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View Full Version : Scott Boras to be on Mariotti's show in 5 minutes.


Justafan
11-17-2004, 11:54 AM
This will be must hear radio. I'll recap as best I can.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 11:55 AM
www.am1000.com (http://www.am1000.com) for the live feed.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 11:56 AM
Thanks, Mickster.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 11:57 AM
Thanks, Mickster.
:wink:

Irishsox1
11-17-2004, 12:14 PM
Blowing in the wind Jay and Scott Boras...talk about A-Hole radio.

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 12:17 PM
Interesting point from Boras: "All teams seriously interested in signing Magglio to a contract will be able to evaluate him in any way". That was in response to the medical exam question. My bet: He'll take it down to 1 or 2 teams, then Maggs will sign an incentive deal or something with an option as he 'fesses up that he might not be 100% to start the year.

Another interesting point is that Marriotti proved his ignorance by discussing why the Sox won't be at the Magglio "workout", ignoring the fact that unless they offer him arb, they CAN'T resign him until May. And since he won't release any medical records until then, they'd basically have to take a huge risk on putting $11mil in OlNo2's toilet graphic.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 12:18 PM
Boras took the high road with regards to Williams comments. He said that he has not heard that from Williams himself, but said that GM's are given budgets and they have to follow them.

He said he has no problems with JR or KW personally. He said he has a few clients interested in the Sox(did not name them). Says Chicago is a great place to play and we will see what the Sox have to offer(cough cough not enough).

Talked about Ordonez and said that he is healthy and the operation he had was "pedestrian". Translation=Get ready for Magglio to shove it up anyone's ass who thinks otherwise. Oh man, did the Sox drop the ball here(my opinion) and they will regret this move.

Says Beltran is interested in the Cubs and loves the city of Chicago. He said the Cubs are a MAJOR MARKET TEAM. I took this as a DIRECT slap at the mid market Sox. No doubt in my mind that is why he said it. He said the Cubs are always a player with him for the big market players.

That is pretty much it.

Jjav829
11-17-2004, 12:30 PM
FWIW, I heard a clip of Boras on Chicago Tribune Live (The CSN show at 5:30). He mentioned that he has talked to the Sox about some of his players and that they did find one player who seemed to be a match, but of course he didn't specify who.

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 12:34 PM
FWIW, I heard a clip of Boras on Chicago Tribune Live (The CSN show at 5:30). He mentioned that he has talked to the Sox about some of his players and that they did find one player who seemed to be a match, but of course he didn't specify who.
He also mentioned that he has "high profile players with interest in the White Sox".

As expected, Jay took the easy way out, preferring to focus his questions on ways to slam the Sox instead of asking Boras things like "Why haven't you provided the records from Maggs last surgery to the Sox? Why did Maggs go to Austria of all places for what you call minor surgery?"

Boras did mention that the Sox as Maggs employer until he filed for FA have all of his records to that point, something which directly contradicts KW's comments after the Austria surgery.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 12:38 PM
He also mentioned that he has "high profile players with interest in the White Sox".

As expected, Jay took the easy way out, preferring to focus his questions on ways to slam the Sox instead of asking Boras things like "Why haven't you provided the records from Maggs last surgery to the Sox? Why did Maggs go to Austria of all places for what you call minor surgery?"

Boras did mention that the Sox as Maggs employer until he filed for FA have all of his records to that point, something which directly contradicts KW's comments after the Austria surgery.
Excellent points and I was hoping to hear some of those questions also.

But as usual, White Sox management is just a bunch of evil men who live to make life miserable for Sox fans. There is absolutely no reason for KW to not want to deal with Boras other than he has a lot of premium palyers...and we wouldn't want that now, would we? The Sox are just too damn cheap and JR is secretly attempting to put in action his master plan where the players pay him to have the honor of being on the Chicago White Sox.

Kogs35
11-17-2004, 12:40 PM
He also mentioned that he has "high profile players with interest in the White Sox".

As expected, Jay took the easy way out, preferring to focus his questions on ways to slam the Sox instead of asking Boras things like "Why haven't you provided the records from Maggs last surgery to the Sox? Why did Maggs go to Austria of all places for what you call minor surgery?"

Boras did mention that the Sox as Maggs employer until he filed for FA have all of his records to that point, something which directly contradicts KW's comments after the Austria surgery.
i would belive kw over boras anyday of the week. i emailed silvy to ask why the sox couldnt look at the knee at the end of october but he didn't read it in time.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 12:48 PM
Something else that Boras said that I find interesting...IIRC, he basically said that Magglio does not have a rare condition and had two torn minisucus (sp?) and that was why a second surgery was needed..to repair the second one. Doe this mean Magglio never had bone edema? :?:

I believe KW over SB anyday...

Justafan
11-17-2004, 12:50 PM
I honestly hope Magglio is healthy and makes JR pay for his mistreatment of him. We are talking about the best RF in Sox history being discarded like he was a bench player.

Injury or no injury, the Sox low-balled Magglio and it WILL come back to haunt them. Mark it down!

samram
11-17-2004, 12:56 PM
I honestly hope Magglio is healthy and makes JR pay for his mistreatment of him. We are talking about the best RF in Sox history being discarded like he was a bench player.

