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View Full Version : Jason Giambi admits to taking STEROIDS!!!


Jabroni
12-02-2004, 01:08 AM
"Admissions before BALCO grand jury detailed"
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1936592


SHOCKING!!!


Apparently, he got steroids and Human Growth Hormones from Barry Bonds' trainer in 2003 and his brother, Jeremy Giambi, also injected them. However, he did not implicate Barry Bonds. :rolleyes:

SomebodyToldMe
12-02-2004, 01:16 AM
Damn...That was an interesting read.

ilsox7
12-02-2004, 01:18 AM
Damn...That was an interesting read.
Agreed. Does anyone else have a feeling that this is going to be a HUGE story over the next several weeks/months? There has been a ton of speculation, but I just get the feeling that some big things are going to be made public soon. Who knows...

Jabroni
12-02-2004, 01:19 AM
Agreed. Does anyone else have a feeling that this is going to be a HUGE story over the next several weeks/months? There has been a ton of speculation, but I just get the feeling that some big things are going to be made public soon. Who knows...I will bet my life savings that Giambi's steroid use will be proven to be the cause of his medical problems. He had the same symptoms as someone would have from the overuse and withdrawal of steroids.

ChiSoxRowand
12-02-2004, 01:20 AM
There is a 20/20 special on friday where one of the BALCO guys (maybe Conti?) or somebody involve in the steroid mess that is not a player is going to give names.

FightingBillini
12-02-2004, 01:33 AM
And remember when he came to camp last year having clearly lost 20-25 lbs of muscle and said "I had a flu, and my diet is better, I am only 4lbs lighter." Right.

I never liked Giambi. First I heard of him, he was stole the 2000 MVP award from a much more deserving Frank Thomas (although it wasn't his fault, it was the fault of the moron sportswriters).

Then, he sold his soul to play for the Yankees. The A's were a young, crazy team. The Yankees were their arch enemies, and they were forming a classic rivalry. He was a rebel, and he was the heart and soul of that team. He was a rocker with a bad goatee and a mullet. He sold his soul for the Yankees' money. He shaved, cut his hair, and took the name off the back of his jersey. He changed everything about himself.

While I dont wish misfortune on him, and the health problems he had were not a laughing matter at all. I would crack a smile if he never plays another game in the MLB. I dont pity him, becuase it is becoming clearer that the problems were due to steroid use. I thought he was always overrated, and now we find out that what he did accomplish was all thanks to steroids.

Jabroni
12-02-2004, 01:34 AM
"Jason Giambi described to the grand jury how -- using syringes -- he injected human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks."Good lord. I wonder how screwed up his body is now. :o: He will probably die of liver failure at the age of 50.

Jabroni
12-02-2004, 01:44 AM
Buster Olney of ESPN is reporting that the Yankees will now try to void the last 4 years of Giambi's contract. Giambi is currently under a 7-year, $120 million contract that he signed in 2001. :o:

Mohoney
12-02-2004, 01:57 AM
They have to nail Bonds and Sosa now, or else this means nothing.

Yes, nailing Giambi is sweet, but Giambi isn't really a strong candidate for the Hall of Fame.

If Bonds and Sosa are busted cold, and the writers have any guts whatsoever, these two frauds won't see the inside of Cooperstown. Then maybe a few young players will steer clear of trying to cheat the game.

Giambi makes a fine scapegoat because of his subpar year last year. He's expendable in the eyes of the baseball world, and nobody would really mind if he fell from grace. If you REALLY want to send a message that steroid abuse will not be tolerated, you have to go after the biggest fraud of all, Barry Bonds.

Building Hall of Fame credentials with the help of steroids is, in my opinion, a much bigger disservice to the integrity of baseball than the gambling that Pete Rose partook in.

Pete Rose's integrity and character are in question, NOT his achievements. With players using performance enhancers, it's BOTH.

FightingBillini
12-02-2004, 02:32 AM
They have to nail Bonds and Sosa now, or else this means nothing.

Yes, nailing Giambi is sweet, but Giambi isn't really a strong candidate for the Hall of Fame.

If Bonds and Sosa are busted cold, and the writers have any guts whatsoever, these two frauds won't see the inside of Cooperstown. Then maybe a few young players will steer clear of trying to cheat the game.

Giambi makes a fine scapegoat because of his subpar year last year. He's expendable in the eyes of the baseball world, and nobody would really mind if he fell from grace. If you REALLY want to send a message that steroid abuse will not be tolerated, you have to go after the biggest fraud of all, Barry Bonds.

Building Hall of Fame credentials with the help of steroids is, in my opinion, a much bigger disservice to the integrity of baseball than the gambling that Pete Rose partook in.

Pete Rose's integrity and character are in question, NOT his achievements. With players using performance enhancers, it's BOTH.
And you know he took steroids how? Your evidence is what? This has nothing to do with Bonds. Giambi had a down year, Bonds did not. Bonds was tested in the middle of last season, and the government confiscated the MLB's samples for Bonds, Giambi, and other suspected players. I understand you don't like Bonds, but don't call him a cheat when you don't have an ounce of evidence. Giambi was never the caliber of Bonds. Bonds knows that he is under the gun right now, a time when anyone would stop taking steroids. His numbers were just as good as any other year. Is that the evidence you used to prove he cheated?
There has never been a player like Barry Bonds. Whether or not you like him personally, and I actually don't, you have to marvel at his accomplishments. He is clearly one of the greatest players ever. These last 4 years have been the best 4 year stretch for any hitter ever. He is incomparable. I cannot explain why he became better in his mid 30s, but he simply did. He hit a ridiculous amount of homeruns, that is true. Steroids can make you hit more homeruns, true. But...
STEROIDS DO NOT MAKE ONE HIT .370. Steroids do not turn a great hitter into arguably the most feared hitter in the history of baseball. Steroids don't give you an unbelievable eye at the plate. I am not saying without a doubt that he didn't take steroids. I don't know. But we can say without a doubt that he has become much better with age, whether or not he used steroids. The guy prepares like a mad man. He knows better than any other hitter exactly what the pitcher is going to throw at any situation. His at bats per home run was 8.3 last year! His walk to strike out ratio was 5.66! What other homerun hitters do you know who EVER had more homeruns than strikeouts in a season?! His greatness is not due to steroids in any way, even if he did take them to hit more homeruns.

Jjav829
12-02-2004, 02:51 AM
Shocking! What next, they're going to say that Barry Bonds took steroids? :rolleyes:

To me, this is 1 down, many to go. We're going to have a trickle down effect of players who took steroids. And I do agree that his conditions this past year probably were caused by the steroids. Unfortunately, that is what it is going to take for some players to stop. One of these known steroid abusers is going to have to die an early death before some players start thinking that maybe using steroids isn't the best idea. However, some will continue to use them no matter what.

StockdaleForVeep
12-02-2004, 03:17 AM
I wonder of Jason said this now because he may retire due to his medical problems? I mean with these health ailments, why would he come out now when he could still play? MLB will take some action on him with either a suspension or banishment from baseball. A fine at very least but also, was anyone else surprised that Jermey Giambi said he used steroids as well? I mean he didnt seem to be a candidate to do that kind of stuff and was like the underachieving brother to Jason and it didnt improve him dramatically.

