PDA

View Full Version : Reinsdorf backpedals from KW's "No-Boras" stance...


mweflen
11-18-2004, 11:28 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox18.html


My mind is filled with images of the three stooges, with KW as Curly and JR as Moe...

In other Scum-Times news, they predict Dye is "the best we'll do."

Let's go 2006!

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 11:31 AM
Reinsdorf also told the station the Sox didn't go after shortstop Cristian Guzman because his offensive numbers outside of the Metrodome were ''pathetic,'' and the team thought offering a three-year deal to Omar Vizquel was too big of a risk.
For those of you that jumped the gun and though the Sox were the other team making an offer...

Flight #24
11-18-2004, 11:33 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox18.html


My mind is filled with images of the three stooges, with KW as Curly and JR as Moe...

In other Scum-Times news, they predict Dye is "the best we'll do."

Let's go 2006!
Interesting use of the term "backpedal", since KW never said he wouldn't negotiate with Boras, in fact - he said pretty much exactly what Reinsdorf did. Don't buy into the Trib/Moronotti hype machine.

Rocky Soprano
11-18-2004, 11:34 AM
Boras also said that he has only talked to the Sox about two or three pitchers and Maggs. He said they have not spoken about any other player.

mweflen
11-18-2004, 11:47 AM
Interesting use of the term "backpedal", since KW never said he wouldn't negotiate with Boras, in fact - he said pretty much exactly what Reinsdorf did. Don't buy into the Trib/Moronotti hype machine.
From the original Trib story:


"I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said Monday.

Why?

"Let's just say that we both respectfully agree to disagree on the value of his players," Williams replied.

While not exactly saying there is no way in the universe he'd sign a current FA Boras client, KW's words are much stronger than JR's 'softening' of the message - especially for a GM in the throes of the offseason signing period. So call it what you want - softening, backbedaling, it's definitely a minor PR reversal of KW's statements by JR.

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 11:53 AM
From the original Trib story:


While not exactly saying there is no way in the universe he'd sign a current FA Boras client, KW's words are much stronger than JR's 'softening' of the message - especially for a GM in the throes of the offseason signing period. So call it what you want - softening, backbedaling, it's definitely a minor PR reversal of KW's statements by JR.
What?!?!? Do you work for the tribune?
How is:

''I think what Kenny was trying to say was that Boras has some grand ideas about what his players should be making, and it's going to drag out a long time,'' Reinsdorf told WSCR (670-AM). ''And we're not going to sit around and wait.''
"softening" the message.

JR and KW have said exactly the same thing and it wasn't that they aren't going to deal with Boras. I don't see any reversal at all.

fquaye149
11-18-2004, 11:55 AM
^^ph...you should know by now, logic is not an easy thing to come by when it comes to sox fans' relationship to management.

Jabroni
11-18-2004, 11:56 AM
Hehe, at least JR realizes Christian Guzman's suckiness...
Reinsdorf also told the station the Sox didn't go after shortstop Cristian Guzman because his offensive numbers outside of the Metrodome were ''pathetic,'' and the team thought offering a three-year deal to Omar Vizquel was too big of a risk.:)

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 11:57 AM
^^ph...you should know by now, logic is not an easy thing to come by when it comes to sox fans' relationship to management.I know, but I guess I'll always keep trying.:thud:

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 12:01 PM
What?!?!? Do you work for the tribune?
How is:
"softening" the message.

JR and KW have said exactly the same thing and it wasn't that they aren't going to deal with Boras. I don't see any reversal at all.

Holy crap, has any quote ever been taken about of context by so many people?!?

There are just certain players (like Beltran) they know they cannot afford and just aren't going to waste their time bidding on when they know teams like the Yankees will offer the moon and the stars to sign him.

No place in either quote does it say they will not deal with Boras at all.

Especially considering Boras has already said that they have talked to him about a couple of pitchers.