Injury or no injury, the Sox low-balled Magglio and it WILL come back to haunt them. Mark it down!
Yeah, throwing $14 million at a player who could be damaged goods is solid baseball management. Screw due dilligence, just take his agent's word for it.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:01 PM
Yeah, throwing $14 million at a player who could be damaged goods is solid baseball management. Screw due dilligence, just take his agent's word for it.
Bulldung! I am going to call each and everyone of you Magglio bashers out and make you look silly. This was the guy the Sox TRIED TO TRADE for Nomar last year because they DID NOT WANT to lose him to F/A because they KNEW they would NEVER meet his asking price. This was WELL BEFORE he injured himself.

Care to keep sticking up for JR now?

FightingBillini
11-17-2004, 01:05 PM
I honestly hope Magglio is healthy and makes JR pay for his mistreatment of him. We are talking about the best RF in Sox history being discarded like he was a bench player.

Injury or no injury, the Sox low-balled Magglio and it WILL come back to haunt them. Mark it down!There was no lowball offer. As that greedy SOB will learn, he is no Vlad Guerrero. He wanted more money than Vlad. Magglio is not now, and will never be an MVP, even if he were healthy. This contract wont be near the one he turned down from the Sox. If you think they treated him like ****, you don't understand the situation. Magglio is the one trying to deceive and connive the Sox into offering arbitration. I don't want him back. I want KW to go get an equivalent outfielder, but I don't want Maggilio. As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:05 PM
Bulldung! I am going to call each and everyone of you Magglio bashers out and make you look silly. This was the guy the Sox TRIED TO TRADE for Nomar last year because they DID NOT WANT to lose him to F/A because they KNEW they would NEVER meet his asking price. This was WELL BEFORE he injured himself.

Care to keep sticking up for JR now?
And you know this how? Show me the proof that this was the reason that the Sox attempted to trade Maggs, please.

Could it be that the sox did not want to throw away $15M for a corner outfielder and would have rather spend the $$ on (at that point in time) a premier SS with about as good a bat as Maggs?

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:08 PM
As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.
Woah. :tsk:

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:09 PM
And you know this how? Show me the proof that this was the reason that the Sox attempted to trade Maggs, please.

Could it be that the sox did not want to throw away $15M for a corner outfielder and would have rather spend the $$ on (at that point in time) a premier SS with about as good a bat as Maggs?He has been one of the best RF in the game for years and the best one this organization has ever had. You pay your stars, not trade contracts because you are too damn cheap to pony up the dough to keep them. I can't believe you guys. Did you see how pathetic this team was without him?

Oh, I forgot. Ross Gload played so well in his place, what was I thinking?

Jjav829
11-17-2004, 01:09 PM
There was no lowball offer. As that greedy SOB will learn, he is no Vlad Guerrero. He wanted more money than Vlad. Magglio is not now, and will never be an MVP, even if he were healthy. This contract wont be near the one he turned down from the Sox. If you think they treated him like ****, you don't understand the situation. Magglio is the one trying to deceive and connive the Sox into offering arbitration. I don't want him back. I want KW to go get an equivalent outfielder, but I don't want Maggilio. As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.
I'm going to leave this here as an example, but in the future, keep this crap off the boards. It's pointless, classless, and has no place here. You wanna think like an idiot, fine, but don't express it on these boards.

samram
11-17-2004, 01:10 PM
Bulldung! I am going to call each and everyone of you Magglio bashers out and make you look silly. This was the guy the Sox TRIED TO TRADE for Nomar last year because they DID NOT WANT to lose him to F/A because they KNEW they would NEVER meet his asking price. This was WELL BEFORE he injured himself.

Care to keep sticking up for JR now?
First of all, all of your accusations are speculation. Second, I'm not sticking up for JR. I'm saying I can't blame JR for not taking an agent's word for his player's health status after the player missed two thirds of a season with an injury and then flew thousands of miles to have a second surgery performed in the injured area.

If they had signed Maggs last year, then he had gotten injured and couldn't play as well or at all, you probably would have criticized management for being stuck with a bad contract.

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 01:11 PM
Bulldung! I am going to call each and everyone of you Magglio bashers out and make you look silly. This was the guy the Sox TRIED TO TRADE for Nomar last year because they DID NOT WANT to lose him to F/A because they KNEW they would NEVER meet his asking price. This was WELL BEFORE he injured himself.

Care to keep sticking up for JR now?
This always cracks me up. People complain up & down about how the team as structured around the power hitters was doomed to fail and needed to be rebuilt around pitching, better D, more OBP, etc. Yet KW's then slammed for trying to do that in the offseason. All accounts of the trade say that had they been able to trade Maggs, they would have either flipped Nomar for pitching or they would have traded Valentin for Garcia.

Maggs+Valentin or Nomar+Williamson+Garcia? Maggs or Odalis Perez+1-2 stud pitching prospects+Guillermo Mota+Williamson?

You can argue it either way, but it's at least close in terms of value to the team.

But yeah, go ahead and keep thinking that since the Sox didn't acquiesce and write Maggs a blank check that they were dissing him.

southsider17
11-17-2004, 01:12 PM
He has been one of the best RF in the game for years and the best one this organization has ever had. You pay your stars, not trade contracts because you are too damn cheap to pony up the dough to keep them. I can't believe you guys. Did you see how pathetic this team was without him?

