PDA

View Full Version : Since KW Likes Risks...


FGarcia34
12-02-2004, 10:12 PM
On the chicagosports.com site, there was a column written about how KW should take the risk and offer Maggs arbitration. I found it very intriguing because of all the possible scenario's that could happen, only one would seriously damage the South Siders...which could be a very likely situation. I mean, think about it...If KW offers him arbitration and he signs a contract else where, the Sox are able to pick up some draft picks and stock pile some talent in the minor league circuits. If he accepts the contract with the Sox, he could have a monster year like he usually does. He is definitely worth taking the risk over players like RJ, Hidalgo, Drew and Dye. If the Sox fall out of contention, they could just simply trade him away and stock pile talent for the future. Worst case scenarios is that Maggs gets hurt again for the season or his continuously on the injured list...I mean, even if he has a subpar season, its still going to be comparable to players like Hidalgo and Dye...and Im willing to put my money of Maggs that he will come back and be just as good as he was before. This is just something the Sox should think about and possibly pursue. I think it would be very beneficial for the Sox to make this move simply because it opens up so many options.

SEALgep
12-02-2004, 10:19 PM
I have a feeling he would decline, and sign elsewhere, earning us a pick.

chisoxmike
12-02-2004, 10:21 PM
The column is actually something called "A View From the Fan." A fellow sox fan submitted the article to chicagosports.com.

Regardless, Maggs isn't coming back. Not a bad idea though. But I give it a 9% chance of him coming back.

Unregistered
12-02-2004, 10:23 PM
On the chicagosports.com site, there was a column written about how KW should take the risk and offer Maggs arbitration. I found it very intriguing because of all the possible scenario's that could happen, only one would seriously damage the South Siders...which could be a very likely situation. I mean, think about it...If KW offers him arbitration and he signs a contract else where, the Sox are able to pick up some draft picks and stock pile some talent in the minor league circuits. If he accepts the contract with the Sox, he could have a monster year like he usually does. He is definitely worth taking the risk over players like RJ, Hidalgo, Drew and Dye. If the Sox fall out of contention, they could just simply trade him away and stock pile talent for the future. Worst case scenarios is that Maggs gets hurt again for the season or his continuously on the injured list...I mean, even if he has a subpar season, its still going to be comparable to players like Hidalgo and Dye...and Im willing to put my money of Maggs that he will come back and be just as good as he was before. This is just something the Sox should think about and possibly pursue. I think it would be very beneficial for the Sox to make this move simply because it opens up so many options. I think worst case scenerio is that Maggs accepts arbitration and can't play because he's injured. If he accepts arbitration and never plays an inning for the Sox next year due to injury, is he still owed the $12 mil or so that he would be due?

ilsox7
12-02-2004, 10:28 PM
Just curious, but if he accepts arbitration, wouldn't it make sense that the person actually deciding which side wins demand to see medical records in order to appropriately decide the case?

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 10:30 PM
Just curious, but if he accepts arbitration, wouldn't it make sense that the person actually deciding which side wins demand to see medical records in order to appropriately decide the case?
Yes. But his choice will be to select the Sox offer or Maggs offer. The Sox offer is limited to a minimum of 80% of his previous year's salary. Thus if the arbitrator says "Hey - Maggs can't ever play again", his minimum would be about $11mil

ilsox7
12-02-2004, 10:32 PM
Yes. But his choice will be to select the Sox offer or Maggs offer. The Sox offer is limited to a minimum of 80% of his previous year's salary. Thus if the arbitrator says "Hey - Maggs can't ever play again", his minimum would be about $11mil
Good point. Quite the sticky situation. I wouldn't blame KW either way.

pearso66
12-02-2004, 11:00 PM
Yes. But his choice will be to select the Sox offer or Maggs offer. The Sox offer is limited to a minimum of 80% of his previous year's salary. Thus if the arbitrator says "Hey - Maggs can't ever play again", his minimum would be about $11mil
Now could the Sox be able to get insurance on that 1 year contract, or because he is already hurt, insurance would be impossible to get?

munchman33
12-03-2004, 06:50 AM
I think worst case scenerio is that Maggs accepts arbitration and can't play because he's injured. If he accepts arbitration and never plays an inning for the Sox next year due to injury, is he still owed the $12 mil or so that he would be due?
Yes. And it would probably be more than $12 million.

Now could the Sox be able to get insurance on that 1 year contract, or because he is already hurt, insurance would be impossible to get?
If you were an insurance company, would you insure him? In recent years, companies have been in the habit of insuring everything that wasn't previously injured. The fact that he's still injured might void his eligibility all together.

munchman33
12-03-2004, 06:52 AM
If he accepts the contract with the Sox, he could have a monster year like he usually does.
Maggs had an injured year that was preceded by a down year. In fact, it was only down because of his one "monster" year. He's consistly a good hitter, but not consistantly a "monster" hitter.