Also, can the yankees void him if he's still injured?

Jabroni
12-02-2004, 03:20 AM
And you know he took steroids how? Your evidence is what? This has nothing to do with Bonds. Giambi had a down year, Bonds did not. Bonds was tested in the middle of last season, and the government confiscated the MLB's samples for Bonds, Giambi, and other suspected players. I understand you don't like Bonds, but don't call him a cheat when you don't have an ounce of evidence. Giambi was never the caliber of Bonds. Bonds knows that he is under the gun right now, a time when anyone would stop taking steroids. His numbers were just as good as any other year. Is that the evidence you used to prove he cheated?
There has never been a player like Barry Bonds. Whether or not you like him personally, and I actually don't, you have to marvel at his accomplishments. He is clearly one of the greatest players ever. These last 4 years have been the best 4 year stretch for any hitter ever. He is incomparable. I cannot explain why he became better in his mid 30s, but he simply did. He hit a ridiculous amount of homeruns, that is true. Steroids can make you hit more homeruns, true. But...
STEROIDS DO NOT MAKE ONE HIT .370. Steroids do not turn a great hitter into arguably the most feared hitter in the history of baseball. Steroids don't give you an unbelievable eye at the plate. I am not saying without a doubt that he didn't take steroids. I don't know. But we can say without a doubt that he has become much better with age, whether or not he used steroids. The guy prepares like a mad man. He knows better than any other hitter exactly what the pitcher is going to throw at any situation. His at bats per home run was 8.3 last year! His walk to strike out ratio was 5.66! What other homerun hitters do you know who EVER had more homeruns than strikeouts in a season?! His greatness is not due to steroids in any way, even if he did take them to hit more homeruns.Are you Bonds' agent or something? :tongue:

It will all come out one day. Bonds and Sosa are next in line. Did you ever see what Bonds looked like in college? No steroids my ass. :rolleyes: He may not be on the juice now but he was definately hitting up the hypodermics earlier in his career.

FightingBillini
12-02-2004, 04:21 AM
Are you Bonds' agent or something? :tongue:

It will all come out one day. Bonds and Sosa are next in line. Did you ever see what Bonds looked like in college? No steroids my ass. :rolleyes: He may not be on the juice now but he was definately hitting up the hypodermics earlier in his career.
Did you ever see how Frank Thomas looked in college?
Did you see what Mark McGwire looked like his rookie year? All older athletes used to be really skinny. Everyone is much bigger now than they were 10 and 15 years ago. All players were much smaller then. Those were the days before a shortstop could be 6'3" or hit 50 home runs on a regular basis. Everyone is bigger and much more muscular that in the past in all sports. They watch what they eat, work out on a regular basis, and train the entire year. Guys didnt do that 20 years ago. Its just a part of sports. In the 60s, defensive tackles in the NFL weighed in the 260s, now there are quaterbacks that weigh that much. 20 years ago there were barely any 300 pounders, and they were all considered huge. Today, NFL teams average something like 13 players at least 300, and there are some linemen that are 300lbs of solid muscle.

jordan23ventura
12-02-2004, 04:36 AM
Yay! He finally admitted it. I do have to give him props though. He was doing one hell of a job making it look like he didn't use steroids.

Does anyone know if there is any type of rule in player contracts that would allow a player to be released without pay for certain incidents like this one?

jordan23ventura
12-02-2004, 05:25 AM
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"In the house of Hendry with a bat of cork, I sat on a hemroid of blood. What was will be and what is will be no more. Now is the season of evil."



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"Evil?"



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StepsInSC
12-02-2004, 06:18 AM
Did you ever see how Frank Thomas looked in college?
Did you see what Mark McGwire looked like his rookie year? All older athletes used to be really skinny. Everyone is much bigger now than they were 10 and 15 years ago. All players were much smaller then. Those were the days before a shortstop could be 6'3" or hit 50 home runs on a regular basis. Everyone is bigger and much more muscular that in the past in all sports. They watch what they eat, work out on a regular basis, and train the entire year. Guys didnt do that 20 years ago. Its just a part of sports. In the 60s, defensive tackles in the NFL weighed in the 260s, now there are quaterbacks that weigh that much. 20 years ago there were barely any 300 pounders, and they were all considered huge. Today, NFL teams average something like 13 players at least 300, and there are some linemen that are 300lbs of solid muscle.Did YOU ever see Frank Thomas in college??!? He was pretty big then too, he was a TE for Auburn!

And McGwire WAS skinny. And what does being 6'3 have to do with taking steroids - they don't make you grow taller...

What was the point of this post again? I mean, I'm with you in that I don't want to hang Bonds without proof that he did it, but Thomas was bigger than most when he entered the league wasn't he?

StepsInSC
12-02-2004, 06:18 AM
And does this leave ANY DOUBT as to who the rightful owner of the 2000 MVP award should have been? :D:

hose
12-02-2004, 06:24 AM
I wonder if the Tribune will try and tie Sosa into the steroid scandal now that he is expendable.

cbrownson13
12-02-2004, 07:29 AM
I don't think Sosa's name will be mentioned with this at all. I don't believe he was getting steroids (assuming he was getting them) from BALCO. I think it is a safe bet there was an outside source. I hope no one here is assuming that BALCO is the only source of steroids to Major League players.

Jurr
12-02-2004, 07:32 AM
At the hospital today, I'm going to look and see if there is a correlation between pituitary tumors and chronic anabolic streroid use. The pituitary does secrete GH normally, but usually a gland that produces a hormone that is being supplemented by steroids SHRINKS instead of grows out of control.

A good example is the testes. The testes produce testosterone. When an athlete is taking testosterone, it's telling the body not to make any more because it's being brought in from the outside. The testes aren't being used in that regard anymore, so they atrophy. I'll do some research to see if Giambi's health problem is the result of his steroid use.

StepsInSC
12-02-2004, 07:35 AM
A good example is the testes. The testes produce testosterone. When an athlete is taking testosterone, it's telling the body not to make any more because it's being brought in from the outside. The testes aren't being used in that regard anymore, so they atrophy. I'll do some research to see if Giambi's health problem is the result of his steroid use.
Eh, small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

cbrownson13
12-02-2004, 07:49 AM
At the hospital today, I'm going to look and see if there is a correlation between pituitary tumors and chronic anabolic streroid use. The pituitary does secrete GH normally, but usually a gland that produces a hormone that is being supplemented by steroids SHRINKS instead of grows out of control.

A good example is the testes. The testes produce testosterone. When an athlete is taking testosterone, it's telling the body not to make any more because it's being brought in from the outside. The testes aren't being used in that regard anymore, so they atrophy. I'll do some research to see if Giambi's health problem is the result of his steroid use.
They had the guy from the San Fransico Chronicle on Sportscenter last night and he said he talked to a doctor and said that while he doesn't think it would cause the tumor, he did think that the type of steroid he was taking would make it grow.

