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View Full Version : This Roster within Budget?


kruzer31
11-20-2004, 03:20 PM
Lets see. Im thinking this roster could come into a budget somewhere between 80-85million even though Reinsdorf may think its too high. I wish Jerry would know that putting this team im am constructing that is realistic will excite fans and bring so much more people out to the games.

The two biggest moves would be signing Rentaria and making a trade for Randy Johnson. This means Konerko and Garland woudl be gone or Lee and Garland for the Big Unit. Signing Rentaria moves Uribe to a utility player. So lets say Konerko goes and Garland. We now need a first basemen because to me Gload is not an every day player on a World Series team. There are two first basemen that could be useful to us with a healthy Thomas and Everett, with Lee having a nice year. Those 2 first basmen are John Olerud or Tino Martinez. Trading Garland leaves us with a hole in the 5 slot so we go out and sign Jon Lieber for 2 years. The last move I would make is to sign Todd Walker to play second and make Willie Harris a utility player. So here is our roster.

2b Todd Walker
cf Aaron Rowand
SS Edgar Rentaria
LF Carlos Lee
DH Frank Thomas
1b Tino Martinez
RF Carl Everett
3b Joe Crede
c Ben Davis

Our Rotation would be the best in the Central , maybe in the AL with our ace Randy Johnson, followed by righty Freddy Garcia, coming back with an all star lefty Mark Buerhle, then Contreras at 4 and Lieber a workhorse at the 5th spot.
So this brings us to the bullpen. Its time to get rid of Adkins and Cotts. Shinjo is fine as a closer in my opinion. Marte and Politte will stay too. Two good options out there for lefties in the pen are R.Cormier and W. Alvarez. I choose Alvarez cuz he can give us a few innings of relief when needed and spot start if needed as well. The remaining bullpen spots can be filled with in house players and if that consists of Cotts and Adkins so be it.
The bench will be solid with Harris, Uribe, Gload and Timo and possibly a signing of Brian Jordan if he comes cheap.
Having Randy Johnson would be great but if we can not land him we are going to need another starter. Maybe Pavano or Russ Ortiz, but this negates Lieber and Garland would be our 5th starter and Konerko would be at first instead of Tino Martinez.
In all actuality though, Randy will not be here and neither will Rentaria, Walker or Tino. But seriously Mr. Reinsdorf, we cant have the team we have now and expect to win. The Indians are improving , the Tigers are making moves and the Twins are the Twins. You are in your 70s Jerry, dont you want to win a title?

Please give us hope, a sox fan for life

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 03:42 PM
The two biggest moves would be signing Rentaria and making a trade for Randy Johnson. This means Konerko and Garland woudl be gone or Lee and Garland for the Big Unit. Signing Rentaria moves Uribe to a utility player.
But... Uribe is already as good as Renteria, so how exactly does this improve the team? Just because Edgar played on two championship teams doesn't mean he owns the secret recipe to some special sauce or something. I just fail to understand this idea that a superior defensive shortstop who crashes home runs needs to be replaced or moved to a utility role. However, I admit, the White Sox seem to be thinking more along your lines that mine.

Todd Walker would be the worst defensive second baseman the White Sox have had since Jim Morrison. The Red Sox let him go because they determined they were allowing more ground ball singles to right than any other team in baseball and it was killing them... given that the Sox have to use sinkerball pitchers because of their idiotic decision to bring the fences in and fill in the gap with concrete, they need all the range they can get at SS and 2B to gobble up grounders. That isn't Renteria and Walker.

kruzer31
11-20-2004, 03:50 PM
I agree moving Uribe to the bench may be a bad idea. He may be ready to break out but please do not compare him to Rentaria. Rentaria is a .330 hitter, 30 homer potential in the AL and a 100 RBI man in the 3 hole. Him getting on base creates run potential for Thomas and Lee behind him.
Walkers defense is bad i agree. But we need guys to get on base. Valentin, Crede, Harris are bad when it comes to OBS. Maybe Grudzilanek instead of Todd?

kruzer31
11-20-2004, 03:52 PM
Oh , and one more thing, I think you mean Rentaria's D is superior to Uribe I hope.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 03:59 PM
I agree moving Uribe to the bench may be a bad idea. He may be ready to break out but please do not compare him to Rentaria. Rentaria is a .330 hitter, 30 homer potential in the AL and a 100 RBI man in the 3 hole. Him getting on base creates run potential for Thomas and Lee behind him.
Walkers defense is bad i agree. But we need guys to get on base. Valentin, Crede, Harris are bad when it comes to OBS. Maybe Grudzilanek instead of Todd?
WHAT? The NL is EASIER to hit home runs in. Renteria hit .330 once; his lifetime average is .289 and his lifetime high is 16 home runs. He'll be 30 years old and will never, ever, earn back the contract he's about to get. Playing in USCF he hits 10-15 homers, .290, walks 40-45 times, and gets worse every year. Juan Uribe out-hit him in 2004. Now, if Renteria plays like he did in 2003, yeah, I agree, but if he had done that in 2004 he'd be in line for sixty million dollars.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he stinks. I'm saying Renteria is hardly undervalued, isn't that much better than Uribe would be, and doesn't really improve the team enough to be worth what he'll cost.

