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View Full Version : How we can improve our team (fan retreat)


DumpJerry
11-26-2004, 01:06 AM
I have an idea how we, the fans and the Pale Hose, can play a bigger hand in the improvement of our beloved team. Bear with me....

While we have as many opinions as members here about who should be traded, not traded, signed, not signed, etc., one universal is that we want the Sox to do as well as possible and to make the experience of being a Sox fan as enjoyable as possible. To that end, a first place finish and a WS winner with 40,000+ at just about every home game is the goal. If the Sox have a season with excited attendance numbers and a winning record, the local and national media will start to become more positive (and our frustrations over the Flubs' coverage will be lessened).

My proposal is that about 60 or so of us spend a whole day with Sox front office staff on a "fan retreat." I"m not talking about meeting with Kenny Williams to tell him who to sign, but more along the lines of Brooks and the customer relations staff to discuss how to better market the team for ticket sales. If we have 60 people there, we can break out into groups of 10 or so with an employee to brainstorm. We can tell the staff what we enjoy and don't enjoy about the White Sox Experience. I feel that the Sox have many assets that they do not use to market themselves which the Flubs cannot use. Namely, of the two teams, Comiskey is by far much more family-friendly. All my friends who go to both mention that in a heartbeat, even Flub fans admit it. We have a friendlier atmosphere, better food and more knowledgable fans.

If we can set up a retreat like this I think it will shake up the marketing approach of the Sox to the team's benefit. The hard part will be to figure out how to choose the people who would do this if the team thinks this would be a good idea.

I don't know of any pro sports team that has done something like this, it would be a novel approach to marketing.

What do you guys think of this?

HomeFish
11-26-2004, 01:22 AM
If Reinsdorf has any desire to stay alive, he will not let 60 White Sox fans into his office.

FightingBillini
11-26-2004, 01:29 AM
:reinsy
"Hey, 'Dump Jerry', I don't tell you how to flip burgers or sell insurance or whatever it is you do, don't tell me how to cheat the common man. Or wait, no. Please, come to the retreat. That way, I can do the exact opposite of what you guys decide!! Muahahahahaha. You know, ever since Rob Galas left, the White Sox have become a lot more fan friendly. I don't care for that. We aren't gonna give the fans what they want because the fans are stupid. You will get what we want you to have, and like it. Home run porch? Main entrance behind homeplate? New grand entrance in left field? Green seats? A WINNING BALLCLUB?!?! Muahahahaha. [shakes head]
You just keep on talking, smart guy. You will get purple seats with the outside of the park painted like a Pepsi delivery truck. Oh, and those statues we started putting on the outfield concourse... the next one will be a giant one of Bob's Big Boy. Oh, and those rumors you heard of us hiring Bobby Bonilla, they are true. He will be our new right fielder. Muahahaha. How's that for fan friendly?!"

soxnut
11-26-2004, 11:35 AM
Sounds like a good idea. I'd be willing to participate. I emailed Brooks a few weeks ago asking him about the new agency they are using in their marketing efforts.



Here is a response from Brooks :
Two by Four will be great. They are immersing themselves in our culture at this point and doing a ton of research on our team, our fans and our brand. I am supremely confident that we have selected the right agency to help us with our advertising plans

Lip Man 1
11-26-2004, 01:14 PM
Historical notation:

Two examples of what happened when Uncle Jerry met the fans.

Last January at the Sox fantasy camp according to Ed Herrmann, the fans got so angry at Uncle Jerry in a Q & A that Bill Melton had to step in to try to calm down the discussion. (You can read the entire story in the Sox Fantasy Camp story here at WSI).

A few years ago, in the late 90's, Uncle Jerry had a 'town hall' meeting with Sox season ticket holders. A group of fans started saying that if Uncle Jerry wasn't going to start spending money he should sell the team. Uncle Jerry told them to 'shut up.' (direct quote). That comment made national news when it was reported in Sports Illustrated.

Uncle Jerry you understand never cared much for the fans. Putting him in a situation where he is clearly uncomfortable and on the defensive is an accident waiting to happen and embarass this franchise even further.

