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View Full Version : Randy Johnson: Talks moving forward......


Mickster
11-18-2004, 02:24 PM
Thought it deserved it's own thread.

Rotowire.com reports that the Diamondbacks have approached RJ's agent. Decision by Friday? LINKY. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-andyohnsonradealksov&prov=rotowire&type=lgns)

Justafan
11-18-2004, 02:28 PM
Thought it deserved it's own thread.

Rotowire.com reports that the Diamondbacks have approached RJ's agent. Decision by Friday? LINKY. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-andyohnsonradealksov&prov=rotowire&type=lgns)
The question that must be asked is this. Do you feel RJ will say "I want to play for the White Sox" and forget the other teams in the mix? I think he ends up with the Yankees or Cardinals.

CarlosMay'sThumb
11-18-2004, 02:29 PM
Thought it deserved it's own thread.

Rotowire.com reports that the Diamondbacks have approached RJ's agent. Decision by Friday? LINKY. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-andyohnsonradealksov&prov=rotowire&type=lgns)
RJ would have to have a "senior moment" in order for him to drop his no trade clause to come to the Sox.:D:

Mickster
11-18-2004, 02:31 PM
RJ would have to have a "senior moment" in order for him to drop his no trade clause to come to the Sox.:D:
Not necessarily. If you add RJ to our staff, remove Garland and our 1-4 still looks awesome. Certainly one of the best, if not the best in the AL.

jabrch
11-18-2004, 02:34 PM
The question that must be asked is this. Do you feel RJ will say "I want to play for the White Sox" and forget the other teams in the mix? I think he ends up with the Yankees or Cardinals.

What do those teams have to trade that the D-Backs would want?

Jjav829
11-18-2004, 02:35 PM
I would imagine that the Sox would be the his 4th team of the 4 listed. That said, to get RJ the Sox will probably have to overpay because they will need to force Arizona to convince Randy to come here. If he goes to them and says, "I want to go to the Yankees, Angels, Cardinals, and White Sox, in that order," then they may be forced to try to accommodate him in that order. If the Sox step up with the best package, they might force Arizona to go back and tell RJ that the Sox trade is the one they want to make, and try to convince him to accept the trade.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 02:36 PM
What do those teams have to trade that the D-Backs would want?
What I mean is that those teams have a far better shot at winning a title then the Sox do. RJ wants to win and win now!

jabrch
11-18-2004, 02:37 PM
What I mean is that those teams have a far better shot at winning a title then the Sox do. RJ wants to win and win now!

Agreed, but STL and NYY really have very little to trade to Arizona.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 02:39 PM
Agreed, but STL and NYY really have very little to trade to Arizona.
Agreed as well. However, look for George to up the ante a bit and get this done. I just can't see him ending up here, I just can't.

rdivaldi
11-18-2004, 02:46 PM
The Vazquez 3 way trade could still be a possibility. I just don't see the Yanks having much to offer the D'Backs in the way of cheap, young talent.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 02:49 PM
The Vazquez 3 way trade could still be a possibility. I just don't see the Yanks having much to offer the D'Backs in the way of cheap, young talent.The D-backs are so deep in the hole financially that CASH is what George will offer to get this done. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the farm he ends up in Yankee land.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 02:50 PM
I would imagine that the Sox would be the his 4th team of the 4 listed. That said, to get RJ the Sox will probably have to overpay because they will need to force Arizona to convince Randy to come here. If he goes to them and says, "I want to go to the Yankees, Angels, Cardinals, and White Sox, in that order," then they may be forced to try to accommodate him in that order. If the Sox step up with the best package, they might force Arizona to go back and tell RJ that the Sox trade is the one they want to make, and try to convince him to accept the trade.I think you've laid it out pretty well, although "overpay" is in the eyes of the beholder. The Sox need to offer enough for the D-backs to reduce it down to the Sox or stay in Arizona. As I've said before, I think reaching 300 wins is more important to Johnson than even post-season potential. He needs 54 more, which is 3 more seasons wherever he goes. Which team is willing to give him a 2-year extension could also be as important as anything else.

santo=dorf
11-18-2004, 02:52 PM
Maybe JR and KW can go to Randy's house for Thanksgiving like Theo did with Schilling. I could imagine this scenario:

JR tells KW and Randy he's taking them to out for lunch, with JR picking up the tab.
Things are going well until Reinsdorf tells the waitress that he left his wallet in the car. JR then tells KW and Randy to leave the restaurant for the ol' "dine and run."

