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View Full Version : Guzman to Washington -- now who?


NonetheLoaiza
11-16-2004, 05:07 PM
Guzman and Castilla sign with Washington. Now who do the Sox go after, if any SS?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3169086

ilsox7
11-16-2004, 05:10 PM
Guzman and Castilla sign with Washington. Now who do the Sox go after, if any SS?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3169086
Thank you thank you thank you that Guzman went to Washington and not here.

rdivaldi
11-16-2004, 05:10 PM
Why would we be going after a shortstop anyway? This team has much bigger holes in the bullpen, in the rotation, and at second base. I'm relieved that we didn't waste a load of cash signing an ancient Vizquel or a horrible hitting Guzman.

:gulp:

CubKilla
11-16-2004, 05:11 PM
Guzman and Castilla sign with Washington. Now who do the Sox go after, if any SS?
No one. Uribe will be the Opening Day SS.

jabrch
11-16-2004, 05:12 PM
Great move KW!!!!! Guzman got 4 years from Washington...geez

Justafan
11-16-2004, 05:12 PM
Nomar, O-Cab and Renteria are certainly on the Sox radar.

:manos (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

"I'll work for cheap, Kenny. Another year of low OBP and high K's are my forte".

FightingBillini
11-16-2004, 05:13 PM
:dinger "Haha, its a celebration, bitches."

Im so glad he went elsewhere. I would love us to pick up Polanco for cheap, but I woudln't mind us going into next year with Harris and Uribe up the middle.

CubKilla
11-16-2004, 05:15 PM
I would love us to pick up Polanco for cheap, but I woudln't mind us going into next year with Harris and Uribe up the middle.
I would. Harris is just god awful. Has anyone in MLB history ever had the speed that Willie Harris has and NOT been able to steal bases?

But Harris comes cheap and everyone knows the only numbers that matter to this Organization are the one's that follow a "$".

MRKARNO
11-16-2004, 05:22 PM
Has anyone in MLB history ever had the speed that Willie Harris has and NOT been able to steal bases?

Yes, Christian Guzman.

NonetheLoaiza
11-16-2004, 05:23 PM
:dinger "Haha, its a celebration, bitches."

Im so glad he went elsewhere. I would love us to pick up Polanco for cheap, but I woudln't mind us going into next year with Harris and Uribe up the middle.
Polanco gives you options, especially if he is had for cheap. He can play those 3 infield positions and give you consistent numbers, although nothing monsterous. definitely an upgrade over harris until he gets something (if anything) figured out.

Brian26
11-16-2004, 05:26 PM
Well, this is certainly a bit of good news.

Watch Valentin end up back with the Sox.

jabrch
11-16-2004, 05:26 PM
17mm for 4 years?

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 05:29 PM
:dinger "Haha, its a celebration, bitches."

Im so glad he went elsewhere. I would love us to pick up Polanco for cheap, but I woudln't mind us going into next year with Harris and Uribe up the middle.
I have to agree with the Illini fan. And a warning - If Kenny Williams makes a late July trade for the 37 year old Castilla (who was also acquired) for another famous run 2nd place to shore up the whole the Sox have had at 3rd base since, forever, Sox fans will including myself will storm the general manager suite (as opposed to the field as is custom).

Vinnie Castilla - 37 Years Old
2004
Coors Field - .321 / .379 / .575
Non Coors Field - .218 / .281 / .493

Coincidence, I think not.

Brian26
11-16-2004, 05:31 PM
17mm for 4 years?

You're joking. That's what he signed for? $4.25 million a year? Man, that seems overpriced.

Mots09
11-16-2004, 05:36 PM
per ESPNews

infohawk
11-16-2004, 05:38 PM
Guzman and Castilla sign with Washington. Now who do the Sox go after, if any SS?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3169086I think that we can assume that KW if comfortable with Uribe at short. If he weren't, he would probably have overpaid for Vizquel or Guzman. If he really thought shortstop was a significant weakness, he may well have been justified in overpaying for one of these guys. I certainly don't see him trying to sign Renteria or Garciaparra.

