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View Full Version : Corey Koskie for 3B--fills the need for an IF vet


beck72
11-19-2004, 09:04 AM
The first move the Sox should do is sign FA 3B Corey Koskie [though his signing and a trade involving Joe Crede would be completed soon after]. Signing Koskie would then put the Sox in a better position to shore up their other holes, either by trade of free agency. A MN paper reports that the Twins have offered Koskie a 2 yr, $7 mill contract. And that despite some interest from a few teams, no other offers are on the table. The Sox could come in with a 3 yr offer that would be hard to beat, say $15 million or slightly below. Thatís a decent contract for a guy like Koskie. He would give the Sox a LH bat that hits for a .280 avg, a good OBP, and solid defense. And provide a veteran for the IF to go along with Uribe and Harris [and possibly Gload if PK is traded].

No doubt Crede has upside. Yet, IMO, Harris and Uribe have even more so. Yet all three are question marks going into 2005. And IMO, having an entire infield of unproven players is too big a gamble, esp. seeing how hard it would be to add players mid-season. If anyone thinks a potential IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Gload [if PK is traded] sounds like one destined for the playoffs, Iíve got a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy. Koskieís solid production could be counted on in a day in day out basis. And allows the young IF to have some stability.

With Koskie signed, and Crede, Garland and PK as trading chips, the sox would have more flexibility via the trade route [which KW seems to prefer anyway] to fill their holes, starting w/ leadoff man Jason Kendall. A deal for Randy Johnson probably isnít going to happen. But the Sox could put themselves in a better position for one of the ďbig 3Ē or another young strating pitcher. Also, a guy like Crede would be a good risk for a team like Milw. or TB to take on. Getting a setup guy like Danys Baez, who makes a lot of money for TB, could happen. The key is getting flexibility. Get a few spots taken care of and fill in the rest. Going into 2005 with Uribe, Harris and potentially Gload as starters would already be a big risk. Hoping Crede breaks out just adds to risk. The best options via free agency seem to be 3B at this point, and Koskie sounds like the best value and best fit.

OG4LIFE
11-19-2004, 09:51 AM
nope, this is stupid. koskie is 31, and declining. no signs of ever doing anything better than he has done before. crede still has potential. i dont see the point in bringing in a new guy (and paying him 4 mil/yr) just because he hits 20 points better on BA (he's be hitting 7, 8 anyway), and whose defense might be a downgrade. meanwhile, crede sits on the bench so we can never really find out if he had anything. money could be better used elsewhere (pitching). also, i didnt know we had a need for a veteran IF... give me a good all around ballplayer (good def, solid obp, decent power/speed), i dont care if he's a vet or not. sorry dude,


:threadsucks

infohawk
11-19-2004, 09:54 AM
I completely agree. Koskie would do three things for the club. First, he would provide another left-handed bat for the line-up. Second, he would provide another player who has an above average .OBP. Just the fact that Koskie's .OBP is significantly higher than Crede's, and that Valentin's low .OBP will no longer be in the line-up, would be a serious upgrade for the team's offense. Third, being able to package Crede and his low salary in a deal might also help to pry one or more important players from another team.

ma-gaga
11-19-2004, 10:25 AM
nope, this is stupid. koskie is 31, and declining.
...
give me a good all around ballplayer (good def, solid obp, decent power/speed)
um... C.Koskie is by your definition a good all around ballplayer:
Excellent defense.
Solid OBP.
Good power.
Average speed.

He's no Eric Chavez, but he's not crap either. He's a little injury prone and will likely miss 30 games this year, that is the 'downside' here. But a couple of his injuries were flukes. "Bruised sternum", after taking a baseball off his chest while running to first base... c'mon.

I would be worried about signing him to a 3 year deal. But it's probably worth the risk. Ideally, it would be a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 10:37 AM
um... C.Koskie is by your definition a good all around ballplayer:
Excellent defense.
Solid OBP.
Good power.
Average speed.

He's no Eric Chavez, but he's not crap either. He's a little injury prone and will likely miss 30 games this year, that is the 'downside' here. But a couple of his injuries were flukes. "Bruised sternum", after taking a baseball off his chest while running to first base... c'mon.

I would be worried about signing him to a 3 year deal. But it's probably worth the risk. Ideally, it would be a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option.Koskie's BA was .011 higher than Crede's. If you're counting, that works out to a whole 6 more hits over the course of the season. That ought to put us over the top.

