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Terry21fg
11-18-2004, 11:28 AM
Fellow Sox Fans-

While I realize that I have basically no reputation on this board, I have been a long time reader and a White Sox fan since 1981 (the year I was born). I, unfortunately no longer live on the South Side, and have moved to Milwaukee 6 years ago (for school, and my career), but still make it to 8-12 games per year despite a 100 mile drive. Thus, you can take this for what it's worth.

Over the past few weeks there has been a lot of tension, a lot of arguing, and a lot of impatience regarding the White Sox off season. While I'm frustrated as much as the next person at the moves/lack of moves the Sox have made, we have to realize a few things:

1. Kenny Williams is not out to purposely make this team a loser. He has to look out for the best interest of the team, the fans, the city, and most importantly, his boss, JR. Whether we like JR or not, it is his money, and his choice on what he does or does not do with it. Whether you have liked some of the moves KW has made, at least he's been aggressive and shown a desire to put a winner out on the field. You cannot blame the guy for a lack of effort.

2. Scott Boras is a scum bag, bottom line. Now that doesn't mean you don't do business with him. No matter what is said, Boras controls a majority of the top notch free agent talent. Whether Kenny said he wouldn't do business with him or not, I would rather Kenny take an ethical and bold stance and finally put his foot down and say "no, I'm not going to overpay a player"....besides, I'd rather spend 18 million on 2 or 3 players to fill a couple of holes, rather then 18 million on one player. If the Sox want to stick to the Minnesota model of winning (pitching, defense, speed), then spending 18-20 million on one player (known for his offense) would not be the answer.

3. Let's not get to upset on what we have missed (Vizquel and Guzman)....Guzman does NOT improve this team. Vizquel would have been upgrade, but for 12 million for 3 years, I'd rather invest it in a younger player, even a pitcher. Kenny and Oz have both said adding a top of the line pitcher is the Top Priority, if that means giving up a lot of talent, then so be it, the priority is pitching, not hitting, not a players popularity. If adding the Big Unit improves the starting staff (which I think we can all say with zero doubt it would), then add the Big Unit. The Twins are losing players left and right, they will not be the same team next year (notice I didn't say they wouldn't be competitive). The AL central is changing, Cleveland and Detroit are making moves to improve their teams, it will be a season where having the best pitching staff wins the division.

4. Let's have some patience please, the FA off season is less then a week old and already people are freaking out. If a move is not made to fill a hole at SS or RF, it's not the end of the world. Let's just say that the only moves the Sox make is for Dye and Lieber (or some other avg/slightly above avg pitcher). The team is still strong enough to be competitive. Like I said earlier, adding a pitcher has to be the priority, if the Sox are competitive before the All-Star Break, a trade for a bat, or position player would be easier to pull off then getting a front line starter.

Only making 2 moves gives us this lineup.

Rowand CF Buehrle
Uribe SS Garcia
Thomas DH Lieber/Whoever
Konerko 1B Garland
Lee LF Contreras
Dye RF
Crede 3B
Harris 2B
Davis C
Lets just sit back, relax and be patient.

gosox41
11-18-2004, 11:41 AM
Fellow Sox Fans-

While I realize that I have basically no reputation on this board, I have been a long time reader and a White Sox fan since 1981 (the year I was born). I, unfortunately no longer live on the South Side, and have moved to Milwaukee 6 years ago (for school, and my career), but still make it to 8-12 games per year despite a 100 mile drive. Thus, you can take this for what it's worth.

Over the past few weeks there has been a lot of tension, a lot of arguing, and a lot of impatience regarding the White Sox off season. While I'm frustrated as much as the next person at the moves/lack of moves the Sox have made, we have to realize a few things:

1. Kenny Williams is not out to purposely make this team a loser. He has to look out for the best interest of the team, the fans, the city, and most importantly, his boss, JR. Whether we like JR or not, it is his money, and his choice on what he does or does not do with it. Whether you have liked some of the moves KW has made, at least he's been aggressive and shown a desire to put a winner out on the field. You cannot blame the guy for a lack of effort.

