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Hangar18
12-05-2004, 01:31 PM
Isnt it funny how White Sox Fans (who amongst them are some of the
smartest fans in baseball) have been saying for Years and years now
that Sammy and Giambi and Barry were all on the juice?

Just another example of the Media being too lazy to report the news.

And not to pat myself on the back (feel free to pat yourselves on the back too if you also believed) but Why is head Stooge, Bud Selig just NOW saying
hes going to get strict about steroids? (Seriously, now hes gonna be
"STRICT", no more joking around) These clowns KNEW this was going
on all along ......... but somehow thought that Sheeplike baseball fans
would be drawn to the game if they saw more Home Runs. Every single
stinking time I heard the Media or some stupid (they after all are some of the
DUMBEST fans Ive ever met) cub fan try to tell me that Sammy and Big Mac
"Saved" baseball in 1998, I want to puke.

Kind of feels good to know we have known all along ............

Chicago83
12-05-2004, 02:06 PM
That's what really make me mad about the whole issue, why have they waited to break a story that fans have speculated about for years? They should have shored up the whole steroid issue years ago, but now it has become an even bigger problem.

chisox06
12-05-2004, 11:43 PM
Just another example of the Media being too lazy to report the news.
Oh they weren't too lazy, they just refused to do so because of the politics involved. I've tuned out from the media when it comes to things like this, objectivity never applies to any form of media. If you base your beliefs on what the media says, you're a tool. The key is being able to decipher the 92% of BS and form your own opinion. But being totally biased on the other hand is great. :bandance:

Nick@Nite
12-06-2004, 06:51 AM
Just another example of the Media being too lazy to report the news.
Right on :thumbsup: . The media can no longer stick their Barry Bonds-sized domes in the sand because they'll no longer fit.

voodoochile
12-06-2004, 08:21 AM
:tool
"As part of our new 'Get Strict on those who Stick' program, baseball has suspended Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds for 3 months effective immediately. We realize this will be a serious blow to their teams chances of competing early in Spring Training, but we feel it is now or never and the integrity of our sport is too important for these slights to go unpunished."

(turns to someone off camera)

"How was that, Jerry? Did I do it without my face cracking? I could feel the corners of my lips starting to turn up as I was saying it, did it show?"

:reinsy
"No, that was great, Bud. There's a reason we picked you for this job - you've got that perpetual 'I'm concerned' look on your face and it makes the fans think we really care about something other than money."

:tool
"Hey, I do care about something other than money - now that I have my revenue sharing check that is. I'm concerned about whether I should buy one new Rolls or two. That $1B discretionary fund won't last forever you know..."

Dolanski
12-06-2004, 09:15 AM
Right on :thumbsup: . The media can no longer stick their Barry Bonds-sized domes in the sand because they'll no longer fit.
Eh, I think the issue is a bit more complex than that. They can't outright call someone out as being a steroid user without some evidence, and by some evidence I mean more than a bigger body and head. If you are a columnist and you call someone out as a steroid user without proof, you put yourself on the line for liable (or is that slander? I can never remember) as well as put your journalistic integrity on the line. What if you accuse someone and it turns out they didn't do anything illegal? There goes your career.

For that matter, if you are throwing around accusations at players that are unfounded, how difficult is that going to make your job? No player would want to talk to you, nor would the front office. It's too easy to just say, the media was lazy. Like any other job, there are politics and glad handing that must be done. You can just run around like a bull in a china shop.

And to their credit, there have been several columns over the past few years questioning players. Ken Rosenthal (Sporting News) said in a column last spring that any players reporting to camp as having lost weight to "limber up" was a code word for they were off the juice. Rick Reilly asked Sosa to take a drug test and back up his statements to the media. Heck, I want to say that even Mariotti called Sosa out.

This issue is a lot more complex than just lazy media and lying players. Its all politics and everyone has to play the game.

Foulke29
12-06-2004, 09:30 AM
you put yourself on the line for liable (or is that slander? I can never remember) as well as put your journalistic integrity on the line.

Liable is in print, and slander is spoken.

I hear what you're saying about calling people out, but back in the day, our reporters did something called investigative journalism. That seems to no longer exist.

Remember, it was the press that busted out the 1919 White Sox. They just made sure they had sources and facts to back up what they're saying.