Lip

Wealz
11-26-2004, 01:21 PM
Historical notation:

Two examples of what happened when Uncle Jerry met the fans.

Last January at the Sox fantasy camp according to Ed Herrmann, the fans got so angry at Uncle Jerry in a Q & A that Bill Melton had to step in to try to calm down the discussion. (You can read the entire story in the Sox Fantasy Camp story here at WSI).

A few years ago, in the late 90's, Uncle Jerry had a 'town hall' meeting with Sox season ticket holders. A group of fans started saying that if Uncle Jerry wasn't going to start spending money he should sell the team. Uncle Jerry told them to 'shut up.' (direct quote). That comment made national news when it was reported in Sports Illustrated.

Uncle Jerry you understand never cared much for the fans. Putting him in a situation where he is clearly uncomfortable and on the defensive is an accident waiting to happen and embarass this franchise even further.

Lip
Who cares if he "cares about the fans"? I mean, how do you quantify that anyway?

Hangar18
11-26-2004, 01:28 PM
Who cares if he "cares about the fans"? I mean, how do you quantify that anyway?
Not caring about the Fans is in Chapter 1 in "How Not to Win a World Championship"

Lip Man 1
11-26-2004, 01:32 PM
Wealz:

How's this.....saying that the franchise won't spend unless fans show up. Directly opposite of the way EVERY other MLB club operates as well as any business.

Good enough for you?

Lip

Wealz
11-26-2004, 01:35 PM
Not caring about the Fans is in Chapter 1 in "How Not to Win a World Championship"
You're just making stuff up.

Reinsdorf's 6-time World Champion Chicago Bulls?

Wealz
11-26-2004, 01:37 PM
Wealz:

How's this.....saying that the franchise won't spend unless fans show up. Directly opposite of the way EVERY other MLB club operates as well as any business.

Good enough for you?

Lip
No, not good enough for me Lip. Your just as bad as Hangar.

Lip Man 1
11-26-2004, 01:44 PM
Wealz:

Kenny Williams said almost the exact same thing last spring...remember all the uproar over his comment that if the Sox draw well in April / May, then they'll have the ability to do something player wise in July?

As I recall Hal Vickary (Torn Labrum) had a long post about this philosophy.

****.....seeing only what they want to see.....$$$$$

Lip

Wealz
11-26-2004, 01:52 PM
Wealz:

Kenny Williams said almost the exact same thing last spring...remember all the uproar over his comment that if the Sox draw well in April / May, then they'll have the ability to do something player wise in July?

As I recall Hal Vickary (Torn Labrum) had a long post about this philosophy.

****.....seeing only what they want to see.....$$$$$

Lip Lip, how does that translate into not caring about his fans? There are plenty of reasons to be unhappy with Reinsdorf's tenure as owner without having to make stuff up.

CubKilla
11-26-2004, 02:10 PM
The White Sox do have a fan retreat. It's called SoxFest where JR usually never fields questions and KW, to his credit, takes the majority of punishment and insults hurled by Sox fans that would rather say it to JR but JR is too chicken **** to stay and listen to by his $$$$-spending fan base.

soxnut
11-26-2004, 05:20 PM
Historical notation:

A few years ago, in the late 90's, Uncle Jerry had a 'town hall' meeting with Sox season ticket holders. A group of fans started saying that if Uncle Jerry wasn't going to start spending money he should sell the team. Uncle Jerry told them to 'shut up.' (direct quote). That comment made national news when it was reported in Sports Illustrated.
Lip


I remember hearing something about this before on this site. I asked someone about the situation, and if any of the fans were getting loud and jerky...as i suspect they did....and I was right, so I don't blame Jery for saying that, I probably would have said the same thing. I know how some fans get, and they're ridiculous. And of course a media outlet would print what he said, and of course it can always be taken out of context for entertainment purposes.

Lip Man 1
11-26-2004, 09:46 PM
Wealz says: 'making it up...'

Making it up? Hell the comment was reported in every Chicago newspaper and discussed at length on this web site. With that type of comment Wealz I don't know if you are just drunk or unable to see reality.

