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View Full Version : Renteria and Dye top priorities?


lowesox
11-23-2004, 08:07 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3147942

Just saw this - and it's probably BS, but there haven't been a lot of new threads around here lately, so I thought I'd post it.

I like the idea of us getting Renteria. He's the one guy out there I'd be willing to really pony up for. Especially if we could acquire a cheap speedster for the leadoff spot (Dave Roberts maybe?).

I think Renteria, a leadoff outfielder, and 3 new arms (1 sp, 2 relievers) could put us in a decent position to win next season.

HomeFish
11-23-2004, 08:09 AM
Renteria is coming to Chicago, but not to the South Side. Except during interleague play.

wdelaney72
11-23-2004, 08:14 AM
Agreed. Renteria will be playing his home games at the urinal next year.

Rocky Soprano
11-23-2004, 08:30 AM
They have Ross Gload as our DH. Did they forgot about Frank?

Jjav829
11-23-2004, 08:38 AM
Well, we've heard rumblings about the Sox having interest in Renteria and Dye, so this isn't much of a surprise. I'm torn on Renteria. I like him, and I think he's a good player, but he's probably going to be highly overpaid. If any of the rumors about him receiving $10 million or more are true, I hope the Sox step away. We can argue about whether Renteria is that much better than Uribe, but for $7+ million more a season, it's not worth finding out.

As far as Dye goes, why? I mean we already have an injury prone right fielder on the roster making $4 million. Where would he fit in? Surely it won't be on the bench. Unless Lee is traded and Everett moves to left, Dye doesn't make much sense.

Brian26
11-23-2004, 09:11 AM
Renteria might be the one free agent worth the money that could fill several holes in this lineup.

kraut83
11-23-2004, 09:11 AM
I would rather see us pick up Placido Polanco at 2B, and spend the difference between he and Renteria on a solid #3 or 4 starter.

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2004, 09:14 AM
I would rather see us pick up Placido Polanco at 2B, and spend the difference between he and Renteria on a solid #3 or 4 starter.I'd rather skip both of them and get a solid #1 starter.

lowesox
11-23-2004, 09:25 AM
I would rather see us pick up Placido Polanco at 2B, and spend the difference between he and Renteria on a solid #3 or 4 starter.
Apparently Polanco has several suitors, so he might now be as cheap as some believe.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182000


Another former Cardinal, Placido Polanco (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85799), would be a better fit, but price again might be the issue. The Red Sox (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71588) are looking at Polanco as a super-utility man, and several other clubs also are interested in him.

SEALgep
11-23-2004, 10:02 AM
Well, we've heard rumblings about the Sox having interest in Renteria and Dye, so this isn't much of a surprise. I'm torn on Renteria. I like him, and I think he's a good player, but he's probably going to be highly overpaid. If any of the rumors about him receiving $10 million or more are true, I hope the Sox step away. We can argue about whether Renteria is that much better than Uribe, but for $7+ million more a season, it's not worth finding out.

As far as Dye goes, why? I mean we already have an injury prone right fielder on the roster making $4 million. Where would he fit in? Surely it won't be on the bench. Unless Lee is traded and Everett moves to left, Dye doesn't make much sense.In large part I agree, but you have to admit, a middle infield defense of Renteria and Uribe sounds appealing.

SEALgep
11-23-2004, 10:04 AM
Apparently Polanco has several suitors, so he might now be as cheap as some believe.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182000True, but some of the power house team interest supposedly are wanting him to be a super utility man. It's very possible he'd rather sign as a starter.

jabrch
11-23-2004, 10:06 AM
Apparently Polanco has several suitors, so he might now be as cheap as some believe.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182000
Polanco seems to be the trendy, high OBP type guy that teams are salavating over. He's got a decent glove, and can get on - but for maybe 3mm more than Todd Walker or 4mm more than Ton Womack, 5mm more than Wee Willie, I am inclined to pass.

Flight #24
11-23-2004, 10:10 AM
Polanco seems to be the trendy, high OBP type guy that teams are salavating over. He's got a decent glove, and can get on - but for maybe 3mm more than Todd Walker or 4mm more than Ton Womack, 5mm more than Wee Willie, I am inclined to pass.
I agree, but I'm starting to think that we need to be careful of falling into the trap of everyone being overpriced. If indeed the market is shifting upwards again, then what seemed overpriced suddenly is actually fairly priced.

I have no problem on passing on guys, but I'd be extremely disappointed if that ended up in a potential payroll bump ending up being pocketed. In the end, it'll be better to overpay for someone and have that hole filled than to not get anyone and continue to have holes. If passing on Polanco, etc means we can take on a Kendall or RJ, fine. If it means we go sign another pitcher, fine. If it means we go get 2-3 other players who are good, fine.

