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Vsahajpal
10-13-2001, 07:39 PM
Mesa won the 1st game 7-6 on a 7th inning walkoff HR off the bat of Mets DH Earl Snyder.


2b Tim Hummel batted 2nd behind Bobby Hill.

In his first AB, after Hill walked to lead off the game, Hummel also drew a 5 pitch walk.

In his 2nd AB with 1 out, after Hill walked, Hummel drew another 5 pitch walk.

In his 3rd AB, after Hill stuck out looking, Hummel struck out looking.

In his 4th AB, after Hill drilled a single to right, Hummel fouled to 1st.


The biggest news of the day, besides Mike Piazza's Hall of Fame induction & speech, was Borchard's awakening.

Borchard batted 5th once again, and in his first at bat, he smashed a line drive through the box, almost catching the pitcher square in the jaw. Hill would score on the play.

2 batters later, Borchard would score on an Al Benjamin single.


In his 2nd AB, Borchard was turned around to face LHP Jeremy Affeldt of the Royals. He worked the count full before smashing a double down the left field line. He would come into score the 4th run of the game.

In his final AB, Borchard struck out on a low fastball.


Tim Hummel started the 2nd game of the DH at 2b.

He leadoff the game with a double to the left centerfield gap. I can't emphasize enough how much I'm impressed with the way he consistently makes contact (when he's not drawing walks). Ball jumps off his bat, nice level line drive stroke.

In his 2nd AB, he beat out a swinging bunt, 4.5 down the line.

I left after the 4th, so he probably had one more AB.


Randar, I spoke to a gentleman from the Mets organization, and while he wouldn't comment on Wells or Lee trade value, he said that Rowand does have some value, that he reminds him of Trot Nixon of the Red Sox. Said he wouldn't be surprised to see the Dodgers and Sox battle for Johnny Damon, nor would he be surprised to see Lee traded.

Daver
10-13-2001, 07:45 PM
I would love to see Lee traded.Rowand on the other hand is a player I would like to see stay here.

Vsahajpal
10-13-2001, 07:50 PM
Oh yeah, Mario Valezuela hit a mammoth HR to left center, and added an RBI double in the 1st game.


Daver, I on the other hand would love to see Borchard and Hummel traded north. Yep, Ricky Gutierrez would look good in black and silver...

Daver
10-13-2001, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Oh yeah, Mario Valezuela hit a mammoth HR to left center, and added an RBI double in the 1st game.


Daver, I on the other hand would love to see Borchard and Hummel traded north. Yep, Ricky Gutierrez would look good in black and silver...

OK Ricky,K.Wood,John Leiber,and Corey Patterson and you have a deal.You have to take Royce as a throw in though.

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Randar, I spoke to a gentleman from the Mets organization, and while he wouldn't comment on Wells or Lee trade value, he said that Rowand does have some value, that he reminds him of Trot Nixon of the Red Sox. Said he wouldn't be surprised to see the Dodgers and Sox battle for Johnny Damon, nor would he be surprised to see Lee traded.

If the Sox can get Damon then for sure Lee or Rowand is gone. Most likely Lee for a pitcher.

CerberusWG
10-13-2001, 08:52 PM
Yes, Patterson, he's the next Willie Mays! LOL! BTW, nice quote about Royce daver :)

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Yes, Patterson, he's the next Willie Mays!


We don't need Patterson we have my guy Juilo.

:gun
I'll just sit here in Charlotte and wait for the call.
Hello...hello....is any one there?

Daver
10-13-2001, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

:gun
I'll just sit here in Charlotte and wait for the call.
Hello...hello....is any one there?

I think Julio will lead a lonely life sitting by the phone waiting for the call.
Perhaps he should get his bat and learn how to hit big league pitching instead.

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by daver
I think Julio will lead a lonely life sitting by the phone waiting for the call.
Perhaps he should get his bat and learn how to hit big league pitching instead.


He should but sadly I think he is a faster and better defensive version of McKay Christensen.

Daver
10-13-2001, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



He should but sadly I think he is a faster and better defensive version of McKay Christensen.

He is,but he will never make it if he can't hit MLB pitching.
The bad part is he may have one of the best arms I have ever seen in an outfeilder.What a waste.

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by daver
He is,but he will never make it if he can't hit MLB pitching.
The bad part is he may have one of the best arms I have ever seen in an outfeilder.What a waste.


Well the problem is he doesn't have a spot on the Sox anyway. With Rowand, Borchard and Singleton center is crowded. Unless they dump Singleton and use Juilo as a defensive replacement.

