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View Full Version : My Projected 05 Payroll!!


GiveMeSox
11-15-2004, 11:48 PM
I made a little spreadsheet here to see how much money the sox have on the books already for 2005. So here are my findings. My source for this information is a combination of http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/, sox press releases, and logical assumptions. Note this is only a rough prediction just to get us a # to work with. I put in all the info we know as of today like Franks, Shingo's, Pollite's, and Everett's options. Also for everyone that made league minimum of 300k in 04 I gave them a salary of 500k thinking there are due at least some raise, however these differences are minor. My 25 man roster is based on the roster we had last year when everyone was healthy.

*All Values are in Millions of Dollars*

1. Adkins - 0.5
2. Borchard - 0.5
3. Buehrle - 6.0
4. Burke - 0.5
5. Contreras - 6.0
6. Cotts - 0.5
7. Crede - 0.5
8. Davis - 0.75
9. Diaz/Escobar - 0.5
10. Everett - 4.0
11. Garcia - 9.0
12. Garland - 2.5
13. Grilli - 0.5
14. Gload - 0.5
15. Harris - 0.5
16. Konerko - 7.67
17. Lee - 7.5
18. Marte - 1.58
19. Perez - 0.85
20. Pollite - 1.3
21. Rowand - 0.5
22. Takatsu - 2.5
23. Thomas - 8.0
24. Uribe - 0.75
25. Valdez - 0.35

Total 05 Payroll = 63.75

CPditka
11-16-2004, 12:20 AM
Nice work!

Too bad it only adds up to maybe 5 mil or so in more flexibility....
Its time to get real creative.


Sell Jerry Sell

GiveMeSox
11-16-2004, 12:23 AM
Nice work!

Too bad it only adds up to maybe 5 mil or so in more flexibility....
Its time to get real creative.


Sell Jerry Sell
Way to get creative CP "Sell Jerry Sell"

CPditka
11-16-2004, 12:35 AM
I just dont see us ever living up to our potential under the current ownership. We need a new face, with a bigger budget to get the respect we need and become the dominant team we should be.







Vote Yes on Proposition 1917:
Forcing Jerry to Sell the Sox.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 01:26 AM
I made a little spreadsheet here to see how much money the sox have on the books already for 2005. So here are my findings.

5. Contreras - 6.0
10. Everett - 4.0
23. Thomas - 8.0

Total 05 Payroll = 63.75

The fact that close to 30% of the payroll are tied up in mid / late 30s huge ?s could have been avoided with some forward thinking. Add Garcia's $8 mil and we are talking $26 of $64 million or 40% of the payroll for a #2 (slight reach) or solid #3 pitcher, two hitters who should provide 200 games + (hopefully) of above average ball and a pitcher who cannot frind home plate.

Until Kenny learns to dedicate large contract dollars to players in their peak (late 20s / early 30s) and hold on to as many good young players and their 6 years before FA (or Kenny is replaced), the Sox will be hard pressed to challenge the Twins, let alone surpass them.

Since we are stuck with Thomas / Contreras through 2006 (unless God really likes us and finds a greater fool to take either or both), the Sox will need to be creative with their precious few remaining dollars to play with.

I wouldn't mind seeing an incentive ladden contract for Loaiza ($1 - $2 mil + large incentives for Innings / Effectiveness). Jon Leiber may also be a lower cost option at SP. I think Pavano is the best FA Pitcher but it looks like he is headed to Boston (with Alyssa Milano).

I think 3B is the Sox biggest need and Lowell would be the best FA but I don't know if JR will allow it. I would leave Uribe, Harris and Konerko alone and go with Lee Rowland and Everett in the OF. Possibly sign Valentine to a cheaper contract (as oppossed to signing the worthless C Guzman, P Reese). Our cathcers are weak but so are the Free Agent options (Varitek being the overpriced (at least for the Sox) exception).

A dream combo of Pavano, Leiber and Lowell would cost the Sox about $26 mil and would be a far better strategy (though wouldn't fly in JR's profit module)than giving up Konerko, Rowand, Garland, what ever else Arizona demands for a $16 mil 41 year old pitcher who broke down in 2003.