Blueprint1
11-23-2004, 10:54 AM
Polanco seems to be the trendy, high OBP type guy that teams are salavating over. He's got a decent glove, and can get on - but for maybe 3mm more than Todd Walker or 4mm more than Ton Womack, 5mm more than Wee Willie, I am inclined to pass.
If Harris starts the season at 2nd base this year we are in trouble. The guy backs up on the ball and can't turn the double play. He also can't hit the ball worth a darn. Willie is fast but doesn't know how to steal bases. The fact is this guy sucks. Its time to give up Kenny Baltimore was right about this guy he will never be a major league baseball player.

hold2dibber
11-23-2004, 11:01 AM
Here are Renteria's career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5602). He's good, but not great, offensively, and isn't real consistent from year to year. He is, by all accounts, excellent defensively. If he were to end up on the Sox, I'd expect something like a .290 avg, .350 OBP, 15 HRs and 15 SBs. He's essentially replace Harris in the line-up, with Uribe moving to 2B. Playing full time, I'd expect Harris to hit .260, .325 OBP, 2 HRs and 25 SBs. Is that extra production worth the $8 million more per year it would cost for Renteria? I think the Sox would be better off spending that money elsewhere. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have Renteria. But if the question is Renteria vs. Kendall, or Renteria vs. Pavano or Radke, I'd pass on Renteria.

hold2dibber
11-23-2004, 11:08 AM
If Harris starts the season at 2nd base this year we are in trouble. The guy backs up on the ball and can't turn the double play. He also can't hit the ball worth a darn. Willie is fast but doesn't know how to steal bases. The fact is this guy sucks. Its time to give up Kenny Baltimore was right about this guy he will never be a major league baseball player.
Ward, I think you're being a little hard on the Beaver.

Harris was nothing special last year, but he was far from terrible. He hit .262 with an OBP of .343 and stole 19 bases in limited playing time. And he was jerked in and out of the lineup. He was actually good against righties - hitting .279 with a .366 OBP (but atrocious in 72 ABs against lefties). He seemed to me to be average defensively. I think you can live with Harris at 2B (particularly if the Sox find a utility player who can play 2B and smash left handed pitching). You hit him 9th, don't expect too much out of him and I think he'll earn his keep. They're better of spending their $ on pitching (or catching, since Ben Davis is not a starter).

SoxxoS
11-23-2004, 11:08 AM
Here are Renteria's career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5602). He's good, but not great, offensively, and isn't real consistent from year to year. He is, by all accounts, excellent defensively. If he were to end up on the Sox, I'd expect something like a .290 avg, .350 OBP, 15 HRs and 15 SBs. He's essentially replace Harris in the line-up, with Uribe moving to 2B. Playing full time, I'd expect Harris to hit .260, .325 OBP, 2 HRs and 25 SBs. Is that extra production worth the $8 million more per year it would cost for Renteria?

That isn't the right way to look at it. First off, Renteria would take the place of Jose and Uribe would take the place of Harris. You then need to ask yourself the production of Renteria/Uribe at 2nd vs. Uribe at SS and Harris. There's a big difference.
Not to mention defense at the shortstop position, something we haven't had since the Choice.

SoxxoS
11-23-2004, 11:09 AM
Ward, I think you're being a little hard on the Beaver.

Harris was nothing special last year, but he was far from terrible. He hit .262 with an OBP of .343 and stole 19 bases in limited playing time. And he was jerked in and out of the lineup. He was actually good against righties - hitting .279 with a .366 OBP (but atrocious in 72 ABs against lefties).

Seems to me to be a perfect utility guy...perfect when we spell Uribe or need a pinch runner (IF he ever learns to steal bases).

hold2dibber
11-23-2004, 12:11 PM
You then need to ask yourself the production of Renteria/Uribe at 2nd vs. Uribe at SS and Harris. There's a big difference.
That's exactly what I did. The difference between those two pairs is Renteria vs. Harris, and I compared what I would expect Renteria to contribute offensively vs. what I'd expect Harris to contribute offensively. As I said in my post, Renteria is a better, I just don't think he's $8 million better (especially if spending $8 million (or more) on him means no FA pitchers, which is what the Sox need more than anything).

Not to mention defense at the shortstop position, something we haven't had since the Choice.
I haven't seen enough of Renteria to really compare him against Uribe defensively (although he certainly has a great reputation defensively), but I think Uribe is an outstanding SS defensively. He has range, soft hands and a gun for an arm.

In the end, my point is that Renteria is a good player but not a great player. He had one great year ('03) but has otherwise been "just" good. Assuming, as we must, that the amount of $ the Sox can spend on upgrades for '05 is fairly limited, I think they're better off upgrading elsewhere.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-23-2004, 12:29 PM
Like Renteria but I don't think he fits in the budget, $ would be better spent on D Miller C, P Polanco 2B, SP (Mid or upper level), and or Bullpen Help.