When they go back to Randy's place, Randy tells them that he was interested in playing with the Sox until the "dine and run" fiasco. KW in a rage flips over Randy's dining room table ruining Thanksgiving dinner for the Johnson's.

When JR and KW come back to Chicago, they are disappointed to tell the fans that RJ will not becoming to Chicago, and it's the fans fault. JR explains that had attendance been a little bit higher, he would've been able to afford lunch, and Randy would've agreed to play for the Sox.

:D:

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 02:52 PM
I would imagine that the Sox would be the his 4th team of the 4 listed. That said, to get RJ the Sox will probably have to overpay because they will need to force Arizona to convince Randy to come here. If he goes to them and says, "I want to go to the Yankees, Angels, Cardinals, and White Sox, in that order," then they may be forced to try to accommodate him in that order. If the Sox step up with the best package, they might force Arizona to go back and tell RJ that the Sox trade is the one they want to make, and try to convince him to accept the trade.
I agree with you. It's not like RJ is a FA. If the Dbacks like the Sox offer the best, they can just say "It's either the White Sox or stay with us." Between those choices, I would think that RJ would choose the Sox. BTW...it's not like RJ doesn't already have a WS ring. I think he might be more interested in getting his stas up (wins, K's, etc.) and IMO he has a much better chance of winning 20 games a year with the Sox than the Dbacks.

rdivaldi
11-18-2004, 02:53 PM
The D-backs are so deep in the hole financially that CASH is what George will offer to get this done. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the farm he ends up in Yankee land.
I've heard that as well. But you know what, if they're so strapped for cash, why in the world are they trying to sign "The Choice" to a free agent contract to play SS for them?

mjharrison72
11-18-2004, 02:53 PM
The Vazquez 3 way trade could still be a possibility. I just don't see the Yanks having much to offer the D'Backs in the way of cheap, young talent.Would we be happy with Vazquez coming to the Sox, if that's how such a trade would work? Probably better than Garland. OK... definitely better than Garland.

santo=dorf
11-18-2004, 02:56 PM
I agree with you. It's not like RJ is a FA. If the Dbacks like the Sox offer the best, they can just say "It's either the White Sox or stay with us." Between those choices, I would think that RJ would choose the Sox. BTW...it's not like RJ doesn't already have a WS ring. I think he might be more interested in getting his stas up (wins, K's, etc.) and IMO he has a much better chance of winning 20 games a year with the Sox than the Dbacks.
I e-mailed that scenario to Bruce Levine and he answered it on talking baseball last Friday. He felt that a third would HAVE to be brought in to get RJ out of Arizona, otherwise he would stay there. :(:

Justafan
11-18-2004, 02:59 PM
George will stop at nothing to get RJ. He saw that pitching is what cost him the ALCS and will not have a repeat embarrassment in 2005. He will offer so much $$ to the D-Backs that their head will spin. Again, the D-backs are in financial ruin from everything I have read.

They need money. Who do you call for money? King George.

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 03:00 PM
I e-mailed that scenario to Bruce Levine and he answered it on talking baseball last Friday. He felt that a third would HAVE to be brought in to get RJ out of Arizona, otherwise he would stay there. :(:
Oh well...let him stay there then and let him get his 300 wins in Arizona in 2008. :wink:

wdelaney72
11-18-2004, 03:22 PM
George will stop at nothing to get RJ. He saw that pitching is what cost him the ALCS and will not have a repeat embarrassment in 2005. He will offer so much $$ to the D-Backs that their head will spin. Again, the D-backs are in financial ruin from everything I have read.

They need money. Who do you call for money? King George.
George may stop at nothing, but he'll have to convince another team to take on any one of his overvalued contracts, which I don't see happening. Matsui is probably the only sensible contract on that team, and the Yankees aren't stupid enough to deal him.

Vazquez is over-paid with 3 years left to go. No thanks.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 03:26 PM
George will stop at nothing to get RJ. He saw that pitching is what cost him the ALCS and will not have a repeat embarrassment in 2005. He will offer so much $$ to the D-Backs that their head will spin. Again, the D-backs are in financial ruin from everything I have read.

