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View Full Version : I can see it now, Jeff Kent, White Sox 2B


WhiteSoxFan84
11-29-2004, 12:43 AM
Think about it. We lost a .300, 30 HR, 100 RBI guy that plays RF. We've had a whole at second base since Ray Durham was traded and some may argue even before that. There's a power-hitting, free agent, second basemen out there looking for a home. His name is Jeff Kent.

Sure he'll be 37 years old by the start of next season, but looking at his stats recently, you'd think he's a 27 year old player in his prime. Here are his stats;

YEAR - BA, HR, RBI, OBP
1997 - .250, 29, 121, .316
1998 - .297, 31, 128, .359
1999 - .290, 23, 101, .366
2000 - .334, 33, 125, .424
2001 - .298, 22, 106, .369
2002 - .313, 27, 108, .368
2003 - .297, 22, 93, .351
2004 - .289, 27, 107. .348

Very solid 8 year totals right there (for a second basemen at least). If Kent can have a repeat of his 2004 season in 2005 with the White Sox, I think he would be well worth a 2 year, $16 million guranteed contract loaded with incentives that could get the contract all the way up to a total of $22 million over the two years.

The only teams I've heard of that are interested in Kent are Houston and Detriot. I think Kenny Williams would make the right decision if he were to go after and sign Kent. Some of you may not agree, but in my opinion, this move would be great.

Another possibility would be Tony Womack although I don't regard him as highly as a lot of other people do in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong about him, but one thing's for sure, when he's on top of his game, he can play second very well and can be a great leadoff man.

The other holes we'd have are RF, SP, 1-2 RP, and possibly C, 3B, and SS although I'd prefer Uribe at SS. It would be great if one of those holes was filled with a leadoff man.
Some possible (inexpensive) names could be;

RF - Jeromy Burnitez. I'd love to say J.D. Drew or even Carlos Beltran (oh!-my!-god!), but that's just a pipedream. Burnitez wouldn't ask for more than a 1 year, $2 million contract with incentives. Being a left handed power hitter doesn't hurt him either. If this happens, Carl Everett would either be traded or.... damn I hate the fact that we have Everett.
SP - Matt Clement. Come on KW. The guy lives in Chicago, he loves Chicago, his wife supposedly loves the city. And he probably despises the Cubs now, what is holding you back?? Other more possible possibilities; Wilson Alvarez and Pedro Astacio.
RP - Jason Christiansen and Paul Shuey. A lefty and a righty from the west coast, both very reliable.
C - I don't see any intriguing free agents. I think either Big Ben Davis or Jamie Burke will prove to be reliable behind the plate next year. If not, we can possibly look into Greg Zaun.
3B - Joe Randa. We should know about this guy, he's been a Sox killer forever it seems. Some of you may think the Joe we currently have (Crede) will turn into a solid player. Well I'm not seeing that. He's nowhere near a MLB everyday player. Yes he had clutch moments and that's why I think he'd be a great backup, pinch hitter. Think Randa is not worth taking a look at? In our current lineup he'd probably hit 6th or 7th. Look at these stats and tell me you wouldn't mind this kind of production from our 6th or 7th hitter;

1999 - .314, 16, 84, .363
2000 - .304, 15, 106, .343
2001 - .253, 13, 83, .307
2002 - .282, 11, 80, .341
2003 - .291, 16, 72, .348
2004 - .287, 8, 56, .343

Now that you've thought about it, let's put it all together; Jeff Kent, Jeromy Burnitez, Matt Clement, Jason Christiansen, Paul Shuey, Joe Randa, and possibly Greg Zaun. All these players combined annual salaries should not exceed $25 million. Taking out Magglio's $14 million, Jose Valentin's $5 million, Billy Koch's $6 mill; adding Jose Contreras $4.75 million (8-Esteban Loaiza's 3.25), Freddy Garcia's 9; we are looking at a payroll increase at the most of $11.25 million. With that increase, you practically fill every hole you have with solid, reliable, proven players.