Oh, I forgot. Ross Gload played so well in his place, what was I thinking?
The Twins do it every year ...... and beat our ass as well.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:12 PM
I can't believe you guys. Did you see how pathetic this team was without him?
I saw how pathetic this team was without Thomas in the lineup. If I recall correctly, the Sox were still in 1st with Maggs out of the lineup and Frank in.

*Not that I am stating that we don't need a player of Magg's capabilities but I am certain that the Maggs lovers are overstating his worth on this team. I am certain that we could find a player with slightly less than Maggs numbers for 1/2 the price....

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:13 PM
First of all, all of your accusations are speculation.

No, it is actually thinking ahead and using common sense. Oh, I forgot. The Sox always pay their stars and certainly they were just trying to move Ordonez because they felt they could resign Nomar for cheap.

FightingBillini
11-17-2004, 01:14 PM
I'm going to leave this here as an example, but in the future, keep this crap off the boards. It's pointless, classless, and has no place here. You wanna think like an idiot, fine, but don't express it on these boards.
It was a joke, I probably should have put in it in teal. Instead I will using my Magglio lifesize cardboard stand up as a dart board.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:15 PM
No, it is actually thinking ahead and using common sense. Oh, I forgot. The Sox always pay their stars and certainly they were just trying to move Ordonez because they felt they could resign Nomar for cheap.
:?:

SOXSINCE'70
11-17-2004, 01:15 PM
As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.
:kukoo: :tsk:

True Sox fans,at least the ones the Chairman of the bored
didn't scare off with his pissant 65 mill payroll yet,know that
throwing objects on the field and charging players and/or
coaches is a bush league tactic.Leave that crap to the idiots
at The Piss Shrine.:angry: :angry:

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:17 PM
I saw how pathetic this team was without Thomas in the lineup. If I recall correctly, the Sox were still in 1st with Maggs out of the lineup and Frank in.

*Not that I am stating that we don't need a player of Magg's capabilities but I am certain that the Maggs lovers are overstating his worth on this team. I am certain that we could find a player with slightly less than Maggs numbers for 1/2 the price....
Look at his numbers and tell me we are overstating his worth.

NonetheLoaiza
11-17-2004, 01:17 PM
you know...our offense wasnt all THAT bad without frank and maggs out. did it suffer? yes...but IIRC, we had plenty of games where we scored enough runs, but it was our bullpen and pitching that lost us those games. maggs being gone is not the end of the world, even if he returns to his pre2004 numbers.

if some other team wants to give him 14 million unproven dollars, my hats are off to them. we operate on a strict budget, and id be more mad if we wasted that money with maggs being on the shelf for 100 games.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:19 PM
Look at his numbers and tell me we are overstating his worth.You compare Maggs with the 2004 MVP Guerrero and tell me we are not overstating his worth. You're right. I am wrong. Maggs deserves MORE!

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:19 PM
As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.

I don't recall who the **** I schooled on this last time, but **** like this really needs to be held in check. You're threatening to go to the park and throw batteries at a player on the field? That doesn't make you cool. It makes you an idiot. This isn't New York. Get a life, dude.

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:21 PM
It was a joke, I probably should have put in it in teal. Instead I will using my Magglio lifesize cardboard stand up as a dart board.

Didn't seem like a joke. Nice back-pedal. Quit posting like a moron.

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 01:28 PM
He has been one of the best RF in the game for years and the best one this organization has ever had.
I'd like you to support this claim. Especially the Best this organization ever had. Not being rude, just would like to see if you are indeed correct.

jabrch
11-17-2004, 01:29 PM
There was no lowball offer. As that greedy SOB will learn, he is no Vlad Guerrero. He wanted more money than Vlad. Magglio is not now, and will never be an MVP, even if he were healthy. This contract wont be near the one he turned down from the Sox. If you think they treated him like ****, you don't understand the situation. Magglio is the one trying to deceive and connive the Sox into offering arbitration. I don't want him back. I want KW to go get an equivalent outfielder, but I don't want Maggilio.
You are sooooo right....


As someone else on here suggested, I will go to Cosco to pick up some of their extra hard and extra cheap batteries next time Maggs plays in Chicago.

...and an ahole at the same time!

CarlosMay'sThumb
11-17-2004, 01:31 PM
This always cracks me up. People complain up & down about how the team as structured around the power hitters was doomed to fail and needed to be rebuilt around pitching, better D, more OBP, etc. Yet KW's then slammed for trying to do that in the offseason.
I think the "power hitters" that had "doomed" the team were big, slow guys like Thomas, Konerko and Crede - not Ordonez. I seriously doubt that anybody would be opposed to building a team around a healthy Ordonez.

And you're giving KW too much credit if you believe he is "trying" to do anything. He's been forced to go in another direction because Ordonez is damaged goods. There has been absolutely no direction by the GM since he arrived. He's totally inconsistent (young vs veterans, pitching vs hitting, etc)

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:36 PM
I'd like you to support this claim. Especially the Best this organization ever had. Not being rude, just would like to see if you are indeed correct.

