PDA

View Full Version : Will Carroll says Sox and 9 other teams have bidded on Beltran.


Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:26 PM
Seems odd that Williams was quoted as saying he would not deal with Boras, yet Carroll says an offer was made.

http://www.all-baseball.com/willcarroll/archives/016371.html

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 02:29 PM
Seems odd that Williams was quoted as saying he would not deal with Boras, yet Carroll says an offer was made.

http://www.all-baseball.com/willcarroll/archives/016371.html
The Sox' theoretical offer is the smallest on the "poker" table. Despite what Jerry Reinsdorf tells you, size DOES matter. :D:

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 02:29 PM
Seems odd that Williams was quoted as saying he would not deal with Boras, yet Carroll says an offer was made. Are you new in town?

jabrch
11-16-2004, 02:31 PM
The Sox' theoretical offer is the smallest on the "poker" table.
And you know this how exactly?

Jabroni
11-16-2004, 02:33 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_136860.jpg
"I don't think $5 million a year is going to cut it Kenny."


:KW
"You mean you don't want to play for Ozzie?!?"

Iwritecode
11-16-2004, 02:33 PM
"I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said Monday.

Where does it say he won't deal with Boras or any of his clients???

Iwritecode
11-16-2004, 02:34 PM
And you know this how exactly?

Click the link...

Tekijawa
11-16-2004, 02:34 PM
Can I put a thousand down on "we came in second" in the bidding for Beltran. That's the one thing this team is outstanding at! Coming in second for Free Agents and Divisions in Baseball!

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by SouthSide_HitMen
The Sox' theoretical offer is the smallest on the "poker" table.


And you know this how exactly?
Click the link and read it. If you don't know what theoretical means:

Main Entry: the·o·ret·i·cal http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?theore03.wav=theoretical'))
Pronunciation: "thE-&-'re-ti-k&l, "thi(-&)r-'e-
Variant(s): also the·o·ret·ic http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?theore04.wav=theoretic')) /-tik/
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin theoreticus, from Greek theOrEtikos, from theOrein to look at
1 a : relating to or having the character of theory (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=theory) : ABSTRACT (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=abstract) b : confined to theory (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=theory) or speculation often in contrast to practical applications : SPECULATIVE (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=speculative) <theoretical physics>
2 : given to or skilled in theorizing (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=theorizing) <a brilliant theoretical physicist>
3 : existing only in theory (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=theory) : HYPOTHETICAL (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hypothetical) <gave as an example a theoretical situation> http://www.m-w.com/images/pixt.gif

Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:35 PM
"I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said Monday.

Where does it say he won't deal with Boras or any of his clients???
He did not say wont. He did say Boras "overvalues" his clients. That is a pretty big indicator that he wont deal with him.

Jjav829
11-16-2004, 02:40 PM
Those seem like some high opening bids. If those are true, Boras isn't as far off as we thought he was. That said, I believe it only because the Sox offer is the smallest.

Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:42 PM
Those seem like some high opening bids. If those are true, Boras isn't as far off as we thought he was. That said, I believe it only because the Sox offer is the smallest.
Edited post. Sox did offer $15M a year. Still low man on the list.

faneidde
11-16-2004, 02:44 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that 15 mil per year could be better spent elsewhere? If I recall, our center fielder played pretty well last year.

Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:45 PM
:KW

We feel like the lowest offer will get Carlos to the south side".

Flight #24
11-16-2004, 02:45 PM
5 million a year? That is pathetic! Jose Valentin got that much.
Sox offer was supposedly $15/yr. And that's an opening bid, I'm guessing that teams didnt' know what other teams were offering, but now they do. That may well be the precursor to KW's comment this AM.

$15mil as an opening bid seem decent to me, assuming they didn't lead with their "best", they'd probably have been willing to go to 17-18mil. But with the Angels at 20, I'd guess he'll end up elsewhere for a 6-8year deal at 19-20mil. Amazing.

Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:48 PM
My bad. Sox offered 15M over 6 years. Still, no where close to the top dogs in MLB.

Iwritecode
11-16-2004, 02:50 PM
He did not say wont. He did say Boras "overvalues" his clients. That is a pretty big indicator that he wont deal with him.

I don't think he'll cut himself off like that. I think it just means that he'll still talk with him (like he did on Monday) and still put bids in on Boras clients (like he did with Beltran) but expects Boras to raise the bidding to un-godly amounts that are out of the Sox price range (like he did with A-rod).