I think KW has more significant moves in mind than trying to find a shortstop, unless he were to land one on the cheap, allowing him to slide Uribe over to second base. I would be surprised if any free agent deal isn't preceded by a trade or two. I don't know what he will actually pull off on the trade front. I think he is probably targeting two or three players in particular. Kendall may be one of them and one of Randy Johnson/Javier Vazquez/Mark Mulder may be another. My guess is he would like his trades to set the table and any free agent acquistions to cap off his efforts.

I will give KW credit when it comes to thinking big. I'm not saying he is always successful at player acquisitions, but I credit him with making a legitimate effort. He did get Colon and Garcia, and almost landed Garciaparra. I know the feelings about Nomar are mixed, but my point is that he was a household name.

SoxxoS
11-16-2004, 05:42 PM
17mm for 4 years?

Someone overpaid about 14 million...good start Washington.

ChiWhiteSox1337
11-16-2004, 05:42 PM
Well, that's good because KW won't be able to sign him now. Now to the part that will actually affect us, who's going to replace Guzman on the twins? They always seem to have major league caliber replacements in the minor leagues, unlike the white sox :whiner:

jabrch
11-16-2004, 05:55 PM
You're joking. That's what he signed for? $4.25 million a year? Man, that seems overpriced.
No joke....KW had a bargain on his hands when Vizquel almost signed for 2/8.

SoxxoS
11-16-2004, 05:59 PM
I think I got the guy for our lineup...

Craig Counsell

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5547

You may look at the numbers and think why would we want him? I think from 2000-2002 he batted in front of a rejuvenated Luis Gonzalez and got A LOT of fastballs over that time. The numbers showed it. The past two years he has been struggling, as nobody on the Brewers except Jenkins scares you.

He can field a tad above average, he will move guys over AND he can get a bunt down. Plus he plays hard. If we put him in front of Big Frank, I think he can have a nice season.

Soxzilla
11-16-2004, 06:02 PM
Well, that's good because KW won't be able to sign him now. Now to the part that will actually affect us, who's going to replace Guzman on the twins? They always seem to have major league caliber replacements in the minor leagues, unlike the white sox :whiner:
:manos


:bandance:

jabrch
11-16-2004, 06:10 PM
I think I got the guy for our lineup...

Craig Counsell

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5547

You may look at the numbers and think why would we want him? I think from 2000-2002 he batted in front of a rejuvenated Luis Gonzalez and got A LOT of fastballs over that time. The numbers showed it. The past two years he has been struggling, as nobody on the Brewers except Jenkins scares you.

He can field a tad above average, he will move guys over AND he can get a bunt down. Plus he plays hard. If we put him in front of Big Frank, I think he can have a nice season.
Is that any better than Harris? If we are going to spend money on someone instead of sticking with what we have, can't we get someone good?

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 06:12 PM
Is that any better than Harris? If we are going to spend money on someone instead of sticking with what we have, can't we get someone good?No. Let's spend what money we have replacing all the cheap guys we have with more expensive players who aren't really any better. If we have them, they can't be any good.

jake27
11-16-2004, 06:12 PM
:bandance: good i didnt want him :cool:

:bandance:

CubsfansareDRUNK
11-16-2004, 06:13 PM
whoa whoa whoa..washington "expos"?

SoxxoS
11-16-2004, 06:16 PM
No. Let's spend what money we have replacing all the cheap guys we have with more expensive players who aren't really any better. If we have them, they can't be any good.

Last I checked, Willie Harris plays 2B, not SS.

Yeah, I mean the players we have now are working so well? Why not just re-sign Valentin? :rolleyes:

Jabroni
11-16-2004, 06:17 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1924347
WASHINGTON -- The Expos made their first big splash since the announcement they plan to move to Washington, agreeing Tuesday to a $6.2 million, two-year contract with third baseman Vinny Castilla (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4746) and a $16.8 million, four-year deal with shortstop Cristian Guzman (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6186).HAHA! Thanks Washington!

