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Flight #24
12-07-2004, 12:28 AM
Per Boston Gammons ESPN column:

Among the pitchers clubs feel may be non-tendered are Josh Fogg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6770), Scott Schoeneweis (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6171), John Riedling (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6565), Jarrod Washburn (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5995) and Luis Vizcaino (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6291). ... Among the players who could be non-tendered are A.J. Pierzynski (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6109), Shea Hillenbrand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6332), Chris Woodward (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6244), Jay Gibbons (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6635) and Junior Spivey (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6384).
Washburn wouldn't be a bad SP option, and coming off of a bad year might be cheap (although I think I'd rather have Wright). Gibbons wouldnt be a bad RF option and Hillenbrand could be solid 1B/3B insurance, especially if Konerko is dealt.

In other news, apparently senility combined with potent hallucinogens are finally taking their effect on old Boston...
There had been reports in New York that the Barry Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918) "scandal" affected New York's thinking, but the Cubs' front office thinks that is absurd, since Sosa has never been linked to any steroid scandal and last year hit 34 home runs despite missing close to 30 games because of a back injury.
:kneeslap:

santo=dorf
12-07-2004, 12:39 AM
A.J. non-tendered? :?:

AND THE JOSH FOGG?!?!? :o:

:schueler
"I told Kenny not to give him up! But Todd can still be a good pitcher."

FightingBillini
12-07-2004, 12:48 AM
Hmm, I thnk this Scott Schoeneweis guy looks worth a try.

pearso66
12-07-2004, 12:53 AM
I would like to take a shot at Washburn. Isn't he a guy that KW has been salivating over also? Werent there PK for Washburn trade talks last yaer or 2 years ago? or was that another Angels pitcher?

SomebodyToldMe
12-07-2004, 01:26 AM
Feel free to throw things at me, but what does non-tendered mean?

California Sox
12-07-2004, 01:38 AM
Non-tendered means that a player, instead of being offered arbitration, is not "tendered" a qualifying contract offer and therefore becomes a FA.

I like Washburn, but his problem is the big fly. Pitching at the Cell would be a nightmare for him. He needs to go to Detroit or Seattle or Yellowstone. Also, he and Schoenweis are really good friends. That may not help our cause.

jabrch
12-07-2004, 09:59 AM
Josh Fogg? Are you kidding me? This guy was the biggest mistake ever made by KW (ok, second biggest) and now we might be able to get him as a non-tender? Wow...

Either he must suck and KW might not be as stupid as some want us to believe, or the Pirates have no idea what they are missing out on. Since they see him every day, I'd guess the latter. (now salary has a lot to do with it - I know...but the point still stands)

And if SF doesn't tender AJ P, and we could get him for free, I'd still be interested.

Dolanski
12-07-2004, 10:05 AM
Josh Fogg? Are you kidding me? This guy was the biggest mistake ever made by KW (ok, second biggest) and now we might be able to get him as a non-tender? Wow...

Either he must suck and KW might not be as stupid as some want us to believe, or the Pirates have no idea what they are missing out on. Since they see him every day, I'd guess the latter. (now salary has a lot to do with it - I know...but the point still stands)

And if SF doesn't tender AJ P, and we could get him for free, I'd still be interested.

BEWARE THE FOGG!!!

Interpret that how you like...

Wealz
12-07-2004, 10:11 AM
Josh Fogg? Are you kidding me? This guy was the biggest mistake ever made by KW (ok, second biggest) and now we might be able to get him as a non-tender? Wow...

Either he must suck and KW might not be as stupid as some want us to believe, or the Pirates have no idea what they are missing out on. Since they see him every day, I'd guess the latter. (now salary has a lot to do with it - I know...but the point still stands)

And if SF doesn't tender AJ P, and we could get him for free, I'd still be interested.
Williams is an incompetent GM whether Fogg gets non-tendered or not.

Ol' No. 2
12-07-2004, 10:15 AM
Per Boston Gammons ESPN column:


Washburn wouldn't be a bad SP option, and coming off of a bad year might be cheap (although I think I'd rather have Wright). Gibbons wouldnt be a bad RF option and Hillenbrand could be solid 1B/3B insurance, especially if Konerko is dealt.

In other news, apparently senility combined with potent hallucinogens are finally taking their effect on old Boston...

:kneeslap:

If the Sox were to trade Konerko, Hillenbrand might be a nice pickup. He could also slide over to 3B if Crede continues to struggle.

Dolanski
12-07-2004, 10:21 AM
If the Sox were to trade Konerko, Hillenbrand might be a nice pickup. He could also slide over to 3B if Crede continues to struggle.
Hillenbrand? Are you kidding me? Mr. Can't Draw a Walk? No way. He's not even a poor man's Paul Konerko. I would rather watch Joe Crede struggle than have that overrated joker on this team.

stillz
12-07-2004, 10:26 AM
Let's bring back Ventura back. :)

Ol' No. 2
12-07-2004, 10:29 AM
Hillenbrand? Are you kidding me? Mr. Can't Draw a Walk? No way. He's not even a poor man's Paul Konerko. I would rather watch Joe Crede struggle than have that overrated joker on this team.So now walks are the only measure of a baseball player? GMAB. He's a solid .280-.300 hitter with decent pop and plays pretty good D. Overall, nothing spectacular, but still pretty good. Would you rather take your chances with Gload and Crede with no net? Hillenbrand can back up both of them. At worst, he's a pretty good guy to have on the bench.

southsider17
12-07-2004, 10:43 AM
So now walks are the only measure of a baseball player? GMAB. He's a solid .280-.300 hitter with decent pop and plays pretty good D. Overall, nothing spectacular, but still pretty good. Would you rather take your chances with Gload and Crede with no net? Hillenbrand can back up both of them. At worst, he's a pretty good guy to have on the bench.His OBP and SLG are much better than Crede but Crede is a better fielder. Who cares how he gets on base as long as he does. And he does it alot better than Crede.