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 08:45 AM
Buster Olney of ESPN is reporting that the Yankees will now try to void the last 4 years of Giambi's contract. Giambi is currently under a 7-year, $120 million contract that he signed in 2001. :o:What is with the baseball gods?

ARod wants out of Texas? - OK, Aaron Boone conveniently goes down with an ACL enabling them to void his contract.

Steinbrenner wants RJ, Pavano/Pedro, Leiter, AND Beltran but is a bit worried about payroll of $250-300mil? - OK, Giambi admits to steroid use, enabling them to void his contract and freeing up $$$ for FA.

If they can void Giambi's deal, Beltran will be a Yankee for sure. If they can't, he still has a decent chance, but I wouldn't be surprised if they opted for pitching instead.

Fungo
12-02-2004, 09:07 AM
And does this leave ANY DOUBT as to who the rightful owner of the 2000 MVP award should have been? :D:
:hurt

NOPE

Justafan
12-02-2004, 09:08 AM
I'm not about to slander Bonds or Sosa. If they did it, it will come out. I do know that Sosa was so ripped three years ago I thought he was a pro body builder. Regardless of what happens with them, the fact Giambi was exposed is a black eye for my favorite sport, a sport I have loved since I was 7 years old.

That is what hurts me.

Dolanski
12-02-2004, 09:08 AM
Ok, so Giambi admits to steroid use and probably a few others will do so more info leaks. My question, what does the commissioner's office do? If Bud Selig had a spine (he's a jellyfish) and had some balls (a la David Stern) he would suspend the lot of them for a very long time. Heck, Landis did that back in the 20s to the Black Sox. A different era but still, baseball has historically been firm about the integrity of the game. I would hope that Selig would remember he has an obligation to the game first and to these millionaire cheaters second.

*Sigh* Sadly, I have little faith that it will happen and Barry will have his records sans asterisk. Well, at least I know that he'll be booed when he goes into the HOF.

Huisj
12-02-2004, 09:27 AM
Ok, so Giambi admits to steroid use and probably a few others will do so more info leaks. My question, what does the commissioner's office do? If Bud Selig had a spine (he's a jellyfish) and had some balls (a la David Stern) he would suspend the lot of them for a very long time. Heck, Landis did that back in the 20s to the Black Sox. A different era but still, baseball has historically been firm about the integrity of the game. I would hope that Selig would remember he has an obligation to the game first and to these millionaire cheaters second.

*Sigh* Sadly, I have little faith that it will happen and Barry will have his records sans asterisk. Well, at least I know that he'll be booed when he goes into the HOF.
The problem is that Selig might not be able to do anything to punish players who took steroids before there was any steroid testing regulations. How can you punish a guy for doing something that wasn't technically punishable by baseball at the time he was doing it?

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 09:29 AM
The problem is that Selig might not be able to do anything to punish players who took steroids before there was any steroid testing regulations. How can you punish a guy for doing something that wasn't technically punishable by baseball at the time he was doing it?Weren't steroids banned even before testing started? I recall McGwire taking Andro, which wasn't banned, but I though that was just a loophole, and that most steroids (though not HGH) were banned.

idseer
12-02-2004, 09:30 AM
And you know he took steroids how? Your evidence is what? This has nothing to do with Bonds.
the evidence would be the steroids came from bonds own trainer. i don't think it's a great leap to suggest bonds himself has used undetectable steroids, is it? also the rather sudden ripped body. throw in the late career jump in production ... not a common thing.
granted ... these 3 things aren't proof in and of themselves, but you didn't ask for proof, you asked for evidence.

PaulDrake
12-02-2004, 10:01 AM
And you know he took steroids how? Your evidence is what? This has nothing to do with Bonds. Giambi had a down year, Bonds did not. Bonds was tested in the middle of last season, and the government confiscated the MLB's samples for Bonds, Giambi, and other suspected players. I understand you don't like Bonds, but don't call him a cheat when you don't have an ounce of evidence. Giambi was never the caliber of Bonds. Bonds knows that he is under the gun right now, a time when anyone would stop taking steroids. His numbers were just as good as any other year. Is that the evidence you used to prove he cheated?
There has never been a player like Barry Bonds. Whether or not you like him personally, and I actually don't, you have to marvel at his accomplishments. He is clearly one of the greatest players ever. These last 4 years have been the best 4 year stretch for any hitter ever. He is incomparable. I cannot explain why he became better in his mid 30s, but he simply did. He hit a ridiculous amount of homeruns, that is true. Steroids can make you hit more homeruns, true. But...
STEROIDS DO NOT MAKE ONE HIT .370. Steroids do not turn a great hitter into arguably the most feared hitter in the history of baseball. Steroids don't give you an unbelievable eye at the plate. I am not saying without a doubt that he didn't take steroids. I don't know. But we can say without a doubt that he has become much better with age, whether or not he used steroids. The guy prepares like a mad man. He knows better than any other hitter exactly what the pitcher is going to throw at any situation. His at bats per home run was 8.3 last year! His walk to strike out ratio was 5.66! What other homerun hitters do you know who EVER had more homeruns than strikeouts in a season?! His greatness is not due to steroids in any way, even if he did take them to hit more homeruns. Wow, you must be Barry's biggest fan. Seriously though, it's all going to come out eventually and you're either going to have go even further into a state of denial, or finally deal with it. When this is all said and done it will be the worst thing for baseball since the Black Sox scandal.

FightingBillini
12-02-2004, 10:23 AM
Wow, you must be Barry's biggest fan. Seriously though, it's all going to come out eventually and you're either going to have go even further into a state of denial, or finally deal with it. When this is all said and done it will be the worst thing for baseball since the Black Sox scandal.
Yes, if it came to that I agree. It would destroy the game. However, you seem to be the one in denial if you wont acknowledge that Bonds has become a much much better hitter over the last 5 years. Any if he was on steroids, why didnt he suddenly lose 30 pounds of muscle like Sosa and Giambi when this scandal broke? Im not saying for sure he didnt do steroids. Im just saying he would still be the best hitter in the game today if he didnt have any power, and you guys are so full of it. Circumstantial evidence cannot idict someone. There is currently zero actual evidence that Bonds took steroids. Until something comes out, all the Bonds haters need to ****. I think he is a prick, personally. I dont like him, but I am in awe of what the man does on a baseball field. I put my personal dislike for him aside.

ma_deuce
12-02-2004, 10:30 AM
I'm not about to slander Bonds or Sosa. If they did it, it will come out. I do know that Sosa was so ripped three years ago I thought he was a pro body builder. Regardless of what happens with them, the fact Giambi was exposed is a black eye for my favorite sport, a sport I have loved since I was 7 years old.

That is what hurts me.What hurts me is that the owners ignored it until political pressure forced them to deal with it, and the players union continues to resist effective random testing in spite of the growing evidence of widespread abuse.

By the way, don't worry about slandering Bonds or Sosa in your post.