How the hell did that scrub get that kind of money? :?:

Jjav829
11-16-2004, 06:19 PM
I think I got the guy for our lineup...

Craig Counsell

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5547

You may look at the numbers and think why would we want him? I think from 2000-2002 he batted in front of a rejuvenated Luis Gonzalez and got A LOT of fastballs over that time. The numbers showed it. The past two years he has been struggling, as nobody on the Brewers except Jenkins scares you.

He can field a tad above average, he will move guys over AND he can get a bunt down. Plus he plays hard. If we put him in front of Big Frank, I think he can have a nice season.
No thanks. He's no better than Willie Harris and he'll make more. I'd like to think we can do better than Craig Counell for our everyday middle infielders.

Jjav829
11-16-2004, 06:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1924347
HAHA! Thanks Washington!

How the hell did that scrub get that kind of money? :?:
That's some serious overpaying. Thank you Kenny for not giving him that money!

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 06:25 PM
Last I checked, Willie Harris plays 2B, not SS.

Yeah, I mean the players we have now are working so well? Why not just re-sign Valentin? :rolleyes:If you want to really improve the team you don't do it by throwing $6M at a player with a .010 higher BA. That works out to about 6 extra hits over a season at the bargain price of $1M each. At that price they had better all be grand slams. Vizquel, Polanco and a lot of the other names I've seen mentioned here are, at best, only a little better than the player they replace. If you want to significantly improve the team by replacing players, you need to replace them with players who are MUCH better. Stop screwing around with marginal improvements. Either get a difference-maker or just stick with what you have. Marginal improvements aren't going to get you to the WS.

Lip Man 1
11-16-2004, 06:39 PM
Remember friends and neighbors what PHG posted in this week's column? The price of players has gone up, and always will go up. It's not 'overpaid' if someone is willing to give the contracts out.

Unfortunately the Sox usually aren't one of those willing to 'give till it hurts...'they only expect the fans to do that! LOL.

Lip

Palehose13
11-16-2004, 06:47 PM
I would like to see the Sox try to get Roberts or Hairston, jr. from Baltimore.

*Edit: Oh and :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: about Guzman not coming to the Sox!

TheBull19
11-16-2004, 07:15 PM
If you want to really improve the team you don't do it by throwing $6M at a player with a .010 higher BA.
If you think Counsell will get 6 mil yer nuts. Besides if the sox go with uribe/crede/harris in the IF we still need a decent utility IFer.

beck72
11-16-2004, 07:18 PM
Sign Miguel Cairo to platoon with Willie at 2b. He can also play SS, and 3B [played LF, RF and 1B for STL as well]
*Hit .336/.377/.445 vs LHP in 2004 w/ the Yanks
*has some speed, 11 sb's in only 360 ab's
*a veteran who made $900,000 last yr

chisoxmike
11-16-2004, 07:32 PM
Damn it people.... Juan Uribe should be our starting SS!!! We need PITCHING AND BULLPEN HELP!

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 07:33 PM
If you think Counsell will get 6 mil yer nuts. Besides if the sox go with uribe/crede/harris in the IF we still need a decent utility IFer.He won't, but then I don't think he's even as good as what we have now. Someone like him might be OK for a utility guy, kind of a Tony Graffanino type.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 07:34 PM
Damn it people.... Juan Uribe should be our starting SS!!! We need PITCHING AND BULLPEN HELP!Amen.

Palehose13
11-16-2004, 07:39 PM
Damn it people.... Juan Uribe should be our starting SS!!! We need PITCHING AND BULLPEN HELP!
We need that too. Here is my wish list, in order of priority:

1. Starting Pitcher
2. Relief Pitcher(s)
3. Middle Infield or Third Base
4. Catcher
5. Outfielder

Just my opinion...rip away. :cool:

SoxxoS
11-16-2004, 07:52 PM
Damn it people.... Juan Uribe should be our starting SS!!! We need PITCHING AND BULLPEN HELP!