As far as Uncle Jerry's 'shut up' comment. My point was that putting our owner into this type of situation which he obviously hates and immediately gets defensive is an accident waiting to happen. Also keep in mind good ol' Uncle Jerry is the CEO of a multimillion dollar company. CEO's DO NOT lower themselves like he did and make national news in doing so (tends to harm the organization...) He had security there, he should have shut up and used it.

Lip

Wealz
11-26-2004, 10:02 PM
Wealz says: 'making it up...'

Making it up? Hell the comment was reported in every Chicago newspaper and discussed at length on this web site. With that type of comment Wealz I don't know if you are just drunk or unable to see reality.

As far as Uncle Jerry's 'shut up' comment. My point was that putting our owner into this type of situation which he obviously hates and immediately gets defensive is an accident waiting to happen. Also keep in mind good ol' Uncle Jerry is the CEO of a multimillion dollar company. CEO's DO NOT lower themselves like he did and make national news in doing so (tends to harm the organization...) He had security there, he should have shut up and used it.

Lip
Tell me how his comments means he doesn't "care" about the fans? Truth is you have no idea how the guy "feels" about the fans.

ewokpelts
11-27-2004, 11:30 AM
You're just making stuff up.

Reinsdorf's 6-time World Champion Chicago Bulls?two words: michael jordan
Gene

Lip Man 1
11-27-2004, 03:08 PM
Wealz:

Because as I stated, he doesn't give a damn about the fans because if he did he wouldn't have pulled off some of the stupid things that he did to alienate his own fan base. Does the White Flag Deal and the 94 labor war ring a bell?

How about SportsVision, and forcing out Harry Caray ? (or was that before your time?) How about threatening to move a team that had been in Chicago for over 80 years unless he got a state paid ballpark?

Maybe his part in the collusion tactics of the mid 80's that gave Sox fans absolute garbage teams from 86 through 89?

Uncle Jerry is a bottom line guy. That directly contradicts any chance to give a damn about the fans.

"He loved baseball and had expended much energy in the running of the White Sox, but his involvement in baseball had created one public relations disaster after another. By Reinsdorf’s own admission, his early threats to move the team out of Chicago if he didn’t get public cooperation in building a new Comiskey Park became the bedrock of his negative public image. In the wake of that came his role in the ugly relations between baseball’s owners and players. Added to that were the machinations over his tinkering with the White Sox roster. Many of the owners initiatives have been misinterpreted or misunderstood by the public, largely because Reinsdorf seemed to disdain the process of communicating with the fans of the teams he managed. ‘I don’t care about public relations,’ had been Reinsdorf’s patent answer on these issues. What Reinsdorf appeared to mean was that he didn’t care about popularity contests. But that disdain for the process had often come across as a disregard for the fans, his paying customers." – Roland Lazenby From the book Blood On The Horns. Pgs. 91-92.

Perception (based with some historical facts) has become reality and it's killing this franchise.

Lip

Wealz
11-27-2004, 03:57 PM
Wealz:

Because as I stated, he doesn't give a damn about the fans because if he did he wouldn't have pulled off some of the stupid things that he did to alienate his own fan base. Does the White Flag Deal and the 94 labor war ring a bell?

How about SportsVision, and forcing out Harry Caray ? (or was that before your time?) How about threatening to move a team that had been in Chicago for over 80 years unless he got a state paid ballpark?

Maybe his part in the collusion tactics of the mid 80's that gave Sox fans absolute garbage teams from 86 through 89?

Uncle Jerry is a bottom line guy. That directly contradicts any chance to give a damn about the fans.

"He loved baseball and had expended much energy in the running of the White Sox, but his involvement in baseball had created one public relations disaster after another. By Reinsdorf’s own admission, his early threats to move the team out of Chicago if he didn’t get public cooperation in building a new Comiskey Park became the bedrock of his negative public image. In the wake of that came his role in the ugly relations between baseball’s owners and players. Added to that were the machinations over his tinkering with the White Sox roster. Many of the owners initiatives have been misinterpreted or misunderstood by the public, largely because Reinsdorf seemed to disdain the process of communicating with the fans of the teams he managed. ‘I don’t care about public relations,’ had been Reinsdorf’s patent answer on these issues. What Reinsdorf appeared to mean was that he didn’t care about popularity contests. But that disdain for the process had often come across as a disregard for the fans, his paying customers." – Roland Lazenby From the book Blood On The Horns. Pgs. 91-92.

