that Maggs won't be resigned, while calling him "one of the greatest players of his generation."

If you know your baseball, which I once thought you did, you would know that Magglio is seemingly a case of the common athlete who is all about the money.* He suffered a serious knee injury, one which is extremely rare and needed 2 surgical procedures to fix.* Does this sound like a bargain?* A sure-fire deal?*

Now, after the Sox had offered Ordonez a reasonable $14 million, 5-year deal (the richest in franchise history) he turned it down.* He then wouldn't work out for his until recent employers and signed with Scott Boras, a clear slap in the face.* Yet, I still wonder how he is a guranteed bargain when his health is completely uncertain.

Furthermore, you write for a paper which owns a team that has players (Sosa) hiked up on steroids thus producing astronomical power numbers and pushing Ordonez's stats to the background.* It is because of your team that Ordonez and the White Sox (who both have a disgust with steroids and DO NOT associate themselves with the products) get no respect.*

I can't vent anymore because I consider this a waste of my time.* Thank you once again for showing the bias oozing through the pages of the Cubune.* Your poor ethics and journalism will serve as a great reminder of the type of journalist I will not be.

kittle42
12-08-2004, 01:33 AM
Mr. Rogers-- As a young journalist learning about moral ethics and reporting objectively, I feel your recent column "All Maggs did on the South Side was produce."* A piece of poor journalism such as this doesn't surprise me coming from the Cubune... A national paper which firmly believes only one MLB team plays in Chicago

I find it ironic that a negative story about the White Sox losing Ordonez is the most publicity Maggs has gotten from the Cubune throughout his career.

That's not the reason I find this piece of "journalism" a complete joke.* Throughout this piece, you suggest that it is the Sox fault that Maggs won't be resigned, while calling him "one of the greatest players of his generation."

If you know your baseball, which I once thought you did, you would know that Magglio is seemingly a case of the common athlete who is all about the money.* He suffered a serious knee injury, one which is extremely rare and needed 2 surgical procedures to fix.* Does this sound like a bargain?* A sure-fire deal?*

Now, after the Sox had offered Ordonez a reasonable $14 million, 5-year deal (the richest in franchise history) he turned it down.* He then wouldn't work out for his until recent employers and signed with Scott Boras, a clear slap in the face.* Yet, I still wonder how he is a guranteed bargain when his health is completely uncertain.

Furthermore, you write for a paper which owns a team that has players (Sosa) hiked up on steroids thus producing astronomical power numbers and pushing Ordonez's stats to the background.* It is because of your team that Ordonez and the White Sox (who both have a disgust with steroids and DO NOT associate themselves with the products) get no respect.*

I can't vent anymore because I consider this a waste of my time.* Thank you once again for showing the bias oozing through the pages of the Cubune.* Your poor ethics and journalism will serve as a great reminder of the type of journalist I will not be.
I hat ethe Cubs as much as the next sane man, but even I just found myself saying "Leave it to a Sox fan to somehow turn this situation into a Sox/Cubs thing."

StillMissOzzie
12-08-2004, 01:53 AM
Mr. Rogers-- As a young journalist learning about moral ethics and reporting objectively, I feel your recent column "All Maggs did on the South Side was produce."* A piece of poor journalism such as this doesn't surprise me coming from the Cubune... A national paper which firmly believes only one MLB team plays in Chicago
.
.
.

I can't vent anymore because I consider this a waste of my time.* Thank you once again for showing the bias oozing through the pages of the Cubune.* Your poor ethics and journalism will serve as a great reminder of the type of journalist I will not be.
A fine letter, MERPER, and welcome to WSI! Let us know if you hear back from Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

SMO
:gulp:

pudge
12-08-2004, 02:02 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-041207rogers,1,1154598.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Brilliant piece of writing especially the last paragraph!

Lip
In general I liked the article except for the last paragraph...

Look, they tried to get something for him, they had a deal in the off-season that fell through. Then they made a push to re-sign him, then he got hurt and they couldn't trade him.

You can bitch and moan about the Sox lousy history all you want, I simply can't find a lot to blame them on in the Ordonez situation.

ilsox7
12-08-2004, 02:11 AM
Mr. Rogers-- As a young journalist learning about moral ethics and reporting objectively, I feel your recent column "All Maggs did on the South Side was produce."* A piece of poor journalism such as this doesn't surprise me coming from the Cubune... A national paper which firmly believes only one MLB team plays in Chicago

I find it ironic that a negative story about the White Sox losing Ordonez is the most publicity Maggs has gotten from the Cubune throughout his career.