Now may all the people who disagree just for the sake of disagreeing come out and tell me why this plan is bad, evil, and not patriotic.



:LTP"Hey, where do I fit in your masterplan?"

































http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif.

Tragg
11-29-2004, 01:07 AM
Think Randa is not worth taking a look at? In our current lineup he'd probably hit 6th or 7th. Look at these stats and tell me you wouldn't mind this kind of production from our 6th or 7th hitter;

1999 - .314, 16, 84, .363
2000 - .304, 15, 106, .343
2001 - .253, 13, 83, .307
2002 - .282, 11, 80, .341
2003 - .291, 16, 72, .348
2004 - .287, 8, 56, .343

Yes, I think he's not worth looking at.
3B is a power position; we're working with Crede hoping he'll blossom. If he won't fine, get a real 3B not a 35 year older with no power. (Crede has more power than this guy). And hell, factor out his stats against the Sox, and his HR total would probably be reduced by 50%.:smile:

Kent? If he's cheap, okay. He hit in a hitters park and had a nice lineup around him (before HOuston, it was Barry Bonds).

We need players in their primes. The Everetts, the Alomars---85 wins and pray.

CubKilla
11-29-2004, 01:14 AM
If Jeff Kent is the '05 2B for the White Sox I'll eat my free Opening Day tix.

sox7235
11-29-2004, 02:16 AM
I don't know if I would want Kent because I don't believe his defense is very good anymore. Tony Womack will never duplicate his 2004 season, unless the price was right I would say no to him also. Sign Todd Walker and if no Walker, go with Willie, 2005 will be his breakout year.

I would take Joe Randa and Matt Clement in a heartbeat. 3B may be a power position, but we can make up for that wherever Uribe plays, 28 or SS.

Jeromy Burnitz, no. The Sox don't really need another DH.

Paul Shuey, ok, but I would rather have Anotnio Osuna.

FightingBillini
11-29-2004, 02:30 AM
Paul Shuey, ok, but I would rather have Anotnio Osuna.
Thats what I've been saying for months!! KW needs to bring Osuna back.

jabrch
11-29-2004, 02:42 AM
Kent was talking about retiring right? If he plays a few more years, it would be either for the big $ or for the best chance to win. In either case, I doubt we'd be the likely destination for him.

sox7235
11-29-2004, 02:55 AM
Thats what I've been saying for months!! KW needs to bring Osuna back.
I wanted Osuna back last year. Go get him KW!!!!!!

Flight #24
11-29-2004, 08:22 AM
Now that you've thought about it, let's put it all together; Jeff Kent, Jeromy Burnitez, Matt Clement, Jason Christiansen, Paul Shuey, Joe Randa, and possibly Greg Zaun. All these players combined annual salaries should not exceed $25 million. Taking out Magglio's $14 million, Jose Valentin's $5 million, Billy Koch's $6 mill; adding Jose Contreras $4.75 million (8-Esteban Loaiza's 3.25), Freddy Garcia's 9; we are looking at a payroll increase at the most of $11.25 million. With that increase, you practically fill every hole you have with solid, reliable, proven players.

You forgot to include the roughly $10mil in salary increases due to players who were under contract at the beginning of 2004. So you plan ends up in 21mil in payroll increase unless you trade someone else. To be 100% fair, you also forgot Shoney @ IIRC 1.75mil that will likely come off of the books.