2. Scott Boras is a scum bag, bottom line. Now that doesn't mean you don't do business with him. No matter what is said, Boras controls a majority of the top notch free agent talent. Whether Kenny said he wouldn't do business with him or not, I would rather Kenny take an ethical and bold stance and finally put his foot down and say "no, I'm not going to overpay a player"....besides, I'd rather spend 18 million on 2 or 3 players to fill a couple of holes, rather then 18 million on one player. If the Sox want to stick to the Minnesota model of winning (pitching, defense, speed), then spending 18-20 million on one player (known for his offense) would not be the answer.

3. Let's not get to upset on what we have missed (Vizquel and Guzman)....Guzman does NOT improve this team. Vizquel would have been upgrade, but for 12 million for 3 years, I'd rather invest it in a younger player, even a pitcher. Kenny and Oz have both said adding a top of the line pitcher is the Top Priority, if that means giving up a lot of talent, then so be it, the priority is pitching, not hitting, not a players popularity. If adding the Big Unit improves the starting staff (which I think we can all say with zero doubt it would), then add the Big Unit. The Twins are losing players left and right, they will not be the same team next year (notice I didn't say they wouldn't be competitive). The AL central is changing, Cleveland and Detroit are making moves to improve their teams, it will be a season where having the best pitching staff wins the division.

4. Let's have some patience please, the FA off season is less then a week old and already people are freaking out. If a move is not made to fill a hole at SS or RF, it's not the end of the world. Let's just say that the only moves the Sox make is for Dye and Lieber (or some other avg/slightly above avg pitcher). The team is still strong enough to be competitive. Like I said earlier, adding a pitcher has to be the priority, if the Sox are competitive before the All-Star Break, a trade for a bat, or position player would be easier to pull off then getting a front line starter.

Only making 2 moves gives us this lineup.

Rowand CF Buehrle
Uribe SS Garcia
Thomas DH Lieber/Whoever
Konerko 1B Garland
Lee LF Contreras
Dye RF
Crede 3B
Harris 2B
Davis C
Lets just sit back, relax and be patient.



Good post. People need to realize that if the Sox are in the running for RJ and/or Beltran then it's going to limit what they can do elsewhere. If they're having semi-serious talks of trading PK and Garland for RJ, then they can't be traded elsewhere right now for Pierre or Kendall unless KW things they're a better option.

It'll probably be Dec. before the big name free agents start signing setting a market for the rest of the league. I have no doubt KW is working hard to put a winning team together, though I do have doubt of whether he is capable of it.


Bob

Baby Fisk
11-18-2004, 11:51 AM
It's a tense time, reflected in most of the posts here the past couple of weeks. We all want to see some positive moves made this off-season, and it's making for some anxious times. Regardless of what KW does, it will be thoroughly analyzed here, it's just a matter of WHEN. At the moment there's only speculation... and tension.

More lurkers/readers should post more often. :thumbsup:

fquaye149
11-18-2004, 11:56 AM
:threadrules:

CarlosMay'sThumb
11-18-2004, 12:16 PM
Lets just sit back, relax and be patient.


Listen, I know it's easy when you're 23 years old to say "be patient". The facts are that this team is going nowhere fast. There has been absolutely zero net on-field improvements to the White Sox since KW got here. Be patient for what, exactly? The fans of the White Sox have been waiting 87 years to win the World Series and 46 for a pennant.

Also, if you're waiting for the Twins to get worse, forget it. They lost players last year (your comments about the Twins are eerily reminiscent of last year's views) and still kicked the Sox' ass.

1917
11-18-2004, 12:23 PM
That was great and well said. Lets not make that your last post! I love this website but I use it as a venting room too as I'm sure many of the fellow posters do. Any Rumor is to be taken with a grain of salt. But it's fun and misery loves company!

Palehose13
11-18-2004, 12:25 PM
Listen, I know it's easy when you're 23 years old to say "be patient". The facts are that this team is going nowhere fast. There has been absolutely zero net on-field improvements to the White Sox since KW got here. Be patient for what, exactly? The fans of the White Sox have been waiting 87 years to win the World Series and 46 for a pennant.

Also, if you're waiting for the Twins to get worse, forget it. They lost players last year (your comments about the Twins are eerily reminiscent of last year's views) and still kicked the Sox' ass.
WU...I think a "Mr. Negativity" tag would be so appropriate at times. :wink:

mjharrison72
11-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Listen, I know it's easy when you're 23 years old to say "be patient". The facts are that this team is going nowhere fast. There has been absolutely zero net on-field improvements to the White Sox since KW got here. Be patient for what, exactly? The fans of the White Sox have been waiting 87 years to win the World Series and 46 for a pennant.