Especially since a guy named Harold Baines played pretty good ball out there for many years.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:37 PM
I'd like you to support this claim. Especially the Best this organization ever had. Not being rude, just would like to see if you are indeed correct.Before his injury, the past 5 years Ordonez AVERAGED 32 HR and 118 RBI, while hitting well over .300 every year. Now, what else do you need? Vlad and Sosa were better, but Ordonez is right there.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 01:38 PM
Someone has a pretty distorted view of events. *cough* justafan *cough

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:39 PM
Someone has a pretty distorted view of events. *cough* justafan *cough
Ok, show me some facts, know it all.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:42 PM
You Ordonez bashers are correct. He was worthless to the Sox and never held his weight. I'm glad the Sox have the likes of Borchard waiting in the wings, especially after his great stint in the Mexican league.

Mickster
11-17-2004, 01:43 PM
You Ordonez bashers are correct. He was worthless to the Sox and never held his weight. I'm glad the Sox have the likes of Borchard waiting in the wings, especially after his great stint in the Mexican league.
Good comeback. :thumbsup:

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 01:43 PM
Especially since a guy named Harold Baines played pretty good ball out there for many years.Amen to that. Also, I believe Joe who wears no shoes played a little RF too. I am in no way saying Maggs isn't great, but I don't think he is THE best RF in the 100 years plus of Sox Baseball.
Not only that, Did you just say besides SOSA!!!!!!!!!! Oh no....:dtroll:

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:45 PM
You Ordonez bashers are correct. He was worthless to the Sox and never held his weight. I'm glad the Sox have the likes of Borchard waiting in the wings, especially after his great stint in the Mexican league.

Nobody said he was worthless. Don't tilt the argument 180 degrees here. Ordonez was certainly helpful to the team and an outstanding player. He's certainly, at this point, not worth the $60 million/5 year contract that was reportedly offered to him in the summer of 2004. It can be debated he'll never be worth that again. It can be debated he was never worth that. Nobody is debating that he wasn't a good player for us.

Hangar18
11-17-2004, 01:45 PM
The Sox are just too damn cheap and JR is secretly attempting to put in action his master plan where the players pay him to have the honor of being on the Chicago White Sox.


:reinsy " I like the way you think Kid ......... "

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:46 PM
Good comeback. :thumbsup:

LOL!!!!!!!!!

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:46 PM
Amen to that. Also, I believe Joe who wears no shoes played a little RF too. I am in no way saying Maggs isn't great, but I don't think he is THE best RF in the game. Not only that, Did you just say besides SOSA!!!!!!!!!! Oh no....:dtroll:
I'm talking just numbers over 5 years. Not the overall game, which worthless Ordonez was the better player.

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 01:47 PM
I'm talking just numbers over 5 years. Not the overall game, which worthless Ordonez was the better player.
You said he was the best the sox have ever had in RF. Heady Charge buddy.

Brian26
11-17-2004, 01:48 PM
You said he was the best the sox have ever had in RF. Heady Charge buddy.

Actually he just said that Mags was better than Claudell Washington....over 5 years.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:49 PM
You said he was the best the sox have ever had in RF. Heady Charge buddy.
Ok, well, IMO he was better then Harold. I'm sure when Orodnez is doing his thing for another team you will eat the crow

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:50 PM
Actually he just said that Mags was better than Claudell Washington....over 5 years.
Do you know how good Magglio was for this team? Do you even have a frikin concept of how good he was? Now that he is not coming back, open season on Magglio.

Can you take KW'S job?

Wealz
11-17-2004, 01:51 PM
Ok, well, IMO he was better then Harold. I'm sure when Orodnez is doing his thing for another team you will eat the crow
How bad is Ordonez' injury?

Fungo
11-17-2004, 01:51 PM
Ok, well, IMO he was better then Harold. I'm sure when Orodnez is doing his thing for another team you will eat the crow
Mr. Boras, is that you?

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 01:51 PM
And you're giving KW too much credit if you believe he is "trying" to do anything. He's been forced to go in another direction because Ordonez is damaged goods. There has been absolutely no direction by the GM since he arrived. He's totally inconsistent (young vs veterans, pitching vs hitting, etc)
Nice try. The restructuring in question was attempted last offseason, i.e. before Maggs injury. When the ARod deal fell through and there wasn't another option to deal Maggs and provide the same value in return, you're right - KW shifted gears. Dumbass - everyone knows that if you have a plan, you stick to it regardless of changing circumstances!

Justafan
11-17-2004, 01:53 PM
Fine, it's obvious I have entered "we hate Magglioville". That is fine, remember him as a overrated player if you want. That said, when he is putting up .310 32/115 a year, don't cry a tear.

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 01:53 PM
Ok, well, IMO he was better then Harold. I'm sure when Orodnez is doing his thing for another team you will eat the crow
Crow? Are you kidding, when did I say anything about him not being good for another team? I am just saying he wasn't and probably won't be the best RF in Sox History. You sir, need to pick your battles, because 1. You make wild claims, 2. You argue against yourself and 3. You just took a backhanded swipe at HAAAAAAAAA-----ROOOOOLLLLLLDDD

thepaulbowski
11-17-2004, 01:55 PM
Before his injury, the past 5 years Ordonez AVERAGED 32 HR and 118 RBI, while hitting well over .300 every year. Now, what else do you need? Vlad and Sosa were better, but Ordonez is right there.

