PDA

View Full Version : Rule 5 Option: Andy Sisco


SEALgep
11-27-2004, 09:36 AM
Andy Sisco of the Chicago Cubs is to be risked in the Rule 5 draft. He's a 6' 9" lefty who can throw 90-93, but up to 95. He's a starter who still needs a little polish, but is a former second round draft pick with some real good upside. Cub's fans have been talking all year about how their pitching prospects are the best around, and all have included this guy as part of their reasoning. Not that Cub's fans know what the hell they are talking about, but this guy sounds like someone to take a risk on. Supposedly the Cubs are under the assumption that no one will keep the guy on their roster all year long. However, if we choose to give him back, a $25,000 gamble doesn't seem inappropriate to me.

MRKARNO
11-27-2004, 11:13 AM
I would like to see this guy picked up by the Sox, but I don't think he'll last beyond the first five teams. I'm assuming that the picking order is worst to first NL/AL, so I dont see us getting him, though it would be nice if we could. The Cubs, by putting him in the Rule 5 draft, have essentially given him away.

jabrch
11-27-2004, 11:15 AM
Sisco had a terrible year last year. He doesn't deserve a 24 man roster spot - he needs to be pitching in the minors. I don't see a major league team wasting a roster spot on him.

munchman33
11-27-2004, 11:28 AM
Sisco had a terrible year last year. He doesn't deserve a 24 man roster spot - he needs to be pitching in the minors. I don't see a major league team wasting a roster spot on him.
I think a team like Pittsburgh or Cincinnatti, who are desperate for pitching help, will give him a chance as a power lefty out of the pen.

jabrch
11-27-2004, 11:33 AM
I think a team like Pittsburgh or Cincinnatti, who are desperate for pitching help, will give him a chance as a power lefty out of the pen.

4-10 in 25 starts with a 4+ ERA in Single A? I don't see it - I don't see how a team keeps him on the 25 man roster.

Rex Hudler
11-27-2004, 03:04 PM
4-10 in 25 starts with a 4+ ERA in Single A? I don't see it - I don't see how a team keeps him on the 25 man roster.
You seem to be missing the ins and outs of the Rule V draft. The players taken in the Rule V draft are often projects. Players that teams feel they can "hide" on a roster for a year. Teams do this because they believe in the long term potential of the player. Many times, the player is kept in the Majors for a year in a limited role, and then sent back to the minor leagues the following year.

For a team to take a gamble on a player does not automatically assume they think he is one of their best 25 players.

jabrch
11-27-2004, 03:09 PM
You seem to be missing the ins and outs of the Rule V draft. The players taken in the Rule V draft are often projects. Players that teams feel they can "hide" on a roster for a year. Teams do this because they believe in the long term potential of the player. Many times, the player is kept in the Majors for a year in a limited role, and then sent back to the minor leagues the following year.

For a team to take a gamble on a player does not automatically assume they think he is one of their best 25 players.

I am not missing the point of anything. I just don't think it is worth wasting a roster spot on a guy who pitched as poorly as Sisco did last year in SINGLE A.

Jjav829
11-27-2004, 03:56 PM
I am not missing the point of anything. I just don't think it is worth wasting a roster spot on a guy who pitched as poorly as Sisco did last year in SINGLE A.But it is worth it for some teams. Maybe teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. who will be contending next year don't feel the need to keep a project on their roster. But for teams that won't be contending next year, and believe the player has some good long term potential, it is well worth it. As munchman mentioned, teams like the Pirates, Reds, Devil Rays, etc. would be wise to take that chance. Those teams (for the most part) will be not spending any big money to bring in pitching, so they need to look at alternatives. If they see a guy like Sisco as a potential top of the rotation pitcher, then it's worth it to take him. They can use him as a long man for a year, and work with him. Once they get him working with their coaches, if they see progress, they can keep him around for the full year. At the end of the year they can either send him back to the minors or keep him with the big squad if they've seen enough progress.

pearso66
11-27-2004, 04:02 PM
I tend to agree with Jjav. And would not be against the Sox doing the same. We dont have a huge payroll, and I would rather use the money for a #5 and 1 middle reliever, then we could pick up say Sisco, or Ring, and have him as a cheap option in the pen. If it doesnt work out, i mean they cant be much worse than Big Jon Adkins could they, they simply send them back, or as they did with Grilli, offer up some money to keep him.

benjamin
11-27-2004, 04:32 PM
4-10 in 25 starts with a 4+ ERA in Single A? I don't see it - I don't see how a team keeps him on the 25 man roster.
In 1999 a lefty pitcher went 8-8 with a 4.66 ERA in 26 starts at Single A.
He was then taken in the Rule V draft prior to the 2000 season and produced a 6.49 ERA in 86.0 innings that season for Minnesota.