Also, if you're waiting for the Twins to get worse, forget it. They lost players last year (your comments about the Twins are eerily reminiscent of last year's views) and still kicked the Sox' ass.I think it's more of a patience in terms of the lineup getting solidified for next year. Based on the conversations going on here, which I would put in the category of RAMPANT speculation, there are a bunch of us spending inordinate amounts of time looking for the next hint of a signing, by teh Sox or anyone else. It really is a tense time, and I've never really cared as much as I do now... it's because I like the team we put on the field last year, I hope they retain the best parts of that team, fill some holes, and Ozzie has his head on straighter with a year of managerial experience behind him. I'm growing impatient with the Sox' lack of playoff appearances and victories, but I agree we need to let the postseason develop and trust Ozzie and the boys to work with that they got.

Rocky Soprano
11-18-2004, 12:33 PM
Awesome post! I think I feel a bit better after reading that. :gulp:

pinwheels3530
11-18-2004, 12:37 PM
I agree that they AL Central will definetly be more competitive next year....Cleveland and Detroit will be no push overs. The Sox need to get a more balanced team with starting pitching and bullpen help, plus a another solid 300 hitter with 30 HR's and 100 RBI's hmmmmm.....I wonder who fits that category.:whistle:

mweflen
11-18-2004, 12:54 PM
Chill out? "Wait and see?" Hah!

There are decades of resentment, bitterness, failure and the like built up. Sox fans by and large are incapable of taking it easy.

The Sox Fan's curse is double: We are cursed with caring, and cursed by management that seems by their actions (not their words, total worth:zero) not to care as much as we do. They are content with mediocrity, while for whatever reason the stubborn Sox fan base has not given up like fan bases in Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and the like.

Nonetheless, I applaud the moderate message of your post. It's just falling on ears deafened by years of abject baseball horror. :wink:

DMarte708
11-18-2004, 01:01 PM
I recall similar remarks last offseason. How did that turn out, again? (No one could have predicted Uribe's resurgence, so that example is useless) Why is everyone so willing to assure themselves Williams will sign a quality FA, or approve a blockbuster trade?

If I can't convince any of you to realize the true nature of the organization, then so be it. Obviously last offseason has been quickly forgotten. I rather complain and bitch then hold myself to false hopes of a glorious offseason. When when our prize acquisition this offseason is Shawn Chacon, don't reply: "Williams was smart not to overpay for players," "Our team is still one of the best in the division, or my favorite "If we're in contention in July he'll trade for the proper pieces."

I don't believe this positioning BS JR was spewing yesterday on the Score. He says Boras is not an option for the organization because contract negotiations drag out. Well JR, why wait? What's wrong with quickly signing a FA or trading for players? And please, no one tell me crap about waiting for the market to establish itself.



11/17/04 Phone conference between KW and JR:

:KW
"Jerry, you wouldn't believe how gullable our fans are. They're actually holding out hope we'll upgrade our club this offseaon. LOL. I'm positive no one will recall empty promises I made in October, concerning upgrades in pitching/defense/OBP."

:reinsy
"They've been critical of us these last few years, but I'm positive they'll show up to the ballpark with the addition of green seats and FUNdementals. I'm sure as hell not subtantially raising payroll. I'll just spew off nonsense about money having no relation to winning the division."

:KW
"If fans feel discouraged I can always try marketing Ozzie, again. Or possibly creating a landmark on the RF concourse where Borchard's HR landed."

NonetheLoaiza
11-18-2004, 01:23 PM
i personally like all the discussions and tension. just fans talking baseball, some more knowledgable than others, but thats whats fun about this board.

Terry21fg
11-18-2004, 01:27 PM
1st - I'm not saying let's be patient for the next 10 years, I'm saying it's been 6 days since the FA market has opened.

