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FarWestChicago
12-03-2004, 12:48 PM
On the way to work I heard an interview with Ted Robinson, ex-Gain't and current Mets announcer. He was talking about things players have told him over the last few years. He has been told 'roid use is rampant among pitchers. He wouldn't name names, but one guy mentioned a pitcher who had lost 20 pounds and 5 miles on his heater when he went off the juice. Ted suggested those enjoying speculating about this stuff start looking for pitchers who suddenly lost 4-5 MPH on their fastballs. Sound like anybody we know? http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/whistle.gif

Brian26
12-03-2004, 12:53 PM
On the way to work I heard an interview with Ted Robinson, ex-Gain't and current Mets announcer. He was talking about things players have told him over the last few years. He has been told 'roid use is rampant among pitchers. He wouldn't name names, but one guy mentioned a pitcher who had lost 20 pounds and 5 miles on his heater when he went off the juice. Ted suggested those enjoying speculating about this stuff start looking for pitchers who suddenly lost 4-5 MPH on their fastballs. Sound like anybody we know? http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/whistle.gif

Koch?

FarWestChicago
12-03-2004, 12:58 PM
Koch?Keep going. I was thinking of another ex-Sox pitcher.

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 12:58 PM
On the way to work I heard an interview with Ted Robinson, ex-Gain't and current Mets announcer. He was talking about things players have told him over the last few years. He has been told 'roid use is rampant among pitchers. He wouldn't name names, but one guy mentioned a pitcher who had lost 20 pounds and 5 miles on his heater when he went off the juice. Ted suggested those enjoying speculating about this stuff start looking for pitchers who suddenly lost 4-5 MPH on their fastballs. Sound like anybody we know? http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/whistle.gifI've said this before. Furthermore, I think Beane knew about it and also knew that his production would decline the following year when testing kicked in. Why else would you trade a guy who had 44 saves for a pitcher who seemed to have lost it and was making MORE money?

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 12:59 PM
Keep going. I was thinking of another ex-Sox pitcher.One whose whereabouts have been debated in another thread?

whitesoxwilkes
12-03-2004, 01:00 PM
Keep going. I was thinking of another ex-Sox pitcher.
I'm hoping you're not alluding to Loaiza, because I'm buff in comparison to him.

Jabroni
12-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Koch - probably.
Loaiza - doubt it.

santo=dorf
12-03-2004, 01:05 PM
Jose Canseco pitched in a game. :tongue:

Risk
12-03-2004, 01:06 PM
Loiaza-I don't thing so...That guy is a string bean compared to some other pitchers in the league (Pavano, etc. etc.)


Risk

ja1022
12-03-2004, 01:07 PM
One whose whereabouts have been debated in another thread?
Wunsch.

kittle42
12-03-2004, 01:11 PM
Beer belly Koch was not on steroids - he just sucked.

Loaiza? Um, no.

Wunsch? :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 01:12 PM
Wunsch.Sure has been hurt a lot lately, hasn't he? I wonder why that is?

Huisj
12-03-2004, 01:13 PM
Wunsch.
he harldly threw 85 before he was hurt. i wouldn't suspect him for roid use. I would suspect his funky motion for making him have shoulder surgery, and I would suspect shoulder surgury as the cause for losing more velocity.

santo=dorf
12-03-2004, 01:14 PM
Sure has been hurt a lot lately, hasn't he? I wonder why that is?
Because KW is an idiot and should be fired because Wunsch could've done a better job than Jackson or Koch in 2004 but KW got mad at him and wouldn't call him up despite his numbers in AAA blah blah blah........:rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
12-03-2004, 01:24 PM
Average. World Class. Average. If you do that in an Olypmic sport people are screaming 'roids immediately. And so far, they have been right most of the time. Most of the guilty men and women didn't look like body builders. It wouldn't benefit a pitcher to have a Shamroids physique. Just things to think about. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 01:27 PM
Average. World Class. Average. If you do that in an Olypmic sport people are screaming 'roids immediately. And so far, they have been right most of the time. Most of the guilty men and women didn't look like body builders. It wouldn't benefit a pitcher to have a Shamroids physique. Just things to think about. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gifIf you're referring to Loaiza, I think there are other factors that could explain his sudden improvement/decline. Developing a new pitch, especially when it's used effectively, can have a big impact, but once you go around the league a few times and everybody's seen it, it loses its effectiveness. I think that's what happened with Loaiza. That cutter was devastating - for a while.