In 2004 he won the Cy Young for Minnesota.

The point? There are far more important numbers to look at in determining the future value of a pitcher than his ERA and W/L record at Single-A.

Not saying that Sisco will ever amount to anything, let alone come anywhere close to doing what Johan Santana has done, but there will certainly be teams willing to take a chance.

Mohoney
11-28-2004, 03:11 AM
I would definitely take the guy and give him a look in Spring Training. If nothing else, it puts a little heat on Neal Cotts to actually produce, since Sisco throws harder.

Who knows, he might impress enough to justify carrying 12 pitchers. He might snuff Adkins out of our lives forever. Either way, another lefty is needed to take at least some workload off Marte, and so far, Neal Cotts doesn't appear to be able to do it himself.

I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that we aren't adding a back-end guy to this bullpen, so now I'm kind of hoping that we give guys like this (and Bajenaru too, if I get my way) a chance in Spring Training and pray for lightning in a bottle, as opposed to signing a washed-up Mike Jackson and just handing a roster spot to Jon Adkins, which is pure crap in a bottle.

A bullpen looking something like this is not going to dazzle anyone, but I think it will be adequate enough if we add a front-line starter that can give 250 innings like Randy Johnson and acquire another solid starter like Jon Lieber to push Contreras to 5th:

Grilli (long man)
Cotts (3rd lefty option if Sisco outperforms him)
Bajenaru (3rd righty option, takes Adkins' spot)
Sisco (2nd lefty option if he outperforms Cotts)
Politte (late inning righty guy)
Marte (late inning lefty guy)
Shingo (closer)

I would be willing to take my chances that out of Sisco, Cotts, and Bajenaru, at least one has a really good season, as long as the starting rotation is revamped and looks like this:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Lieber
Contreras

With a starting rotation that will win at least 75 games and will lose less than 55, I have enough confidence that this bullpen and the offense can combine to win 18-20 of the remaining 36 games and win us this division.

I think that the aforementioned rotation is a mortal lock to go a combined 20 games over .500, so if our offense and bullpen can combine to win just a few more close games than they lose, we could be talking about 93-95 wins here.

34 Inch Stick
11-29-2004, 11:16 AM
If the Cubs are willing to take next to nothing for him and the Sox like him, why not make a low level trade so that he can develop with the team long term?

jabrch
11-29-2004, 11:33 AM
If the Cubs are willing to take next to nothing for him and the Sox like him, why not make a low level trade so that he can develop with the team long term?
The Cubs aren't willing to take next to nothing for him. They just (rightfully so) doubt that any team is willing to take him and put him on their MLB roster all year. Maybe there is a team that has no intentions of contending and will burn a roster spot on him - its possible. But I don't see the Sox doing that.

serena
11-29-2004, 11:57 AM
The Cubs aren't willing to take next to nothing for him. They just (rightfully so) doubt that any team is willing to take him and put him on their MLB roster all year. Maybe there is a team that has no intentions of contending and will burn a roster spot on him - its possible. But I don't see the Sox doing that.
Also, my understanding is that the minor league rosters are now frozen until the end of the Rule 5 draft. Eligible minor leaguers who would be included in any trades that take place have to be PTBNLs to see whether they're still the property of the trading team after the draft. So, either way, there'd be a wait to see if Sisco is picked in the draft, which seems likely.

Several posters here know more about roster transactions; feel free to correct if this is wrong.

TheBull19
11-30-2004, 06:10 AM
With a starting rotation that will win at least 75 games and will lose less than 55, I have enough confidence that this bullpen and the offense can combine to win 18-20 of the remaining 36 games and win us this division.

I think that the aforementioned rotation is a mortal lock to go a combined 20 games over .500, so if our offense and bullpen can combine to win just a few more close games than they lose, we could be talking about 93-95 wins here.
It'd be tough for any rotation to win that many games when the bullpen is blowing all their leads. The way I see it, the sox already have one of the top 5 rotations in the AL - just get a couple cheap veterans to compete for the 5th spot/long relief and spend the money on the bullpen. In this era, adding a few good arms in the bullpen is the easiest and cheapest way, IMHO, to improve a mediocre team. I don't think the sox can compete with that bullpen.

Flight #24
11-30-2004, 03:35 PM
I doubt Sisco lasts to the Cubs. Here's one Rule 5 preview that has him rated pretty much as the most desireable guy in the draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=MLB&storyid=7572

Other potential interesting names for the Sox based on their analysis:

Davis Romero - LHP (Blue Jays)
Drew Meyer - SS (Texas)
Tyler Johnson - LHP (St. Louis)
Colt Griffin - RHP (KC)
Jason Cooper - OF (Cleveland)