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View Full Version : How much $$$ do you expect pitching to cost?


santo=dorf
12-01-2004, 11:40 AM
Kris Benson gets 3 years $22.5 million
Troy Percival gets 2 years $12 million
Armando Benitez gets 3 years $21 million
Paul Wilson gets 2 years $8.2 million
Cory Lidle gets 2 years $6.2 million
Brad Radke gets 2 years $18 million
Jaret Wright gets 3 years possibly worth $21 million
Jon Lieber gets 3 years $21 million
Al Leiter gets 1 year $8 million

*Pedro Martinez is offered a 3 year deal worth $37.5 million

Matt Clement is expecting a 3 year deal worth around $24 million

*Eric Milton is expecting a 3 year deal worth $21 million

Russ Ortiz has received 3 offers, one of which was for 3 years

*Ron Villone received an offer from Seattle

*Odalis Perez; I haven't seen much on him :?:

*Carl Pavano turned down a 3 year deal from Florida and is expecting $8-9 million per. Yankees are prepared to make a 4 year deal to him.

Derek Lowe is represented by Scott Boras and is expecting $9 million per year after his postseason performance

*-Indicates that the Yankees are interested, thus jacking up the prices.

So there you have it. People keep :whiner: about the Sox potentially overpaying for a pitcher, yet the market for pitching this year sucks.

What do you want the Sox to do, and at what price?

I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox sign Odalis Perez to a 3 year deal worth $18 million, or signing Jaret Wright to a 3 year deal worth $15 million, or a deal with a lot of incentives.

eshunn2001
12-01-2004, 11:46 AM
Don't worry, Grilli will be our #5 next year. I have a feeling none of the guys you mentioned will be on the Whitesox next year. And in most cases I am happy they will not be. Unless........... Ozzie could get one of his sisters, neices, or cousins to start banging Pedro.

wdelaney72
12-01-2004, 11:49 AM
Good post. You are correct in that it appears that if we're going to sign a SP, we're gonna have to pay dearly.

Before I answer, I'd like to know which of these pitchers are considered "ground ball" pitchers? I know Clement, Lieber, and Lowe are of that school. I know I don't want Pedro - too breaky. Also, I'd want to make sure Clement was healthy, as well.

I think Jon Lieber would be a good fit, especially since we're going to be spending a lot on Randy Johnson.

34 Inch Stick
12-01-2004, 11:53 AM
If you want to talk about jacking up the prices, look no further than the Mets. That Kris Benson contract is way out of line with what the market probably would have bourne. The best case scenario to me would be getting Clement for 6 million a year.

MisterB
12-01-2004, 11:53 AM
All I can say is come opening day, the Sox signing Freddy for 3 yr/$27M will look like a real bargain.

Lip Man 1
12-01-2004, 01:06 PM
All I can say is PHG's post about salaries going up the past 15 years and that the Sox better get used to this fact looks better every day.


Lip

striker60657
12-01-2004, 01:37 PM
We are more likely to get a pitcher via trade. Hopefully Hudson or Mulder. Other possibilities are Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez. I'd really like to see us get Hudson and extend his contract.

Ol' No. 2
12-01-2004, 01:39 PM
We are more likely to get a pitcher via trade. Hopefully Hudson or Mulder. Other possibilities are Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez. I'd really like to see us get Hudson and extend his contract.Kevin Brown????? Are we thinking of the same Kevin Brown??? Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anewman35
12-01-2004, 01:50 PM
All I can say is PHG's post about salaries going up the past 15 years and that the Sox better get used to this fact looks better every day.

Right. Salaries are up. So is the payroll. What's your point, again?

munchman33
12-01-2004, 01:53 PM
All I can say is PHG's post about salaries going up the past 15 years and that the Sox better get used to this fact looks better every day.


Lip
More like we need to get used to the fact that the quality of player we are able to afford is getting lower every year.

striker60657
12-01-2004, 02:09 PM
Kevin Brown????? Are we thinking of the same Kevin Brown??? Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not saying we should get him. I'm saying he is probably an option KW is looking at.

Ol' No. 2
12-01-2004, 02:11 PM
I'm not saying we should get him. I'm saying he is probably an option KW is looking at.I doubt it. If Kenny is seriously looking at Kevin Brown as an option, I'll lead the lynching party.