I have no problem with that, but we need someone to be able to step in ala Graffanino and play. A Crede-Uribe-Harris infield didn't work last year. What makes you think it's going to work this year?

Not to mention Uribe is VERY streaky, and I thought that is the kind of stuff we were trying to get away from this offseason.

CHIsoxNation
11-16-2004, 07:54 PM
I must say I am pretty relieved. If Kenny wants to go out and throw out a bunch of money now on a shortstop, I would say do it on Renteria!!

SoxxoS
11-16-2004, 07:55 PM
He won't, but then I don't think he's even as good as what we have now. Someone like him might be OK for a utility guy, kind of a Tony Graffanino type.

I think he needs someone like Frank to hit behind him so he sees fastballs. Plus, he does the little things. Don't just look at BA as a statistic. It's not so black and white. That has been our problem these past 4 years...

"Look at Jose...30 bombs. Look at Crede...809 OPS finishing up the year in 2003. Look at Willie...hitting over .300 in Charlotte.

I want a guy like Vizquel that moves guys over and can bunt. I am over statistics, generally, as a whole. Give me a guy that plays the game right.

SomebodyToldMe
11-16-2004, 07:58 PM
Watch Valentin end up back with the Sox.
Don't you dare even say such a thing!

WikdChiSoxFan
11-16-2004, 08:11 PM
We need that too. Here is my wish list, in order of priority:

1. Starting Pitcher
2. Relief Pitcher(s)
3. Middle Infield or Third Base
4. Catcher
5. Outfielder

Just my opinion...rip away. :cool:There's just too many holes to plug...

But I almost entirely agree with your order, except I think we'll fare a little bit better if we sign a decent outfielder over signing a decent catcher. Burke and Ben big question marks, who knows which one will show up to play

Also, I may have a little more faith in our young players and for that I know I will be chastised. Juan and Willie had really good numbers (far exceeding many of our expectations) at the beginning of the year before big bad Jose (breaking ball, where?) came back. I think platooning does something to players. Maybe just our players...take a look at Rowand...Maggs goes down, AR starts tearin it up out there. Same kinda thing with Gload. So, if we get a 2Baseman for a good deal, I'm all for it. However, I think if we're still floating in July and 2B or SS proves to be the biggest leak, we try to plug it then. But I think some may be suprised at Willie and Juan's performance in starting roles.

Obviously, pitching is the most important in my mind.

But how bout improving the farm system...i'd like guys like Morneau, Ford, and Mauer to come out of my farm system...then we could see the playoffs and JR could be happy. perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...

The Cheat
11-16-2004, 08:25 PM
Sign Miguel Cairo to platoon with Willie at 2b. He can also play SS, and 3B [played LF, RF and 1B for STL as well]
*Hit .336/.377/.445 vs LHP in 2004 w/ the Yanks
*has some speed, 11 sb's in only 360 ab's
*a veteran who made $900,000 last yrThat's a solid option.

JRIG
11-16-2004, 09:30 PM
Looks like we're going to have to "settle" for Polanco. Dammit.

Of course, with our luck it'll be Pokey Reese.

Thank you Washington for overpaying dearly for Christian Guzman.

pearso66
11-16-2004, 10:23 PM
There's just too many holes to plug...

But I almost entirely agree with your order, except I think we'll fare a little bit better if we sign a decent outfielder over signing a decent catcher. Burke and Ben big question marks, who knows which one will show up to play

Also, I may have a little more faith in our young players and for that I know I will be chastised. Juan and Willie had really good numbers (far exceeding many of our expectations) at the beginning of the year before big bad Jose (breaking ball, where?) came back. I think platooning does something to players. Maybe just our players...take a look at Rowand...Maggs goes down, AR starts tearin it up out there. Same kinda thing with Gload. So, if we get a 2Baseman for a good deal, I'm all for it. However, I think if we're still floating in July and 2B or SS proves to be the biggest leak, we try to plug it then. But I think some may be suprised at Willie and Juan's performance in starting roles.