They need money. Who do you call for money? King George.The Yankees aren't going to buy Johnson. When was the last time you heard of a contract being bought? The D-backs' problem is not so much cash on hand as cash flow. They are paying out a lot of $$$ on deferred money for players they no longer have (Schilling, for one). Steinbrenner would have to fork over tens of millions of dollars to have any impact on that, and not only do I not think he would, but I'm not sure the league would allow it.

I agree that Steinbrenner will move heaven and earth to try to get Johnson. But all the money in the world isn't going to help. The D-backs need cheap, good players and lots of them, and the Yanks don't have any. The only way the Yanks could pull this off is to involve a third team that does have prospects and would be willing to trade them for something the Yankees have. Don't count the Yankees out, but it's not as simple as Steinbrenner writing a big check to bail out the D-backs.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:31 PM
The Yankees aren't going to buy Johnson. When was the last time you heard of a contract being bought? The D-backs' problem is not so much cash on hand as cash flow. They are paying out a lot of $$$ on deferred money for players they no longer have (Schilling, for one). Steinbrenner would have to fork over tens of millions of dollars to have any impact on that, and not only do I not think he would, but I'm not sure the league would allow it.

I agree that Steinbrenner will move heaven and earth to try to get Johnson. But all the money in the world isn't going to help. The D-backs need cheap, good players and lots of them, and the Yanks don't have any. The only way the Yanks could pull this off is to involve a third team that does have prospects and would be willing to trade them for something the Yankees have. Don't count the Yankees out, but it's not as simple as Steinbrenner writing a big check to bail out the D-backs.You hear about cash deals all the time.

Example: The yankees and D-backs have agreed to a trade Randy Johnson for Player A and cash considerations.

Mickster
11-18-2004, 03:34 PM
You hear about cash deals all the time.

Example: The yankees and D-backs have agreed to a trade Randy Johnson for Player A and cash considerations.
"Cash considerations" in your reference usually means a part of Player A's contract. You will never hear NY trading Player A and $30M for randy Johnson of Player A's contract is only owed $20M. MLB would not allow it.

Flight #24
11-18-2004, 03:35 PM
You hear about cash deals all the time.

Example: The yankees and D-backs have agreed to a trade Randy Johnson for Player A and cash considerations.
IIRC, there are MLB restrictions on the amount of cash that can be sent in trades. The purpose being that you can't buy players from other teams.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:47 PM
"Cash considerations" in your reference usually means a part of Player A's contract. You will never hear NY trading Player A and $30M for randy Johnson of Player A's contract is only owed $20M. MLB would not allow it.
Player A=Jorge Pasada???=Cash considerations.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:50 PM
What I'm trying to say is that George will be pay a healthy portion of one of his big stars contract to make the deal for RJ work.

Tekijawa
11-18-2004, 03:54 PM
"Cash considerations" in your reference usually means a part of Player A's contract. You will never hear NY trading Player A and $30M for randy Johnson of Player A's contract is only owed $20M. MLB would not allow it.
Last I read Someone bought Babe Ruth for $100 G's, Can't remember who though? Some things never change.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 03:56 PM
Last I read Someone bought Babe Ruth for $100 G's, Can't remember who though? Some things never change.IIRC, the last time this was tried was Charlie Finley with the A's. The league nixed the deal. It might happen with low-level players, but never with the big dogs.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 04:00 PM
IIRC, the last time this was tried was Charlie Finley with the A's. The league nixed the deal. It might happen with low-level players, but never with the big dogs.Which is why George will eat a large portion of the contract on whoever he sends Arizona. Honestly, do you think this is not going to happen? Come on now.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 04:05 PM
Which is why George will eat a large portion of the contract on whoever he sends Arizona. Honestly, do you think this is not going to happen? Come on now.Of course he will, but that's not going to do it. Posada has something like $29M left on his contract. Even if Steinbrenner eats half of it, what good is that? So they get a catcher for the bargain price of $14M. They need young, cheap players and LOTS OF THEM. I guarantee you they'd much rather have 3 young players for the same money. Especially after they gave away a bunch of their young players for Sexson last year.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 04:13 PM
Of course he will, but that's not going to do it. Posada has something like $29M left on his contract. Even if Steinbrenner eats half of it, what good is that? So they get a catcher for the bargain price of $14M. They need young, cheap players and LOTS OF THEM. I guarantee you they'd much rather have 3 young players for the same money. Especially after they gave away a bunch of their young players for Sexson last year.
Lets not forget that George will also send over Vasquez and another player, thus making it a 3 for 1 deal and cash considerations.