I don't think the Sox will have much payroll room in 2005 & possibly 2006. We'll have to think about what could have been - A World Series Champ perhaps - in 1994.

GiveMeSox
11-16-2004, 01:36 AM
Dont call Guzman worthless he might not be a top SS but now way should we take on valentin's .220 BA anyday. Guzman might be no stud but we will hit between .270 and .290 and he will take a walk. THats way better than Valentin. I cant stand his lower and lower BA through his years here, valentin is not coming back. Guzman and Uribe at the top of the order would be two guys who can hit .280, take a walk, bunt, and steal. I wouldn't overpay at all for guzman i would give him something like 3 years 10 mil maybe with a few incentives, if there are better offers for him so be it.

jordan23ventura
11-16-2004, 02:17 AM
Until Kenny learns to dedicate large contract dollars to players in their peak (late 20s / early 30s) and hold on to as many good young players and their 6 years before FA (or Kenny is replaced), the Sox will be hard pressed to challenge the Twins, let alone surpass them.
.
What did you think Garcia was going to get? Nothing?

What do you think Everett is worth if he puts up numbers like he did in '03? Definately 4mil.

And finally, how much of Contreras' contract did you expect the Yanks to eat?


Since we are stuck with Thomas / Contreras through 2006 (unless God really likes us and finds a greater fool to take either or both), the Sox will need to be creative with their precious few remaining dollars to play with.
.
Yeah, look at Hurt's carrer numbers. Look at his AVG, SLG, OBP. You'd have to be a total fool to want that kind of production in your lineup.

The Cheat
11-16-2004, 02:41 AM
you're reading Dugout Dollars wrong... The 2005 salaries are listed to the right of the vertical line. Those to the left are how they count against the salary cap, which is average value of the life of the contract(per CBA).

Konerko makes $8.75M
Lee $8M
Buehrle 5.75M
etc....

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 02:48 AM
What did you think Garcia was going to get? Nothing?

Yeah, look at Hurt's carrer numbers. Look at his AVG, SLG, OBP. You'd have to be a total fool to want that kind of production in your lineup.
1. We gave up the players for three months of Garcia. He is not worth more than the White Sox offered him and he accepted in July weeks after the trade. He stated he wanted to be with his family, ie. Ozzie. Since Ozzie is signed through 2005 (with a 2006 option) this would be the same scenario.

2. As far as Frank Thomas, you do not get his "career numbers" for his current contract with options through 2006 (or his 38th birthday). You get these numbers since 2001 (you can't expect him to perform like his prime years 26 - 32 years of age going forward):

Year / Avg / OBP / SLG

2001 .221 / .316 / .441 - 20 Games
2002 .252 / .361 / .472 - 148 Games
2003 .267 / .390 / .582 - 153 games (which I said was a very good year)
2004 .271 / .434 / .553 - 74 Games (good while it lasted though the future does not look good as he is becoming more injury prone at the ever challenging DH position - a whopping 38 games played at 1B since 2000 and he will be blowing out 37 candles in May of 2004).

So unless you are Frank Thomas (or his ex-wife) you are glad you have over $20 million in options through 2006. I see better uses for the money than an old DH (Varitek, Lowell, Pavano, Martinez, Renteria).

FightingBillini
11-16-2004, 02:54 AM
The fact that close to 30% of the payroll are tied up in mid / late 30s huge ?s could have been avoided with some forward thinking. Add Garcia's $8 mil and we are talking $26 of $64 million or 40% of the payroll for a #2 (slight reach) or solid #3 pitcher, two hitters who should provide 200 games + (hopefully) of above average ball and a pitcher who cannot frind home plate.

Until Kenny learns to dedicate large contract dollars to players in their peak (late 20s / early 30s) and hold on to as many good young players and their 6 years before FA (or Kenny is replaced), the Sox will be hard pressed to challenge the Twins, let alone surpass them.

Since we are stuck with Thomas / Contreras through 2006 (unless God really likes us and finds a greater fool to take either or both), the Sox will need to be creative with their precious few remaining dollars to play with.

I wouldn't mind seeing an incentive ladden contract for Loaiza ($1 - $2 mil + large incentives for Innings / Effectiveness). Jon Leiber may also be a lower cost option at SP. I think Pavano is the best FA Pitcher but it looks like he is headed to Boston (with Alyssa Milano).