Still, I like the ideas of Shuey, Christiansen, Clement - that should be doable for about 10mil total.

poorme
11-29-2004, 09:01 AM
kent's reputation on defense sucks, but he led the league in defensive win shares. (kind of like jose last year)

jabrch
11-29-2004, 09:07 AM
kent's reputation on defense sucks, but he led the league in defensive win shares. (kind of like jose last year)

defensive win shares...refresh my memory... How is that calculated. Cuz I think I saw it once before and felt it was total bullpoop.

munchman33
11-29-2004, 11:01 AM
Still, I like the ideas of Shuey, Christiansen, Clement - that should be doable for about 10mil total.
With the way the market is moving, $10 million might not be enough to sign Clement alone.

poorme
11-29-2004, 11:25 AM
defensive win shares...refresh my memory... How is that calculated. Cuz I think I saw it once before and felt it was total bullpoop.see if this link helps

http://www.baseballgraphs.com/details.html#sharecalc

i studied it once from bill james' book and thought it made pretty good sense. at least better than any of the other (poor) defensive metrics.

jabrch
11-29-2004, 11:28 AM
see if this link helps

http://www.baseballgraphs.com/details.html#sharecalc

i studied it once from bill james' book and thought it made pretty good sense. at least better than any of the other (poor) defensive metrics.
I agree defensive metrics suck. And this one is no different. I still think Kent is a below average defensive 2B - despite whatever the winshare calculation says.

Lip Man 1
11-29-2004, 12:48 PM
For what it's worth, from Dave Van Dyke's story on Sox FA needs in the Monday Tribune:

The Sox do have money to spend, though they are not going to be players in the high-priced free-agent sweepstakes. And the price of midlevel players, such as Omar Vizquel and Damian Miller—both of whom were perfect fits for the Sox—has gone up considerably.

This lends more creedence to PHG's contention that salaries have been going up across the boards for ALL players the last 15 years and the Sox better come to grips with this fact.

Lip

hold2dibber
11-29-2004, 01:42 PM
Think about it. We lost a .300, 30 HR, 100 RBI guy that plays RF. We've had a whole at second base since Ray Durham was traded and some may argue even before that. There's a power-hitting, free agent, second basemen out there looking for a home. His name is Jeff Kent..
Kent would be a good addition, but I'd much rather the Sox big free agent splash (if any) be in pitching. And I think it is highly doubtful Kent would come here unless the Sox were willing to substantially overpay. Which is not a good idea for a team with a limited payroll, like the Sox.


Another possibility would be Tony Womack although I don't regard him as highly as a lot of other people do in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong about him, but one thing's for sure, when he's on top of his game, he can play second very well and can be a great leadoff man.
I wouldn't touch Womack with a ten foot poll. He's 35, he has a career OBP of .319 and since his career year in '99, his OBP each year has been .307, .307, .325, .251 and .349. He's not the solution to what ails the Sox. I don't think Womack is much of an upgrade over Harris. That $ would be better spent on pitching.


RF - Jeromy Burnitez. I'd love to say J.D. Drew or even Carlos Beltran (oh!-my!-god!), but that's just a pipedream. Burnitez wouldn't ask for more than a 1 year, $2 million contract with incentives. Being a left handed power hitter doesn't hurt him either. If this happens, Carl Everett would either be traded or.... damn I hate the fact that we have Everett.
SP - Matt Clement. Come on KW. The guy lives in Chicago, he loves Chicago, his wife supposedly loves the city. And he probably despises the Cubs now, what is holding you back?? Other more possible possibilities; Wilson Alvarez and Pedro Astacio.
RP - Jason Christiansen and Paul Shuey. A lefty and a righty from the west coast, both very reliable.
C - I don't see any intriguing free agents. I think either Big Ben Davis or Jamie Burke will prove to be reliable behind the plate next year. If not, we can possibly look into Greg Zaun.
3B - Joe Randa. We should know about this guy, he's been a Sox killer forever it seems. Some of you may think the Joe we currently have (Crede) will turn into a solid player. Well I'm not seeing that. He's nowhere near a MLB everyday player. Yes he had clutch moments and that's why I think he'd be a great backup, pinch hitter. Think Randa is not worth taking a look at? In our current lineup he'd probably hit 6th or 7th. Look at these stats and tell me you wouldn't mind this kind of production from our 6th or 7th hitter.
I'd rather have Everett than Burnitz in RF.
Clement, Radke or Leiber for middle of the rotation starter AND a veteran FA starter to compete for the 5th spot/long relief spot (Alvarez and Astacio would probably fit that description)
Shuey would be a nice signing, but Christiansen doesn't add anything that Politte doesn't already give you. I'd like to see a run at Scott Williamson (assuming he's healthy) instead.
Zaun would be a great pick-up. Is he a free agent?
Randa? No thanks. He's not very good and he's old. Crede has been horrible, but again, Randa isn't much of an upgrade. Randa went .287/.343/.408 (.751 OPS) with 8 homers and 56 RBIs last year. Crede went .239/.299/.418 (.717 OPS) with 21 homers and 69 RBIs last year. Randa will be 35 when the season begins. I don't see him as being the solution. I'd love to see the sox sign Koskie (.251/.342/.495 for a .837 OPS, with 25 HRs and 71 RBIs), but if that doesn't happen, I'd rather go with Crede than waste $ on Randa.