nitetrain8601
11-18-2004, 04:38 PM
Lets not forget that George will also send over Vasquez and another player, thus making it a 3 for 1 deal and cash considerations.
So ARI still has money to pay for those players. Steinbrenner is not going to pay for 3 players and receive one. If that was the case, they would go well into the 300 mil mark. So if they were to get RJ with your deal, then no Beltran, no nothing.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 04:40 PM
So ARI still has money to pay for those players. Steinbrenner is not going to pay for 3 players and receive one. If that was the case, they would go well into the 300 mil mark. So if they were to get RJ with your deal, then no Beltran, no nothing.
They have money, just not alot of it from what I have read. Lets just leave it at George will do whatever it takes to get RJ to N.Y. He will make it worth Arizona's while.

pinwheels3530
11-18-2004, 04:52 PM
He'll end up in St. Louis, I don't think he wants to play in NY and the Sox are stuck in the middle because of JR's reputation as a owner.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 04:56 PM
Lets not forget that George will also send over Vasquez and another player, thus making it a 3 for 1 deal and cash considerations.Steinbrenner is NOT going to send Arizona 3 players and pay for all of them.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 05:15 PM
Steinbrenner is NOT going to send Arizona 3 players and pay for all of them.
I agree. But he will pay enough of one of those contracts to make this deal happen. If by chance he doesn't, RJ will be a Cardinal.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 05:16 PM
I agree. But he will pay enough of one of those contracts to make this deal happen. If by chance he doesn't, RJ will be a Cardinal.Who else is he going to send them? Bernie Williams? No. Maybe Derek Jeter? No. Alex Rodriguez? No. I know, Jason Giambi!!!!

nodiggity59
11-18-2004, 05:31 PM
Who else is he going to send them? Bernie Williams? No. Maybe Derek Jeter? No. Alex Rodriguez? No. I know, Jason Giambi!!!!
RJ will put pressure on them to go to NY, and you seem to forget the Yankees offer what Arizona wants MOST, which is money. Getting players of quality in return is a goal, but a secondary one nonetheless.

The only way I see RJ not in pinstripes is if he's dealt at the deadline next summer.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 05:33 PM
RJ will put pressure on them to go to NY, and you seem to forget the Yankees offer what Arizona wants MOST, which is money. Getting players of quality in return is a goal, but a secondary one nonetheless.

The only way I see RJ not in pinstripes is if he's dealt at the deadline next summer.
I tried telling him that, he's not in agreement for whatever reason.:?:

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 05:43 PM
I tried telling him that, he's not in agreement for whatever reason.:?:But THEY CAN'T SEND MONEY!!!! All they can do is send players and cash to pay their contracts. That does NOTHING to help their debt situation. They already turned down Posada. Which three players are they going to send and how much cash? If you think you can come up with something plausible, have at it.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 05:45 PM
But THEY CAN'T SEND MONEY!!!! All they can do is send players and cash to pay their contracts. That does NOTHING to help their debt situation. They already turned down Posada. Which three players are they going to send and how much cash? If you think you can come up with something plausible, have at it.
I don't know who the Yankees have in the high minors that would be worth it to the D-Backs. I do know that George will do whatever it takes to make RJ a Yankee. After he signs there, we can revisit this and talk about how he did it.

Flight #24
11-18-2004, 05:49 PM
I don't know who the Yankees have in the high minors that would be worth it to the D-Backs. I do know that George will do whatever it takes to make RJ a Yankee. After he signs there, we can revisit this and talk about how he did it.
I'm sure he wants to, but the same logic held at the trade deadline, but it didn't happen then either.

Without a 3d team getting involved, I don't see how the Yanks can get RJ. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it does make it more complicated and therefore less likely.