Read your own post, you answered your own question.

"Before his injury"

The offer the Sox had on the table "Before his injury" is more than he will probably get right now.

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 01:55 PM
Fine, it's obvious I have entered "we hate Magglioville". That is fine, remember him as a overrated player if you want. That said, when he is putting up .310 32/115 a year, don't cry a tear.
I love Magglio. I just don't think he is the best RF out there. Man are you barking up the wrong tree.

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 01:58 PM
Fine, it's obvious I have entered "we hate Magglioville". That is fine, remember him as a overrated player if you want. That said, when he is putting up .310 32/115 a year, don't cry a tear.
What color is the sky in the world of "Maggs isn't worth 5yrs-$70mil = I hate Maggs"?

Apparently you'd rather have Maggs than say JD Drew AND an SP somwhere between Jon Lieber & Carl Pavano (depending on where salaries end up at). And anyone who would prefer otherwise is in "we hate Magglioville".
:whatever:

kittle42
11-17-2004, 01:59 PM
Apparently you'd rather have Maggs than say JD Drew AND an SP somwhere between Jon Lieber & Carl Pavano (depending on where salaries end up at). And anyone who would prefer otherwise is in "we hate Magglioville".

I'd rather have the latter. Unfortunately, we won't be seeing any of them in a Sox uniform.

thepaulbowski
11-17-2004, 01:59 PM
Fine, it's obvious I have entered "we hate Magglioville". That is fine, remember him as a overrated player if you want. That said, when he is putting up .310 32/115 a year, don't cry a tear.
You just don't get it, do you. Does one buy a used car without test driving it? I sure don't. In this case the used car (Magglio) had some serious work done to it. But if the person (Sox) that wants to purchase that used car (Magglio) is not allowed to look at it before making an offer for it, what are they to do? I would find another car, it is not worth risk.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 02:02 PM
What color is the sky in the world of "Maggs isn't worth 5yrs-$70mil = I hate Maggs"?

Apparently you'd rather have Maggs than say JD Drew AND an SP somwhere between Jon Lieber & Carl Pavano (depending on where salaries end up at). And anyone who would prefer otherwise is in "we hate Magglioville".
:whatever:

I forgot about Drew. His heath has never been a problem either.. Yes, sign him to a 5/70 deal right away.

fquaye149
11-17-2004, 02:04 PM
Fine, it's obvious I have entered "we hate Magglioville". That is fine, remember him as a overrated player if you want. That said, when he is putting up .310 32/115 a year, don't cry a tear.
what in the ****? are we in bizarro world.

It seems like you are in fact justafan in the cubs vein if you think not being willing to pay more than 4 years 70 million (reported offer) for an average defender and admittedly excellent hitting right-fielder is hating magglio.

we can hem and haw here and i think all of us are sad to see magglio go, but the fact of the matter is we can't afford to commit 1/5 of our payroll (and that's if we up payroll) to a player who is probably not the best hitter on our squad. Even if we had a 90 million dollar payroll, 1/6 of our payroll for a player who will never ever ever ever put up mvp type numbers, in fact may never play again is steep.

If we could get him for 10 million a year, i'd say do it in a heartbeat. but we can't. he turned down somewhere between 13-15 million in a year because he wanted to test free agent waters. More power to him...he wants the big bucks...can't really fault him for it and i hope he ever makes it onto the field again to play baseball (though I doubt he will.) but don't blame kenny because magglio wants to see if he can get more money than he's worth

AND DON'T SAY KENNY TREATED HIM BADLY.

AND DON'T YOU DARE BLAME THESE FANS ON THIS BOARD FOR BEING IGNORANT OR ANTI MAGGLIO BECAUSE THEY SEE THINGS MORE RATIONALLY THAN YOU DO. that is weak.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 02:05 PM
Ok, show me some facts, know it all.

I agree with you, I think Magglio has been one of the best OFer's in Sox history. However I disagree with your view of how Magglio was treated. My first problem is that you claim that the white sox low-balled Magglio. I think they offered a very fair (maybe even more than fair) contract. Magglio claimed that he wanted to stay with the Sox. His actions prove otherwise. Your thoughts about the almost trade are ridiculous, IMO. Flight #24 gave you a great reponse on page 2.

Justafan
11-17-2004, 02:09 PM
what in the ****? are we in bizarro world.

It seems like you are in fact justafan in the cubs vein if you think not being willing to pay more than 4 years 70 million (reported offer) for an average defender and admittedly excellent hitting right-fielder is hating magglio.

we can hem and haw here and i think all of us are sad to see magglio go, but the fact of the matter is we can't afford to commit 1/5 of our payroll (and that's if we up payroll) to a player who is probably not the best hitter on our squad. Even if we had a 90 million dollar payroll, 1/6 of our payroll for a player who will never ever ever ever put up mvp type numbers, in fact may never play again is steep.