Perception (based with some historical facts) has become reality and it's killing this franchise.

Lip
Lip, for whatever reason, you hold a grudge against Reinsdorf and your opinion of the guy has to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt because of it.

santo=dorf
11-27-2004, 04:05 PM
Lip, for whatever reason, you hold a grudge against Reinsdorf and your opinion of the guy has to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt because of it.
Can you understand why? He made some great points about Reinsdorf that you didn't address.

I love how you talk about people holding grudges against members of Sox management, yet you are ALWAYS on KW's case. Who has been here longer; Reinsdorf or KW?

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/****.jpg

Wealz
11-27-2004, 04:12 PM
Can you understand why? He made some great points about Reinsdorf that you didn't address.

I love how you talk about people holding grudges against members of Sox management, yet you are ALWAYS on KW's case. Who has been here longer; Reinsdorf or KW?
Reinsdorf had made a lot of bad hires, it doesn't make him evil. Kenny Williams is incompetent at his job, I don't hate the man.

DumpJerry
11-27-2004, 04:42 PM
Hey guys, as you can tell from my screen name, I'm not big fan of JR. When I proposed a retreat, I never dreamt that JR would be part of it. Of course, he is the final decisionmaker, so it may be a futile effort. My point is that a retreat could give the team some ideas on how to make money, not spend it (we would not be using it to tell KW who to sign and for how much), something that gets JR's attention.

The crimes against humanity committed by JR are numerous. I think they have been magnified in my mind because my four years of high school coincided with the four years Veeck owned the team. Talk about fun at the old ballpark! JR's first offense was to prevent me from sitting in my seats. Veeck never sold the reserved grandstand seats in the right field upper deck. My friends and I would buy our $2.00 (later $3.00) general admission tickets and plop down in the front of the upper deck. Every game. Even disco demolition night. When we went to the first game under the JR era, we were asked for our tickets!!:angry: It went downhill from there, never uphill. At one point in the early 80's I was so angry at JR, I went on strike, only going to games if the ticket was provided to me by someone else and would not buy any concessions, he was not to get one red dime from me.

I then went on a total strike after the '94 debacle. Sat out '95 and most of '96. I finally ended my strike by saying that I did not want to deny myself the pleasure of seeing my Sox play. So, since then I've allowed myself to go to Comiskey and enjoy myself, but will never say anything good about JR.

I think some of the people who defend JR or downplay the hostility fans feel towards him are probably either too young to remember a more fan-friendly ownership or moved to Chicago after 1980 and have thought this is how things have always been.

I think my idea of a retreat is a concession that we're stuck with this guy, so we should make the best of a bad situation. I don't think Sox management would actually do it, they spend a lot of $$ on focus groups, etc., to tell them what people think. I hope they check out the postings on WSI and can remain objective when reading the hostilities directed towards the boss to see that there are some excellent ideas for the team.

Maybe we should have our own retreat and send Brooks a summary of recommendations?

Lip Man 1
11-27-2004, 11:30 PM
Wealz says: "Reinsdorf had made a lot of bad hires, it doesn't make him evil."

Wealz I never said he was the devil incarnate did I, but your statement of bad hires perfectly explains the state and shape of this franchise. Uncle Jerry is the CEO of a multimillion dollar organization. If Uncle Jerry ran a 'regular' business venture as bad as he's run the Sox in the past 25 years, the board of directors would have canned his ass years ago simply on the grounds of losing so much of his own home market.

What we can conclude from your comment is exactly what PHG has been saying...White Sox baseball: cheap, timid and stupid... and Uncle Jerry's hirings PROVE that statement as fact.

Lip

SouthSide_HitMen
11-28-2004, 03:13 AM
two words: michael jordan
Gene
Players don't win championships. Jerry Reinsdorf owned / managed organizations win championships.