I think he'd be a great pick-up. Especially if we trade Konerko.

CubKilla
12-07-2004, 10:45 AM
Williams is an incompetent GM whether Fogg gets non-tendered or not.A fact completely lost on the FOKW who still, to this day, somehow rationalize trading 3 pitchers for 1 "innings eater" who could barely get anyone out while in a White Sox uniform and who is having problems getting back into baseball after being let go by KW and the White Sox.

santo=dorf
12-07-2004, 02:54 PM
A fact completely lost on the FOKW who still, to this day, somehow rationalize trading 3 pitchers for 1 "innings eater" who could barely get anyone out while in a White Sox uniform and who is having problems getting back into baseball after being let go by KW and the White Sox.
What do you expect when Schueler is behind a trade? :?:

mweflen
12-07-2004, 04:04 PM
I think we should bring back Josh Fogg. His ERA and record are no worse than Jon Garland, and he costs 1/10 as much. He could be a good rightie setup man with his tricky stuff.

MRKARNO
12-07-2004, 04:13 PM
A fact completely lost on the FOKW who still, to this day, somehow rationalize trading 3 pitchers for 1 "innings eater" who could barely get anyone out while in a White Sox uniform and who is having problems getting back into baseball after being let go by KW and the White Sox.
Most Friends of KW don't bother to rationalize that trade because they know it was one of the worst trades he's made, despite the fact that none of the players involved were all that great. The Friends of KW look past this trade and recognize all of the positive things he's been able to do with JR's payroll restraints. Everyone was against the Gurrier for Marte deal, but who would you rather have now? Signing SHingo, trading for Bartolo, the list goes on. Is he perfect? No, but he's a competent and at least average GM.

southsider17
12-07-2004, 04:23 PM
Most Friends of KW don't bother to rationalize that trade because they know it was one of the worst trades he's made, despite the fact that none of the players involved were all that great. The Friends of KW look past this trade and recognize all of the positive things he's been able to do with JR's payroll restraints. Everyone was against the Gurrier for Marte deal, but who would you rather have now? Signing SHingo, trading for Bartolo, the list goes on. Is he perfect? No, but he's a competent and at least average GM.
Schuler made that trade .... didn't he? :?:

nitetrain8601
12-07-2004, 04:35 PM
"Among the pitchers clubs feel may be non-tendered are Josh Fogg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6770), Scott Schoeneweis (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6171), John Riedling (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6565), Jarrod Washburn (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5995) and Luis Vizcaino (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6291). ... Among the players who could be non-tendered are A.J. Pierzynski (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6109), Shea Hillenbrand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6332), Chris Woodward (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6244), Jay Gibbons (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6635) and Junior Spivey (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6384)."

Since I'm KW and have payroll constraints, this is what I do. Sign Renteria or Wright. Then proceed to sign, Riedling(seems like a KW choice for the bullpen and he does have good stuff, it's just a matter of him hooking up with coop) Shea Hillenbrand, AJ, and Spivey. You could get them for cheap, it gives you lots of depth(remember, these guys will be cheap) they're very low risk and could really work out. Now would they be my first choices to sign, nope, but with KW's payroll budget I would certainly consider this. Spivey could be a nice Util IF(wasn't he an all-star a couple of years ago?).

Dolanski
12-08-2004, 09:56 AM
His OBP and SLG are much better than Crede but Crede is a better fielder. Who cares how he gets on base as long as he does. And he does it alot better than Crede.

I think he'd be a great pick-up. Especially if we trade Konerko.
There is a reason the Red Sox traded him for BK Kim. And there is a reason that the Diamondbacks non-tendered him. That reason is he isn't a good hitter. His numbers are better than Crede's, but Crede is also younger and can still be considered learning. Hillenbrand is as good as he is going to be which is a mediocre starter or platoon player. Subtracting Konerko and adding Hillenbrand is about as good as leaving Ross Gload as your starter.

I can't argue with the numbers vs Crede, but I think Crede has another season to prove he is worth the hype before they can start looking around. Shea had ONE good season at Fenway. ONE. He was a flash in the pan. Forget him.

munchman33
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Rotoworld was reporting that the Tigers may non-tender Alex Sanchez, if they sign another centerfielder. He'd be worth a look.

akingamongstmen
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
If the Sox were to trade Konerko, Hillenbrand might be a nice pickup. He could also slide over to 3B if Crede continues to struggle.I've also heard that the good ol' Milkman is available. I know that he's fallen off a bit, but he had some productive seasons with us off of the bench. Seems like either of these guys could add a little much-needed depth.

wdelaney72
12-08-2004, 10:49 AM
Hillenbrand is a safe pickup.

There's no time to be messing around with these non-tender pitchers, when there are quality FA starting pitchers still left to be signed.

As a somewhat FOKW, I fully admit the Ritchie trade was horrible. I still don't think he's as bad as many make him out to be, but we certainly don't need to rehash this argument. Go ahead and keep firing on Kenny, it seems to make people feel a lot better.