Now that you've thought about it, let's put it all together; Jeff Kent, Jeromy Burnitez, Matt Clement, Jason Christiansen, Paul Shuey, Joe Randa, and possibly Greg Zaun. All these players combined annual salaries should not exceed $25 million. Taking out Magglio's $14 million, Jose Valentin's $5 million, Billy Koch's $6 mill; adding Jose Contreras $4.75 million (8-Esteban Loaiza's 3.25), Freddy Garcia's 9; we are looking at a payroll increase at the most of $11.25 million. With that increase, you practically fill every hole you have with solid, reliable, proven players.
As noted elsewhere, you're forgetting over $10 million in increases for other guys under contract and the $4 million owed Everett for '05, less $1.75 off of the payroll for Schoenweiss. Overall, that puts current payroll at just about equal to last year's opening day payroll. And I think it would cost at least $30 million to sign all the guys you're suggesting - and we both know that ain't happening. I think the best we can hope for is signing something like Clement ($7 million), Zaun ($2 million), Shuey ($3.5 million), Astacio ($1.5 million with incentives). That's an increase in payroll of about $14 million, which probably is higher than they'll actually go. Anything beyond that almost certainly would require trading Konerko for substantially cheaper players.

the_valenstache
11-29-2004, 01:47 PM
I don't see why not to bite on Kent for the right price.

Of course, the "right price" will never even be an option.

But I would change my handle to "the_kentstache". :cool:

FightingBillini
11-29-2004, 04:30 PM
I don't see why not to bite on Kent for the right price.

Of course, the "right price" will never even be an option.

But I would change my handle to "the_kentstache". :cool:
I agree. I mean, who is going to have a magnificent mustache in our infield next year? Konerko? wouldn't look good, already has a goatee. Uribe? Possibly, but I would much rather see him bring back the Dick Allen, with a big fro and huge sideburns. Harris? No way, he needs to pull out the early 90's Rickey Henderson flat top fade with the lines carved in the sides of his head. Crede? I don't think he can even grow facial hair. That leaves us with Ben Davis. Unless he decides to come to spring training with the General Ambrose Burnside:
http://www.suite101.com/files/articles/22000%5C22654/Burnside.gif
we will be out of luck. That means we must either sign Kent, trade for Raphael Palmiero, or bring Mike Schmidt out of retirement.

balke
11-29-2004, 08:53 PM
Oh man. The move looks big time, but would be all fluff. Kent couldn't do it for Houston, and won't do it for us. That would give us 50 double plays between 1st and 2nd. And our defense would implode. #'s are pretty and all, but even Kent's attitude sucks. I've never liked the guy. We're looking like we are going to suck regardless next season, might as well save a few bucks.

petekat
11-30-2004, 12:11 AM
Jeff "I was out washing my truck" Kent. Perhaps if you're putting together a trailer trash/clubhouse cancer team. Skip