JRIG
11-19-2004, 10:46 AM
Koskie's BA was .011 higher than Crede's. If you're counting, that works out to a whole 6 more hits over the course of the season. That ought to put us over the top.
Of course...Koskie in 2003 had a 85-point advantage in OBP and a 31-point advantage in BA...plus a higher SLG. And in 2004 had a 43-point advantage in OBP and a 77-point advantage in SLG. Koskie's career line is .280/.373/.463. Crede isn't close to that.

Koskie would be a major upgrade at 3B. A good left-handed bat. A guy who gets on base. And we wouldn't have to watch Crede anymore. If the Twins only offered 2 years and $7 million, then he is very gettable, AND a better value than most of the midle infield guys still out there.

beck72
11-19-2004, 10:49 AM
[QUOTE=OG4LIFE]nope, this is stupid. koskie is 31, and declining. no signs of ever doing anything better than he has done before. crede still has potential. i dont see the point in bringing in a new guy (and paying him 4 mil/yr) just because he hits 20 points better on BA (he's be hitting 7, 8 anyway), and whose defense might be a downgrade. meanwhile, crede sits on the bench so we can never really find out if he had anything. money could be better used elsewhere (pitching). also, i didnt know we had a need for a veteran IF... give me a good all around ballplayer (good def, solid obp, decent power/speed), i dont care if he's a vet or not. sorry dude,


Then an IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris and probably Gload works for you?! Sorry dude, but this won't help the sox make the playoffs, even if they got Randy Johnson, a closer, a RFer, and Jason Kendall.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 10:52 AM
Of course...Koskie in 2003 had a 85-point advantage in OBP and a 31-point advantage in BA...plus a higher SLG. And in 2004 had a 43-point advantage in OBP and a 77-point advantage in SLG. Koskie's career line is .280/.373/.463. Crede isn't close to that.

Koskie would be a major upgrade at 3B. A good left-handed bat. A guy who gets on base. And we wouldn't have to watch Crede anymore. If the Twins only offered 2 years and $7 million, then he is very gettable, AND a better value than most of the midle infield guys still out there.Please explain why it's so urgent to replace Crede (.239) when we still have Ben Davis (.209) sharing catching duties and NOBODY in RF. Is it just me, or do these priorities seem bass ackwards?

beck72
11-19-2004, 10:54 AM
Koskie's BA was .011 higher than Crede's. If you're counting, that works out to a whole 6 more hits over the course of the season. That ought to put us over the top.
I'll take Koskie's career .280/.373/.463 numbers anyday [and his numbers at the cell of .274/.380 /.536]. The sox need consistency [both w/ the bat and the glove], exp w/ a lot of young, unproven guys in the lineup. Koskie could give that and more, for Vizquel type money.

JRIG
11-19-2004, 11:03 AM
Please explain why it's so urgent to replace Crede (.239) when we still have Ben Davis (.209) sharing catching duties and NOBODY in RF. Is it just me, or do these priorities seem bass ackwards?
Because a replacement at catcher or RF is not as evident or affordable or even as a good as Corey Koskie. Koskie is a big improvement over Crede at 3B. It would be difficult to find a similar replacement at catcher, other than Jason Kendall, and his salary probably won't make that happen. If Everett comes in healthy he'll play RF. Not the best...no... but is Jermaine Dye a huge improvement if he wants 6-7 million? Nope.

beck72
11-19-2004, 11:03 AM
Please explain why it's so urgent to replace Crede (.239) when we still have Ben Davis (.209) sharing catching duties and NOBODY in RF. Is it just me, or do these priorities seem bass ackwards?
The sox are most likely to fill the remaining holes via trade. Yet only Garland and Pk are "on the block". These two guys alone won't help the sox fill those holes. Crede has a lot of value for lower market teams and would give the Sox more trading options. Getting Koskie for 3b, with Uribe at Ss and Harris at 2B, would be like the Vizquel signing--getting a vet who can bring consistency and fill needed holes the sox have in their lineup[obp, defense, a proven winner]

I've always thought the sox getting a leadoff guy like Jason Kendall would be the key to the sox season. Signing Koskie would help get Kendall. Say they trade Jon for Kendall and cash, as has been rumored. PK alone prob. won't get the Sox a top SP. Yet Crede and PK could. I certainly don't want the sox trading guys like Anderson, sweeney, honel and B-mac. If the Sox could trade Crede instead to fix some holes for 2005 and beyond, so much the better.