Slander is spoken. Libel is in print. :D:

Deuce

daveeym
12-02-2004, 10:35 AM
Yes, if it came to that I agree. It would destroy the game. However, you seem to be the one in denial if you wont acknowledge that Bonds has become a much much better hitter over the last 5 years. Any if he was on steroids, why didnt he suddenly lose 30 pounds of muscle like Sosa and Giambi when this scandal broke? Im not saying for sure he didnt do steroids. Im just saying he would still be the best hitter in the game today if he didnt have any power, and you guys are so full of it. Circumstantial evidence cannot idict someone. There is currently zero actual evidence that Bonds took steroids. Until something comes out, all the Bonds haters need to ****. I think he is a prick, personally. I dont like him, but I am in awe of what the man does on a baseball field. I put my personal dislike for him aside. Circumstantial evidence just convicted Scott Peterson and has him sweating a death penalty sentence right now. If any of the indications that are out there right now actually exist he'd be found guilty as hell in a court of law. Not because there was any smoking gun but because all signs point to CHEATER. Your blind arguments for bonds are rather disturbing and even perplexing and it's just because he's the best hitter in the world. Please, steroids do affect hitting or else no one would be taking them and you'd see 6-2 180 pounders keeping up with the big boys. they won't take a schmuck like you and take you to the bigs but it bumps everyone up a level. Why does bonds need to take em? Because everyone else is and when those good but not great players are now threatening bonds, his legacy, his money because their numbers are approaching his, he now needs to go on roids to sate his ego and again be THE BEST.

doublem23
12-02-2004, 11:06 AM
Wow, you must be Barry's biggest fan. Seriously though, it's all going to come out eventually and you're either going to have go even further into a state of denial, or finally deal with it. When this is all said and done it will be the worst thing for baseball since the Black Sox scandal.
I don't think he's in denial, I think he (like many rational people) don't appreciate still innocent people being accused of something. I'm not saying Bonds didn't take steroids, and I'm not saying he did, but no one has the right to say he's done something wrong while there is no evidence out there other than your your vast scientific knowledge and finger pointing.

Maybe you have to come to terms with Barry Bonds being innocent until proven guilty.

voodoochile
12-02-2004, 11:08 AM
I don't think he's in denial, I think he (like many rational people) don't appreciate still innocent people being accused of something. I'm not saying Bonds didn't take steroids, and I'm not saying he did, but no one has the right to say he's done something wrong while there is no evidence out there other than your your vast scientific knowledge and finger pointing.

Maybe you have to come to terms with Barry Bonds being innocent until proven guilty.
That would be in a court of law. The court of public opinion has NEVER worked that way. I mean has ShamME* ever been convicted of beating his wife with a rum bottle or spending the lost $10K on steroids or testing positive for steroid use? None of that matters to they Sox fans who regularly rip on him, me included.

Why is it suddenly taboo to rip on Barry for similar stuff? :dunno:

doublem23
12-02-2004, 11:09 AM
Why is it suddenly taboo to rip on Barry for similar stuff? :dunno:Because Sammy's a Cub. :)

voodoochile
12-02-2004, 11:10 AM
Because he's a Cub. :)
D'oh...

I forgot that clause in the WSI manifesto...:D:

SoxxoS
12-02-2004, 11:15 AM
I hate to say it...but I would do the same thing. If I was a AA player (let's say similar to Brian Anderson right now)...I would call my doctor and have him get me on a plan to get a lot stronger. I would have him monitor me, and if he wouldn't want to do it, I am sure I could of found someone who would. It just makes too much sence from a financial perspective.

I don't know if Giambi was a "fringe" prospect or not, but if you are sitting the the minor league not knowing if you are going to be able to make it, there is a cost/benefit analysis to steroids:

Take them. Increase chances of making major leagues GREATLY. Be financially secure, possibly, for the rest of your life and your family. The glory of being a major leaguer and all that goes along with that. You may or may not have health problems.

Don't take them. Probably won't make the major leauges. Eventually will have to quit the game you love early b/c you aren't making enough money to support a family. Won't get sick or have any health problems realated to steroids (but that doesn't guarantee anything health from any other problems).

To me, it's an easy choice...although it probably sounds bad....

santo=dorf
12-02-2004, 11:21 AM
And you know he took steroids how? Your evidence is what?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1903019

In an article published Saturday, the Chronicle reports that Greg Anderson, Bonds' boyhood friend and a defendant in the BALCO steroids conspiracy case, provided Bonds with steroids that could be taken the day of a test and still not be detected.This has nothing to do with Bonds.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1936592

In the testimony obtained by the Chronicle, the former American League MVP told the grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids case that he used steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, the personal trainer for San Francisco Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sfo) star Barry Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918).

daveeym
12-02-2004, 11:37 AM
I hate to say it...but I would do the same thing. If I was a AA player (let's say similar to Brian Anderson right now)...I would call my doctor and have him get me on a plan to get a lot stronger. I would have him monitor me, and if he wouldn't want to do it, I am sure I could of found someone who would. It just makes too much sence from a financial perspective.

I don't know if Giambi was a "fringe" prospect or not, but if you are sitting the the minor league not knowing if you are going to be able to make it, there is a cost/benefit analysis to steroids:

Take them. Increase chances of making major leagues GREATLY. Be financially secure, possibly, for the rest of your life and your family. The glory of being a major leaguer and all that goes along with that. You may or may not have health problems.

Don't take them. Probably won't make the major leauges. Eventually will have to quit the game you love early b/c you aren't making enough money to support a family. Won't get sick or have any health problems realated to steroids (but that doesn't guarantee anything health from any other problems).

To me, it's an easy choice...although it probably sounds bad.... The problem is it's not that simple, i know you didn't put this in your post but steroids are rampant in the minors as well as the majors. The problem is most prospects have to take steroids to even complete and plenty of them are still not making it and hanging up the spikes after not making the bigs and getting that security for you and your family. In college every guy that hit the minors for a brief spell would come back and go man, i don't know how much longer i'm gonna play 50% + is on roids and I won't do it. It's very demoralizing to those who refuse to participate, watching some schmuck wiht half as much skill and talent move up while you're struggling. Then you have those that it's sexy to and jump on board, and finally those who feel it's their only chance. It's ridiculous and anyone who defends steroid use as a personal choice and should be treated as a victimless crime is an idiot. On a person by person basis, sure let them kill themselves, but as far as a social problem and problem from baseball it's a horrible thing.

Huisj
12-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Weren't steroids banned even before testing started? I recall McGwire taking Andro, which wasn't banned, but I though that was just a loophole, and that most steroids (though not HGH) were banned.
I guess my question is that if they really were banned, there was still no way to actually catch somebody and punish them for it. There was no testing process yet then. With no testing process, there was no punishment process, because no one got caught. So even if they were "banned", they effectively weren't.

Can you really go back and punish a guy for admitting now to using steroids a few years ago? You're punishing a guy for being honest, where a hundred other guys will never tell and walk away. I guess it's just hard to see how it's fair to use today's rules on yesterday's actions.

and don't get me wrong--i'm certainly not defending giambi or bonds or anyone else who's done it.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 12:20 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't grand jury proceedings SECRET? How did the SF Chronicle get transcripts? This isn't like an ordinary leak. You can go to prison for this.

voodoochile
12-02-2004, 12:22 PM
I guess my question is that if they really were banned, there was still no way to actually catch somebody and punish them for it. There was no testing process yet then. With no testing process, there was no punishment process, because no one got caught. So even if they were "banned", they effectively weren't.