Obviously, pitching is the most important in my mind.

But how bout improving the farm system...i'd like guys like Morneau, Ford, and Mauer to come out of my farm system...then we could see the playoffs and JR could be happy. perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...


I agree with improving our farm system but the only way we get a Mauer type is to actually do horrible for a year, remember he was the #1 pick overall. Wasn't Morneau a high pick also? we are forever trapped between 15 and 20

ma-gaga
11-16-2004, 11:08 PM
Wasn't Morneau a high pick also?
Morneau was a third round pick. So the Sox likely had a couple of shots at him, but didn't want to 'waste' a first or second round pick on him...

:)

ma-gaga
11-16-2004, 11:15 PM
I found kind of a neat site. http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D (http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D) Showing all the draft picks. Anyways, here's who the W.Sox took instead of J.Morneau.


1999 Draft (http://www.sports-wired.com/draft/draft.asp?Y=1999&R=1&P=June-Reg)
1. (15)Jason Stumm (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HBGD)AA1. (22)Matt Ginter (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=IBD)MLB1. (35)Brian West (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HEDE)AAA1. (45)Rob Purvis (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GGGI)AAA2.Jonathan Wright (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=DGJHH)Ind2.Bobby Hill (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=FGHG)MLB

El Kenballo
11-16-2004, 11:22 PM
So jason stumm and brian west should be up this year for us RIGHT?

Palehose13
11-17-2004, 10:13 AM
I found kind of a neat site. http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D (http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D) Showing all the draft picks. Anyways, here's who the W.Sox took instead of J.Morneau.


1999 Draft (http://www.sports-wired.com/draft/draft.asp?Y=1999&R=1&P=June-Reg)
1. (15)Jason Stumm (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HBGD)AA1. (22)Matt Ginter (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=IBD)MLB1. (35)Brian West (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HEDE)AAA1. (45)Rob Purvis (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GGGI)AAA2.Jonathan Wright (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=DGJHH)Ind2.Bobby Hill (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=FGHG)MLB
So jason stumm and brian west should be up this year for us RIGHT?
Let's be fair. How about a list of all the guys that were taken before Mark Buerhle? The draft in baseball is so much more of a crapshoot than say football.

Brian26
11-17-2004, 11:00 AM
I found kind of a neat site. http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D (http://www.sports-wired.com/teams/team.asp?ID=7&N=D) Showing all the draft picks. Anyways, here's who the W.Sox took instead of J.Morneau.


1999 Draft (http://www.sports-wired.com/draft/draft.asp?Y=1999&R=1&P=June-Reg)
1. (15)Jason Stumm (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HBGD)AA1. (22)Matt Ginter (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=IBD)MLB1. (35)Brian West (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=HEDE)AAA1. (45)Rob Purvis (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GGGI)AAA2.Jonathan Wright (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=DGJHH)Ind2.Bobby Hill (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=FGHG)MLB

Is this the same Bobby Hill that went to the Cubs and Pirates? I had no idea he was once in our organization.

Brian26
11-17-2004, 11:01 AM
Let's be fair. How about a list of all the guys that were taken before Mark Buerhle? The draft in baseball is so much more of a crapshoot than say football.

Exactly. How about all the top-level draft picks that haven't panned out over the years? Borchard?

JRIG
11-17-2004, 11:04 AM
Is this the same Bobby Hill that went to the Cubs and Pirates? I had no idea he was once in our organization.
He wasn't. Scott Boras was his agent. He wouldn't sign with the Sox so he re-entered the draft and was taken by the Cubs in the next year.

Lip Man 1
11-17-2004, 01:49 PM
Brian West quit baseball two years ago to go back to LSU and play football. He was a linebacker (and a good one) on LSU's co-championship club.

Lip