Here's why the press never challenged any ballplayers - Giambi was part of the baseball dynasty that's been to the post season every year for the past ten years. Bonds, like him or hate him, was doing things no other ball player had done and that's good for media, because papers and advertising sells better. And fnially, let's not forget Sosa - owned by the Chicago Tribune - 'nuff said!

mweflen
12-06-2004, 09:55 AM
libel is prented slander. liable is a form of 'liability.'

spellchecker won't catch that, 'cause it's a word. :smile:

jabrch
12-06-2004, 09:57 AM
Libel and Slander laws prohibit print and tv/radio media from taking certain risks. While they could justify it be dancing around the wording, the media companies choose to not get involved in that game. In other cases, networks (ESPN/FOX) are complicit because of how much they benefit from MLB.

jabrch
12-06-2004, 09:58 AM
libel is prented slander. liable is a form of 'liability.'

spellchecker won't catch that, 'cause it's a word. :smile:
spellchecker didn't catch "prented" either, huh? :smile:

Nick@Nite
12-06-2004, 10:13 AM
Eh, I think the issue is a bit more complex than that. They can't outright call someone out as being a steroid user without some evidence, and by some evidence I mean more than a bigger body and head. If you are a columnist and you call someone out as a steroid user without proof, you put yourself on the line for liable (or is that slander? I can never remember) as well as put your journalistic integrity on the line. What if you accuse someone and it turns out they didn't do anything illegal? There goes your career.

For that matter, if you are throwing around accusations at players that are unfounded, how difficult is that going to make your job? No player would want to talk to you, nor would the front office. It's too easy to just say, the media was lazy. Like any other job, there are politics and glad handing that must be done. You can just run around like a bull in a china shop.

And to their credit, there have been several columns over the past few years questioning players. Ken Rosenthal (Sporting News) said in a column last spring that any players reporting to camp as having lost weight to "limber up" was a code word for they were off the juice. Rick Reilly asked Sosa to take a drug test and back up his statements to the media. Heck, I want to say that even Mariotti called Sosa out.

This issue is a lot more complex than just lazy media and lying players. Its all politics and everyone has to play the game.Last week on AM radio, Jim Rome blasted Bonds and his "I thought it was flaxseed oil" excuse, citing his hat size going from a size 7 to the size 10-range.

Rome went on to say that by all accounts, Barry Bonds is a meticulously detail-oriented personality who controls every aspect of his nutrition and workout regimen. He also went on to say that if someone is to believe the flaxseed oil line, then you'd have to believe that Bonds didn't ask his trainer what exactly he was putting into his body. That had to be one of the all-time great conversations that never happened.

Trainer Greg Anderson to Barry Bonds: "here, put these "clear" drops under your tongue and rub this "cream" on your butt.

Two months later...

Bonds to trainer: "hey, my hat doesn't fit on my head anymore and my benchpress has gone up 200%!"

Trainer to Bonds: "just shut up Barry and put more of these "clear" drops under your tongue. And while we're at it, rub some more of this "cream" on your butt, and don't ask me any questions!"

Dolanski
12-06-2004, 11:11 AM
Last week on AM radio, Jim Rome blasted Bonds and his "I thought it was flaxseed oil" excuse, citing his hat size going from a size 7 to the size 10-range.

Rome went on to say that by all accounts, Barry Bonds is a meticulously detail-oriented personality who controls every aspect of his nutrition and workout regimen. He also went on to say that if someone is to believe the flaxseed oil line, then you'd have to believe that Bonds didn't ask his trainer what exactly he was putting into his body. That had to be one of the all-time great conversations that never happened.

Trainer Greg Anderson to Barry Bonds: "here, put these "clear" drops under your tongue and rub this "cream" on your butt.

Two months later...

Bonds to trainer: "hey, my hat doesn't fit on my head anymore and my benchpress has gone up 200%!"

Trainer to Bonds: "just shut up Barry and put more of these "clear" drops under your tongue. And while we're at it, rub some more of this "cream" on your butt, and don't ask me any questions!"
Sadly, that is that is the best response we will ever get out of Bonds. It will not be like Giambi, who must not have bothered to talk to his attorney before going into those hearings and spilled his guts. All we are going to get from Barry is misdirections and I didn't know any better. Like any intelligent person, I know you can dry that one out and fertilize the lawn.

From what Sheffield said about Bonds and training with him (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1895380), he was a control freak who barked orders at everyone around him, including Sheffield. Gary may be a jerk but at least his story about his experiences with Barry seemed genuine (he does throw himself under the bus a bit). Now, if what he said is true about Barry, then there is no way possible he doesn't know what is going on. And, if Barry were really given steroids unbeknownst to himself, wouldn't he be livid at Greg Andersen and be suing him or calling him out for jeopardizing his health and his career?

Besides, man, HE STOLE GARY'S PERSONAL CHEF!!! What an a-hole.

SOXSINCE'70
12-06-2004, 12:13 PM
:tool
"As part of our new 'Get Strict on those who Stick' program, baseball has suspended Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds for 3 months effective immediately. We realize this will be a serious blow to their teams chances of competing early in Spring Training, but we feel it is now or never and the integrity of our sport is too important for these slights to go unpunished."

(turns to someone off camera)

"How was that, Jerry? Did I do it without my face cracking? I could feel the corners of my lips starting to turn up as I was saying it, did it show?"

:reinsy
"No, that was great, Bud. There's a reason we picked you for this job - you've got that perpetual 'I'm concerned' look on your face and it makes the fans think we really care about something other than money."