2nd - Kenny Williams is not trying to single handly bring down this organization, he is doing the best he can with the resources that are available to him. You can say that we had hopes of a major signing last year, but look at the unlucky situations that happened last year. With Maggs and Thomas hurt at the same time you are taking 200+ RBIs and 50+ HRs out of the lineup. If Ortiz and Manny were hurt for half the season, the Red Sox don't make the playoffs. You say Kenny hasn't done anything to improve this team...how about that nice young stud pitcher Freddy Garcia...have we forgotten about him? He also brought Colon to town (only for a year) but it was still a bold move and a solid effort to improve the team. Is it Kenny's fault that Borchard sucks....? Trust me, if the Sox didn't draft him, someone else would of and would have the same problems.

I realize I'm only 23 years old, but you can't compare/knock my passion about this team. I've lived through the white flag trade, I was at the Toronto series when they lost, I was there for Game 2 against Seattle in 2000. My family has been partial season ticket holders since 82. The reason I'm a reader and rarely a writer is because I hate the fact that no matter what you say on this board there will always be some a-hole ney-sayer who will try to embarass and contradict everything I say.

I have trust in Kenny Williams, I think he is doing whatever he can to improve this team. He is trying. If a major move is not made this off season it is not because he didn't want it to happen, it will be because another team with more resources was able to win out the negotiation.

Believe me, I want a World Series on the South Side as much as the next person, especially before the cubs!

CarlosMay'sThumb
11-18-2004, 02:40 PM
You say Kenny hasn't done anything to improve this team...how about that nice young stud pitcher Freddy Garcia...have we forgotten about him?
The trade for Garcia is a catastrophe waiting to happen. In any scenario in which the Sox develop a quality starting staff, Garcia is a #3. I'm sorry, but you simply can't trade a young talented catcher and a very high outfield prospect for 3 months of a #3 pitcher. The Sox were absolutely robbed in that deal.

Mickster
11-18-2004, 02:44 PM
The trade for Garcia is a catastrophe waiting to happen. In any scenario in which the Sox develop a quality starting staff, Garcia is a #3. I'm sorry, but you simply can't trade a young talented catcher and a very high outfield prospect for 3 months of a #3 pitcher. The Sox were absolutely robbed in that deal.
Actually, 3 years and 3 months of Garcia. I will respectfully disagree that he is a #3 pitcher because if you place him on almost any team, he's a #2 at worst, #1 on some.

Considering Percival just signed a 2 year $12 mil deal, Garcia would have fetched far more that $27M for 3 years. Book it.

anewman35
11-18-2004, 03:04 PM
I recall similar remarks last offseason. How did that turn out, again? (No one could have predicted Uribe's resurgence, so that example is useless) Why is everyone so willing to assure themselves Williams will sign a quality FA, or approve a blockbuster trade?
How would last season have turned out if our two best players hadn't been hurt half the season? Was that KW's fault? Was that JR's fault?

CarlosMay'sThumb
11-18-2004, 03:08 PM
Actually, 3 years and 3 months of Garcia. I will respectfully disagree that he is a #3 pitcher because if you place him on almost any team, he's a #2 at worst, #1 on some.

Considering Percival just signed a 2 year $12 mil deal, Garcia would have fetched far more that $27M for 3 years. Book it.
Actually, you're wrong. The trade had NOTHING to do with the additional 3 years. The Sox were promised nothing - so the trade was only for 3 months. In fact, looking at the way Garcia quickly signed with the Sox without even testing the free agent waters, it's very likely he would have signed during the off season without having to give up Olivo and Reed.

As for Garcia being a #1, it would have to be a terrible staff. Even on the Sox, most people agree that they don't have a #1, which makes Buerhle a #2. Garcia is a decided #3 on the great majority of pitching staffs in the Majors.

I'm not buying the comparison to a formerly elite closer.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:12 PM
How would last season have turned out if our two best players hadn't been hurt half the season? Was that KW's fault? Was that JR's fault?
Yes, as a matter of fact is is. When you do not have adequate replacements for those type of situations, that falls on the owner and the GM. It's called a deep bench, something this team did not have in 2004 and it cost them.

Blame falls on the twp top guys, sorry. Didn't the Red Sox lose Nomar? Didn't the Yankees lose Giambi? All teams have injuries, it's what you have to back them up that determines if you are a great team.

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 03:16 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact is is. When you do not have adequate replacements for those type of situations, that falls on the owner and the GM. It's called a deep bench, something this team did not have in 2004 and it cost them.

