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Slow Mike
11-18-2004, 07:11 PM
Does anyone who listens to ESPN Radio or have ESPN insider access know how Jon Garland fits into the Randy Johnson trade? CAn the potential trade work without including Garland, IE by dealing Konerko w/ prospects for RJ? Because even if they acquired Randy Johnson and lost Garland, they are still a pitcher short, and we've all seen the 5th starter problems that they've had for the last four years. I don't think the deal fixes the problem if Garland is included in this one, because there is no one in house to step in his place. (not Jason Grilli please......be looking at another 1-11 fifth starters record)

MRKARNO
11-18-2004, 07:16 PM
White Sox Baseball: A day late and a pitcher short.

Soxzilla
11-18-2004, 07:17 PM
I think if they deal konerko and garland for RJ, as unlikely as that may be. They will look for another FA stop gap pitcher to throw in that 5th spot, like a Jon Lieber.

munchman33
11-18-2004, 08:03 PM
While the 5th starter has killed us the last few years, a rotation with RJ, MB, and FG at the top will be amongst the best.

dcb33
11-18-2004, 08:19 PM
I think if they deal konerko and garland for RJ, as unlikely as that may be. They will look for another FA stop gap pitcher to throw in that 5th spot, like a Jon Lieber.How do you fill the hole that would be left at 1B and make up for Konerko's lost production on offense? And don't say Frank Thomas. He's old, injury prone, not that good at the position, and doesn't want to play 1B anyway....

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 08:20 PM
How do you fill the hole that would be left at 1B and make up for Konerko's lost production on offense then? And don't say Frank Thomas. He's old, injury prone, not that good at the position, and doesn't want to play 1B anyway....
Ross Gload

Daver
11-18-2004, 08:30 PM
How do you fill the hole that would be left at 1B and make up for Konerko's lost production on offense? And don't say Frank Thomas. He's old, injury prone, not that good at the position, and doesn't want to play 1B anyway....
Frank Thomas.

dcb33
11-18-2004, 08:43 PM
Ross Gload
Ross Gload could work at 1B, but why not platoon him with Timo or Everett in RF?

If we get rid of Konerko, who will make commercials about team chemistry?

WLL1855
11-18-2004, 08:46 PM
Frank Thomas.
Daver, you are the man.

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 08:49 PM
Ross Gload could work at 1B, but why not platoon him with Timo or Everett in RF?

If we get rid of Konerko, who will make commercials about team chemistry?
I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want to see Ross Gload in the OF again!

Lip Man 1
11-18-2004, 11:18 PM
Remember Thomas may not be ready until May or even June. At this point how he recovers from that injury is anybody's guess.

Lip

chisox06
11-18-2004, 11:39 PM
I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want to see Ross Gload in the OF again!
Well on the contrary Gload is an excellent defensive 1st basemen, and thats where he belongs. Thomas on the other hand is scary at best, and considering the last 2 season ending injuries he's had were caused by playing 1st, I dont think we'll see him there anymore (even during interleague play).

As for Garland, hes a spoiled little twit. It would make me happy to see him play somewhere else next year. And if he can help get RJ over here, even better!

southsider17
11-18-2004, 11:54 PM
I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want to see Ross Gload in the OF again!
AMEN!

Jurr
11-19-2004, 01:14 AM
Remember Thomas may not be ready until May or even June. At this point how he recovers from that injury is anybody's guess.

LipThe other thing to remember is the stability of that ankle. He may not be able to take the lateral steps with the speed he needs to cover ground at first ever again.

That will be well worth watching. The more stress he puts on that joint complex throughout a season the worse he'll be.

Gload isn't some dynamic presence, but he seems very capable of playing a great 1st base and getting on base. I think of Jon Olerud when I see him.

StillMissOzzie
11-19-2004, 01:35 AM
I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want to see Ross Gload in the OF again!AMEN!I'll third that!

As for Judy & Walnuts for RJ, it does still leave a hole at #5 (which I was hoping Judy would be in 2005), but a much stronger #1 - #4. Typical Sox move, though, to plug one hole while opening another...

SMO
:gulp:

dcb33
11-19-2004, 01:35 AM
The other thing to remember is the stability of that ankle. He may not be able to take the lateral steps with the speed he needs to cover ground at first ever again.

That will be well worth watching. The more stress he puts on that joint complex throughout a season the worse he'll be.