If we could get him for 10 million a year, i'd say do it in a heartbeat. but we can't. he turned down somewhere between 13-15 million in a year because he wanted to test free agent waters. More power to him...he wants the big bucks...can't really fault him for it and i hope he ever makes it onto the field again to play baseball (though I doubt he will.) but don't blame kenny because magglio wants to see if he can get more money than he's worth

AND DON'T SAY KENNY TREATED HIM BADLY.

AND DON'T YOU DARE BLAME THESE FANS ON THIS BOARD FOR BEING IGNORANT OR ANTI MAGGLIO BECAUSE THEY SEE THINGS MORE RATIONALLY THAN YOU DO. that is weak.

You doubt he will? I would be willing to place a gentlemans bet on that. He is going to put on a show at the winter meetings to prove it. Hey, sorry if I feel Ordonez is going to be fine and worthy of a nice deal. He should have ended up with the Sox, period!

Justafan
11-17-2004, 02:13 PM
I agree with you, I think Magglio has been one of the best OFer's in Sox history. However I disagree with your view of how Magglio was treated. My first problem is that you claim that the white sox low-balled Magglio. I think they offered a very fair (maybe even more than fair) contract. Magglio claimed that he wanted to stay with the Sox. His actions prove otherwise. Your thoughts about the almost trade are ridiculous, IMO. Flight #24 gave you a great reponse on page 2.
They offered him, IIRC, a backloaded deal when he had proven he was worth a GUARANTEED deal. This was before he got hurt. That obviously ticked him off and the Sox tried to trade him. That is how I saw it.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 02:13 PM
Anti-Magglio? Hardly. I'm a little bitter that he pretended to want to stay and then turned down the offer. Then came the injury...Borass claims that it is nothing out of the ordinary, but I have read/heard other reports that he has a very rare condition and no one knows how he will recover. I would be upset if the White Sox decided to gamble and give him a big contract only to have him be half the player (or less) that he was. However, we don't know...he could return to form...is it worth the risk?

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 02:15 PM
They offered him, IIRC, a backloaded deal when he had proven he was worth a GUARANTEED deal. This was before he got hurt. That obviously ticked him off and the Sox tried to trade him. That is how I saw it.
#1. He just came off of a contract that was backloaded. Why would the Sox think this would bother him?

#2. IIRC, the "trade" happened (pre-season) well before the White Sox final offer(during season).

samram
11-17-2004, 02:18 PM
You doubt he will? I would be willing to place a gentlemans bet on that. He is going to put on a show at the winter meetings to prove it. Hey, sorry if I feel Ordonez is going to be fine and worthy of a nice deal. He should have ended up with the Sox, period!
That's nice that you think he will be fine. Unfortunately, the Sox haven't been allowed to see whether there is any indication that Maggs will actually be ok. When an organization is talking about committing real money, it can't go on what it "feels." The decision makers need actual information about the player, which the Sox haven't received from Boras. I would love to see Maggs back because I think he is (or maybe was) a great player, but I can't blame the team for wanting to make sure it would be making a prudent investment.

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 02:25 PM
They offered him, IIRC, a backloaded deal when he had proven he was worth a GUARANTEED deal. This was before he got hurt. That obviously ticked him off and the Sox tried to trade him. That is how I saw it.
A backloaded deal like the one Tejada got? Or maybe like the one Vlady got? And pre the CBA, a backloaded deal whose maximum decrease in value could only be 6% off of a non-backloaded deal?

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Maggs is obviously better than Vlady or Tejada & it's an insult to offer him anything remotely similar to what those guys got. It's alos just plain insulting that they didn't simply say "OK" when he made his salary request. What they should have done was to say "Are you sure, Maggs? Why don't we give you 2mil/yr more, we don't want you to feel insulted or anything".

Kilroy
11-17-2004, 02:47 PM
Justafan = Magglio's mom.


Only a mom can blindly defend like that.

maurice
11-17-2004, 03:11 PM
:sahaf
"Clearly, you infidels are ignorant of the facts. Ordonez deserves whatever Beltran receives, and the Sox shall be punished for their insolence through the loss of 2005 draft picks. Ordonez is the greatest corner OF in the history of the AL Central. His secret surgery in Vienna was for a routine tear that already is completely healed. Wait . . . I mean, there was no injury. He just wanted some good coffee and chocolates. Fellow true-believer Sammy Sosa is in Paris right now for the same reason. Do not doubt the word of the great truth-sayer Scott Boras!"

Wealz
11-17-2004, 03:15 PM
You doubt he will? I would be willing to place a gentlemans bet on that. He is going to put on a show at the winter meetings to prove it. Hey, sorry if I feel Ordonez is going to be fine and worthy of a nice deal. He should have ended up with the Sox, period!
How many 10's of millions of dollars are you willing to place on this bet and for how long does he have to stay healthy for you to collect?

Jabroni
11-17-2004, 03:16 PM
They offered him, IIRC, a backloaded deal when he had proven he was worth a GUARANTEED deal. This was before he got hurt. That obviously ticked him off and the Sox tried to trade him. That is how I saw it.Who would you rather have for the same money -- Magglio Ordonez or MVP Vladimir Guerrero?

Why should we overpay Magglio just to keep him? He shouldn't be making the same money as Vlad and the deal the Sox offered him was more than fair.