Flight #24
11-19-2004, 11:06 AM
Please explain why it's so urgent to replace Crede (.239) when we still have Ben Davis (.209) sharing catching duties and NOBODY in RF. Is it just me, or do these priorities seem bass ackwards?
It's not urgent, but it's a good opportunity. You dont' have to give up any talent to get him, he's not that expensive, and he provides you sort of the same type of flexibility that you'd have gotten with Vizquel in that if/when you trade Konerko, you can plug in the best 2 of Koskie/Crede/Gload at 1B & 3B.

And taking his 1 bad year, during which he suffered some freak injuries against Crede's year, which wasn't that different from his career #s is IMO not a good comparison. I'll bet that Koskie's 2005 #s are a lot clsoer to his career ones than to his 2004 ones. He's not exactly pushing 40 and starting an end-of-career decline.

Look at it this way - by all accounts, you'll have to give up at least Konerko & Garland to get RJ. Therefore unless you want to send over top prospects, you're not getting Kendall. Koskie is a cheap OBP alternative. It may not fill the biggest hole, but it does fill a fairly sizable hole.

Flight #24
11-19-2004, 11:11 AM
The sox are most likely to fill the remaining holes via trade. Yet only Garland and Pk are "on the block". These two guys alone won't help the sox fill those holes. Crede has a lot of value for lower market teams and would give the Sox more trading options. Getting Koskie for 3b, with Uribe at Ss and Harris at 2B, would be like the Vizquel signing--getting a vet who can bring consistency and fill needed holes the sox have in their lineup[obp, defense, a proven winner]

I've always thought the sox getting a leadoff guy like Jason Kendall would be the key to the sox season. Signing Koskie would help get Kendall. Say they trade Jon for Kendall and cash, as has been rumored. PK alone prob. won't get the Sox a top SP. Yet Crede and PK could. I certainly don't want the sox trading guys like Anderson, sweeney, honel and B-mac. If the Sox could trade Crede instead to fix some holes for 2005 and beyond, so much the better.
That's an interesting point. If you sign Koskie for $5mil/yr, trade PK+Crede for RJ, and trade Garland for Kendall+cash (so he's at $6mil/yr), then you dramatically improved both the O and pitching and did so at a net increase in 2005 $$$ of $5(Koskie) + $2 (RJ's 10 - Koney's 8) + $2 (Kendall's 6 - Garland's 4) = 9mil.

A batting order of Kendall-Koskie-Frank-Lee-Everett-Rowand-Uribe-Gload-Harris is pretty balanced and solid, and assuming that Harris improves slightly, is free of black holes. You still need bullpen help, but strong starting pitching and that lineup can get you to the playoffs.

beck72
11-19-2004, 11:15 AM
It's not urgent, but it's a good opportunity. You dont' have to give up any talent to get him, he's not that expensive, and he provides you sort of the same type of flexibility that you'd have gotten with Vizquel in that if/when you trade Konerko, you can plug in the best 2 of Koskie/Crede/Gload at 1B & 3B.

And taking his 1 bad year, during which he suffered some freak injuries against Crede's year, which wasn't that different from his career #s is IMO not a good comparison. I'll bet that Koskie's 2005 #s are a lot clsoer to his career ones than to his 2004 ones. He's not exactly pushing 40 and starting an end-of-career decline.

Look at it this way - by all accounts, you'll have to give up at least Konerko & Garland to get RJ. Therefore unless you want to send over top prospects, you're not getting Kendall. Koskie is a cheap OBP alternative. It may not fill the biggest hole, but it does fill a fairly sizable hole.
Exactly my thinking. Koskie would be a luxury, sure. But he fits in with what the Sox seem intent on building. It's also a deal that makes other deals possible. Koskie was quoted in the pioneer press saying no other teams had offered him a contract besides the Twins [though a few teams were interested, Sea. and Tor among them]. Another article quoted the twins offer as a 2 yr, $7 mill deal. Koskie said it was "encouraging" but that he had in his head a "fair" deal. Koskie likely won't be resigned at a 3 yr, $15 mill deal by the Twins. Another team maybe. But if the Sox come in and top their offer before another team can, anything can happen. [Seeing Percival sign with Det. shows that]

beck72
11-19-2004, 11:18 AM
That's an interesting point. If you sign Koskie for $5mil/yr, trade PK+Crede for RJ, and trade Garland for Kendall+cash (so he's at $6mil/yr), then you dramatically improved both the O and pitching and did so at a net increase in 2005 $$$ of $5(Koskie) + $2 (RJ's 10 - Koney's 8) + $2 (Kendall's 6 - Garland's 4) = 9mil.