Gload isn't some dynamic presence, but he seems very capable of playing a great 1st base and getting on base. I think of Jon Olerud when I see him.Gload is a great bench guy, but I'm not sold on the prospect of him being an everyday player. Also, if Frank is hurt and can't play the first couple months of the season, it would be stupid to trade Konerko away because then Gload would not be available to DH.
I guess the big question is, if the trade for Johnson was made, would Johnson produce enough wins (assuming he stays healthy for an entire season), to offset the number of games Garland would win plus the number of games that would be lost by subtracting Konerko's offensive production (41 HRs, 117RBI) from the lineup. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt Gload could produce numbers similar to Konerko's over an entire season, and considering how toothless our offense was after Maggs and Frank went down last season, I'm not all that high on getting one of the few guys we had in the lineup who wasn't an automatic out.

Mohoney
11-19-2004, 04:22 AM
Option A: Get Johnson, and sign a journeyman 5th starter. Live with Gload at 1B, hoping that Joe Crede, Ben Davis, or Carl Everett (hopefully all three) perform better than what they did a year ago and Frank comes back healthy. It's definitely a gamble, and I'm not denying that.

Option B: Sign a good free agent starter, and keep Konerko and Garland. Add without subtracting anything.

Option C: Trade for Vazquez or somebody like that, giving up Garland and farm depth but not Konerko, and signing a journeyman 5th starter. In essence, upgrading from Garland to a better pitcher without trading away a big bat.

I would have to go with Option A. We're attempting to dethrone the Twins, who not only had good pitching depth, but are also quite top-heavy (they had 2 pitchers on their staff finish in the top 5 in Cy Young voting). Johnson gives us a legitimate counter to whatever sickening numbers Santana will put up. Garcia vs. Radke (assuming the Twins keep him, and I sure hope they don't) at the #2 spot might be slightly in favor of Minnesota, but Buehrle will more than make that up against Carlos Silva in the #3 spot, and I think Contreras has an edge over Lohse at the #4 spot. We would just have to hope that whoever we bring in as a 5th starter can keep pace with whoever the Twins run out there (my guess is Joe Mays). Since their bullpen is better than our bullpen, we need to make our rotation dwarf their rotation to the point where our staff, as a whole, comes out decidedly on top, and I think Johnson does that for us.

If we don't get Johnson, we need to acquire somebody else that's very good, and we really need to hope and pray that Radke walks and they don't replace him with someone of comparable value, because Santana is the real deal and, as of right now, we wouldn't have any legitimate ace to match his productivity. Plus, I'm really starting to think that a Jon Garland/Kyle Lohse comparison is something of a wash. At this point, I would rather gamble on somebody else, anybody else, having a breakout season from the back end of our rotation than Garland. I'm sick of this guy making 30+ starts year in and year out and showing no improvement whatsoever.

I'm well aware that the guy pitched over 200 innings. I suffered through every one of them. Give me over 200 innings with Randy Johnson instead.

Jurr
11-19-2004, 08:35 AM
The thing with a guy like Johnson over Vazquez what he brings to a series as far as opponents' hitting PAST his start. Oakland hasn't been beating teams with their pitching because it is flat out dominant. The pitchers have great stuff, but it's the way it comes together that works. If a team is in a series and they've just been dealing with Zito's nasty curve, it makes a guy like Harden the next day that much more nasty. Then you get Mulder with his off speed stuff. It's harder to make that adjustment day to day than people realize. Wakefield in Boston works the same way...after dealing with Schilling's power stuff the day before, guys just can't throttle down as well to get to Wakefield.

If the Sox get Johnson, they've got a guy that's going to make players speed their bats up over the course of a ball game. Think about how nasty Shingo's going to seem after dealing with 99 mph heat. Then, in the next game, you're dealing with Buehrle's offspeed stuff, Garcia's mix of power and a curve, then comes Contreras with the knuckleball action on his forkball. That would be a well balanced pitching lineup that is balanced between lefties and righties as well as different pitching looks. Johnson gives that a lot more than Vazquez would.

The downer would be, of course, finding that 5th guy. There's nothing very settling about Grilli, Diaz, or any of those guys. You'd be hoping once again that they can pick up their games to make that fifth day at least winnable.

Getting Johnson would make all of the other pitchers look better than they are, and that's hard to find in a pitcher. That's why he's a Hall of Famer. The Sox would be lucky to get him, but that remains to be seen.