Daver
10-13-2001, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



Well the problem is he doesn't have a spot on the Sox anyway. With Rowand, Borchard and Singleton center is crowded. Unless they dump Singleton and use Juilo as a defensive replacement.

I doubt Borchard makes this team out of ST.

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by daver
I doubt Borchard makes this team out of ST.

I was talking about the future. But I agree Borchard won't make the team out of spring training. But I wouldn't mind Singleton being moved. Sorry CLR.

Chisox_cali
10-13-2001, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I was talking about the future. But I agree Borchard won't make the team out of spring training. But I wouldn't mind Singleton being moved. Sorry CLR.

If CLee and Singleton are traded than who would you want in LF and CF

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
If CLee and Singleton are traded than who would you want in LF and CF

Well they won't move both of them. If Lee gets traded then Rowand plays left or Liefer with Chris in center. If Chris is traded then Rowand plays center with Lee in left. But there has been some talk of the Sox going after Damon which I don't believe. But to answer your question if both Chris and Carlos are traded Maggs plays left with Rowand in center and Borchard in right.

Chisox_cali
10-13-2001, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Maggs plays left with Rowand in center and Borchard in right.

That there is my dream Sox outfield for 02 Unless Joe has a lights out ST it aint happening however

Daver
10-13-2001, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


If CLee and Singleton are traded than who would you want in LF and CF

I am assuming that only one will be traded,Aaron Rowand should be your starting left feilder.If Singleton is traded you will have Rowand in CF and Leifer in LF

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by daver
I am assuming that only one will be traded,Aaron Rowand should be your starting left feilder.If Singleton is traded you will have Rowand in CF and Leifer in LF

As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near 3rd base I'm happy.


:crede
It's my time.

KempersRS
10-13-2001, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near 3rd base I'm happy.


:crede
It's my time.

As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near Comiskey, I am happy.

Daver
10-13-2001, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near Comiskey, I am happy.

They won't give up on him easy,he is a lefty with power.

:)

Chisox_cali
10-13-2001, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near Comiskey, I am happy.

I'll be happy if he's just nowhere near the starting lineup, bench is fine by me

Jerry_Manuel
10-13-2001, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near Comiskey, I am happy.

Well if Juilo could hit he could play center with Rowand in left. But he can't.

doublem23
10-13-2001, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Daver, I on the other hand would love to see Borchard and Hummel traded north. Yep, Ricky Gutierrez would look good in black and silver...

Borchard? To the Cubs?

That one needs an explanation....

Vsahajpal
10-13-2001, 11:06 PM
what's to explain?

Guy's hitting about a buck twenty in Arizona, I figure before Ken Williams realizes this and releases him, he can salvage what's left and ship him north for a SS.


heh

Daver
10-13-2001, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
what's to explain?

Guy's hitting about a buck twenty in Arizona, I figure before Ken Williams realizes this and releases him, he can salvage what's left and ship him north for a SS.


heh

Hey V do you accept my trade proposal or not?

Vsahajpal
10-13-2001, 11:28 PM
No, I couldn't do that.

But if the Sox compete next year as I predict they will, and the Cubs hover around .500 as I predict they will, I would trade Lieber to the Sox for Borchard.

Would the Sox do it? Interesting...

Daver
10-13-2001, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
No, I couldn't do that.

But if the Sox compete next year as I predict they will, and the Cubs hover around .500 as I predict they will, I would trade Lieber to the Sox for Borchard.

Would the Sox do it? Interesting...

I think Lieber had a career year this year,and the upside of Borchard is large,so the deal will not wash next year.I agree that the Sox will be in the hunt next year,will the Cubs?

Vsahajpal
10-13-2001, 11:40 PM
It's possible, but I hope not at the expense of Patterson and Bobby Hill getting to play everdyay.

Houston will lose Astacio, Castilla, and Alou.

Edmonds, MacGwire, and Kile are starting to decline

but the Reds look to be strong if they find some pitching.

who knows?

Pete Ward
10-14-2001, 08:35 AM
Reality Check:

I wouldnt count on Borchard making the team out of spring training...will need some more AAA AB's.

Sox KW has said we need a vet in starting rotation... look for someone like Gil Heridia of A's. Sox will go after a cheeeep vet, Heridia had success with A's and is coming off arm problems. Sox will try to get Wells in rotation if he accepts incentive laden deal, but they need someone else besides him to fill out rotation with young kids.

Johnnie Damon - NO WAY... Boras is his agent. Watch Boras pitch his .256 hitting CF as a $10 mil a year man. No way Sox will pay that. They would rather have Singleton than Boras/ Damon $.