Jjav829
12-01-2004, 02:43 PM
The bottom line is the Kris Benson deal set the market. The Mets, in a rush to sign Benson and justify the midseason trade, overpaid him rather then letting the market play out. Had they done so, I think the interest would have been minimal and Benson would have received less. However, they've set the market value for mediocre pitching. They gave a guy who isn't much better than Jon Garland a 3 year, $22.5 million deal. Every agent took note of that and smiled. Now guys like Jon Lieber are expecting to get paid "Benson money". Every mediocre pitcher's value went up with that signing. If anyone here thinks that we are going to be able to sign a good pitcher for less than an average of $5-6 million a year, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Cory freaking Lidle got 2 years and $6.3 million. The only hope is that the market develops slowly and causes some pitchers to settle for less in order to sign quickly. That could drive down the asking prices, as could the non-tender date when the market gets flooded with new names. But as of now, if the Sox are going to be players for Clement, Wright, or even Russ Ortiz, it's probably going to cost around an average of $6 million per.

Flight #24
12-01-2004, 03:20 PM
The bottom line is the Kris Benson deal set the market. The Mets, in a rush to sign Benson and justify the midseason trade, overpaid him rather then letting the market play out. Had they done so, I think the interest would have been minimal and Benson would have received less. However, they've set the market value for mediocre pitching. They gave a guy who isn't much better than Jon Garland a 3 year, $22.5 million deal. Every agent took note of that and smiled. Now guys like Jon Lieber are expecting to get paid "Benson money". Every mediocre pitcher's value went up with that signing. If anyone here thinks that we are going to be able to sign a good pitcher for less than an average of $5-6 million a year, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Cory freaking Lidle got 2 years and $6.3 million. The only hope is that the market develops slowly and causes some pitchers to settle for less in order to sign quickly. That could drive down the asking prices, as could the non-tender date when the market gets flooded with new names. But as of now, if the Sox are going to be players for Clement, Wright, or even Russ Ortiz, it's probably going to cost around an average of $6 million per.
Can I just point out that the way the market's looking, Garcia at 9mil per is looking like a steal? I mean if Kris freakin Benson gets 7+ & Matt freakin Clement gets 8 I gotta think Freddy'd be looking for more (and get) like 10.

Just another reason why that trade was good for the Sox.

Flight #24
12-01-2004, 03:28 PM
Brad Radke received an offer from the Twins for 3 years $20 million

.FWIW - I saw a report that he wanted & would likely get something on the lines of 3-yrs/$27mil. While the final # can be debated, the best piece of news is that the Twinks are pretty far off of the price, so they'll likely lose him.

santo=dorf
12-01-2004, 04:23 PM
FWIW - I saw a report that he wanted & would likely get something on the lines of 3-yrs/$27mil. While the final # can be debated, the best piece of news is that the Twinks are pretty far off of the price, so they'll likely lose him.Oh I'm not doubting that, in fact I saw the same numbers too. IIRC, Cleveland was willing to give him $27 million over 3 years, but now it appears that the Twins won't give him more than $20 million.

Mohoney
12-01-2004, 05:15 PM
Oh I'm not doubting that, in fact I saw the same numbers too. IIRC, Cleveland was willing to give him $27 million over 3 years, but now it appears that the Twins won't give him more than $20 million.
So, do the Twins turn around and sign a replacement with that 3 years, $20 million, or do they go with what they currently have in-house and spend the cash elsewhere?

Jjav829
12-01-2004, 06:29 PM
Can I just point out that the way the market's looking, Garcia at 9mil per is looking like a steal? I mean if Kris freakin Benson gets 7+ & Matt freakin Clement gets 8 I gotta think Freddy'd be looking for more (and get) like 10.

Just another reason why that trade was good for the Sox.Oh I agree, I was for the trade at the time. With Benson getting $7+ per, Garcia would likely have been asking for a Pavano type contract.

voodoochile
12-01-2004, 06:55 PM
With prices like these, you can count on one thing...

The Sox will wait until the market settles and several pitchers sign so the remaining ones start to get a bit more desperate, or else they will acquire a one year signee via trade.

Scraps from the big boys table one more time...