:tool
"Hey, I do care about something other than money - now that I have my revenue sharing check that is. I'm concerned about whether I should buy one new Rolls or two. That $1B discretionary fund won't last forever you know..."
You've got a point.Jerry is the ventriliquist,Pud Selig was
hired to do the dirty work.I wonder if Reinsdorf can talk
and drink a glass of water at the same time.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jabrch
12-06-2004, 12:31 PM
Sadly, that is that is the best response we will ever get out of Bonds. It will not be like Giambi, who must not have bothered to talk to his attorney before going into those hearings and spilled his guts. All we are going to get from Barry is misdirections and I didn't know any better. Like any intelligent person, I know you can dry that one out and fertilize the lawn.

Or he did talk to his attorney who told him not to purjure himself if he knows evidence is out there that will come out eventually, because prisons are not kind to attractive young men like the Giambi brothers...

Dolanski
12-06-2004, 01:50 PM
Or he did talk to his attorney who told him not to purjure himself if he knows evidence is out there that will come out eventually, because prisons are not kind to attractive young men like the Giambi brothers...
Prison bitch vs. baseball pariah...hmm, sounds like a no win situation to me.
I would be surprised if Giambi finds another job after the Yankees get rid of him. As far as prison goes, this is America...you don't go to jail if you are rich and famous, you just hire Johnny Cochran.

But if you are looking for some justice in this insanity, this is how I hope to see it go down for Barry Bonds:

You play baseball, you get to live every young boy's dream. Part of that dream is being a famous HOF baseball player, loved by legions of fans, respected, debated in the annuls of baseball lore, comparing you to the other greats...BUT, everyone knows you cheated, you did steroids. When you are inducted (and even that is debatable since the baseball writers vote you in), you are booed heavily. You are the one of the most hated men in the baseball world along with Pete Rose, and even he gets more credit. Everything about your legacy is tainted. You are forever linked to steroids. No matter what the debate is about your place in baseball history, it will always come with a caveat that you cheated. Your legacy is that of a cautionary tale. Everything you accomplished will be asterisked, if not by the Hall, then in the minds of the fans.

Hangar18
12-06-2004, 01:51 PM
Libel and Slander laws prohibit print and tv/radio media from taking certain risks. While they could justify it be dancing around the wording, the media companies choose to not get involved in that game. In other cases, networks (ESPN/FOX) are complicit because of how much they benefit from MLB.
So can the TRIB be SUED for lying to countless millions for years, telling us
how "great" the Urinal is? Can FOX be SUED for telling us how Mac and Sammy "Saved" baseball back in 98?

Nick@Nite
12-06-2004, 02:28 PM
Sadly, that is that is the best response we will ever get out of Bonds. It will not be like Giambi, who must not have bothered to talk to his attorney before going into those hearings and spilled his guts. All we are going to get from Barry is misdirections and I didn't know any better. Like any intelligent person, I know you can dry that one out and fertilize the lawn.

From what Sheffield said about Bonds and training with him (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1895380), he was a control freak who barked orders at everyone around him, including Sheffield. Gary may be a jerk but at least his story about his experiences with Barry seemed genuine (he does throw himself under the bus a bit). Now, if what he said is true about Barry, then there is no way possible he doesn't know what is going on. And, if Barry were really given steroids unbeknownst to himself, wouldn't he be livid at Greg Andersen and be suing him or calling him out for jeopardizing his health and his career?

Besides, man, HE STOLE GARY'S PERSONAL CHEF!!! What an a-hole.I agree.

Also, by supposedly not asking his trainer what the stuff was, Bonds didn't want to know. And not wanting to know means he already knew.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2004, 02:32 PM
I agree.

Also, by supposedly not asking his trainer what the stuff was, Bonds didn't want to know. And not wanting to know means he already knew.Whether he knew or not is completely irrelevant. I no sport where there's drug testing (that would be all of them) does it make any difference whether you knew what you were taking. Remember Jim Miller? It's your responsibility to make sure what you're taking is legal.

Nick@Nite
12-06-2004, 02:38 PM
It's your responsibility to make sure what you're taking is legal.
That's what I meant. :)

SOXPHILE
12-06-2004, 10:05 PM
I could never stand it either, whenever people would say things like "Sosa & McGuire 'saved' baseball". That's an ignorant statement. No individual, especially Sosa, saved baseball. First of all, I don't think baseball needed to be "saved". It regained much of it's popularity that was lost due to the strike in '94. But I think the reason was the game itself. Baseball became more popular again because it's baseball. People love it, it's the national pastime. We love watching it throughout the spring and summer, and we love the drama of the pennant races in the fall, we love talking, debating and arguing endless catagories about players, stats, games, etc. Baseball is too big & engrained in our culture for any individual player to "save". That said, I'm sure that Sammy Sosa, being the honest, stand up guy that he is, will soon come forward to show that he doesn't think that he's bigger than the game and take a urine test, proving once and for all that he's never taken steroids, and that he achieved his current physical appearance through proper diet, regimen and weight training.