Jabroni
11-17-2004, 03:18 PM
:sahaf
"Clearly, you infidels are ignorant of the facts. Ordonez deserves whatever Beltran receives, and the Sox shall be punished for their insolence through the loss of 2005 draft picks. Ordonez is the greatest corner OF in the history of the AL Central. His secret surgery in Vienna was for a routine tear that already is completely healed. Wait . . . I mean, there was no injury. He just wanted some good coffee and chocolates. Fellow true-believer Sammy Sosa is in Paris right now for the same reason. Do not doubt the word of the great truth-sayer Scott Boras!":)

jabrch
11-17-2004, 03:19 PM
They offered him, IIRC, a backloaded deal when he had proven he was worth a GUARANTEED deal.
A "backloaded" deal is still guaranteed.

Kogs35
11-17-2004, 03:20 PM
did any1 relize that boras said in the interview he helps baseball or something to that affect?

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 03:20 PM
Who would you rather have for the same money -- Magglio Ordonez or MVP Vladimir Guerrero?

Why should we overpay Magglio just to keep him? He shouldn't be making that same money as Vlad so the deal the Sox offered him was more than fair.
:yoohoo: :yoohoo: :yoohoo:
Oooooohhh...pick me! Pick me!














Um...Vlad. :smile:

Flight #24
11-17-2004, 03:27 PM
did any1 relize that boras said in the interview he helps baseball or something to that affect?
A comment which rings as true as his "Maggs went to Austria for minor surgery, his knee is fine....remain calm.....all is well....ALL IS WELL!!!!!" statement.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 03:28 PM
A comment which rings as true as his "Maggs went to Austria for minor surgery, his knee is fine....remain calm.....all is well....ALL IS WELL!!!!!" statement.
Ah yes...and Scotty has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell some folks. :wink:

PaulDrake
11-17-2004, 03:40 PM
I'd like you to support this claim. Especially the Best this organization ever had. Not being rude, just would like to see if you are indeed correct. You didn't ask me but I think you can make a strong case that Magglio was the best RFer in White Sox history. Both Shoeless Joe Jackson and Minnie Minoso played primarily in LF. Other notable RFers in White Sox history include Harry Hooper, Wally Moses, Jungle Jim Rivera (who also played a lot of CF), Floyd Robinson who was a personal favorite, and of course Harold Baines. In my opinion when you look at the stats objectively, and in my case rely on a long memory too, Magglio is the best of this bunch. Perhaps other "veteran" Sox fans here have an opinion. Regarding Maggs and the contract offered him. As I've said more than once JRs history is to have backloads, incentives, diminished skill clauses, and other assorted tricks. I don't really KNOW what offer was made to Magglio. So pardon me if I remain the skeptic. I do know this. If Magglio is healthy he's going to make the Sox sorry that he is gone. Sammy So So is apparently history on the North Side. I get a real sick feeling in the pit of my stomach thinking about Ordonez wearing that cute blue uniform.

bennyw41
11-17-2004, 03:55 PM
You didn't ask me but I think you can make a strong case that Magglio was the best RFer in White Sox history. Both Shoeless Joe Jackson and Minnie Minoso played primarily in LF. Other notable RFers in White Sox history include Harry Hooper, Wally Moses, Jungle Jim Rivera (who also played a lot of CF), Floyd Robinson who was a personal favorite, and of course Harold Baines. In my opinion when you look at the stats objectively, and in my case rely on a long memory too, Magglio is the best of this bunch. Perhaps other "veteran" Sox fans here have an opinion. Regarding Maggs and the contract offered him. As I've said more than once JRs history is to have backloads, incentives, diminished skill clauses, and other assorted tricks. I don't really KNOW what offer was made to Magglio. So pardon me if I remain the skeptic. I do know this. If Magglio is healthy he's going to make the Sox sorry that he is gone. Sammy So So is apparently history on the North Side. I get a real sick feeling in the pit of my stomach thinking about Ordonez wearing that cute blue uniform.
I haven't lost one nights sleep over losing out on Sosa. I think its clear he wasn't the same guy they traded away during the late 90's.

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 04:00 PM
I haven't lost one nights sleep over losing out on Sosa. I think its clear he wasn't the same guy they traded away during the late 90's.
Sure he is, you just gotta add a little bit of this: http://www.drugfreeaz.com/images_druginfo/steroids_photo.jpg

:D:

PaulDrake
11-17-2004, 04:28 PM
I haven't lost one nights sleep over losing out on Sosa. I think its clear he wasn't the same guy they traded away during the late 90's. If I gave the impression in my post that I was in any way supporting the Great Fraud that has patrolled RF for the adorable ones in recent years it was not my intention. I just think that his days in Wrigley have probably come to an end and I would hate to see Magglio replace him. I never regretted that the Sox traded Sosa and have never said as much verbally or via the internet. Again, I was just contending that Ordonez is the best the Sox ever had in RF, if he's healthy again we'll miss him. Lastly, I'm not convinced that the Sox offer to Magglio was a good as some here think it was. I know how JR operates. Lots of creative wording in his contracts. Ask Frank Thomas. Oh, did I just open up another can of worms??