A batting order of Kendall-Koskie-Frank-Lee-Everett-Rowand-Uribe-Gload-Harris is pretty balanced and solid, and assuming that Harris improves slightly, is free of black holes. You still need bullpen help, but strong starting pitching and that lineup can get you to the playoffs.
I don't see the sox trading for RJ. [unless they get Vazquez and cash from NY in a 3 way]. Yet it gives the Sox flexibility. If the sox improved their offense w/ Koskie and Kendall, they could even get by with an Odalis Perez or Russ Ortiz in the rotation [not ideal but doable], and still get some bullpen help.

Palehose13
11-19-2004, 11:31 AM
That's an interesting point. If you sign Koskie for $5mil/yr, trade PK+Crede for RJ, and trade Garland for Kendall+cash (so he's at $6mil/yr), then you dramatically improved both the O and pitching and did so at a net increase in 2005 $$$ of $5(Koskie) + $2 (RJ's 10 - Koney's 8) + $2 (Kendall's 6 - Garland's 4) = 9mil.

A batting order of Kendall-Koskie-Frank-Lee-Everett-Rowand-Uribe-Gload-Harris is pretty balanced and solid, and assuming that Harris improves slightly, is free of black holes. You still need bullpen help, but strong starting pitching and that lineup can get you to the playoffs.
This is along the lines of what I would like to see happen, but it doesn't have to be Koskie because of the versatility of Uribe...but I wouldn't be upset if the signed him.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 11:40 AM
That's an interesting point. If you sign Koskie for $5mil/yr, trade PK+Crede for RJ, and trade Garland for Kendall+cash (so he's at $6mil/yr), then you dramatically improved both the O and pitching and did so at a net increase in 2005 $$$ of $5(Koskie) + $2 (RJ's 10 - Koney's 8) + $2 (Kendall's 6 - Garland's 4) = 9mil.

A batting order of Kendall-Koskie-Frank-Lee-Everett-Rowand-Uribe-Gload-Harris is pretty balanced and solid, and assuming that Harris improves slightly, is free of black holes. You still need bullpen help, but strong starting pitching and that lineup can get you to the playoffs.PK+Crede for RJ and Garland for Kendall+cash? Flight, I know you know better than that. Not a chance those trades are going to fly.

Thomas is not going to be ready to play until May at the earliest and more likely June. That means they need to find someone to play RF while Dino DH's. And I would rate replacing Davis a lot higher in priority than Crede. So you've got at least two more pressing needs that need to be met. And we haven't even talked about the bullpen. When you have limited resources, you need to use them on the highest priority needs.

Randar68
11-19-2004, 11:52 AM
Thomas is not going to be ready to play until May at the earliest and more likely June.
Sorry, but says whom?

SoxxoS
11-19-2004, 11:59 AM
PK+Crede for RJ and Garland for Kendall+cash? Flight, I know you know better than that. Not a chance those trades are going to fly.

Thomas is not going to be ready to play until May at the earliest and more likely June. That means they need to find someone to play RF while Dino DH's. And I would rate replacing Davis a lot higher in priority than Crede. So you've got at least two more pressing needs that need to be met. And we haven't even talked about the bullpen. When you have limited resources, you need to use them on the highest priority needs.

Offense from the catcher position in the A.L. is just a bonus. A good DH/good defensive catcher is more important.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 12:01 PM
Sorry, but says whom?According to the Sox official release, he's unlikely to be ready for the start of spring training. At his age, you would have to plan on a slow recovery, especially considering the amount of stress he puts on that ankle when he swings. He may be on the roster sooner, but that doesn't mean he'll be 100%. If it's sooner, great, but the prudent thing to do would be to plan for him to not be fully ready before May or June.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 12:03 PM
Offense from the catcher position in the A.L. is just a bonus. A good DH/good defensive catcher is more important.It's a bonus if he hits better than about .240. But Davis doesn't bring nearly enough defense to justify a .209 BA.

beck72
11-19-2004, 12:09 PM
PK+Crede for RJ and Garland for Kendall+cash? Flight, I know you know better than that. Not a chance those trades are going to fly.

