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View Full Version : Joe Crede's swing flaw


Jjav829
12-02-2004, 09:33 AM
Joe Cowley has an interesting piece in today's Daily Southtown about Joe Crede's swing flaw. It's worth a read. It gives an idea of what Joe Crede went through last year, and what he and Walker have done/are doing to improve Crede's swing. A few excerpts:

"We addressed what the flaw was," Crede said. "Now it's just a matter of putting it in action on the field. What it all leads down to is the (back) knee was basically causing a long swing. The whole swing process gets complicated, but it basically is trying to get a short swing up there on a consistent basis, which is a lot easier said than done.""You say, 'Why doesn't he quit if he knows it's a flaw?' Well, that's the way he's always hit," Walker said. "Well then the question is, 'How's he always hit?' Well he always hit because maybe the pitching wasn't as good (in the minors) or he had confidence. I think you can hit with a mechanical flaw if you have a lot of confidence. When that confidence goes, that mechanical flaw becomes even worse.I still stand behind my belief that Crede will have a Konerko-esque turn around next year. I'm not saying he's going to hit 40 HR's, but I think that he'll hit much higher than .239/.299/.418/.717 next year.

guillen4life13
12-02-2004, 10:00 AM
Joe Cowley has an interesting piece in today's Daily Southtown about Joe Crede's swing flaw. It's worth a read. It gives an idea of what Joe Crede went through last year, and what he and Walker have done/are doing to improve Crede's swing. A few excerpts:

I still stand behind my belief that Crede will have a Konerko-esque turn around next year. I'm not saying he's going to hit 40 HR's, but I think that he'll hit much higher than .239/.299/.418/.717 next year.
I agree. Everyone is tossing around trade ideas involving Crede, and I want nothing of it.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 10:10 AM
Joe Cowley has an interesting piece in today's Daily Southtown about Joe Crede's swing flaw. It's worth a read. It gives an idea of what Joe Crede went through last year, and what he and Walker have done/are doing to improve Crede's swing. A few excerpts:

I still stand behind my belief that Crede will have a Konerko-esque turn around next year. I'm not saying he's going to hit 40 HR's, but I think that he'll hit much higher than .239/.299/.418/.717 next year.I recall talking with Walker at last year's SoxFest about Konerko. What he said was something along the lines of:

These guys are all tremendously talented, and up through the minor leagues, most can get by on talent alone. They learn to hit by feel, and just keep doing what works. When it doesn't work anymore, whether it's because they've developed a bad habit or because they've risen to a level where the competition is better, they don't have any tools to solve the problem. They just keep trying to do what feels right, and wind up reinforcing what isn't working. They need someone with an analytic approach to completely break down their swing and re-teach it. But they naturally resist because at first it feels wrong. It takes time to un-learn the wrong way and re-learn the right way.

Sounds like he's taken the same approach with Crede. I like what Walker's done with these guys. They'd better not let him get away.

PaulDrake
12-02-2004, 10:50 AM
I also agree. Crede is not a Borchard who has shown almost nothing but futility at the plate. He's had some success and he is definitely salvageable. I have confidence he can rebound.

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 11:21 AM
I also agree. Crede is not a Borchard who has shown almost nothing but futility at the plate. He's had some success and he is definitely salvageable. I have confidence he can rebound.
Yes, Joe Borchard's 286 ABs at the major league level have proven that he is not "salveagable".:?:

wdelaney72
12-02-2004, 12:20 PM
I agree, Crede HAS shown big signs of potential. Borchard has not.

It's possible for Joe to turn it around, but I'll believe it when it happens. Since we have no other option at 3B for 2005, I hope he can do this next year.

iwannago
12-02-2004, 01:55 PM
Borchard has not shown any improvement, I think he's getting worse. Why can't Walker do something with him? Borchard has too much potenial to be cast away.

SoxFanTillDeath
12-02-2004, 02:49 PM
Yes, Joe Borchard's 286 ABs at the major league level have proven that he is not "salveagable".:?:

Of course it does. Ask Billy Beane! Remember, if the guy doesn't hit .300 and draw 100 walks in his first full year in the league than he is a bust...

PaulDrake
12-02-2004, 03:48 PM
Yes, Joe Borchard's 286 ABs at the major league level have proven that he is not "salveagable".:?: Oh please don't start that again. I hope he proves me wrong because he plays for my team, but Borchard makes Dave Nicholson look great in comparison.

Jerome
12-02-2004, 04:02 PM
Joe Cowley has an interesting piece in today's Daily Southtown about Joe Crede's swing flaw. It's worth a read. It gives an idea of what Joe Crede went through last year, and what he and Walker have done/are doing to improve Crede's swing. A few excerpts:

I still stand behind my belief that Crede will have a Konerko-esque turn around next year. I'm not saying he's going to hit 40 HR's, but I think that he'll hit much higher than .239/.299/.418/.717 next year.
Why was he such a highly regarded prospect if "the way he's always hit" wasn't really the right way? Wouldn't those kinds of things throw up a red flag?