Can you really go back and punish a guy for admitting now to using steroids a few years ago? You're punishing a guy for being honest, where a hundred other guys will never tell and walk away. I guess it's just hard to see how it's fair to use today's rules on yesterday's actions.

and don't get me wrong--i'm certainly not defending giambi or bonds or anyone else who's done it.
Steroids may not be explicitly banned by MLB, but obtaining them for these purposes without a valid perscription is a felony.

Brian26
12-02-2004, 12:43 PM
The **** has hit the fan. Wow.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 12:44 PM
Steroids may not be explicitly banned by MLB, but obtaining them for these purposes without a valid perscription is a felony.True, but if it was explicitly banned by MLB they would have immediate justification for deleting records or MVP awards if a player was proven to have taken them. If it's just against the law, the justification is a bit murkier.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 12:46 PM
The **** has hit the fan. Wow.Victor Conti is going to be on 20/20 tomorrow. Supposedly he's going to name names and blow the lid of this whole mess. Maybe that's partly just network hype, but if you think it's hit the fan now, just wait.

StillMissOzzie
12-02-2004, 12:48 PM
Also appalling, IMHO, that it took a grant of immunity to get Giambi to 'fess up, admitting that he's been lying all along about having been on the juice. I hope the Yanks are successful in voiding the SOB's contract. Also mentioned earlier is that 20/20 is gonna feature some BALCO executive, and ABC's promos say that he'll name names. In light of Giambi's confession, this could get REAL interesting.

SMO

Edit: That's Victor Conte appearing on Friday's 20/20

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 12:59 PM
Also appalling, IMHO, that it took a grant of immunity to get Giambi to 'fess up, admitting that he's been lying all along about having been on the juice. I hope the Yanks are successful in voiding the SOB's contract. Also mentioned earlier is that 20/20 is gonna feature some BALCO executive, and ABC's promos say that he'll name names. In light of Giambi's confession, this could get REAL interesting.

SMO

Edit: That's Victor Conte appearing on Friday's 20/20They pretty much had Giambi's nuts in a vice. This was grand jury testimony. If he lied, he could get charged with perjury. From all indications, Bonds told the same grand jury that he never took steroids. If it's later proven that he did, he's going to be playing for a different team very soon.

serena
12-02-2004, 02:07 PM
At the hospital today, I'm going to look and see if there is a correlation between pituitary tumors and chronic anabolic streroid use. The pituitary does secrete GH normally, but usually a gland that produces a hormone that is being supplemented by steroids SHRINKS instead of grows out of control.

A good example is the testes. The testes produce testosterone. When an athlete is taking testosterone, it's telling the body not to make any more because it's being brought in from the outside. The testes aren't being used in that regard anymore, so they atrophy. I'll do some research to see if Giambi's health problem is the result of his steroid use.
It's worth reading the SF article, too. Here's the link-
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL

It says there that Giambi also took a number of different pills that were part of the Balco "system." They believe one of the pills was Clomid, a female fertility drug that can ehance the effect of testosterone. Later in the article, it says that Clomid "can exacerbate a tumor of the pituitary gland. The drug's label warns physicians not to prescribe Clomid to patients with pituitary tumors."

Sad story, but not unexpected. Steroids in baseball has been an impending train wreck for a long time now.

ma_deuce
12-02-2004, 02:10 PM
They pretty much had Giambi's nuts in a vice. This was grand jury testimony. If he lied, he could get charged with perjury. From all indications, Bonds told the same grand jury that he never took steroids. If it's later proven that he did, he's going to be playing for a different team very soon.
Yep... the California Penal League.

I_Liked_Manuel
12-02-2004, 03:33 PM
any chance of a lot of players coming out tonight or tomorrow afternoon to avoid having 20/20 come out with it first?

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 03:36 PM
any chance of a lot of players coming out tonight or tomorrow afternoon to avoid having 20/20 come out with it first?Any chance of my being first in line for the Anna Benson Revenge tour?

Jabroni
12-02-2004, 03:41 PM
Any chance of my being first in line for the Anna Benson Revenge tour?Sorry bud, 2 inches just doesn't get it done for Anna! :wink:

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 03:48 PM
They pretty much had Giambi's nuts in a vice.
And I think their first clue was the size (or lack thereof) of the vice they needed to use.....

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 03:58 PM
Why is it suddenly taboo to rip on Barry for similar stuff? :dunno:Giambi lost 30 pounds and got sick when he quit juicing. Sham-ME lost 30+ pounds and started corking to boost his pathetic HR total when he took a juice break due to fear of testing. Bonds lost no weight and had one of his best seasons ever with the whole world watching and while being tested. I'm not saying he's innocent, but his lack of weight loss and performance needs to be explained by the accusers...and it hasn't.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 04:07 PM
Giambi lost 30 pounds and got sick when he quit juicing. Sham-ME lost 30+ pounds and started corking to boost his pathetic HR total when he took a juice break due to fear of testing. Bonds lost no weight and had one of his best seasons ever with the whole world watching and while being tested. I'm not saying he's innocent, but his lack of weight loss and performance needs to be explained by the accusers...and it hasn't.Unless he's using something that isn't showing up on their tests. This cat-and-mouse game has been refined to high art in other sports. The MLB owners are bumpkins by comparison. It wouldn't be that hard to fool the system. Or maybe he doesn't care if he gets caught. The testing program is a joke. After 3 infractions you get a finger shaking and a couple of stern "tut-tuts"

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 04:10 PM
Giambi lost 30 pounds and got sick when he quit juicing. Sham-ME lost 30+ pounds and started corking to boost his pathetic HR total when he took a juice break due to fear of testing. Bonds lost no weight and had one of his best seasons ever with the whole world watching and while being tested. I'm not saying he's innocent, but his lack of weight loss and performance needs to be explained by the accusers...and it hasn't.
Happy to be corrected, but aren't "the clear" and "the cream" undetectable? I'm not saying Barry juiced (I believe he did, but as you say, there's no proof and he hasn't tested positive or shrunk), but that could explain why he hasn't lost performance or tested positive. Remember - Giambi didn't test positive either as far as we know, he just fessed up on the stand. I can easily see Barry being a lot more comfortable with lying under oath than Jason based on what I've heard/seen about their personalities.

idseer
12-02-2004, 04:17 PM
Unless he's using something that isn't showing up on their tests. This cat-and-mouse game has been refined to high art in other sports. The MLB owners are bumpkins by comparison. It wouldn't be that hard to fool the system. Or maybe he doesn't care if he gets caught. The testing program is a joke. After 3 infractions you get a finger shaking and a couple of stern "tut-tuts"
wild speculation:

and why didn't barry quit? perhaps he's not worried about problems in his old age .... thinking he won't live that long anyway. doesn't his whole family tend to die early? i thought i read something of that nature.
so ... makeing hay while he can?