Thomas is not going to be ready to play until May at the earliest and more likely June. That means they need to find someone to play RF while Dino DH's. And I would rate replacing Davis a lot higher in priority than Crede. So you've got at least two more pressing needs that need to be met. And we haven't even talked about the bullpen. When you have limited resources, you need to use them on the highest priority needs.I agree an RJ trade to the Sox won't likely happen. But getting the lineup fixed and pitching will take more than just trading Garland and PK. Would Pitt. take a Crede + some pitching [munoz, or Diaz types, who aren't sure of spots on the sox next yr] for Kendall and cash? It's possible. The key is having flexibility in trades [I don't trust the FA market to fix the sox needs at C, or leadoff]. Few teams can afford PK. That means Garland would be the only decent guy to trade. Crede on the block adds to that mix.

Garland won't likely be traded before the sox pick up another quality SP anyway. Which means the sox couldn't get Kendall until other trades happen. A long time to wait no doubt, while other teams fix holes, sign players, and trading partners are lessened. I just think waiting too long on other teams to make moves will give Sox fans a similar lineup as what we saw in 2004. The only difference is the sox will be counting on more young players to have breakout yrs [which is an excuse waiting to happen]. If the sox could get solid vet that improves their team for not that much money, they should do it.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2004, 12:12 PM
FWIW The Twins have made Koskie a two year offer. He's thinking about it according to the sports editor of the Idaho State Journal. He's from Minnesota is a Twins fan and just got back from there where he spent a week on vacation.


Lip

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 12:18 PM
I agree an RJ trade to the Sox won't likely happen. But getting the lineup fixed and pitching will take more than just trading Garland and PK. Would Pitt. take a Crede + some pitching [munoz, or Diaz types, who aren't sure of spots on the sox next yr] for Kendall and cash? It's possible. The key is having flexibility in trades [I don't trust the FA market to fix the sox needs at C, or leadoff]. Few teams can afford PK. That means Garland would be the only decent guy to trade. Crede on the block adds to that mix.

Garland won't likely be traded before the sox pick up another quality SP anyway. Which means the sox couldn't get Kendall until other trades happen. A long time to wait no doubt, while other teams fix holes, sign players, and trading partners are lessened. I just think waiting too long on other teams to make moves will give Sox fans a similar lineup as what we saw in 2004. The only difference is the sox will be counting on more young players to have breakout yrs [which is an excuse waiting to happen]. If the sox could get solid vet that improves their team for not that much money, they should do it.I wouldn't count out getting RJ. Judging by what's been said, the Sox offer is the best yet reported. But you never count out Steinbrenner. He'll move heaven and earth to try to get him. But remember, he wanted Garcia, too, and the Sox got him by putting together an attractive package. It will probably cost PK+JG and maybe a prospect.

Garland is probably the best bargaining chip the Sox have. Without him, it might be tough to get Kendall. I can't think of a package the Sox could offer that would get it done, but you never know. Juan Pierre would, in many ways be more attractive because he's younger and fills the void in the OF without having to put Dino out there. I don't know what it would take to pry him loose from the Marlins.

Let's not be too impatient. Not much is going to happen in the FA market until after Dec 7, and that tends to hold up the whole process. The non-tender deadline is Dec 20. Things will really pick up after that.

beck72
11-19-2004, 12:45 PM
Garland is probably the best bargaining chip the Sox have. Without him, it might be tough to get Kendall. I can't think of a package the Sox could offer that would get it done, but you never know. Juan Pierre would, in many ways be more attractive because he's younger and fills the void in the OF without having to put Dino out there. I don't know what it would take to pry him loose from the Marlins.

Let's not be too impatient. Not much is going to happen in the FA market until after Dec 7, and that tends to hold up the whole process. The non-tender deadline is Dec 20. Things will really pick up after that.Crede would also be a good bargaining chip. Many more teams would want a young, cheap, power hitting, 3b man who plays solid defense than a guy like PK making $8.75 mill [I'm not saying the two are equal in talent, but more teams would willing to deal for Crede on his potential].

Waiting is ok. But the sox shouldn't pass up a good deal just to wait for the "perfect" deal. And a Koskie signign wouldn't a potential deal be it for Kendall or RJ. In fact, IMO, it would enhance their chances of getting something big done in the future by getting more teams involved as possible trade partners.