Randar68
11-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Those seem like some high opening bids. If those are true, Boras isn't as far off as we thought he was. That said, I believe it only because the Sox offer is the smallest.
I HIGHLY doubt that as many teams as listed are offering 8 or more years. I doubt more than 2 teams are starting at 8+ years. 6-8 is what I expect somewhere in the 16-18 million range per year. Not sure what the outcome will be, but I think the post-season pushed his asking price out of KW's range. Good to see him not biting on some of these things and over-reacting and over-paying...

Seems he's being patient, and I know that's tough for him...

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 02:51 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that 15 mil per year could be better spent elsewhere? If I recall, our center fielder played pretty well last year.No, you're not the only one. Pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Tekijawa
11-16-2004, 02:52 PM
My bad. Sox offered 15M over 6 years. Still, no where close to the top dogs in MLB.
And with that offer Boras sent a Cliff's Notes version of the Binder that he put together for the other teams.

Jabroni
11-16-2004, 02:52 PM
Those just look like a bunch of rumors.

But it is funny to see that the Cubs didn't offer that much more than us...

Cubs = 7x16 ($112m)
White Sox = 6x15 ($90m)

Iwritecode
11-16-2004, 02:53 PM
My bad. Sox offered 15M over 6 years. Still, no where close to the top dogs in MLB.

Which is exactly why he doesn't "expect" to sign any Boras clients this year.

Paulwny
11-16-2004, 02:54 PM
Now that Boras has some concrete offers I suspect he's calling Cashman.How high will King George go?

Justafan
11-16-2004, 02:55 PM
Those just look like a bunch of rumors.

But it is funny to see that the Cubs didn't offer that much more than us...

Cubs = 7x16 ($112m)
White Sox = 6x15 ($90m)Not on a yearly average, but overall they offered 22M more.

Over By There
11-16-2004, 02:56 PM
Here are the offers, for those like me that are lazy.


Angels = 5x20 ($100m)
Phillies = 10x15.5 ($155m)
Yankees = 8x18.1 ($145m)
Orioles = 6x18.3 ($110m)
Red Sox = 7x17 ($119m)
Astros = 10x11 ($110m)
Dodgers = 5x18 ($90m)
Cubs = 7x16 ($112m)
Rangers = 7x15.7 ($110m)
White Sox = 6x15 ($90m)

The Sox offer looks low compared to some of the rest of these, but I think it's a fair starting point. If the Phils, Astros, etc. are guaranteeing that many years (which isn't clear), that's crazy. Walk away, Kenny, you tried. And I for one won't criticize the offer.

Justafan
11-16-2004, 03:05 PM
Williams: "Hey, Scott. We are prepared to offer Carlos a 6/15M contract".

Boras: "Ummm, Sure, Kenny. Do me a favor and lose me cell #".

Williams: "We are not going to deal(Don't expect to) with Boras anymore":



Ahhh, the timing of this makes so much sense.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 03:06 PM
Now that Boras has some concrete offers I suspect he's calling Cashman.How high will King George go?Exactly. This is vintage Boras. Leaking information trying to drive up the price. Which is exactly why he's in demand, of course. No one hires an agent to get them LESS money.

southsider17
11-16-2004, 03:13 PM
He did not say wont. He did say Boras "overvalues" his clients. That is a pretty big indicator that he wont deal with him.
No, it's an indicator that he won't likely get them to agree to his price.

infohawk
11-16-2004, 03:35 PM
The Sox' theoretical offer is the smallest on the "poker" table. Despite what Jerry Reinsdorf tells you, size DOES matter. :D:Fifteen million a year is a substantial offer from the perspective of White Sox management. It certainly won't get the job done unless Beltran desperately wants to play in Chicago for Ozzie Guillen, which I doubt. Nothing against Ozzie, I just suspect Beltran will make a decision based upon contract value. Clearly, several other teams will outbid the Sox.

I wonder if the $15 million per year offer was submitted before Vizquel signed with the Giants. If so, I wonder if KW held off on Vizquel thinking he might be able to use the additional $4-5 million a year to increase his bid for Beltran.

If Beltran were to sign with the Sox for $15 million a year or more, I would think the Sox would then have to trade both Konerko and Lee if they wanted to free up money for another starting pitcher/bullpen help. Just speculating a "what if" scenario. My assumption is that if the Sox by some miracle landed Beltran, a domino effect of moves would follow because of the aformentioned potential trades of Lee and Konerko. I'm not suggesting the Sox would have to go young and rebuild around Beltran, but several holes would need to be filled within the constraints of the Sox self-imposed payroll.

Frankfan4life
11-16-2004, 03:42 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_136860.jpg
"I don't think $5 million a year is going to cut it Kenny."