Not to mention that if he's going to do that, he could just go out and spend the $$$ on signing Pedro & Pavano, keep Posada/Vazquez, and have a deeper rotation (although weaker at the top).

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 05:50 PM
I don't know who the Yankees have in the high minors that would be worth it to the D-Backs.Nobody. That's just it. Their cupboard is bare. They've given up draft picks every year signing other teams' free agents and what little they had they traded away. If they had the prospects, Johnson would have been wearing pinstripes last year.

I don't count out the Yankees, but if they get Johnson, it won't be because they sent hugh amounts of cash to Arizona. They can't. It will be via a 3-way deal involving another team that DOES have young, cheap players they're willing to give up.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 05:53 PM
Nobody. That's just it. Their cupboard is bare. They've given up draft picks every year signing other teams' free agents and what little they had they traded away. If they had the prospects, Johnson would have been wearing pinstripes last year.

I don't count out the Yankees, but if they get Johnson, it won't be because they sent hugh amounts of cash to Arizona. They can't. It will be via a 3-way deal involving another team that DOES have young, cheap players they're willing to give up.
That is also possible. I just think that he will end up in N.Y. I don't think that is very far fetched at all. We'll see.

Mickster
11-18-2004, 05:53 PM
It will be via a 3-way deal involving another team that DOES have young, cheap players they're willing to give up.
...... and lots of cash. :D:

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 05:56 PM
That is also possible. I just think that he will end up in N.Y. I don't think that is very far fetched at all. We'll see.I don't think it's far fetched, either. But to say it will happen because the D-backs need cash and Steinbrenner has it is just plain wrong. Steinbrenner money can't help their cash crunch.

In other news...I'm hearing that the D-backs SS hole is about to be filled. They're believed to have made an offer to (drum roll, please) Royce Clayton. I wish them my best.

Mickster
11-18-2004, 05:59 PM
:thechoice :)

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 06:00 PM
:thechoice :)From what I'm hearing, you can put a snake on that cap.

Soxzilla
11-18-2004, 06:02 PM
What the hell is the choice? I must've missed that memo.

Hangar18
11-19-2004, 11:40 AM
Agreed as well. However, look for George to up the ante a bit and get this done. I just can't see him ending up here, I just can't.

Jerry Rein$dorf & Randy Johnson ..... those two shall never mix.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2004, 12:15 PM
FWIW:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-bbnt19.html

Lip

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 12:20 PM
FWIW:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-bbnt19.html

LipThey said the exact same thing about Freddy Garcia.

Mickster
11-19-2004, 12:21 PM
FWIW:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-bbnt19.html

Lip
Actually not worth much. I am glad that you provided us a link stating that Padilla thinks we're a longshot.....

Even on a short list, the White Sox would seem to be a long shot to land Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Randy Johnson.

Lip,

Have you EVER posted anything positie on this board?

fuzzy_patters
11-19-2004, 12:22 PM
Actually not worth much. I am glad that you provided us a link stating that Padilla thinks we're a longshot.....



Lip,

Have you EVER posted anything positie on this board?Have the Sox given much to be positive about since 1959?

Justafan
11-19-2004, 12:23 PM
FWIW:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-bbnt19.html

LipI'm stunned. I actually am more stunned that I argued with so many people here when I said there was no way the Sox would get RJ.

My take on it.

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, The White Sox are interested in you".

RJ: "I'll stay here before I ever go there. Reinsdorf is their owner, isn't he? I'll pass".

Mickster
11-19-2004, 12:27 PM
Have the Sox given much to be positive about since 1959?
For me thay have. I love going to games and love baseball in general. There is nothing like going the park, having a beer and watching baseball. Would I like a chanpionship? Well, duh. But it does not stop my love for this team.

Seems that all some people do here is complain, whine and actually take plasure in the Sox's failure. What will happen to these people if the Sox ever won the series? Probably find something else to complain about...

Mickster
11-19-2004, 12:27 PM
I'm stunned. I actually am more stunned that I argued with so many people here when I said there was no way the Sox would get RJ.

My take on it.

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, The White Sox are interested in you".

RJ: "I'll stay here before I ever go there. Reinsdorf is their owner, isn't he? I'll pass".
Did you even read the article? Are you stunned that Padilla thinks we are a longshot? Sheesh.

wdelaney72
11-19-2004, 12:41 PM
"This negative energy just makes me stronger"

Matt Dillon in Singles.