OG4LIFE
11-19-2004, 12:59 PM
Then an IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris and probably Gload works for you?! Sorry dude, but this won't help the sox make the playoffs, even if they got Randy Johnson, a closer, a RFer, and Jason Kendall.
an IF of Koskie, Uribe, Harris and Gload doesnt really look that much better. not 3yr/15 mil better, as was originally suggested. nope, that would not make any significant difference.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 01:04 PM
Crede would also be a good bargaining chip. Many more teams would want a young, cheap, power hitting, 3b man who plays solid defense than a guy like PK making $8.75 mill [I'm not saying the two are equal in talent, but more teams would willing to deal for Crede on his potential].

Waiting is ok. But the sox shouldn't pass up a good deal just to wait for the "perfect" deal. And a Koskie signign wouldn't a potential deal be it for Kendall or RJ. In fact, IMO, it would enhance their chances of getting something big done in the future by getting more teams involved as possible trade partners.I think Crede is going to surprise a lot of people next year. That said, if he's the chip that gets Jason Kendall or Juan Pierre, it's a no-brainer. I'm just not so sure his trade value is as high as you think it is. We'd be selling low, which is not a good idea.

beck72
11-19-2004, 01:25 PM
an IF of Koskie, Uribe, Harris and Gload doesnt really look that much better. not 3yr/15 mil better, as was originally suggested. nope, that would not make any significant difference.
You're probably right, a solid veteran 3B man with career numbers of .280 /.373/.463, a great glove, and lots of playoff experience has no business playing for the sox. I guess you have lots of suggestions that would be a far better upgrade of Crede-Uribe-Harris-Gload, at only $5 mill a yr then?

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 01:31 PM
You're probably right, a solid veteran 3B man with career numbers of .280 /.373/.463, a great glove, and lots of playoff experience has no business playing for the sox. I guess you have lots of suggestions that would be a far better upgrade of Crede-Uribe-Harris-Gload, at only $5 mill a yr then?They could get Damian Miller for less and he would represent a bigger upgrade. And they could get a decent bullpen arm with the difference.

beck72
11-19-2004, 01:35 PM
I think Crede is going to surprise a lot of people next year. That said, if he's the chip that gets Jason Kendall or Juan Pierre, it's a no-brainer. I'm just not so sure his trade value is as high as you think it is. We'd be selling low, which is not a good idea.
I like Crede. I too think he'll do ok next yr. But the Sox have too many question marks as it is, with Harris, Uribe, Rowand, Gload all young and unproven [both Aaron and Juan had breakthrough seasons, yet it was their 1st big yrs]. I'm sure many teams would love to give Crede a shot, even if his value is low after last yr. In order for small market clubs [the type who'd want Crede] to surprise people and contend, they'll need a lot of guys to have career yrs.

These teams can sell off a big contract where they have depth. I esp see Crede being dealt for bullpen help, where a team can give a rookie or 1 yr player the job a veteran had.

beck72
11-19-2004, 01:41 PM
They could get Damian Miller for less and he would represent a bigger upgrade. And they could get a decent bullpen arm with the difference.
I was talking about for the IF. The Sox clearly weren't satisfied with the current guys who project to be starters [with a PK trade taken into account]. Of the possibilities out there, few could come in at a decent price and improve the sox more than Koskie could.

JRIG
11-19-2004, 01:42 PM
They could get Damian Miller for less and he would represent a bigger upgrade. And they could get a decent bullpen arm with the difference.
Damien Miller has already stated he wants a 3-year contract, which is absurd. I'll take the 70 points in OBP difference and 40 points in SLG between Koskie and Crede rather than tie ourselves to a 35-year old catcher for the next 3 seasons.

Davis/Burke to Miller is going from bad to just below adequate. Going from Crede to Koskie is moving from below average to very good. It's a much bigger chasm.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 01:54 PM
Damien Miller has already stated he wants a 3-year contract, which is absurd. I'll take the 70 points in OBP difference and 40 points in SLG between Koskie and Crede rather than tie ourselves to a 35-year old catcher for the next 3 seasons.