Jabroni
11-18-2004, 12:06 PM
In other Scum-Times news, they predict Dye is "the best we'll do."The biggest question is why would the Sox go after Dye? We already have enough outfielders for next season -- Carlos Lee in LF, Aaron Rowand in CF, and Carl Everett/Joe Borchard in RF. Dye is not any better than Carl Everett so this kind of signing would indicate to me that the Sox are unsure if Frank will be healthy in time for next year. It seems to me that it would be a fallback plan if Frank is not healthy and they would put Dye in RF and Everett at DH. :o:

Paulwny
11-18-2004, 12:07 PM
Anyone know, who was and when was the last Boras fa signed by the sox?, not traded for but, signed as a fa.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 12:12 PM
The biggest question is why would the Sox go after Dye? We already have enough outfielders for next season -- Carlos Lee in LF, Aaron Rowand in CF, and Carl Everett/Joe Borchard in RF. Dye is not any better than Carl Everett so this kind of signing would indicate to me that the Sox are unsure if Frank will be healthy in time for next year. It seems to me that it would be a fallback plan if Frank is not healthy and they would put Dye in RF and Everett at DH. :o:Dye would be a lot better defensively than Everett, not that that's all that difficult.:(: I know Kenny just loves Dino, for reasons I can't fathom, but I still see him on the team more as insurance against the possibility that Thomas isn't ready to go.

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 12:13 PM
Holy crap, has any quote ever been taken about of context by so many people?!?

There are just certain players (like Beltran) they know they cannot afford and just aren't going to waste their time bidding on when they know teams like the Yankees will offer the moon and the stars to sign him.

No place in either quote does it say they will not deal with Boras at all.

Especially considering Boras has already said that they have talked to him about a couple of pitchers.
Did you think that I was taking it out of context? Cause you pretty much said what I was trying to say.

SoxxoS
11-18-2004, 12:13 PM
The biggest question is why would the Sox go after Dye? We already have enough outfielders for next season -- Carlos Lee in LF, Aaron Rowand in CF, and Carl Everett/Joe Borchard in RF. Dye is not any better than Carl Everett so this kind of signing would indicate to me that the Sox are unsure if Frank will be healthy in time for next year. It seems to me that it would be a fallback plan if Frank is not healthy and they would put Dye in RF and Everett at DH. :o:

First of all, Borchard shouldn't be counted on for anything. If he was just coming off his 2001 AA season, then I would say he would be a fine option for a 4th outfielder. But he's not. He is out of the picture until further notice.

So now we have CLee, Rowand, Everett. Everett is injury prone. You need a 4th outfielder for depth purposes. Dye most likely would be signed not to be the 4th outfielder, but you need depth regardless.

To me, signing Dye signals trade to me. Move CLee to first base and trade Konerko possibly...

Jabroni
11-18-2004, 12:14 PM
Dye would be a lot better defensively than Everett, not that that's all that difficult.:(: I know Kenny just loves Dino, for reasons I can't fathom, but I still see him on the team more as insurance against the possibility that Thomas isn't ready to go.So the Sox are going to pay Everett $4 million next season to sit on the bench and be an insurance policy? Come on, this is the Sox we're talking about here. :cool: The only way I see us signing Dye is if they think Frank won't be healthy in time for the start of the season.

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 12:18 PM
Did you think that I was taking it out of context? Cause you pretty much said what I was trying to say.

I was looking mostly at this:

they aren't going to deal with Boras.

That to me sounds like you meant they wouldn't talk to him at all about anyone.

I'm taking the KW/JR quotes as they aren't going to get dragged into bidding on players they have no chance of signing (see the Arod fiasco a couple of years ago and that's likely what will happen with Beltran this year) but they will still deal with Boras if he's willing to negotiate a fair deal.

Jabroni
11-18-2004, 12:20 PM
I'm taking the KW/JR quotes as they aren't going to get dragged into bidding on players they have no chance of signing (see the Arod fiasco a couple of years ago and that's likely what will happen with Beltran this year) but they will still deal with Boras if he's willing to negotiate a fair deal.That's the way I see it.