I still think the White Sox have the most to offer AZ in a trade. The Yankees and the Cards would all involve a third party, which would require the 3rd party to take on the contract of an overpaid player. I don't see it happening. I also don't see the Cards taking on his salary.

kraut83
11-19-2004, 01:35 PM
In other news...I'm hearing that the D-backs SS hole is about to be filled. They're believed to have made an offer to (drum roll, please) Royce Clayton. I wish them my best.
Maybe he'll be a throw in when we get RJ.

DMarte708
11-19-2004, 02:11 PM
Hopefully Johnson decides soon whether or not he's going to the Angels, Cardinals, of New York Yankees. Those teams are contenders with legitimate aspirations for a World Series.

When (no need to use 'if') RJ signs with another club, is this where the KW apologists claim: "he showed great patience in not offering to much for RJ," or "well...he was old and recently recovered from knee injury" Personally, I've oppose this trade since first mention, and would not use the opportunity to bash Williams or this organization. We may have not won anything in 80+ years, but the man at the helm is incapable of recognizing fair trade value. What concerns me the most is Williams panicking when a proposed deal is close to completion. I simple have no faith he could put togther a fair package for RJ.

Tekijawa
11-19-2004, 02:18 PM
RJ'S Agent: "Randy, The White Sox are interested in you".

RJ: "I'll stay here before I ever go there. Reinsdorf is their owner, isn't he? I'll pass".What about this one?

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, The White Sox are interested in you".

RJ: "I'll stay here before I ever go there. Reinsdorf is their owner, isn't he? I'll pass".

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, there's a guy from Phoenix Repo Depot here, he said that he needs anything with a Diamondbacks insignia on it, and he mentioned something about the wording "deffered money" in your contract."

RJ: "Reinsdorf still has money right? Get him back on the phone"



Keep in mind that Schilling left for this reason too, before it was announced that they D-Backs were 300 Million in debt.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 02:27 PM
the man at the helm is incapable of recognizing fair trade value.That's pretty funny coming from someone named DMarte. What's Matt Guerrier doing these days?

Mickster
11-19-2004, 02:34 PM
That's pretty funny coming from someone named DMarte. What's Matt Guerrier doing these days?
Pffft... Kenny Williams was lucky!

Palehose13
11-19-2004, 02:39 PM
That's pretty funny coming from someone named DMarte. What's Matt Guerrier doing these days?
Zing! :bandance:

Justafan
11-19-2004, 02:42 PM
That's pretty funny coming from someone named DMarte. What's Matt Guerrier doing these days?
Squirel meet nut.

spanishwhite
11-19-2004, 02:43 PM
". The Yankees and the Cards would all involve a third party, which would require the 3rd party to take on the contract of an overpaid player. I don't see it happening. I also don't see the Cards taking on his salary.
There is a rumor that has Soriano for Vazquez which would then get spun with some prospects to the Arizona D-Backs for Randy Johnson.

And if you don't think pitching poor Texas which put out about 25 different starters last year wouldn't take this deal your crazy.

BTW, Colangelo was "supposedly" forced out last Aug. 8th when he couldn't get rid of Johnson's salary. I think things are a little different now especially with different people running the show in Arizona.

Finally, Robinson Cano and Dioneer Navarro are not tearing up the International League, but 20 yr old prospects who hold up more than their own in AAA aren't exactly nothing. They are just not enough for a Cy Young Winner.

Paulwny
11-19-2004, 02:56 PM
[QUOTE=Mickster]For me thay have. I love going to games and love baseball in general. There is nothing like going the park, having a beer and watching baseball. Would I like a chanpionship? Well, duh. But it does not stop my love for this team.
QUOTE]

This is fine if the sox were the only game in town. The casual fan is going to spend his money on what he considers to be the more competative team and the team more likely to go to the play-offs. The longer the sox drought in play-off appearances the more likely the casual fan is to align himself to the cubs. Apparently the core cub fan base is larger so the sox need to rely on the casual fan to increase attendance.