Davis/Burke to Miller is going from bad to just below adequate. Going from Crede to Koskie is moving from below average to very good. It's a much bigger chasm.Miller is just below adequate? GMAB. His career BA is only .016 lower than Koskie. And when you factor in the defense, especially with the Sox putting together a pitching staff featuring low-ball pitchers, I would take Miller over Koskie in a heartbeat. No one is going to offer Miller a 3-yr contract.

In any case, my first choice would be Kendall anyway. With Pittsburgh paying part of the money, you could get him for not that much more than Koskie, and you'd get A LOT more offensive production. I only brought up Miller from the standpoint of a low-cost upgrade. If you want to stay cheap, Miller is a better bargain than Koskie, IMO. If you're willing to spend a little more, Kendall is a better option than Koskie. I don't see Koskie being the answer to either question.

JRIG
11-19-2004, 02:10 PM
Miller is just below adequate? GMAB. His career BA is only .016 lower than Koskie. And when you factor in the defense, especially with the Sox putting together a pitching staff featuring low-ball pitchers, I would take Miller over Koskie in a heartbeat. No one is going to offer Miller a 3-yr contract.

If you want to look just at batting average (one of the more overrated stats in baseball) to judge players, that's up to you. But then you ignore the roughly 50-point difference in both career OBP and SLG between Koskie and Miller. Not to mention Miller is older, and as a catcher, probably more likely to decline.

beck72
11-19-2004, 02:14 PM
If you look at the overall possible changes to the Sox lineup, with say a Koskie signing, a trade for Kendall, and a PK trade, the salaries would be near a wash. Yet the offense would be in much better shape--obp, more balance, avg.

2004- 1B PK [$8.75 mill]; C-Davis [$750,000 in '04]; 3B-Crede[$340,000]
2005- 1B-gload[$300k]; C-Kendall [$6 mill, w/ Pitt's $]; 3B-Koskie [$5 mill]

Add in the subtraction of Jose and Maggs, replaced by Uribe and Everett, the sox overall save money on their everyday lineup, yet IMO have a far more diversified crew.

OG4LIFE
11-19-2004, 02:24 PM
You're probably right, a solid veteran 3B man with career numbers of .280 /.373/.463, a great glove, and lots of playoff experience has no business playing for the sox. I guess you have lots of suggestions that would be a far better upgrade of Crede-Uribe-Harris-Gload, at only $5 mill a yr then?
decent career numbers, but last year he was in the tank. tons of playoff experience? i think the twins have played about 4 extra games per year than the sox. big deal. and, i would say crede has a better glove than koskie.

i think throwing 5 mil at a pitcher to fill our #5 spot in the rotation would make a much bigger difference than the extra 15/20 hits koskie would give us. our #5 spot was 1-11 last year, killed our bullpen, and in the cases they got no-decisions, the offense bailed them out. if we got someone that went 10-10 instead, that would probably be anywhere from more 9-13 wins. no way you could make the case that koskie would make a 9-13 game difference.

so YES, there's your far better upgrade for 5 mil a year. any #5 starter that can go 10-10. not too unreasonable.

beck72
11-19-2004, 02:36 PM
decent career numbers, but last year he was in the tank. tons of playoff experience? i think the twins have played about 4 extra games per year than the sox. big deal. and, i would say crede has a better glove than koskie.

i think throwing 5 mil at a pitcher to fill our #5 spot in the rotation would make a much bigger difference than the extra 15/20 hits koskie would give us. our #5 spot was 1-11 last year, killed our bullpen, and in the cases they got no-decisions, the offense bailed them out. if we got someone that went 10-10 instead, that would probably be anywhere from more 9-13 wins. no way you could make the case that koskie would make a 9-13 game difference.

so YES, there's your far better upgrade for 5 mil a year. any #5 starter that can go 10-10. not too unreasonable.
Signing Koskie wouldn't keep the sox from getting a #5 SP, a #1 SP, or fill other holes for that matter. Koskie could be signed for basically Vizquel money. Though Vizquel and Koskie are different types of players, Koskie would improve the Sox. Crede is no sure bet to improve on his .239, sub .300 OBP. Koskie certainly should.

My question was though, do you see the IF staying the way you have it, one that can make the playoffs? I don't. Too many question marks and unproven players

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 02:42 PM
Signing Koskie wouldn't keep the sox from getting a #5 SP, a #1 SP, or fill other holes for that matter. Koskie could be signed for basically Vizquel money. Though Vizquel and Koskie are different types of players, Koskie would improve the Sox. Crede is no sure bet to improve on his .239, sub .300 OBP. Koskie certainly should.