GAsoxfan
11-18-2004, 12:21 PM
The biggest question is why would the Sox go after Dye? We already have enough outfielders for next season -- Carlos Lee in LF, Aaron Rowand in CF, and Carl Everett/Joe Borchard in RF. Dye is not any better than Carl Everett so this kind of signing would indicate to me that the Sox are unsure if Frank will be healthy in time for next year. It seems to me that it would be a fallback plan if Frank is not healthy and they would put Dye in RF and Everett at DH. :o:
If you have Borchard listed as our 4th outfielder, then the Sox DEFINITELY need more outfielders. Also, I don't want to depend too much on Everett. If the Sox go into this season with the current outfield and one of the starters goes down, the Sox are left with Borchard or Perez as an everyday player.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 12:22 PM
So the Sox are going to pay Everett $4 million next season to sit on the bench and be an insurance policy? Come on, this is the Sox we're talking about here. :cool:He wouldn't be sitting on the bench. As I see it, he will probably start the season at DH until Thomas is able to play. No one really knows when that will happen, so they're keeping Dino at least until then. In the meantime they need another OF. Dye might fit the bill unless they have a better option (Juan Pierre, anyone?). Once Thomas is back and his old self (don't ask me WHICH old self) they will have a decision to make: put Dino in the OF and keep the other guy as a bench player or trade someone. We'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

jabrch
11-18-2004, 12:25 PM
cheap and stupid

regardless of the facts of the situation. And if misquotes or non-quotes help to make that case - that's even better.

There are some who hate JR and/or KW so much that any sort of logic will be forgone when given the opportunity to come up with their next cute quip or insult - again - disregarding any facts that contradict their arguements.

Lip Man 1
11-18-2004, 01:01 PM
Jabrch....dictator for life of the **** club. LOL

Seriously Uncle Jerry is a brilliant business man. He makes his statements that present the image that the Sox are open to all possibilities. However he knows and so do many fans, that Boras' top players are going to command far more money then the Sox are able (or willing) to spend. Bottom line...his comments were a nice PR spin on a situation already determined by the market and the Sox inability to be a player in it.

Why should any Sox fan be surprised at this spin? Uncle Jerry is trying to take some of the heat off Williams as well as try to keep those ticket sales going. Do you think he's going to come out and say the Sox 'can't afford any of Boras' clients?'

I do not like the pond scum but give him his props. He knows business and if he said that, the Sox would feel the result in the pocketbook.

His comments came as no surpise to me after the stories about Williams' comments in all the major papers.

I suggest reading the story in the Daily Southtown today which quotes Boras on his take of the Sox situation.

Lip

Soxzilla
11-18-2004, 01:02 PM
If the Carlodactyl comes to spring training in any shape ... is there any possibility he can play first? I'd rather keep Carlos out in the outfield rather than Everett ... if we bring in Dye.

As for signing Dye ... if they want to bring him in as insurance, I don't mind that. :cool: As long as they find replacements for the guys that need to be starting.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 01:03 PM
However he knows and so do many fans, that Boras' top players are going to command far more money then the Sox are able (or willing) to spend. Isn't that the gist of what KW said?

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 01:07 PM
If the Carlodactyl comes to spring training in any shape ... is there any possibility he can play first? I'd rather keep Carlos out in the outfield rather than Everett ... if we bring in Dye.

As for signing Dye ... if they want to bring him in as insurance, I don't mind that. :cool: As long as they find replacements for the guys that need to be starting.I expect Thomas is not going to be ready to play before May at the earliest, and more likely June. As it stands now, that would make the most likely possibility Dino at DH and someone else in the OF. They're going to want someone cheap, as once Thomas returns, they're probably going to have to either have him riding the bench or tradeable.

Jjav829
11-18-2004, 01:16 PM
Hehe, at least JR realizes Christian Guzman's suckiness...
:)Maybe he should step down as chairman and take over the reigns as GM...:D:

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 01:57 PM
I was looking mostly at this:
Originally Posted by Palehose13
they aren't going to deal with Boras.



That to me sounds like you meant they wouldn't talk to him at all about anyone.

I'm taking the KW/JR quotes as they aren't going to get dragged into bidding on players they have no chance of signing (see the Arod fiasco a couple of years ago and that's likely what will happen with Beltran this year) but they will still deal with Boras if he's willing to negotiate a fair deal.Well then read the entire sentence. I wrote this:
JR and KW have said exactly the same thing and it wasn't that they aren't going to deal with Boras. I guess the double negative made it confusing, but we are on the same page.
So go school those other boneheads, will ya'? :tongue:

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 02:01 PM
Well then read the entire sentence. I wrote this:
I guess the double negative made it confusing, but we are on the same page.
So go school those other boneheads, will ya'? :tongue:

:redface: Reading is a skill.