I've heard Met fans express the same views which I read on this board, NYC has 8 million people the payroll should be $120-130 mil, blow the team up and rebuild with a strong minor league system. The one great flaw with the rebuild from the minors is it takes yrs. While the core fan might accept this the casual fan will attend games across town. Over the 4-5 yrs of rebuilding, how much of an attendance and revenue drop can the team live with ?, and can an owner belive that the casual fan will return or has he become the fan of the other team.

Flight #24
11-19-2004, 03:05 PM
What about this one?

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, The White Sox are interested in you".

RJ: "I'll stay here before I ever go there. Reinsdorf is their owner, isn't he? I'll pass".

RJ'S Agent: "Randy, there's a guy from Phoenix Repo Depot here, he said that he needs anything with a Diamondbacks insignia on it, and he mentioned something about the wording "deffered money" in your contract."

RJ: "Reinsdorf still has money right? Get him back on the phone"



Keep in mind that Schilling left for this reason too, before it was announced that they D-Backs were 300 Million in debt.
Did I miss something? Does it say anywhere that Randy has said yes or no to anything, that his agents said anything, or have anything other than Padilla's speculation? He doesn't even offer any real rationale for why or have any comments from anyone involved.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 03:06 PM
Did I miss something? Does it say anywhere that Randy has said yes or no to anything, that his agents said anything, or have anything other than Padilla's speculation? He doesn't even offer any real rationale for why or have any comments from anyone involved.Are you insinuating that Padilla's article was nothing but speculation? I've never heard of such a thing!!!

Palehose13
11-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Did I miss something? Does it say anywhere that Randy has said yes or no to anything, that his agents said anything, or have anything other than Padilla's speculation? He doesn't even offer any real rationale for why or have any comments from anyone involved.Nope. Didn't miss a thing, my phreaky one. People are assuming that Randy does not want to play for the White Sox. IIRC, the white sox were on his list of six teams that he would approve a trade to. Why people assume that would change...who knows?

Maybe Randy will be like Curt Schilling and come on this board to chat wih the fans. Oh wait a minute...maybe we don't want him to do that. :o:

Justafan
11-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Did I miss something? Does it say anywhere that Randy has said yes or no to anything, that his agents said anything, or have anything other than Padilla's speculation? He doesn't even offer any real rationale for why or have any comments from anyone involved.
Corey Mcpherin stated on his 9:50 sports segment last night that according to MLB sources, the White Sox would not be a team RJ would approve a deal to. Maybe that is where Padilla got his story from.

Ol' No. 2
11-19-2004, 03:11 PM
Corey Mcpherin stated on his 9:50 sports segment last night that according to MLB sources, the White Sox would not be a team RJ would approve a deal to. Maybe that is where Padilla got his story from.Is this classic or what? One reporter says it. Another repeats it. Then another, and another. And pretty soon it's gospel. I think they just took all their stories from last summer, crossed out Freddy Garcia and wrote in Randy Johnson, and presto! an easy story.

JKryl
11-19-2004, 03:55 PM
RJ would have to have a "senior moment" in order for him to drop his no trade clause to come to the Sox.:D:
If he's normal, he thinks NY sucks, and St Louis is second rate. Hey, I can hope can't I.




White Sox baseball, every day is an adventure.

wdelaney72
11-19-2004, 04:27 PM
There is a rumor that has Soriano for Vazquez which would then get spun with some prospects to the Arizona D-Backs for Randy Johnson.

And if you don't think pitching poor Texas which put out about 25 different starters last year wouldn't take this deal your crazy.

Vazquez will make $10.5 million in '05, $11.5 million in '06, and $12.5 million in '07. HE'S WAY OVERPAID. Texas would be stupid for taking on that contract, they'd be better served by keeping RJ for themselves or aggressively going after some of the FA pitchers available. Besides, it's too soon for the Yankees to give up on Vazquez and eat a large portion of the contract. The Yankees are DYING for starting pitching. They will be looking to dump Kevin Brown before they trade away Vazquez, which means they'll be looking to bring in 3 starting pitchers. The Yankees best option is to sign pitchers from the FA available. They have the ability to overpay for players, but other teams don't have the ability to take on the stupid contracts given by the Yankees.