My question was though, do you see the IF staying the way you have it, one that can make the playoffs? I don't. Too many question marks and unproven playersKenny likes veterans. And I think he's pretty uncomfortable looking at an IF made up of young players. I think that was as much the motivation for trying to get Vizquel as any expected production. I will be very surprised if he doesn't come up with a veteran IF somewhere along the way. I just hope his initials aren't JV.

beck72
11-19-2004, 02:55 PM
I will be very surprised if he doesn't come up with a veteran IF somewhere along the way. I just hope his initials aren't JV.
As long as that IFer is a sure upgrade over who they have now. At the other 2 spots-SS and 2B--I don't see any FA's who fit that description. [And JV certainly doesn't]

SouthSide_HitMen
11-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Please explain why it's so urgent to replace Crede (.239) when we still have Ben Davis (.209) sharing catching duties and NOBODY in RF. Is it just me, or do these priorities seem bass ackwards?
Don't forget we are paying $4 mil for that nobody in RF - Carl "Jurassic Park" Everett.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Don't forget we are paying $4 mil for that nobody in RF - Carl "Jurassic Park" Everett.You've seen him play, then.

OG4LIFE
11-19-2004, 10:12 PM
doesnt matter. doesnt look like koskie will be coming here anyway (thank god):

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpa2lpNnFzBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=knight-koskieexpectingmsoffer&prov=knight&type=lgns)

A. Cavatica
11-19-2004, 11:08 PM
I would like to see us sign Koskie. He's better than Crede, lefthanded, and a pretty good value. If there is any market for Crede (hard to believe there would be much after the year he just had) then good luck to him. Think we could send him to Seattle for Jeremy Reed?

DickAllen72
11-19-2004, 11:43 PM
The first move the Sox should do is sign FA 3B Corey Koskie [though his signing and a trade involving Joe Crede would be completed soon after]. Signing Koskie would then put the Sox in a better position to shore up their other holes, either by trade of free agency. A MN paper reports that the Twins have offered Koskie a 2 yr, $7 mill contract. And that despite some interest from a few teams, no other offers are on the table. The Sox could come in with a 3 yr offer that would be hard to beat, say $15 million or slightly below. That?s a decent contract for a guy like Koskie. He would give the Sox a LH bat that hits for a .280 avg, a good OBP, and solid defense. And provide a veteran for the IF to go along with Uribe and Harris [and possibly Gload if PK is traded].

No doubt Crede has upside. Yet, IMO, Harris and Uribe have even more so. Yet all three are question marks going into 2005. And IMO, having an entire infield of unproven players is too big a gamble, esp. seeing how hard it would be to add players mid-season. If anyone thinks a potential IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Gload [if PK is traded] sounds like one destined for the playoffs, I?ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy. Koskie?s solid production could be counted on in a day in day out basis. And allows the young IF to have some stability.

With Koskie signed, and Crede, Garland and PK as trading chips, the sox would have more flexibility via the trade route [which KW seems to prefer anyway] to fill their holes, starting w/ leadoff man Jason Kendall. A deal for Randy Johnson probably isn?t going to happen. But the Sox could put themselves in a better position for one of the ?big 3? or another young strating pitcher. Also, a guy like Crede would be a good risk for a team like Milw. or TB to take on. Getting a setup guy like Danys Baez, who makes a lot of money for TB, could happen. The key is getting flexibility. Get a few spots taken care of and fill in the rest. Going into 2005 with Uribe, Harris and potentially Gload as starters would already be a big risk. Hoping Crede breaks out just adds to risk. The best options via free agency seem to be 3B at this point, and Koskie sounds like the best value and best fit.


I'm with you. Acquiring Koskie would be a great move for the Sox.

beck72
11-20-2004, 06:42 AM
doesnt matter. doesnt look like koskie will be coming here anyway (thank god):

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpa2lpNnFzBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=knight-koskieexpectingmsoffer&prov=knight&type=lgns)
Koskie and his agent "assume" the M's are going to offer a contract, and expect one soon. Yet Glaus and Beltre are their 1st choices at 3B. It sounds like Koskie wants to go there very bad. But that Sea. will wait to see what pans out with the higher priced guys, at least a month or so.

I wouldn't count the sox out [provided they want Koskie]. He should be around a while. So don't thank anyone just yet