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 04:30 PM
Happy to be corrected, but aren't "the clear" and "the cream" undetectable? I'm not saying Barry juiced (I believe he did, but as you say, there's no proof and he hasn't tested positive or shrunk), but that could explain why he hasn't lost performance or tested positive. Remember - Giambi didn't test positive either as far as we know, he just fessed up on the stand. I can easily see Barry being a lot more comfortable with lying under oath than Jason based on what I've heard/seen about their personalities.They were quite detectable once that syringe was turned in. Several Olympic athletes were busted for them.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 04:32 PM
Unless he's using something that isn't showing up on their tests. This cat-and-mouse game has been refined to high art in other sports. The MLB owners are bumpkins by comparison. It wouldn't be that hard to fool the system. Or maybe he doesn't care if he gets caught. The testing program is a joke. After 3 infractions you get a finger shaking and a couple of stern "tut-tuts"OK, so who made this? All the Balco products are known and people have been caught in tests. So, now we have to create a new mystery desinger steroid producer to cover his performance. He may very well be guilty. But straight up comparisons to the ballooning and shrinking corker just don't hold water.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 04:34 PM
They were quite detectable once that syringe was turned in. Several Olympic athletes were busted for them.You're thinking of HGH. The "clear" is a liquid placed under the tongue and the "cream" is, well, a cream applied to the skin. They may be detectable now, but I'm sure there are other, newer things that aren't.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 04:35 PM
You're thinking of HGH. The "clear" is a liquid placed under the tongue and the "cream" is, well, a cream applied to the skin. They may be detectable now, but I'm sure there are other, newer things that aren't.Look where I live. I most likely know a bit more about Balco than you. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 04:50 PM
Look where I live. I most likely know a bit more about Balco than you. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gifI'm not sure what geographic proximity has to do with it. You surely don't think Balco is the only one doing this. It's become a cottage industry in track and field. But let's get back to the subject. The fact that Bonds hasn't been caught is not proof of innocence. They don't test in the off-season, and they don't test anyone more than twice in a season, so once he's had a second test, he can shoot up all he wants. And there is a continuing supply of new drugs that the labs aren't looking for yet.

And before you say it, I'll agree that hitting a lot of home runs is not proof of guilt, either. But according to Giambi, he got the stuff from Bonds' personal trainer after asking what Bonds was doing to stay so strong. That, taken together with all the other circumstantial evidence may not constitute "smoking gun" proof, but it's pretty damning.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 04:58 PM
I'm not sure what geographic proximity has to do with it. You surely don't think Balco is the only one doing this. It's become a cottage industry in track and field. But let's get back to the subject. The fact that Bonds hasn't been caught is not proof of innocence. They don't test in the off-season, and they don't test anyone more than twice in a season, so once he's had a second test, he can shoot up all he wants. And there is a continuing supply of new drugs that the labs aren't looking for yet.

And before you say it, I'll agree that hitting a lot of home runs is not proof of guilt, either. But according to Giambi, he got the stuff from Bonds' personal trainer after asking what Bonds was doing to stay so strong. That, taken together with all the other circumstantial evidence may not constitute "smoking gun" proof, but it's pretty damning.For every minute of news you see about Balco, I see 15 or more. Think about it.

I never claimed Bonds was innocent. There are just a couple glaring differences between him and the rest. For example, other than the one season, his HR totals are not that out of whack for him. In fact, the big difference with him the last several years is an uncanny ability to hit, extreme coordination. Why does only he get this, and nobody else? I guess it could be because he was arguably the best player in the league to begin with? I just don't like shoddy, shallow thinking. Making Bonds out to be the same as the Corking Wife Beater and Giambi is not well thought out and glosses over glaring differences. I'll give you creativity points for inventing new steroids to explain last season. Now, explain why only Bonds became super HITTER instead of just more powerful. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I should add, I will not be surprised if he gets busted. But the uniqueness of his situation intrigues me.

Man Soo Lee
12-02-2004, 05:05 PM
The drug in the syringe was THG, which Conte has said was "the clear". MLB added it to the banned substances list last March.

As far as I know, baseball players have not been tested for HGH.

ondafarm
12-02-2004, 05:06 PM
For every minute of news you see about Balco, I see 15 or more. Think about it.

I never claimed Bonds was innocent. There are just a couple glaring differences between him and the rest. For example, other than the one season, his HR totals are not that out of whack for him. In fact, the big difference with him the last several years is an uncanny ability to hit, extreme coordination. Why does only he get this, and nobody else? I guess it could be because he was arguably the best player in the league to begin with? I just don't like shoddy, shallow thinking. Making Bonds out to be the same as the Corking Wife Beater and Giambi is not well thought out and glosses over glaring differences. I'll give you creativity points for inventing new steroids to explain last season. Now, explain why only Bonds became super HITTER instead of just more powerful. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I should add, I will not be surprised if he gets busted. But the uniqueness of his situation intrigues me.
Bonds is a unique hitter. I think he may also get caught having used steroids and I think that is a shame. He was hitting 30-40 HR per season and then jumped after Sosa and McGwire did. I think it would be inappropriate for Bonds to have Hank Aaron's record if he were proven to be chemically enhanced. Not that I think many of his other records are due to steroids.

Paulwny
12-02-2004, 05:29 PM
I hate to say it...but I would do the same thing. If I was a AA player (let's say similar to Brian Anderson right now)...I would call my doctor and have him get me on a plan to get a lot stronger. I would have him monitor me, and if he wouldn't want to do it, I am sure I could of found someone who would. It just makes too much sence from a financial perspective.

I don't know if Giambi was a "fringe" prospect or not, but if you are sitting the the minor league not knowing if you are going to be able to make it, there is a cost/benefit analysis to steroids:

Take them. Increase chances of making major leagues GREATLY. Be financially secure, possibly, for the rest of your life and your family. The glory of being a major leaguer and all that goes along with that. You may or may not have health problems.

Don't take them. Probably won't make the major leauges. Eventually will have to quit the game you love early b/c you aren't making enough money to support a family. Won't get sick or have any health problems realated to steroids (but that doesn't guarantee anything health from any other problems).

To me, it's an easy choice...although it probably sounds bad....
Minor league players are not covered by the mlp players' union or the mlb drug testing policy. Minor league players are continually being tested and the penalties for failure are harsher.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 05:31 PM
For every minute of news you see about Balco, I see 15 or more. Think about it.

I never claimed Bonds was innocent. There are just a couple glaring differences between him and the rest. For example, other than the one season, his HR totals are not that out of whack for him. In fact, the big difference with him the last several years is an uncanny ability to hit, extreme coordination. Why does only he get this, and nobody else? I guess it could be because he was arguably the best player in the league to begin with? I just don't like shoddy, shallow thinking. Making Bonds out to be the same as the Corking Wife Beater and Giambi is not well thought out and glosses over glaring differences. I'll give you creativity points for inventing new steroids to explain last season. Now, explain why only Bonds became super HITTER instead of just more powerful. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I should add, I will not be surprised if he gets busted. But the uniqueness of his situation intrigues me.Other than one season??? You mean the season he hit 12 more HR more than anybody NOT on steroids had ever hit? That one season? And I could argue that the only reason he isn't hitting more now is because no one throws him anything close to home plate anymore. He had more than 100 fewer AB in 2004 than he did in 2001.