My 2 pennies

LongDistanceFan
10-14-2001, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Pete Ward
Reality Check:

I wouldnt count on Borchard making the team out of spring training...will need some more AAA AB's.

Sox KW has said we need a vet in starting rotation... look for someone like Gil Heridia of A's. Sox will go after a cheeeep vet, Heridia had success with A's and is coming off arm problems. Sox will try to get Wells in rotation if he accepts incentive laden deal, but they need someone else besides him to fill out rotation with young kids.

Johnnie Damon - NO WAY... Boras is his agent. Watch Boras pitch his .256 hitting CF as a $10 mil a year man. No way Sox will pay that. They would rather have Singleton than Boras/ Damon $.

My 2 pennies i was of the impression that borchard might make the club this spring... however after reading the excellent updates, i have now change my opinion. johnny damon, the cost is too steep for my liking. spend that money on a catcher if there is one to be had...... meaning charles johnson.

LongDistanceFan
10-14-2001, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


Randar, I spoke to a gentleman from the Mets organization, and while he wouldn't comment on Wells or Lee trade value, he said that Rowand does have some value, that he reminds him of Trot Nixon of the Red Sox. Said he wouldn't be surprised to see the Dodgers and Sox battle for Johnny Damon, nor would he be surprised to see Lee traded. you know a question that has been bothering me......... its royce clayton and other scouts or gm thoughts of him, esp the sizzling 2nd half performance he had.

those who support rc........ i am not starting anything, i am asking a question of a scout.......

Iguana775
10-14-2001, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by KempersRS


As long as Liefer isn't anywhere near Comiskey, I am happy.

i agree. i really dont like him.

kermittheefrog
10-14-2001, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Randar, I spoke to a gentleman from the Mets organization, and while he wouldn't comment on Wells or Lee trade value, he said that Rowand does have some value, that he reminds him of Trot Nixon of the Red Sox. Said he wouldn't be surprised to see the Dodgers and Sox battle for Johnny Damon, nor would he be surprised to see Lee traded.

Rowand similar to Nixon? Nixon walked 79 times in 535 ABs this year. Rowand has walked 74 times in 984 ABs over the last two years. If you expand Nixon's numbers to include last year he's got 962 ABs and 142 walks. Almost twice as many walks as Rowand over two years. That's keeping in mind Rowand faced minor league pitching in 88% of those ABs. Does the guy you talked to from the Mets know anything about plate discipline?

Spiff
10-14-2001, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Rowand similar to Nixon? Nixon walked 79 times in 535 ABs this year. Rowand has walked 74 times in 984 ABs over the last two years. If you expand Nixon's numbers to include last year he's got 962 ABs and 142 walks. Almost twice as many walks as Rowand over two years. That's keeping in mind Rowand faced minor league pitching in 88% of those ABs. Does the guy you talked to from the Mets know anything about plate discipline?

How do you walk in an at-bat?

And also, Rowand is alot younger than Nixon. He has time to learn discipline. Nobody said he was an exact replica.

kermittheefrog
10-14-2001, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


How do you walk in an at-bat?

And also, Rowand is alot younger than Nixon. He has time to learn discipline. Nobody said he was an exact replica.

You dont' walk in at-bats, at bats is just an easily accessable way to measure playing time. Realistically I'd like to know the number of plate appearances they both had but most statsheets don't list PAs, they list ABs and it's too much time to add up the number of PAs. I could have said "X walks compared to Y ABs" but the only time this comes up is when people want to be annoyingly anal and make stupid arguments against me with no basis other than the persons own bias.

There is also the fact that's it's really rare for a player to learn to be disciplined at the plate. Take 15 minutes and look at the career stats of a bunch of veterans. You won't find a lot of guys who learned to be patient. Guys learn to be patient when they are really young, when they are in the low minors or in college. Not in the majors, Sammy Sosa learned to be patient but guys like him are few and far between.

Spiff
10-14-2001, 07:34 PM
Whatever I agree with the Nixon-Rowand comparison. Like many people have reminded you, stats aren't everything. They both play hard. Usually scouts just don't throw out random comparisons.

kermittheefrog
10-14-2001, 09:58 PM
Stats may not be everything but a big part of Trot Nixon's game is walking. Rowand is a hacker and doesn't walk a lot. Without the walks Rowand wouldn't be half as valuable as Nixon.

Vsahajpal
10-14-2001, 10:10 PM
I don't know much about either, except that Nixon was a #1 pick. With that being the case, I took his comments at face value; they both play hard, Rowand has to develop as a hitter, but they both have good pop, and play well defensively.