Blame falls on the twp top guys, sorry. Didn't the Red Sox lose Nomar? Didn't the Yankees lose Giambi? All teams have injuries, it's what you have to back them up that determines if you are a great team.

Yes, but both of those teams can afford to spend $10 million on a back-up player in case any of there stars go down. The Sox on the other hand can only afford to spend maybe 1-2 million.

I hate to tell you but you can't replace 2 30/.300/100 guys with a few million dollars...

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:21 PM
Yes, but both of those teams can afford to spend $10 million on a back-up player in case any of there stars go down. The Sox on the other hand can only afford to spend maybe 1-2 million.

I hate to tell you but you can't replace 2 30/.300/100 guys with a few million dollars...
I will disagree. I will look north and give you Hollandsworth from the Cubs. When Sosa went down, Hollandsworth stepped up and carried that team. He was signed for a meger 1M. He eventually went down as well, but he was more then an adequate replacement.

You can find guys for less then 10M a year. Heck, the Cubs had Grudzielanek and had Walker as insurance. Walker was not a big dollar signing at all. Grudzielanek went down and Walker stepped in. Im only using the Cubs as an example because those guys were cheap signings that played a big role for their team.

Flight #24
11-18-2004, 03:21 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact is is. When you do not have adequate replacements for those type of situations, that falls on the owner and the GM. It's called a deep bench, something this team did not have in 2004 and it cost them.

Blame falls on the twp top guys, sorry. Didn't the Red Sox lose Nomar? Didn't the Yankees lose Giambi? All teams have injuries, it's what you have to back them up that determines if you are a great team.Nice comparison to teams wth $120mil+payrolls. That's a good one. Yup, it's KWs fault that his team with a $70mil payroll didn't have the same depth that a team with a $120+ payroll did. The other example of the Cubs (with their $20mil+ higher payroll) is another excellent one.

Not to mention that even in your argument, the teams lost 1 player. Sox lose their best 2. IIRC, when Frank was playing and Maggs was not, they were still playing very well and in first.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:25 PM
Nice comparison to teams wth $120mil+payrolls. That's a good one. Yup, it's KWs fault that his team with a $70mil payroll didn't have the same depth that a team with a $120+ payroll did. The other example of the Cubs (with their $20mil+ higher payroll) is another excellent one.

Not to mention that even in your argument, the teams lost 1 player. Sox lose their best 2. IIRC, when Frank was playing and Maggs was not, they were still playing very well and in first.
Don't give me the 20M dollar higher payroll BS. The players I mentioned were signed for peanuts. Walker and Hollandsworth were cheap signings. Furthemore, this IS CHICAGO. It might be time for JR to start acting like it, don't you think?

Mickster
11-18-2004, 03:27 PM
Actually, you're wrong. The trade had NOTHING to do with the additional 3 years. The Sox were promised nothing - so the trade was only for 3 months. In fact, looking at the way Garcia quickly signed with the Sox without even testing the free agent waters, it's very likely he would have signed during the off season without having to give up Olivo and Reed.

As for Garcia being a #1, it would have to be a terrible staff. Even on the Sox, most people agree that they don't have a #1, which makes Buerhle a #2. Garcia is a decided #3 on the great majority of pitching staffs in the Majors.

I'm not buying the comparison to a formerly elite closer.
The trade had nothing to do with the 3 years???? Part of the deal with trading for Freddy was the ability to negotiate an extension before he would have the opportunity to test the waters...

You claim that the sox were promised nothing and acknowledge that he quickly signed without testing free-agency. How certain are you that nothing was discussed or worked out with Freddy prior to the trade?

Garcia (this horrible #3 pitcher) happened to be in the top 30 in all of MLB pitchers in Wins and ERA, in the top 20 in all of MLB in Innings pitched, Strikeouts, and Strikeouts/9 innings.

Assuming you are correct that Garcia is a #3 pitcher at best, that would mean that there are at least 60 pitchers (a #1 and a #2 for each MLB team) with better statistics than him. Your assumptions don't hold water, my friend.

Not buying the comparison to a former elite closer who has a recent history of injuries? How about comparing him to Pavano who has done less in his career than Freddie? Are you even attempting to say that the Sox would have been able to sign him to $27M/3Yr. contract this off-season had they not traded for him and signed him to an extension?