SABRSox
12-01-2004, 07:59 PM
We are more likely to get a pitcher via trade. Hopefully Hudson or Mulder. Other possibilities are Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez. I'd really like to see us get Hudson and extend his contract.
Hudson made an ultimatum to the A's that they sign him to a contract by March 1, or he'll play out 2005 and leave as a free agent. Two things will either happen; a) Beane will sign him to an extension. b) Beane will trade Hudson, Hudson will play out 2005 for whatever team he ends up with, and then explore free agency.

My guess is that A is the most likely scenario. But even if Beane decides to trade Hudson, and even if KW lands him, I'm sure it would cost us our best prospects, and we probably wouldn't be able to sign him. He wants Schilling or Pedro money, and he'll get it. I'd say 4 or 5 years at 12mil per for Hudson is not out of the realm of possibility, and the White Sox won't be paying that much.

santo=dorf
12-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Some Updates:
According to the Star-Tribune, the Twins are currently offering Brad Radke $23 million over three years.
The paper also believes that Radke will be offered arbitration, which is a change from what the Pioneer Press indicated a day ago. The Pioneer Press has reported that the Twins have a three-year, $21 million contract on the table. Dec. 2 - 3:42 am et
Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5114963.html)
According to the New York Post, the Yankees and Jon Lieber are getting close to an agreement on a three-year, $21 million contract.
It looks like the Yankees should have just picked up Lieber's $8 million option. Maybe the Mets' decision to overpay for Kris Benson was just part of some elaborate strategy to drive up the price tags of a bunch of starters they had no interest in. Dec. 2 - 3:29 am et
Source: New York Post (http://newyorkpost.com/sports/yankees/32283.htm)
How's Garcia's extension looking now?

petekat
12-03-2004, 05:13 PM
I think this list shows the danger in going after mediocre, todd-ritchie level pitching. WRight, Lieber, Benson all these middling guys should be viewed with caution. Sox are better off going for it all- going after an ace offering $12-13 for Pedro or Pavano, or doing the Johnson trade, or just going with the status quo (mining their existing candidates- hoping to strike lighthing in a bottle like Este with a spring training invite) then going after one of these middle guys. The lack of quality in the middle tier- sort of like the analogy of either going to Charlie Trotter's or grabbing fast food, but not wasting time at Chili's or Bennigan's. I think Wright is a big risk at $15 mill. you gotta worry if a smart team like the Braves take a pass.

Hey at those rates, why not bring back Este for a few mill?



Some Updates:


How's Garcia's extension looking now?

santo=dorf
12-03-2004, 05:27 PM
I think this list shows the danger in going after mediocre, todd-ritchie level pitching. WRight, Lieber, Benson all these middling guys should be viewed with caution. Sox are better off going for it all- going after an ace offering $12-13 for Pedro or Pavano, or doing the Johnson trade, or just going with the status quo (mining their existing candidates- hoping to strike lighthing in a bottle like Este with a spring training invite) then going after one of these middle guys. The lack of quality in the middle tier- sort of like the analogy of either going to Charlie Trotter's or grabbing fast food, but not wasting time at Chili's or Bennigan's. I think Wright is a big risk at $15 mill. you gotta worry if a smart team like the Braves take a pass.

Hey at those rates, why not bring back Este for a few mill?$12-13 million for Pavano? The guy had one good year. I don't think he will come to the midwest unless someone over pays. I read somewhere that the Tigers were going to offer him a 4 year deal worth $36-40 million. That's stupid.

I imagine the Braves would love to bring Wright back, but they already have $40 million locked up in Andruw, Chipper, and Smoltz, with their total payroll is reportedly being "only" around $82 million for next season. They can't afford Wright or Ortiz.

santo=dorf
12-08-2004, 12:37 AM
You can cross Radke and Wright off of the list. :(:

I think the Sox should go after Odalis Perez. There were reports last season that KW was trying to get him in exchange for Konerko, so hopefully Kenny has him on his wishlist.

:reinsy
"and who do you expect to pay for him?"

fusillirob1983
12-08-2004, 01:38 AM
Take this with a grain of salt because I have no credibility: I have a strange feeling that Loaiza will be starting for the Sox next season.

batmanZoSo
12-08-2004, 02:24 AM
Take this with a grain of salt because I have no credibility: I have a strange feeling that Loaiza will be starting for the Sox next season.
Here's to the first half of that statement ringing true. :gulp:

santo=dorf
12-08-2004, 04:44 PM
Al Leiter, and Jon Lieber are off the list. I think KW has to get Odalis Perez at this point.