:KW
"You mean you don't want to play for Ozzie?!?"Funniest thing I've heard today! I give it three :D: :D: :D:

Randar68
11-16-2004, 03:45 PM
Fifteen million a year is a substantial offer from the perspective of White Sox management. It certainly won't get the job done unless Beltran desperately wants to play in Chicago for Ozzie Guillen, which I doubt. Nothing against Ozzie, I just suspect Beltran will make a decision based upon contract value. Clearly, several other teams will outbid the Sox.

I wonder if the $15 million per year offer was submitted before Vizquel signed with the Giants. If so, I wonder if KW held off on Vizquel thinking he might be able to use the additional $4-5 million a year to increase his bid for Beltran.

If Beltran were to sign with the Sox for $15 million a year or more, I would think the Sox would then have to trade both Konerko and Lee if they wanted to free up money for another starting pitcher/bullpen help. Just speculating a "what if" scenario. My assumption is that if the Sox by some miracle landed Beltran, a domino effect of moves would follow because of the aformentioned potential trades of Lee and Konerko. I'm not suggesting the Sox would have to go young and rebuild around Beltran, but several holes would need to be filled within the constraints of the Sox self-imposed payroll.
Ok, if they signed Beltran, another hypothetical because Carlos played himself out of the Sox' price range last month...

Everett, Beltran, Rowand makes a heck of a lot more sense than some of the other possibilities with Carl/Frank splitting time at DH and Carl in RF and such...

Would I trade CLee and Konerko to make room for Beltran? Damned right I would...

Kilroy
11-16-2004, 03:56 PM
Walk away, Kenny, you tried. And I for one won't criticize the offer.
I also won't criticize it. And if he walks, when I see him at Soxfest, I'll shake his hand for being smart enuf to know better. If you're spend 90 mil, spend it on pitching...

infohawk
11-16-2004, 04:00 PM
Ok, if they signed Beltran, another hypothetical because Carlos played himself out of the Sox' price range last month...

Everett, Beltran, Rowand makes a heck of a lot more sense than some of the other possibilities with Carl/Frank splitting time at DH and Carl in RF and such...

Would I trade CLee and Konerko to make room for Beltran? Damned right I would...
I'm not making a value judgement with regard to whether having Beltran would be worth potientially losing Lee and Konerko. I think a strong argument could be made for building around Beltran. I'm just suggesting that a Beltran signing would likely precede some significant trades.

I also don't think the Sox will acquire Beltran.

Rex Hudler
11-16-2004, 04:57 PM
Am i the only one that thinks these "offers" are the figment of someone's imagination and are pure speculation????

Wealz
11-16-2004, 05:33 PM
Would I trade CLee and Konerko to make room for Beltran? Damned right I would...
I'd do that too.

How about Beltre @ 6/$75M, Polanco @ 3/$15M, and Kendall @3/$34M, dealing Konerko and Lee? This would be an increase of about $10M and put the payroll around $75M.

munchman33
11-16-2004, 05:42 PM
But with the Angels at 20, I'd guess he'll end up elsewhere for a 6-8year deal at 19-20mil. Amazing.
That's ridiculous. He is so not worth that.

Randar68
11-16-2004, 06:19 PM
Am i the only one that thinks these "offers" are the figment of someone's imagination and are pure speculation????
No. I don't think these types of numbers are floated this early in the process. Are those the teams interested? Sure. Is it more likely that Boras floated those numbers as the real initial offers +20% in years and money... probably more likely than those being the real #'s...

Randar68
11-16-2004, 06:21 PM
I'd do that too.

How about Beltre @ 6/$75M, Polanco @ 3/$15M, and Kendall @3/$34M, dealing Konerko and Lee? This would be an increase of about $10M and put the payroll around $75M.
I haven't seen numbers floated yet for Beltre.

IMO, getting Beltran makes Clee expendable. Without acquiring an OF'er, we're looking at Carl, Rowand, Lee from RF-LF... YIKES!

I agree, though. If taking 20 million a year over those years Beltran is seeking and spreading it out to 4 or 5 other guys is probably the best move. Fill as many holes as possible with legit players. Kendall, Polanco, Drew, Damien Miller, etc...

Jjav829
11-16-2004, 06:23 PM
No. I don't think these types of numbers are floated this early in the process. Are those the teams interested? Sure. Is it more likely that Boras floated those numbers as the real initial offers +20% in years and money... probably more likely than those being the real #'s...I'd agree with this as well. The numbers jumped out at me when I saw them. I would say the Sox supposed offer is more like what Beltran will end up with. I don't think that's a starting point. I think he'll end up with a 6-7 year deal averaging $16 or $17 million. I could be way off, but I do question the validity of those numbers as well.