Dye would be a HUGE mistake - another injured / injury prone player - we have enough (Thomas (who may not be ready opening day), Everett (who may not be in shape and usually plays 100 games / year)).

SoxxoS
11-23-2004, 01:07 PM
That's exactly what I did. The difference between those two pairs is Renteria vs. Harris, and I compared what I would expect Renteria to contribute offensively vs. what I'd expect Harris to contribute offensively. As I said in my post, Renteria is a better, I just don't think he's $8 million better (especially if spending $8 million (or more) on him means no FA pitchers, which is what the Sox need more than anything).

I should of said this: You have to look at production by position. For example, Ross Gload's production would be great for a third baseman, but it's not all that great for a 1B.
Renteria would be great production for a shortstop, and Uribe would be excellent production for a second baseman. Uribe would give you OK production at SS and Harris gives you crap at 2B. It's an upgrade of both positions, not just Renteria v. Harris.

SoxxoS
11-23-2004, 01:16 PM
This love affair with Juan Uribe has to be turned down a notch. He started and finished well But looking at May and June (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6698) I thought we were getting away from the inconsistant players. He went 30-160 during that time. That's a big hole in your lineup. It looks like he is going to have to do, but just remember this thread when we are calling for his head in June again.

1917
11-23-2004, 02:06 PM
3 years ago Dye was one of the best OF in baseball, he got injured in the playoffs, then he had a down year when he recovered in 2003, but he showed signs of the old Dye in 2004, I think he would be a great addition

pearso66
11-23-2004, 04:08 PM
I should of said this: You have to look at production by position. For example, Ross Gload's production would be great for a third baseman, but it's not all that great for a 1B.
Renteria would be great production for a shortstop, and Uribe would be excellent production for a second baseman. Uribe would give you OK production at SS and Harris gives you crap at 2B. It's an upgrade of both positions, not just Renteria v. Harris.
For some reason, I don't see your viewpoint. I agree that players at certain positions are expected to put up certain numbers, but you are in all, comparing Renteria vs. harris. You will get the same numbers from Uribe whether he is at ss or 2nd. I havnt looked at the numbers, but if Renteria is only a little better than harris, then where is Uribe? Is 14 homers and .270 average for SS but 15 and .275 great? I'd rather not sign Renteria for 10 mil a yaer. If he could be had for 5-6 then do it, if not, I stay with Willie and Uribe. I thought when Willie was given the opportunity to play, and he knew the job was his, he did fine, it was when he was taken in and out of the lineup everyday when he struggled

CWSGuy406
11-23-2004, 04:51 PM
For some reason, I don't see your viewpoint. I agree that players at certain positions are expected to put up certain numbers, but you are in all, comparing Renteria vs. harris. You will get the same numbers from Uribe whether he is at ss or 2nd. I havnt looked at the numbers, but if Renteria is only a little better than harris, then where is Uribe? Is 14 homers and .270 average for SS but 15 and .275 great? I'd rather not sign Renteria for 10 mil a yaer. If he could be had for 5-6 then do it, if not, I stay with Willie and Uribe. I thought when Willie was given the opportunity to play, and he knew the job was his, he did fine, it was when he was taken in and out of the lineup everyday when he struggled
I agree.

It doesn't matter from which position production in your lineup comes from. It just matters that it comes from somewhere.

And, while I don't think Harris is an everyday player, I do think he is pretty solid to start against RHP's.

I'd target Polanco, because, IMHO, Polanco at 5 million is > than Renteria at 10 million...

TheBull19
11-24-2004, 04:08 PM
I think you folks are overlooking the value of defense at SS. Wouldn't the team be improved greatly with a gold glove caliber guy at SS and Uribe at 2nd? And offensively, this is a guy who's averaged .308 BA, 40 2b, 85 RBI and .360 OBP the last 3 years. A guy who has plenty of postseason experience. A smart player who can do the little things? Isn't this the kind of guy a lot of people on this board have been saying we need?

jabrch
11-24-2004, 04:31 PM
The funny thing is, no matter what SS (Nomar, Edgar, Cabrerra) and what SPs (RJ, Pavano, Clement) and what OFs we get, people will bitch about it.

Lip Man 1
11-24-2004, 08:17 PM
And the problem with that is?

Lip

SEALgep
11-24-2004, 09:29 PM
And the problem with that is?

LipBecause it's petty.

Flight #24
11-24-2004, 10:22 PM
And the problem with that is?

Lip
No problem, but IMO repeating the same point ad nauseum whether or not it's appropriate actually reduces the impact of said point in cases where it's actually valid. "Boy who cried wolf" would be the analogy.

Lip Man 1
11-25-2004, 01:46 AM
Seal:

It's as petty as the **** who consistently think 83 wins and finishing in 2nd place are 'above average' as long as the owners are happy and don't lose money.

After all the games are played to finish in 2nd right?

Lip