Slow Mike
11-18-2004, 03:32 PM
Actually, you're wrong. The trade had NOTHING to do with the additional 3 years. The Sox were promised nothing - so the trade was only for 3 months. In fact, looking at the way Garcia quickly signed with the Sox without even testing the free agent waters, it's very likely he would have signed during the off season without having to give up Olivo and Reed.

As for Garcia being a #1, it would have to be a terrible staff. Even on the Sox, most people agree that they don't have a #1, which makes Buerhle a #2. Garcia is a decided #3 on the great majority of pitching staffs in the Majors.

I'm not buying the comparison to a formerly elite closer.
The trade was a gamble. Sometimes you win them, and sometimes you lose them. With no guarantee that Garcia would resign, the Sox took their chances. And then, fortunately, Garcia resigned with him. The trade was a necessity at the time because the WHite Sox were trying to make the playoffs (while they still had Maggs and Frank), and they needed a top-flight pitcher. KW made the right move. IT is not his fault Frank and Maggs got hurt and killed their chance for the playoffs.

As for Olivo, his average hovers around 240. So take that for what its worth. GRanted he has a great arm, but how successful was he at throwing out runners last year? Not very. There is no guarantee he will improve. And for Reed, remember what he is: HES A PROSPECT. A prospect and nothing else. He has proven absolutely nothing except for success at the minor leagues. But who cares? Success in the minors guarantees absolutely nothing. Maybe he'll be a great player, maybe he won't. But the point is that getting Garcia last year was the right move at the time. If Olivo and Reed become great, thats fine because we got a great player in return. If they suck, then it just makes us look better. THe trade was a success. Bottom line.

Flight #24
11-18-2004, 03:33 PM
Don't give me the 20M dollar higher payroll BS. The players I mentioned were signed for peanuts. Walker and Hollandsworth were cheap signings. Furthemore, this IS CHICAGO. It might be time for JR to start acting like it, don't you think?
It goes directly to the overall strength of the team. The $90+mil payroll lets you have guys like Walker/Ramirez/Clement/Maddux rather than Harris/Crede/Shoney/ELo. That plays directly into the teams ability to plug in average guys and maintain.

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 03:38 PM
Don't give me the 20M dollar higher payroll BS. The players I mentioned were signed for peanuts. Walker and Hollandsworth were cheap signings.

Those two made 3.25 million combined last year. That may seem cheap but that's more than the entire WS bench!

The Sox didn't have a single bench player that made more than $900,000. Timo was the highest with 850,000. That $20 million difference in payroll makes a BIG difference.

Furthemore, this IS CHICAGO. It might be time for JR to start acting like it, don't you think?

Well, yes but that's a different discussion.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 03:44 PM
Those two made 3.25 million combined last year. That may seem cheap but that's more than the entire WS bench!
.
That statement right there tells you what is wrong with this team. 3.25M for two pretty good players, yet those salaries are out of the Sox league.

anewman35
11-18-2004, 03:56 PM
That statement right there tells you what is wrong with this team. 3.25M for two pretty good players, yet those salaries are out of the Sox league.
I just LOVE how people throw around money figures like this. $3.25 million is more than 99.9999 percent of people will ever have, and yet you act like it's nothing. The money has to COME FROM SOMEWHERE, you know? We're not talking about spending money on starters, you're talking about spending large amounts of money bench players - if a team can afford that, great, but if they can't, shouldn't they spend their money on, you know, people actually projected as starters?

surfdudes
11-18-2004, 04:01 PM
That statement right there tells you what is wrong with this team. 3.25M for two pretty good players, yet those salaries are out of the Sox league.
and 2 Million and 1 year kept O. Visquel from signing.......

and whether Freddie Garcia is at best a #2 or #3 starter is not relevant to me while I get that gnawing feeling in my stomach thinking about going into next year doing the "I think the Churros guy is throwing today" fifth starter lottery that I so enjoyed watching last season....