SOXSINCE'70
12-03-2004, 07:03 AM
I give it a 9% chance of him coming back.You're an optimist,Mike.Remember what Horace Grant said before
he bacame a free agent and left the Bulls for the Magic in 1994??

"There's 2 chances of me resigning with the Bulls;slim and none
and slim just walked out the door".

10 years later,that quote could apply to Magglio Ordonez's
chances of coming back to the south side.With his "ouchy"
back and surgically repaired knee,i'm not sure i'd want
him on the South Side.:(:

soxtalker
12-03-2004, 08:05 AM
Just curious, but if he accepts arbitration, wouldn't it make sense that the person actually deciding which side wins demand to see medical records in order to appropriately decide the case?
I thought that I read (a couple of months ago on this board) that the arbitrator can NOT use injury records in deciding the amount.

munchman33
12-03-2004, 08:48 AM
I thought that I read (a couple of months ago on this board) that the arbitrator can NOT use injury records in deciding the amount.
That's not true.

But, the real problem is the arbitrator can't come up with an amount of his own. Both sides submit a salary figure, and the arbitrator must choose the most appropriate. So if the Sox pick an amount appropriate for someone that's high risk, say $5 million, and Boras says $15, the arbitrator must chose one of those figures. There's no in between. That is so not worth the risk.

Flight #24
12-03-2004, 09:12 AM
That's not true.

But, the real problem is the arbitrator can't come up with an amount of his own. Both sides submit a salary figure, and the arbitrator must choose the most appropriate. So if the Sox pick an amount appropriate for someone that's high risk, say $5 million, and Boras says $15, the arbitrator must chose one of those figures. There's no in between. That is so not worth the risk.
Sox also can't submit an offer less than 80% of last year's salary. 80% * 14mil = 11.2mil.

Regardless of which the arbitrator chooses between 11.2 & 15mil, it's too much if he's not 100%.

Rocky Soprano
12-03-2004, 09:14 AM
I still say take the risk. There is a PRETTY good chance that he doesnt accept the arbitration offer. At least we would get something for him leaving.


DO IT!

jshanahanjr
12-03-2004, 09:22 AM
Do the Sox have to wait until May to try and sign Maggs if they don't offer him arbitration?

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 09:23 AM
From the Uniform Player's Contract:

Condition
4.(b) The Player represents that he has no physical or mental defects known to him and unknown to the appropriate representative of the Club which would prevent or impair performance of his services.
Sounds to me like the Sox would have grounds for voiding the contract if Maggs couldn't play. They'd have to prove that he knew about it beforehand, but that shouldn't be too hard.

striker60657
12-03-2004, 09:25 AM
Screw Maggs. Boras wouldn't even let us look at his knee. He just tells us he is fine and that teams could watch him workout. That sounds a little fishy for me especially for a $14 million dollar investment. I'm gonna hate to see Maggs go just like the rest of you but we really need pitching. Good pitching will always keep you in games.

munchman33
12-03-2004, 09:29 AM
Sounds to me like the Sox would have grounds for voiding the contract if Maggs couldn't play. They'd have to prove that he knew about it beforehand, but that shouldn't be too hard.
Yeah, and there's no way the strike is ending without a salary cap. The player's union can do anything they want. If the NBA players union was half as twisted as the one in the MLB, Ron Artest would already be playing again.

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 09:55 AM
Yeah, and there's no way the strike is ending without a salary cap. The player's union can do anything they want. If the NBA players union was half as twisted as the one in the MLB, Ron Artest would already be playing again.The MLBPA has no real say in the matter. He violated the contract. They could file a grievance, but I can't conceive how an arbitrator would rule in their favor, provided there was sufficient proof that he knew ahead of time.

soxtalker
12-03-2004, 11:18 AM
From the Uniform Player's Contract:


Sounds to me like the Sox would have grounds for voiding the contract if Maggs couldn't play. They'd have to prove that he knew about it beforehand, but that shouldn't be too hard.

That presents an interesting argument, though probably not clear-cut, considering the flap about Maggs/Boras not letting the Sox see the latest results of medical tests. It would be worthwhile hearing the opinions of any attorneys on the board.

hold2dibber
12-03-2004, 12:31 PM
From the Uniform Player's Contract:




Sounds to me like the Sox would have grounds for voiding the contract if Maggs couldn't play. They'd have to prove that he knew about it beforehand, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Wouldn't work - the clause refers to a condition that the player knows about but the club doesn't know about; the Sox know he hurt his knee, know he went to Austria for surgery, etc. There's no way they could claim they didn't know.

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 12:39 PM
[/left]



Wouldn't work - the clause refers to a condition that the player knows about but the club doesn't know about; the Sox know he hurt his knee, know he went to Austria for surgery, etc. There's no way they could claim they didn't know.
As far as the Sox know, all he had was a meniscus tear and bone marrow edema. Those conditions should not prevent him from playing in 2005. If he had any further complications that he knew about and hid, that would seem to qualify as grounds for voiding the contract.