Bonds is a good hitter now because he was a pretty good hitter before. He did win the NL MVP in 1990 before his power numbers really took off. But when you have that little extra, those fly balls to the warning track aren't outs anymore, so your BA goes up along with your power numbers. Look at his SLG numbers. Up until 1991 his highest SLG was .565 and he managed more than 25 HR only once with 33 in 1990. Since then his lowest SLG was .585 and he's never hit less than 33 HR. For the last several years he's been around .800 SLG. Circumstantial? Sure. But taken with all the other evidence, it's looks pretty bad.

I can assure you that the influx of new drugs designed to circumvent testing is not my invention. There are many other Balco's around, continuously developing new drugs that aren't on screening lists.

Paulwny
12-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Victor Conti is going to be on 20/20 tomorrow. Supposedly he's going to name names and blow the lid of this whole mess. Maybe that's partly just network hype, but if you think it's hit the fan now, just wait.This Conti appearance on 20/20 is very strange. He supposedly told the press that he pled not guilty to the feds. If that's true, if he names players, he will indict himself.
Either he lied to the press and actually pled guilty or as you noted this maybe network hype.

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 05:50 PM
This Conti appearance on 20/20 is very strange. He supposedly told the press that he pled not guilty to the feds. If that's true, if he names players, he will indict himself.
Either he lied to the press and actually pled guilty or as you noted this maybe network hype.
You mean the networks would actually build up something to be more than it actually is in an attempt to increase ratings?
:D:

Foulke29
12-02-2004, 05:51 PM
STEROIDS DO NOT MAKE ONE HIT .370.
Steroids may not make you hit .370, but hitting 73 HR will certainly make the pitchers throw such junk at you that you'll draw over 200 BB. Subtract the 200 BB and let's suppose he gets closer to 100 BB. The other 100, he might get 20 - 30 hits and bring his AVG back to earth.

No, hitting .370 is not from steroid use, but 73 HR are and the fear put into pitchers from those homers sure can impact the way a hitter is pitched to.

Let's not forget his personal trainer being busted for the possession of steroids.

Buck Fonds - he sucks.

SluggersAway
12-02-2004, 07:39 PM
Doesn't look like any news will be made from the 20/20 special. Here (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=297995&page=1) is a link to the write-up for the show on the ABC website.

Some highlights:

"Conte says he tailored illegal drug regimens for top athletes, including Olympic track stars Marion Jones, Kelli White and Tim Montgomery."

"In short, the Olympic Games are a fraud," Conte tells ABC News.

Conte asserts the use of performance-enhancing drugs is essential to level the playing field. "It's not cheating if everybody is doing it. And if you've got the knowledge that that's what everyone is doing, and those are the real rules of the game, then you're not cheating."

As for baseball:

Conte says he believes Major League Baseball officials are not adequately addressing the problem of drug use. "I think they still believe there's, there's a Santa Claus They're not in contact with reality. I mean the program that they put together is a joke," he said.
Conte tells "2020" he gave Anderson the performance-enhancing drugs "clear" and "cream," but not for any athlete's use. "This was not for any specific athlete," Conte says, "but mainly for Greg for his own personal use or whatever he did with it."

Conte says he doesn't know whether Anderson gave those drugs to any athletes. "I have no specific knowledge of this. I didn't say 'Here's clear. Go give this to Gary,' or 'Here's clear. Go give this to Barry.'"

"Let me tell you the biggest joke of all, I would guesstimate that more than 50 percent of the athletes are taking some form of anabolic steroids."

"My guess is more than 80 percent are taking some sort of a stimulant before each and every game."

I_Liked_Manuel
12-02-2004, 07:39 PM
i would imagine that steroids would boost your batting average by a fairly significant amount due to the increased bat speed.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2004, 07:52 PM
i would imagine that steroids would boost your batting average by a fairly significant amount due to the increased bat speed.Change WTP to LTP. That adds to your BA.

Flight #24
12-02-2004, 08:53 PM
Verrrrrry interesting article on ESPN about the ways in which the Yanks might try to get out from under Giambi's contract and the implications for others.


But voiding the contract isn't the Yankees' only option. They would also have two other potential avenues, according to the MLB source:
1. Attempting to convert Giambi's deal to a non-guaranteed contract (ostensibly by claiming breach of contract).
Or 2. refusing to pay Giambi for time missed while injured (ostensibly because they would allege that that time missed resulted from steroid use).

"This is a huge, huge, huge issue," the first attorney said, "on all fronts. First and foremost, it would mean that any player who negotiated a megadeal and then was proved to have used steroids would be putting himself at risk of voiding his contract."Obviously the chances of this happening are slim to none given the guaranteed nature of the contracts, the power of the MLBPA, and the inability to directly link illnesses to steroid use.

Mohoney
12-02-2004, 08:53 PM
Any if he was on steroids, why didnt he suddenly lose 30 pounds of muscle like Sosa and Giambi when this scandal broke?
Here's the thing. I don't think Bonds has stopped. I think he's still using.

Jjav829
12-02-2004, 09:23 PM
This Conti appearance on 20/20 is very strange. He supposedly told the press that he pled not guilty to the feds. If that's true, if he names players, he will indict himself.
Either he lied to the press and actually pled guilty or as you noted this maybe network hype.It seems like this might be network hype. The wording I've heard in advertisements for the special is "biggest name in sports," or "athletes." They haven't mentioned baseball specifically. ABC.com has a story on the interview here (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=297995&page=1) that makes it seem like the only names he mentions are those of track and field stars. There are quotes in that story from Conte saying that he gave the products to Greg Anderson but he has no knowledge of what Anderson did with them. In other words, if you are tuning in tomorrow night hoping to hear Conte list the MLB players who used this stuff, you'll likely be disappointed.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 10:00 PM
Here's the thing. I don't think Bonds has stopped. I think he's still using.That's the essence of it. His situation is different than all the other known 'roiders. Other people hit more homers, but nobody else produced trans-Ruthian numbers across the board. Everybody else shrank and fell off in performance. He didn't. So, you can hypothesize 'roids had a "special" effect on him, he's found a new designer drug and he's still doing them. But, Occam's Razor would lead one to conclude he doesn't do 'roids. And that is fascinating. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent and wouldn't be surprised if he did 'roid. But the most logical explanation is he didn't. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Lip Man 1
12-02-2004, 10:36 PM
With regards to Giambi's contract and the Yanks, question, were steroids declaired illegal by MLB during the years that Giambi was using them?

If so he clearly violated his deal and the Yanks should pay him nothing, but if steroids were not illegal by MLB during that time (a la andro) then how did Giambi violate his deal?

Lip

StillMissOzzie
12-02-2004, 10:56 PM
With regards to Giambi's contract and the Yanks, question, were steroids declaired illegal by MLB during the years that Giambi was using them?