That's not the reason I find this piece of "journalism" a complete joke.* Throughout this piece, you suggest that it is the Sox fault that Maggs won't be resigned, while calling him "one of the greatest players of his generation."

If you know your baseball, which I once thought you did, you would know that Magglio is seemingly a case of the common athlete who is all about the money.* He suffered a serious knee injury, one which is extremely rare and needed 2 surgical procedures to fix.* Does this sound like a bargain?* A sure-fire deal?*

Now, after the Sox had offered Ordonez a reasonable $14 million, 5-year deal (the richest in franchise history) he turned it down.* He then wouldn't work out for his until recent employers and signed with Scott Boras, a clear slap in the face.* Yet, I still wonder how he is a guranteed bargain when his health is completely uncertain.

Furthermore, you write for a paper which owns a team that has players (Sosa) hiked up on steroids thus producing astronomical power numbers and pushing Ordonez's stats to the background.* It is because of your team that Ordonez and the White Sox (who both have a disgust with steroids and DO NOT associate themselves with the products) get no respect.*

I can't vent anymore because I consider this a waste of my time.* Thank you once again for showing the bias oozing through the pages of the Cubune.* Your poor ethics and journalism will serve as a great reminder of the type of journalist I will not be.
I'll try to keep this nice. I have gone on record as saying that I lost pretty much all respect for Maggs b/c of how he (err, Boras) has handled his injury. I do not blame Maggs for passing on the Sox deal. Was the deal fair? Yes. But it's his right to test the market and maybe consider moving to a team that has a better shot at winning it all.

Having said that, I don't think you could have missed the boat any more than you did with your response to Phil Rogers' column. This was a story about Magglio and how good he was with the Sox. He showed up every day, went about his business quietly, and put up All-Star numbers. And now he is leaving. What's so wrong with recognizing that? As for Rogers mentioning that with another team with a bigger payroll he should have never gotten to free agency? He's right. It's a fact. It's not him slanting some obscure fact or scenario against the Sox. Take his article for what it was: a going away tribute to a "pro's pro" who handled himself tremendously until he was injured. Even I, being as repulsed as I have been by his treatment of the injury, can stand up and applaud Maggs for 98% of the time he was here. Maggs earned the recognition gicen to him from this article. This isn't part of the greater conspiracy against the Sox. Some things are. This one isn't and I'd hope everyone else here would applaud Phil for reminding us and Chicago about the good times Magglio gave us.

Flame away.

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2004, 08:01 AM
Lip,

I agree with you on most things. But there are times when Uncle Jerry is right. This is one of them.

I'm disappointed that Maggs is leaving. I'm also disappointed he got hurt. He may never again be the same player. Such a shame.

But it would be foolish for the Sox to commit the kind of guaranteed money that Maggs/Boras demands when Boras won't allow Sox doctors to examine his injured knee.

Best case scenario, if Boras is telling the truth, Maggs has a knee injury that has required two surgeries in the last six months. Is that worth $70 million guaranteed for five years? Would you guarantee that kind of money?

Worst case scenario, Boras is hiding something -- and it could be as bad as necrosis of the bone.

Boras has a track record of dishonesty. I wouldn't trust the slimeball with a dime, much less $70 million.

It was nice knowing you, Maggs...

JR may be cheap and stupid, but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every so often. In this case, Uncle Jerry is right.

gosox41
12-08-2004, 08:08 AM
In general I liked the article except for the last paragraph...

Look, they tried to get something for him, they had a deal in the off-season that fell through. Then they made a push to re-sign him, then he got hurt and they couldn't trade him.

You can bitch and moan about the Sox lousy history all you want, I simply can't find a lot to blame them on in the Ordonez situation.
If Magglio had sign that 5 year 14 million dollar contract we'd probably reading an article by Rogers saying how the Sox were going to have a tough time with all the question marks regarding Magglio's knee.

Can't win with the media either way.

One question: Rogers mentioned Magglio having a surgery in Vienna that wasn't legal in the US. What surgery was it? I thought he had was a torn miniscus.


Also, back when Magglio had the surgery, didn't Boras say Magglio would be ready to play in December. The other day I read an article that now it's February.