I'm not a fan of OPS myself. Most of the time, 50 points of OBP is quite a bit more significant than 50 points of SLG.

kruzer31
11-20-2004, 04:05 PM
You make good points. How would you make this team into a World Series team though. Not just a team that has a chance to make the playoffs

nitetrain8601
11-20-2004, 04:05 PM
WHAT? The NL is EASIER to hit home runs in. Renteria hit .330 once; his lifetime average is .289 and his lifetime high is 16 home runs. He'll be 30 years old and will never, ever, earn back the contract he's about to get. Playing in USCF he hits 10-15 homers, .290, walks 40-45 times, and gets worse every year. Juan Uribe out-hit him in 2004. Now, if Renteria plays like he did in 2003, yeah, I agree, but if he had done that in 2004 he'd be in line for sixty million dollars.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he stinks. I'm saying Renteria is hardly undervalued, isn't that much better than Uribe would be, and doesn't really improve the team enough to be worth what he'll cost.

I'm not a fan of OPS myself. Most of the time, 50 points of OBP is quite a bit more significant than 50 points of SLG.
Renteria is a consistant .289 hitter while Uribe's a consistant .260 hitter. Renteria has GG defense. You basically are comparing Renteria's career with the best year of Uribe. If you look at the trends of the past 3 years, Edgar is far, far, far better than Uribe. Look at the Renteria poll thread and my post. You don't think Renteria would do as much damage, if not more at the Cell? You have to be kidding.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 04:05 PM
Oh , and one more thing, I think you mean Rentaria's D is superior to Uribe I hope.
No, I don't. Renteria is only an average defensive shortstop. He is elite because of his bat. Uribe is considerably better than average defensively, and up until this past season, was regarded essentially as good-field no-hit. The difference in range is striking.

I think if Uribe starts all season he could win the Gold Glove. He's absolutely better defensively than Jeter.

nitetrain8601
11-20-2004, 04:07 PM
No, I don't. Renteria is only an average defensive shortstop. He is elite because of his bat. Uribe is considerably better than average defensively, and up until this past season, was regarded essentially as good-field no-hit. The difference in range is striking.

I think if Uribe starts all season he could win the Gold Glove. He's absolutely better defensively than Jeter.
Better than Jeter, probably, not better than Renteria though. Not even close. Uribe has a strong arm, that's about it. Yeah, why don't you look at each player's fielding pct. It's not even close man.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 04:14 PM
Renteria is a consistant .289 hitter while Uribe's a consistant .260 hitter. Renteria has GG defense.
If Renteria is so good, where are the assists? He doesn't throw out an above-average number of runners. Ozzie Smith piled up assists at a record pace. Ozzie Guillen did, too. If a shortstop is really good, it shows up clearly in the A column. Every assist is a runner thrown out. I suggest you look at their zone ratings if you don't believe their assist totals. Uribe gets to more balls, throws out more runners, and lets fewer balls through. Period. It doesn't matter how smooth you LOOK fielding, what matters is getting people out. Uribe, for two teams, has consistently done that dozens of times more a season than Renteria does. Every assist Renteria doesn't have is a baserunner.

White Sox fans KILL me. They never see what they have, they just complain about what they don't have. If you watch the Sox from a distance, and watch other major league teams, you see that.

Next thing will be a thread about how Paul Konerko cost us the division with his defense. Sheesh.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 04:18 PM
Better than Jeter, probably, not better than Renteria though. Not even close. Uribe has a strong arm, that's about it. Yeah, why don't you look at each player's fielding pct. It's not even close man.
WHAT?

.983, .966, .972, .984 at SS for Uribe. About 5.2 PO+A/9innings.

.961, .970, .975, .983 at SS for Renteria. About 4.3 PO+A/9 innings.

Yes, it IS close. And that extra baserunner thrown out every game is a hit taken away.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 04:22 PM
Renteria is a consistant .289 hitter while Uribe's a consistant .260 hitter.
Uribe's 25 and his career peak is probably ahead of him.

Renteria is pushing 30 and his career peak is probably behind him.

I suggest you compare their performance at similar ages and you'll see something very interesting.

Uribe has considerably more power than Renteria. I believe he, uh, hit .283 and slugged .506.

broker3d
11-20-2004, 04:56 PM
Uribe will not be on the bench. he will either start at short or 2nd. If we sign Cabrera or Renteria than he goes to 2nd. otherwise we should be happy to have him as our starting shortstop. But if Renteria or Cabrera are interested in coming here we must try to do that and make Uribe our 2nd base. either way he is going to start for the 2005 white sox.

johnny_mostil
11-20-2004, 05:21 PM
Uribe will not be on the bench. he will either start at short or 2nd. If we sign Cabrera or Renteria than he goes to 2nd. otherwise we should be happy to have him as our starting shortstop. But if Renteria or Cabrera are interested in coming here we must try to do that and make Uribe our 2nd base. either way he is going to start for the 2005 white sox.
My nightmare is he starts... at third base. Sure he hits a little better than Crede, but not enough, and it wastes his defensive ability. The White Sox aren't the Yankees. They can't afford to play a shortstop at third.

WiFi is dangerous. It makes you neglect your family...

broker3d
11-20-2004, 05:33 PM
we need to give Crede another year at 3rd. we need his D. let's hope he comes around.