:nuts: <----- me

I gotcha now. :D:

mweflen
11-18-2004, 02:02 PM
Holy crap, has any quote ever been taken about of context by so many people?!?

There are just certain players (like Beltran) they know they cannot afford and just aren't going to waste their time bidding on when they know teams like the Yankees will offer the moon and the stars to sign him.

No place in either quote does it say they will not deal with Boras at all.

Especially considering Boras has already said that they have talked to him about a couple of pitchers.
I'm not trying to take KW's comments out of context, and I am not an irrational hater of KW. But his statement that "I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients" (the exact quote, no funny business here) in the context of the free agent negotiation period is tantamount to saying that there is little point in negotiating further. If he said, on the record, in a public forum: "I do not expect to sign Magglio Ordonez," would it be so out of bounds to infer that talks are dead and there is no chance?

mweflen
11-18-2004, 02:14 PM
If we get Dye for a 1yr/$2-3mm deal, I'm for it. That way, Carl can DH while Frank recovers, Dye will probably hit .280 with power until his inevitable season-ending injury, and we can just be done with it by 2006.

It's just too bad we won't even negotiate for someone like J.D. Drew. :cool:

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 02:32 PM
I'm not trying to take KW's comments out of context, and I am not an irrational hater of KW. But his statement that "I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients" (the exact quote, no funny business here) in the context of the free agent negotiation period is tantamount to saying that there is little point in negotiating further. If he said, on the record, in a public forum: "I do not expect to sign Magglio Ordonez," would it be so out of bounds to infer that talks are dead and there is no chance?
Yes, he doesn't expect to sign any Boras clients because they agree to disagree on the value of the players he represents. I happen to agree with KW and JR about that. And then all of a sudden the media and some fans blow it all out of context and claim that KW and JR will not deal with Boras (a fine example is the Moronotti interview with Boras). Since they disagree on the value of his players, it is obvious to me that the two have talked.

But then again, the White Sox organization is obviously in the axis of evil and are only out to screw the fans.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 02:33 PM
I'm not trying to take KW's comments out of context, and I am not an irrational hater of KW. But his statement that "I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients" (the exact quote, no funny business here) in the context of the free agent negotiation period is tantamount to saying that there is little point in negotiating further. If he said, on the record, in a public forum: "I do not expect to sign Magglio Ordonez," would it be so out of bounds to infer that talks are dead and there is no chance?I think there's also a part of what Kenny said that is implied:

"I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients (at the ridiculous prices he's asking)."

mweflen
11-18-2004, 02:54 PM
I think there's also a part of what Kenny said that is implied:

"I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients (at the ridiculous prices he's asking)."
I agree with not signing players at Scott Boras prices. I just disagree with the negotiating tactic of blabbing to the universe that you're not in the market for players X,Y and Z for whatever reason. It's stupid - because then the agents for players T, U and V will pounce on you and jack up their prices because they know you're desperate. I think it was a stupid amateur slip on KW's part.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2004, 03:00 PM
I agree with not signing players at Scott Boras prices. I just disagree with the negotiating tactic of blabbing to the universe that you're not in the market for players X,Y and Z for whatever reason. It's stupid - because then the agents for players T, U and V will pounce on you and jack up their prices because they know you're desperate. I think it was a stupid amateur slip on KW's part.Or, it's a message to Boras that he's not going to bite on the inflated prices (and maybe to the fans, also). I hardly think not bidding on Carlos Beltran automatically makes you "desperate".

mweflen
11-18-2004, 03:07 PM
Or, it's a message to Boras that he's not going to bite on the inflated prices (and maybe to the fans, also). I hardly think not bidding on Carlos Beltran automatically makes you "desperate".
Beltran isn't the only Boras player the Sox would be wise to at least have an interest in. Seems to me Boras has a few pretty good OF's, SP's, and C's in his stable of clients. To say we're not likely to sign any of them is frankly pretty disheartening.