Bob

MRKARNO
12-08-2004, 09:15 AM
Mr. Rogers-- As a young journalist learning about moral ethics and reporting objectively, I feel your recent column "All Maggs did on the South Side was produce."* A piece of poor journalism such as this doesn't surprise me coming from the Cubune... A national paper which firmly believes only one MLB team plays in Chicago

I find it ironic that a negative story about the White Sox losing Ordonez is the most publicity Maggs has gotten from the Cubune throughout his career.

That's not the reason I find this piece of "journalism" a complete joke.* Throughout this piece, you suggest that it is the Sox fault that Maggs won't be resigned, while calling him "one of the greatest players of his generation."

If you know your baseball, which I once thought you did, you would know that Magglio is seemingly a case of the common athlete who is all about the money.* He suffered a serious knee injury, one which is extremely rare and needed 2 surgical procedures to fix.* Does this sound like a bargain?* A sure-fire deal?*

Now, after the Sox had offered Ordonez a reasonable $14 million, 5-year deal (the richest in franchise history) he turned it down.* He then wouldn't work out for his until recent employers and signed with Scott Boras, a clear slap in the face.* Yet, I still wonder how he is a guranteed bargain when his health is completely uncertain.

Furthermore, you write for a paper which owns a team that has players (Sosa) hiked up on steroids thus producing astronomical power numbers and pushing Ordonez's stats to the background.* It is because of your team that Ordonez and the White Sox (who both have a disgust with steroids and DO NOT associate themselves with the products) get no respect.*

I can't vent anymore because I consider this a waste of my time.* Thank you once again for showing the bias oozing through the pages of the Cubune.* Your poor ethics and journalism will serve as a great reminder of the type of journalist I will not be.

I agree with your points wholeheartedly.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-08-2004, 09:42 AM
I agree with your points wholeheartedly. Mark the date, Sox Fans. This is the first *official* thread (of countless more to follow) that places the subject of Magglio Ordonez OUT of Sox Clubhouse and into Talking Baseball.

And gee, what a surprise. Some Sox Fans are already accusing the Cubune of bias for reporting the facts of the subject. This one will fit in just perfectly with all the Flubbie-obsessed nonsense over there.

Farewell, Magglio. We wish you hadn't gotten hurt and we wish your agent was a more reasonable negotiator, but we understand (most of us) why you wouldn't trust Sox ownership's motives anymore than the rest of us do. He's protecting your interests to get the best deal possible. It sucks... but it's understandable, too.

Most of all, we Sox Fans wish our team had a plan for replacing you. Naturally, we don't. We regret this most of all.
:(:

Now off to Talking Baseball for more deep thoughts about Magglio...

Enjoy yourselves, kiddies...

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2004, 10:08 AM
Farewell, Magglio. We wish you hadn't gotten hurt and we wish your agent was a more reasonable negotiator, but we understand (most of us) why you wouldn't trust Sox ownership's motives anymore than the rest of us do. He's protecting your interests to get the best deal possible. It sucks... but it's understandable, too.

George, if you owned the White Sox, would you sign Maggs to a 5 year/$75 million guaranteed deal without having the opportunity to have your team doctor examine Maggs' knee, which has been operated on twice in the last six months? I agree JR is cheap and stupid, but he's smart to not gamble that kind of money on such uncertainty.

Most of all, we Sox Fans wish our team had a plan for replacing you. Naturally, we don't. We regret this most of all.

Agreed and Amen.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-08-2004, 10:15 AM
George, if you owned the White Sox, would you sign Maggs to a 5 year/$75 million guaranteed deal without having the opportunity to have your team doctor examine Maggs' knee, which has been operated on twice in the last six months? I agree JR is cheap and stupid, but he's smart to not gamble that kind of money on such uncertainty.



Agreed and Amen.
No, I don't feel the Sox should have offered Magglio a contract or arbitration. Boras is a hard-nose negotiator and wants to test Magglio's value on the open market. The Sox are smart not to offer him a deal.

As for the Cubune being biased for not writing a "good riddins" sort article about Magglio, that's a load of hooey. I can see we're off to a fast start turning this subject into yet another Us vs. Them debate. That's why this thread is inside Talking Baseball... where we can discuss the conspiracy behind it all.
:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2004, 10:44 AM
No, I don't feel the Sox should have offered Magglio a contract or arbitration. Boras is a hard-nose negotiator and wants to test Magglio's value on the open market. The Sox are smart not to offer him a deal.