John Barrett
11-17-2004, 04:38 PM
I honestly hope Magglio is healthy and makes JR pay for his mistreatment of him. We are talking about the best RF in Sox history being discarded like he was a bench player.

Injury or no injury, the Sox low-balled Magglio and it WILL come back to haunt them. Mark it down!
You got to be kidding ...maggs is a selfish piece of crap...he was offered good money in July but for some reason he thinkds he is in the same ballpark as Vlad...Forget maggs...i hope his career is done

34 Inch Stick
11-17-2004, 04:40 PM
A backloaded deal like the one Tejada got? Or maybe like the one Vlady got? And pre the CBA, a backloaded deal whose maximum decrease in value could only be 6% off of a non-backloaded deal?

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Maggs is obviously better than Vlady or Tejada & it's an insult to offer him anything remotely similar to what those guys got. It's alos just plain insulting that they didn't simply say "OK" when he made his salary request. What they should have done was to say "Are you sure, Maggs? Why don't we give you 2mil/yr more, we don't want you to feel insulted or anything".
Don't forget Sheffield in that group. I love Maggs. He was my guy ever since his rookie year. However, he was just flat out determined to go to FA unless the Sox clearly overpaid. The rest of the BS on both sides since he turned down the contract is meaningless. The Sox made a good offer that was preety comparable to what would have been the high end of the market. Maggs wanted to see how high it would go.

It is sad the relationship has deteriorated.

Kogs35
11-17-2004, 04:41 PM
mac,jurko,harry will be replaying parts of the interview later

pinwheels3530
11-17-2004, 04:46 PM
If I gave the impression in my post that I was in any way supporting the Great Fraud that has patrolled RF for the adorable ones in recent years it was not my intention. I just think that his days in Wrigley have probably come to an end and I would hate to see Magglio replace him. I never regretted that the Sox traded Sosa and have never said as much verbally or via the internet. Again, I was just contending that Ordonez is the best the Sox ever had in RF, if he's healthy again we'll miss him. Lastly, I'm not convinced that the Sox offer to Magglio was a good as some here think it was. I know how JR operates. Lots of creative wording in his contracts. Ask Frank Thomas. Oh, did I just open up another can of worms??
I agree everyone know Jr's history of being cheap to his players when it's time to pay up........the truth will come out in the end and I think Magglio will be playing a solid right field for a team who appreciates his services.

pinwheels3530
11-17-2004, 04:48 PM
You got to be kidding ...maggs is a selfish piece of crap...he was offered good money in July but for some reason he thinkds he is in the same ballpark as Vlad...Forget maggs...i hope his career is done

So MAGGS is selfish and Jr's cheap........the fans lose out in the end!

FightingBillini
11-17-2004, 04:50 PM
So MAGGS is selfish and Jr's cheap........the fans lose out in the end!
Truer words were never spoken.

jordan23ventura
11-18-2004, 12:41 AM
Where's the 'this thread sucks' tag?

Can somebody please go back and post it on the first page?

pearso66
11-18-2004, 02:19 AM
I forgot about Drew. His heath has never been a problem either.. Yes, sign him to a 5/70 deal right away.


nobody ever said offer him that deal, they said we could get him, and a starting pitcher for the same price, but you must have missed that.

and on your comment that you will make a bet, i would make one, but not that he wont play, because i'm sure he's very determined and will at least play 1 more year, or part of the year, which you would then claim you won, but i would wager that he wont be as effective as he was in the past, and may in fact need to play DH which we already have one, and he is a player i would rather have, and carries the team more when healthy.

depy48
11-18-2004, 02:55 AM
if maggs wanted to be here, then he'd would have kept his agent. by changing to boras, maggs indicated he never really considered the whitesox in 05. i like maggs more than the next guy, but he has a lot to prove to diminish the fear that he has lost a step due to injury. on the first page of whitesox.com, you can watch the video of maggs and willie colliding. so when you think of what we're going to lose out on maggs, watch that clip.

ChiSoxBobette
11-18-2004, 07:59 AM
Boras took the high road with regards to Williams comments. He said that he has not heard that from Williams himself, but said that GM's are given budgets and they have to follow them.

He said he has no problems with JR or KW personally. He said he has a few clients interested in the Sox(did not name them). Says Chicago is a great place to play and we will see what the Sox have to offer(cough cough not enough).

Talked about Ordonez and said that he is healthy and the operation he had was "pedestrian". Translation=Get ready for Magglio to shove it up anyone's ass who thinks otherwise. Oh man, did the Sox drop the ball here(my opinion) and they will regret this move.

Says Beltran is interested in the Cubs and loves the city of Chicago. He said the Cubs are a MAJOR MARKET TEAM. I took this as a DIRECT slap at the mid market Sox. No doubt in my mind that is why he said it. He said the Cubs are always a player with him for the big market players.

That is pretty much it.
Magglio Ordonez & Scott Boras are douchebags!

SEALgep
11-18-2004, 08:00 AM
I honestly hope Magglio is healthy and makes JR pay for his mistreatment of him. We are talking about the best RF in Sox history being discarded like he was a bench player.

Injury or no injury, the Sox low-balled Magglio and it WILL come back to haunt them. Mark it down!4 years at $60 mill is the biggest slap in the face you can give a player. We might as well have just spit in his face.