Flight #24
11-19-2004, 04:30 PM
Vazquez will make $10.5 million in '05, $11.5 million in '06, and $12.5 million in '07. HE'S WAY OVERPAID. Texas would be stupid for taking on that contract, they'd be better served by keeping RJ for themselves or aggressively going after some of the FA pitchers available. Besides, it's too soon for the Yankees to give up on Vazquez and eat a large portion of the contract. The Yankees are DYING for starting pitching. They will be looking to dump Kevin Brown before they trade away Vazquez, which means they'll be looking to bring in 3 starting pitchers. The Yankees best option is to sign pitchers from the FA available. They have the ability to overpay for players, but other teams don't have the ability to take on the stupid contracts given by the Yankees.
True. The only way the deal gets done is if the Yanks absorb RJ's salary and pay for a chunk of Vazquez's salary (or if it's Brown, just about all of it).

MRKARNO
11-19-2004, 06:31 PM
FWIW:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-bbnt19.html

Lip
Today Barry Rosner wrote:

Don't believe for a second that the White Sox are only flirting with Arizona, because they're dead serious about chasing Randy Johnson.

Sox GM Kenny Williams has been counted out of these races before and wound up winning in the end, so don't sell short his creativity and aggressiveness when it comes to landing the big fish - or in this case, the Big Unit.

He came out of nowhere with the Colon trade and in some respects this situation is more similar to the Freddy Garcia situation where we weren't the flashiest team offering a deal, but we had the best package. Judging by what has been rumored to be offered, by each of the teams (Haren, Calero and Ankiel by the cards, Vazquez by the Yanks and Konerko and Garland by us), we might have the best deal out there.

Jabroni
11-19-2004, 07:01 PM
Today Barry Rosner wrote:



He came out of nowhere with the Colon trade and in some respects this situation is more similar to the Freddy Garcia situation where we weren't the flashiest team offering a deal, but we had the best package. Judging by what has been rumored to be offered, by each of the teams (Haren, Calero and Ankiel by the cards, Vazquez by the Yanks and Konerko and Garland by us), we might have the best deal out there.I agree with you. We are offering the best package for Arizona. A great first baseman in Konerko who will replace Sexson (who they probably won't be able to resign) and a promising young starting pitcher in Garland. :tongue:

Arizona is just holding out for the highest bidder right now. They probably wanted us to throw Rowand into the deal but that is too much. Arizona's asking price will come down sooner or later and they will make a deal.

jabrch
11-20-2004, 05:02 AM
IIRC, there are MLB restrictions on the amount of cash that can be sent in trades. The purpose being that you can't buy players from other teams.

Except that the commish kinda threw that out the window last year when he allowed the Rangers to send a silly large pile of cash to the Yanks to take A-Rod. It is to his disgression.

Flight #24
11-20-2004, 09:25 AM
Except that the commish kinda threw that out the window last year when he allowed the Rangers to send a silly large pile of cash to the Yanks to take A-Rod. It is to his disgression.
Huge difference in sending cash to pay for the players contract and sending cash that the team can use. NYY could send over cash to cover the contract of a Posada/Vazquez, but could not simply send over cash or send over more cash than required for the player.

jabrch
11-20-2004, 10:15 AM
Huge difference in sending cash to pay for the players contract and sending cash that the team can use. NYY could send over cash to cover the contract of a Posada/Vazquez, but could not simply send over cash or send over more cash than required for the player.


Right...got that...I understand...

Hangar18
11-25-2004, 03:22 PM
Maybe JR and KW can go to Randy's house for Thanksgiving like Theo did with Schilling. I could imagine this scenario:

JR tells KW and Randy he's taking them to out for lunch, with JR picking up the tab.
Things are going well until Reinsdorf tells the waitress that he left his wallet in the car. JR then tells KW and Randy to leave the restaurant for the ol' "dine and run."

When they go back to Randy's place, Randy tells them that he was interested in playing with the Sox until the "dine and run" fiasco. KW in a rage flips over Randy's dining room table ruining Thanksgiving dinner for the Johnson's.

When JR and KW come back to Chicago, they are disappointed to tell the fans that RJ will not becoming to Chicago, and it's the fans fault. JR explains that had attendance been a little bit higher, he would've been able to afford lunch, and Randy would've agreed to play for the Sox.

:D:
One of the FUNNIEST posts Ive read in quite some time heh heh.
Life imitates Art