I think 3B is the Sox biggest need and Lowell would be the best FA but I don't know if JR will allow it. I would leave Uribe, Harris and Konerko alone and go with Lee Rowland and Everett in the OF. Possibly sign Valentine to a cheaper contract (as oppossed to signing the worthless C Guzman, P Reese). Our cathcers are weak but so are the Free Agent options (Varitek being the overpriced (at least for the Sox) exception).

A dream combo of Pavano, Leiber and Lowell would cost the Sox about $26 mil and would be a far better strategy (though wouldn't fly in JR's profit module)than giving up Konerko, Rowand, Garland, what ever else Arizona demands for a $16 mil 41 year old pitcher who broke down in 2003.

I don't think the Sox will have much payroll room in 2005 & possibly 2006. We'll have to think about what could have been - A World Series Champ perhaps - in 1994.
Wow, you certainly arent making any friends on this board so far. Freddy may be a stretch as a number 1, but he certainly is a number 2 starter. Becuase you personally dislike someone doesnt make them any less of a pitcher. Im sorry that KW didnt make the exact trade you wanted, but Garcia is a damn good pitcher, and we arent overpaying for him. Accept that.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 03:15 AM
Wow, you certainly arent making any friends on this board so far. Freddy may be a stretch as a number 1, but he certainly is a number 2 starter. Becuase you personally dislike someone doesnt make them any less of a pitcher. Im sorry that KW didnt make the exact trade you wanted, but Garcia is a damn good pitcher, and we arent overpaying for him. Accept that.
I have no like or dislike toward Garcia. Some think that The Yankees or someone else would sign him for some ridiculous amount. I doubt that he would have received more than the Sox offer (which I think is fair) during this offseason if he finished 2004 with the Seattle ballclub.

I think he is a #2 or #3 on a championship ballclub. If you plan to go to the World Series with Garcia penciled in for Games 1-4-7 you are in for trouble.

My problem is that we didn't need to make the trade at all. I said it at the moment I heard the trade and evere since.

Freddie Garcia - 2002 - 2004 Seattle (Pitchers Ball Park), 2004 Sox (Launching Pad)
2002 Seattle 4.39 ERA, 223.2 IP, 227 H, 63 BB, 181 K
2003 Seattle 4.51 ERA, 201.1 IP, 196 H, 71 BB, 144 K
2004 Seattle 3.20 ERA, 107 IP, 96 H, 32 BB, 82 K
2004 Chicago 4.46 ERA, 103 IP, 96 H, 32 BB, 102 K

While his K/BB ratio improved to the 3 level of 2002 (2 in 2003) I don't know why a 4.40 ERA is so impressive. He did have a standout season in 2001 though I don't think we can expect that. I expect a solid innings eater with above average stuff who can contribute to the Sox staff. I also like the fact that he is young. He needs to keep his head in the game as it seams he unwinds and gives up the big inning that kills him. If he stays healthy, he should be a solid contributor with the White Sox.

That said, I still think the price was too high in everyday players (two starters who we could have paid $1 mil for both per year for the next few years) for the three months of Garcia we wouldn't have had if we just waited until this offseason to sign. It wasn't like the extension was part of the trade as it was signed weeks after the trade. I think the Sox would have signed him for the same offer. If someone overpaid as they did with Vizquel, they would still have had other options in the FA market and still had their Everyday RF and C without having antoher $4 mil in payroll (Everett) for a player they hope reports in shape and a run of the mill catcher in Ben Davis.

I hope that explains my thoughts. I love the Sox and want them to win a World Series in the next 5- 10 years. Reinsdorf's reign is in God's hands but Kenny Williams has been given many chances and while he was burnt by injuries (David Wells and then F Thomas / Ordonez in 2004), he will need to make a "Lou Brock" trade in the Sox favor to overcome the Ritchie / Koch debacles.

Soxfest
11-16-2004, 11:46 AM
Lowell is gone already signed with FLA




The fact that close to 30% of the payroll are tied up in mid / late 30s huge ?s could have been avoided with some forward thinking. Add Garcia's $8 mil and we are talking $26 of $64 million or 40% of the payroll for a #2 (slight reach) or solid #3 pitcher, two hitters who should provide 200 games + (hopefully) of above average ball and a pitcher who cannot frind home plate.