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 04:12 PM
Why was he such a highly regarded prospect if "the way he's always hit" wasn't really the right way? Wouldn't those kinds of things throw up a red flag?I think you'd find that most prospects come up the same way. You don't have to think about it for too long before you realize it makes a lot more sense to do what Walker's doing with these guys when they're in A ball and haven't ingrained bad habits, but that's the way it is. FWIW, I heard Walker talking about how the mechanics of the baseball swing are just beginning to be examined, analyzed and understood in detail, and that it's not nearly so far along as in golf, for example. Any duffer can go to a number of places to have a computer analysis of his golf swing, but that's just recently being done extensively in baseball.

Blueprint1
12-02-2004, 04:55 PM
I heard from a source that Crede was so upset that Credes crew was not around last season that he coudnt hit.

bc2k
12-02-2004, 10:19 PM
I do not have confidence that Crede will develop a short swing and become a useful player. Joe Crede is a timid and feeble man.

Daver
12-02-2004, 10:22 PM
I have very little confidence in Greg Walker actually being able to help anyone at the MLB level.

RKMeibalane
12-02-2004, 10:23 PM
Why was he such a highly regarded prospect if "the way he's always hit" wasn't really the right way? Wouldn't those kinds of things throw up a red flag? Flaws aren't always noticeable if a particular player is putting up huge numbers. For example, the fact that Sammy Sosa can't play defense wasn't a big deal to the media a few seasons ago. Most people didn't even realize it was a problem. Now, every aspect of his game has been torn apart (and rightfully so).

RKMeibalane
12-02-2004, 10:26 PM
I have very little confidence in Greg Walker actually being able to help anyone at the MLB level.
Why is that?

RKMeibalane
12-02-2004, 10:28 PM
Joe Crede is a timid and feeble man.
Let's try to avoid personal attacks. I agree that Crede has been a mediocre baseball player, but I don't think it's necessary to insult him as a person. Your grudge against him is showing.

Daver
12-02-2004, 10:35 PM
Why is that?
Who has improved among the young players since he was named hitting coach?

You could offer Rowand, but he still has little plate discipline. Did he help Juan Uribe? Willie Harris? Joe Crede?

Von Joshua was able to improve a group of young hitters through the season in 2000, Greg Walker has shown none of this ability.

RKMeibalane
12-02-2004, 10:49 PM
Who has improved among the young players since he was named hitting coach?

You could offer Rowand, but he still has little plate discipline. Did he help Juan Uribe? Willie Harris? Joe Crede?

Von Joshua was able to improve a group of young hitters through the season in 2000, Greg Walker has shown none of this ability.
I see your point, but in Walker's defense, none of the guys you've mentioned were as good as the hitters Von had to work with- Durham, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko. Uribe, Crede, and Harris would have barely played had they been members of the 1999-2000 Sox. They're expected to hold starting positions on next season's team.

Daver
12-02-2004, 10:58 PM
I see your point, but in Walker's defense, none of the guys you've mentioned were as good as the hitters Von had to work with- Durham, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko. Uribe, Crede, and Harris would have barely played had they been members of the 1999-2000 Sox. They're expected to hold starting positions on next season's team.
Von made Lee the hitter he is now, got Ray to quit swinging for the fences, and helped Magglio overcome some of the streakiness he had as a young hitter, what has Greg Walker done again?

Uribe, Harris, and Crede all played a lot last season, and showed zero signs of improvement at the plate, throughout the season, that is a direct reflection on Greg Walker and the job he is not doing.

santo=dorf
12-02-2004, 11:02 PM
Von made Lee the hitter he is now, got Ray to quit swinging for the fences, and helped Magglio overcome some of the streakiness he had as a young hitter, what has Greg Walker done again?

Uribe, Harris, and Crede all played a lot last season, and showed zero signs of improvement at the plate, throughout the season, that is a direct reflection on Greg Walker and the job he is not doing.
Greg Walker taught Borchard how to hit a 504 foot homer.

How exactly does a career .260 hitter get a job as a hitting coach for a MLB team?

Daver
12-02-2004, 11:18 PM
Greg Walker taught Borchard how to hit a 504 foot homer.

How exactly does a career .260 hitter get a job as a hitting coach for a MLB team?
How did Walt Hriniak and Von Joshua become successful hitting coaches?

I don't see how your point is relative.

RKMeibalane
12-03-2004, 10:28 AM
Greg Walker taught Borchard how to hit a 504 foot homer.

How exactly does a career .260 hitter get a job as a hitting coach for a MLB team?
I don't think teams are terribly concerned about the success of a player before they hire him as a hitting instructor. Now, there are several hitting intstructors who were good hitters during their playing careers (Don Mattingly, Tim Wallach), but that doesn't mean that everyone who applies for an instructor job must have been successful as an offensive player.

Just to illustrate my point further, I don't think that Frank Thomas would be a good hitting instructor, even though he's one of the greatest hitteres of this generation. His style is so different from that used by other players that I don't know if they could learn it. Hriniak had difficulty getting Sox players to conform to the style in the early 90's. The foremost example of that was when Cory Snyder told him he couldn't learn to hit off of his front foot, and then he was cut ten days later. I could see a similar thing happening with Frank.