If so he clearly violated his deal and the Yanks should pay him nothing, but if steroids were not illegal by MLB during that time (a la andro) then how did Giambi violate his deal?

Lip
I may be wrong, but I think that steroids have ALWAYS been illegal, particularly if you are in possession w/o a prescription. It's the testing and the harsh penalties for positive tests that's new for MLB.

SMO
:gulp:

Man Soo Lee
12-02-2004, 11:18 PM
But, Occam's Razor would lead one to conclude he doesn't do 'roids. And that is fascinating. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent and wouldn't be surprised if he did 'roid. But the most logical explanation is he didn't. When a guy's body changes significantly in his 30s, his career peaks a decade late, and his longtime friend and personal trainer is indicted and admits to giving HGH and steroids to other major league players, I would think that Occam's Razor would lead one to be very suspicious.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 11:20 PM
When a guy's body changes significantly in his 30s, his career peaks a decade late, and his longtime friend and personal trainer is indicted and admits to giving HGH to other major league players, I would think that Occam's Razor would lead one to be very suspicious.If you ignore the contradictory data, which you are choosing to do.

Man Soo Lee
12-02-2004, 11:21 PM
If you ignore the contradictory data, which you are choosing to do.
Seems like you ignored a heck of a lot too.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 11:22 PM
With regards to Giambi's contract and the Yanks, question, were steroids declaired illegal by MLB during the years that Giambi was using them?

If so he clearly violated his deal and the Yanks should pay him nothing, but if steroids were not illegal by MLB during that time (a la andro) then how did Giambi violate his deal?

LipThere is an "abuse of illegal or prescription" drugs clause. If he got 'roids legally, which he didn't, he's in violation. If he got them without a prescription, they are illegal and he's in violation. That's their angle. It has nothing to do with baseball's rules. They are going for regular law.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 11:25 PM
Seems like you ignored a heck of a lot too.No I didn't. I acknowledged everything and presented an interesting conundrum. If you can't discuss this without acting churlish, please don't participate.

Wsoxmike59
12-02-2004, 11:31 PM
There is a 20/20 special on friday where one of the BALCO guys (maybe Conti?) or somebody involve in the steroid mess that is not a player is going to give names.http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=297995&page=1


Here's a link to the 20/20 special on Friday 12/3 on ABC. The :dtroll: is about to hit the fan people! Can You Say *73 Mr. Bonds????

Man Soo Lee
12-02-2004, 11:45 PM
No I didn't. I acknowledged everything and presented an interesting conundrum. If you can't discuss this without acting churlish, please don't participate.
Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I just feel there is so much circumstantial evidence that one has to be suspicious.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2004, 11:47 PM
Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I just feel there is so much circumstantial evidence that one has to be suspicious.Oh, it's totally suspicious. I just find his particular differences interesting. I guess the question is "how did he do it"? http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

SluggersAway
12-03-2004, 12:04 AM
San Francisco Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP) has his testimony... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP

Foulke29
12-03-2004, 08:52 AM
With regards to Giambi's contract and the Yanks, question, were steroids declaired illegal by MLB during the years that Giambi was using them?

If so he clearly violated his deal and the Yanks should pay him nothing, but if steroids were not illegal by MLB during that time (a la andro) then how did Giambi violate his deal?

Lip
If they tie his current medical condition back to juicing, it could be argued that he broke the agreement to not do things that could significantly harm his body.

This is the clause that allowed the Yankees to void Boone's contract for playing basketball.

Ol' No. 2
12-03-2004, 09:34 AM
San Francisco Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP) has his testimony... Oh...he thought they were flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm. That's different, then.

Paulwny
12-03-2004, 09:40 AM
Funny how the NY press ignored this until now.

From Newsday:

Yankees people saying they're on a fact-finding mission conjures Captain Renault in "Casablanca" saying he was "shocked, shocked to find gambling" while cashing his winnings at Rick's place. Sure, it's true everyone in baseball knew about Giambi's "medicinal" habits. But according to his own testimony, he significantly stepped up his steroid-taking after becoming a Yankee. Plus, his nocturnal ways really blossomed here. According to people who know him, he became the player who never slept.

Giambi "lived the life of a rock star," according to a former member of the Yankees' traveling party, and several witnesses say he was partying late with Ricky Williams in Miami during the 2003 World Series, right before begging out of Game 5. The same person said Giambi would sneak beer onto the bench and call his in-game shots personal "protein drinks." He also picked up smoking and could be seen during the 2004 ALCS chewing tobacco while supposedly in sick bay.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sphey034064189dec03,0,2618065.column?coll=ny-yankees-print

gosox41
12-03-2004, 09:40 AM
Oh...he thought they were flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm. That's different, then.
If Bonds truly didn't know what he was putting in his body (and I don't believe that for a second) then he should be PO's that he was given a dangerous and illegal substance and pursue legal action against Conte.

At least that's what I would do if a doctor gave me an illegal substance and told me it was something else.



Bob

FarWestChicago
12-03-2004, 12:30 PM
If Bonds truly didn't know what he was putting in his body (and I don't believe that for a second) then he should be PO's that he was given a dangerous and illegal substance and pursue legal action against Conte.

At least that's what I would do if a doctor gave me an illegal substance and told me it was something else.



BobConte will say in tonight's non-event (for baseball, he goes after Olympic athletes) that he never gave 'roids to Bonds and never discussed 'roids with Bonds according to the local news.

gosox41
12-03-2004, 01:40 PM
Conte will say in tonight's non-event (for baseball, he goes after Olympic athletes) that he never gave 'roids to Bonds and never discussed 'roids with Bonds according to the local news.
It's amazing how he can keep lying about it. It's becoming obvious. I'm not surprised Conte is going to deny it, Bonds is probably paying him a lot of money for all that training and cream.

I haven't had as much time as I'd like to read over everything, but there has to be a witness or some proof somewhere to implicate Bonds and Sheffield.

Has it been mentioned if Bonds passed/failed his steroid test?




Bob

white sox bill
12-03-2004, 03:35 PM
It's worth reading the SF article, too. Here's the link-
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL

It says there that Giambi also took a number of different pills that were part of the Balco "system." They believe one of the pills was Clomid, a female fertility drug that can ehance the effect of testosterone. Later in the article, it says that Clomid "can exacerbate a tumor of the pituitary gland. The drug's label warns physicians not to prescribe Clomid to patients with pituitary tumors."

Sad story, but not unexpected. Steroids in baseball has been an impending train wreck for a long time now.

Clomid is a synthetic estrogen clincally administered ti help women ovulate. Bodybuilders following AAS cycles, are seeking to jump start thier own testosterone production, oftern take Clomid. Clomiphene increases activity in the HPG axis by stimulating the pituitary gland. This is used in conjuntion with HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin). I'll start a thread on this whole media orgasm this weekend. You'd be surprized how much hype this whole steroid thing. The rumors are mostly unfounded. But imagine, pro athletes taking performance enhancing drugs--like finding out that water is wet!!