As for the Cubune being biased for not writing a "good riddins" sort article about Magglio, that's a load of hooey. I can see we're off to a fast start turning this subject into yet another Us vs. Them debate. That's why this thread is inside Talking Baseball... where we can discuss the conspiracy behind it all.
:cool:

Thanks for earnestly answering my question. Glad to see we agree. :cool:

Lip Man 1
12-08-2004, 11:40 AM
Ilsox and PHG great comments.

Do I blame the Sox for not signing Maggs given the nature of his injury...of course not, but I think and I feel Rogers was saying this, that if the Sox had signed him to a deal sometime in the PAST and NOT let it come to where he was able to walk away for nothing, history would have been changed.

There were no guarantees that if Maggs has signed an extension say in 2003, that he would have gotten hurt in May 2004.

What I think Rogers was implying by the mention of Robin Ventura is that this has happened in the past, it's happening now and it will continue to happen in the future because that is the organization's 'bottom line' mentality.

And it is killing this franchise.

Lip

voodoochile
12-08-2004, 11:51 AM
Ilsox and PHG great comments.

Do I blame the Sox for not signing Maggs given the nature of his injury...of course not, but I think and I feel Rogers was saying this, that if the Sox had signed him to a deal sometime in the PAST and NOT let it come to where he was able to walk away for nothing, history would have been changed.

There were no guarantees that if Maggs has signed an extension say in 2003, that he would have gotten hurt in May 2004.

What I think Rogers was implying by the mention of Robin Ventura is that this has happened in the past, it's happening now and it will continue to happen in the future because that is the organization's 'bottom line' mentality.

And it is killing this franchise.

Lip
I agree with the premise that the Sox need to sign more talented players to longer term contracts, but to even imply that somehow Maggs signing a contract in 2003 would have somehow rippled outward in the universal pond and changed the fate of Maggs and his knee is just plain silly...

To put it another way...

:whoflungpoo

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2004, 12:09 PM
There were no guarantees that if Maggs has signed an extension say in 2003, that he would have gotten hurt in May 2004.

Lip, I know you're smarter than that. To somehow suggest a connection between the collision and subsequent injury and whether or not Maggs was signed is just ludicrous.

Even when healthy, the contract the Sox offered him was fair. He refused to sign - or even to negotiate the issue of deferred money - and then got hurt. Tough break for Maggs.

I'm glad, in retrospect, that Maggs didn't re-sign before he got injured, because now the Sox would be stuck with a player who possibly may never play again or return to form. Would $15 million per year for five years of Juan Gonzalez-like recent production be worth it?

Maggs got the shaft thanks in part to his refusal to sign the contract. The Sox dodged a bullet as far as I am concerned.

Do I wish JR would sell or open the wallet more? Sure. Do I wish he was smarter and hired better baseball people? Absolutely. But I'm glad, given his injury, that the Sox are no longer obligated to pay Maggs anything.

Wealz
12-08-2004, 12:29 PM
Ilsox and PHG great comments.

Do I blame the Sox for not signing Maggs given the nature of his injury...of course not, but I think and I feel Rogers was saying this, that if the Sox had signed him to a deal sometime in the PAST and NOT let it come to where he was able to walk away for nothing, history would have been changed.

There were no guarantees that if Maggs has signed an extension say in 2003, that he would have gotten hurt in May 2004.

What I think Rogers was implying by the mention of Robin Ventura is that this has happened in the past, it's happening now and it will continue to happen in the future because that is the organization's 'bottom line' mentality.

And it is killing this franchise.

Lip
Lip, when all is said and done, I believe Ordonez will have had his best years playing for the White Sox. How that can be portrayed in a negative light confuses me.

maurice
12-08-2004, 12:54 PM
For the lack of an extra year or another million or two a year, they failed to get him re-signed. (teal added)And thank God for that!

KW has tied his own hands with some crappy contracts in the past, but image what a disaster THAT contract would have been. The best thing about this horrible offseason was that Maggs previously turned down the Sox' long-term offer, which surely was significantly larger than whatever he wiill get as a FA. Are you really too dense to recognize this, Phil?!?

Thanks for the memories, Maggs. You were a great player for us, but you really screwed yourself on this one. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.