Paulwny
12-03-2004, 01:32 PM
If you're referring to Loaiza, I think there are other factors that could explain his sudden improvement/decline. Developing a new pitch, especially when it's used effectively, can have a big impact, but once you go around the league a few times and everybody's seen it, it loses its effectiveness. I think that's what happened with Loaiza. That cutter was devastating - for a while.
I agree with "few times around the league" however in 03 Loaiza was at 92-94 mph, this year every pitch was 86-89 mph.

Tekijawa
12-03-2004, 01:34 PM
Alex Fernandez? Oh wait he put on 50 pounds and lost about 4-5 years on his pitching Career.

Foulke You
12-03-2004, 01:37 PM
I agree with "few times around the league" however in 03 Loaiza was at 92-94 mph, this year every pitch was 86-89 mph.
Yes, but if you look at Loaiza physically, he looked no different to me in 2004 as he did in 2003. He didn't suddenly show up to Spring Training looking 25 lbs lighter.

On a different note, the Koch speculation cracks me up. I mean, look at the guy! He is a string bean and has been his whole career. He looks 150lbs soaking wet! I don't look at Koch and think "that guy was juicing!". In my mind, years of throwing a 100mph heater just caught up with Billy Boy and now he just doesn't have the velocity to blow past hitters anymore.

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 01:40 PM
I agree with "few times around the league" however in 03 Loaiza was at 92-94 mph, this year every pitch was 86-89 mph.To steal the title from another thread, this is "The Saddest Thing About the 'roid Scandal". Every player is guilty by association. People are going to continue to speculate about this guy and that guy. When it hits the fan, it gets on everybody. And this is only the beginning. I'm afraid it's going to get worse. A LOT worse.

And the worst part is that everybody could see this coming, but neither the owners nor the players did anything about it.

Paulwny
12-03-2004, 01:46 PM
To steal the title from another thread, this is "The Saddest Thing About the 'roid Scandal". Every player is guilty by association. People are going to continue to speculate about this guy and that guy. When it hits the fan, it gets on everybody. And this is only the beginning. I'm afraid it's going to get worse. A LOT worse.

And the worst part is that everybody could see this coming, but neither the owners nor the players did anything about it.
Agree, it's time for the "clean players", if there are enough of them, to come together and demand that their union allow them to vote for a stronger drug policy. This would show the fans that they're also fed up with this situation.

voodoochile
12-03-2004, 01:57 PM
Agree, it's time for the "clean players", if there are enough of them, to come together and demand that their union allow them to vote for a stronger drug policy. This would show the fans that they're also fed up with this situation.
I can see it now...

:hitless
"We want better testing."

:versatile
"I got your back, Royce. Man if only the field were more level, I would be an All-Star - after all, I'm versatile."

:jon
"Do they make brain steroids? Um... I mean... I'm with you guys."

:butter :rauch
"Can we come back? We'll juice or shoot or whatever you want, just give us another chance."

:hurt
"This is the company I am keeping?

:bigklu
"I got your back, Frank."

:luis&nell
"Us too, big man..."

Iwritecode
12-03-2004, 02:41 PM
I can see it now...

:hitless
"We want better testing."

:versatile
"I got your back, Royce. Man if only the field were more level, I would be an All-Star - after all, I'm versatile."

:jon
"Do they make brain steroids? Um... I mean... I'm with you guys."

:butter :rauch
"Can we come back? We'll juice or shoot or whatever you want, just give us another chance."

:hurt
"This is the company I am keeping?

:bigklu
"I got your back, Frank."

:luis&nell
"Us too, big man..."

Some people on this site like using tags way too much. :tongue:

Get a job ya bum!

:)

ja1022
12-03-2004, 03:06 PM
On a different note, the Koch speculation cracks me up. I mean, look at the guy! He is a string bean and has been his whole career. He looks 150lbs soaking wet! I don't look at Koch and think "that guy was juicing!". In my mind, years of throwing a 100mph heater just caught up with Billy Boy and now he just doesn't have the velocity to blow past hitters anymore.Agreed. Bobby Thigpen is a perfect example of another hard throwing reliever who's arm simply wore out.

I agree with the others that it sucks that alot of "clean" players are going to be implicated now, but that being said, it makes you wonder about guys like Percival, Wagner or even Gagne.

Randar68
12-03-2004, 03:42 PM
I agree with "few times around the league" however in 03 Loaiza was at 92-94 mph, this year every pitch was 86-89 mph.
Loaiza threw that hard his whole career. But throwing up in the zone too often and not having a cutter was the difference then as compared to 2003