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 04:02 PM
I just LOVE how people throw around money figures like this. $3.25 million is more than 99.9999 percent of people will ever have, and yet you act like it's nothing. The money has to COME FROM SOMEWHERE, you know? We're not talking about spending money on starters, you're talking about spending large amounts of money bench players - if a team can afford that, great, but if they can't, shouldn't they spend their money on, you know, people actually projected as starters?

To those .00001% it really isn't that much money. I'm sure it's a drop in the bucket to the Cubune, King George, etc...

It SHOULDN'T be that much money to JR either considering he has a "business" that is capable of generating much, MUCH more than that.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 04:05 PM
I just LOVE how people throw around money figures like this. $3.25 million is more than 99.9999 percent of people will ever have, and yet you act like it's nothing. The money has to COME FROM SOMEWHERE, you know? We're not talking about spending money on starters, you're talking about spending large amounts of money bench players - if a team can afford that, great, but if they can't, shouldn't they spend their money on, you know, people actually projected as starters?
You said that it was not Williams or Reinsdorf's fault for having Magglio and Frank go down. I said it is. I gave you examples of how big market teams operate and you dismiss it as if this is po-dunk Idaho.

Baby Fisk
11-18-2004, 04:12 PM
You said that it was not Williams or Reinsdorf's fault for having Magglio and Frank go down. I said it is.
:?: Huh? Can you explain the science behind that statement?

Iwritecode
11-18-2004, 04:13 PM
You said that it was not Williams or Reinsdorf's fault for having Magglio and Frank go down. I said it is. I gave you examples of how big market teams operate and you dismiss it as if this is po-dunk Idaho.

The Sox would have had to have Vlad and Manny sitting on the bench to replace Frank and Maggs. I don't even think the Yankees could/would do that.

The simple point is that Frank and Maggs both went down and it was nearly impossible to replace that production. You can't fault either JR or KW for that.

Justafan
11-18-2004, 04:15 PM
:?: Huh? Can you explain the science behind that statement?
They didn't have adequate replacements to keep them in contention. You can never replace those two, but you can get players who can step in and win games for you.

Hangar18
11-18-2004, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=Terry21fg]You say Kenny hasn't done anything to improve this team...how about that nice young stud pitcher Freddy Garcia...have we forgotten about him?

I The reason I'm a reader and rarely a writer is because I hate the fact that no matter what you say on this board there will always be some a-hole ney-sayer who will try to embarass and contradict everything I say.

QUOTE]

Welcome aboard, and Please Dont Worry about what people here tell you or
how to feel, SOX FANS are independent thinkers, unlike the Sheep up
north. Post more. Problem with getting a Garcia was we couldve gotten
someone just like him thru FA, without losing key players ......which the
sox did.

Baby Fisk
11-18-2004, 04:23 PM
They didn't have adequate replacements to keep them in contention. You can never replace those two, but you can get players who can step in and win games for you.Thanks. I read your post too literally, ie.: "KW and JR caused the injuries to Frank & Maggs." Never mind! :nuts:

anewman35
11-18-2004, 04:47 PM
Welcome aboard, and Please Dont Worry about what people here tell you or
how to feel, SOX FANS are independent thinkers, unlike the Sheep up
north. Post more. Problem with getting a Garcia was we couldve gotten
someone just like him thru FA, without losing key players ......which the
sox did.
People last year were desperate for a 5th starter at the time. KW got Garcia to fix the problem. It's not KW's fault that various things went wrong around the same time to make it not work - we just as easilly could have had Frank, Maggs and Schoenweis healthy and made the playoffs.

anewman35
11-18-2004, 04:49 PM
Thanks. I read your post too literally, ie.: "KW and JR caused the injuries to Frank & Maggs." Never mind! :nuts:
It totally is their fault! If they had a better training staff and a better second baseman (who wouldn't have run into Maggs), it wouldn't have been an issue. White Sox Baseball - Cheap and Stupid!

Hangar18
11-18-2004, 05:08 PM
I just LOVE how people throw around money figures like this. $3.25 million is more than 99.9999 percent of people will ever have, and yet you act like it's nothing. The money has to COME FROM SOMEWHERE, you know? We're not talking about spending money on starters, you're talking about spending large amounts of money bench players - if a team can afford that, great, but if they can't, shouldn't they spend their money on, you know, people actually projected as starters?

:reinsy " PREACH ON BROTHER ANEWMAN35! Im Broke!"