Until Kenny learns to dedicate large contract dollars to players in their peak (late 20s / early 30s) and hold on to as many good young players and their 6 years before FA (or Kenny is replaced), the Sox will be hard pressed to challenge the Twins, let alone surpass them.

Since we are stuck with Thomas / Contreras through 2006 (unless God really likes us and finds a greater fool to take either or both), the Sox will need to be creative with their precious few remaining dollars to play with.




Lowell is gone already signed with fla




Lowell is gone already resigned with FLA

I wouldn't mind seeing an incentive ladden contract for Loaiza ($1 - $2 mil + large incentives for Innings / Effectiveness). Jon Leiber may also be a lower cost option at SP. I think Pavano is the best FA Pitcher but it looks like he is headed to Boston (with Alyssa Milano).

I think 3B is the Sox biggest need and Lowell would be the best FA but I don't know if JR will allow it. I would leave Uribe, Harris and Konerko alone and go with Lee Rowland and Everett in the OF. Possibly sign Valentine to a cheaper contract (as oppossed to signing the worthless C Guzman, P Reese). Our cathcers are weak but so are the Free Agent options (Varitek being the overpriced (at least for the Sox) exception).

A dream combo of Pavano, Leiber and Lowell would cost the Sox about $26 mil and would be a far better strategy (though wouldn't fly in JR's profit module)than giving up Konerko, Rowand, Garland, what ever else Arizona demands for a $16 mil 41 year old pitcher who broke down in 2003.

I don't think the Sox will have much payroll room in 2005 & possibly 2006. We'll have to think about what could have been - A World Series Champ perhaps - in 1994.

GiveMeSox
11-16-2004, 12:17 PM
you're reading Dugout Dollars wrong... The 2005 salaries are listed to the right of the vertical line. Those to the left are how they count against the salary cap, which is average value of the life of the contract(per CBA).

Konerko makes $8.75M
Lee $8M
Buehrle 5.75M
etc....
Yeah thats what they make as a salary but the # i used is the one that counts against totaly payroll. Its the figure used to total up the payroll on the books. So konerko's 8.75M is @7.67 on the books for this year. How they count against the cap is how they count against payroll. I believe.

nodiggity59
11-16-2004, 01:07 PM
Free Agency = Disaster for the White Sox because SOMEONE will always pay more than us.

Freddy would not be on the team if we hadn't made the trade. We always get outbid, it's that simple.

Deadguy
11-16-2004, 01:43 PM
2. So unless you are Frank Thomas (or his ex-wife) you are glad you have over $20 million in options through 2006. I see better uses for the money than an old DH (Varitek, Lowell, Pavano, Martinez, Renteria).


The White Sox can buy out Thomas' contract for 3.5 million in 2006, which would make Thomas a FA. You must be a JR apologist to blame Thomas' salary for us unable to land the likes of the above, because Thomas does not hinder us from doing anything long-term.

Flight #24
11-16-2004, 01:50 PM
The White Sox can buy out Thomas' contract for 3.5 million in 2006, which would make Thomas a FA. You must be a JR apologist to blame Thomas' salary for us unable to land the likes of the above, because Thomas does not hinder us from doing anything long-term.
Not to mention that by all reports, KW wasn't the guy who redid Frank's deal. I actually look at that as a bad thing because I value Frank and at his 6 or 8 mil, he's a great buy. But since you apparently do not, that would be something FOR KW, not against.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-16-2004, 02:01 PM
Lowell is gone already signed with FLA
You are correct, he changed his mind about his out clause re: the new stadium.

The Free Agents are slim pickings at 3B this year (the Sox are not signing Beltre).

It looks like Crede, Uribe & Harris unless Polanco is signed (please no Guzman) giving them 5 players (counting Wilson Valdez) for the non 1B infield positions.

The Sox will need Polanco and at least one SP & one RP signed which I think they have enough $ for.

GiveMeSox
11-16-2004, 02:04 PM
You are correct, he changed his mind about his out clause re: the new stadium.

The Free Agents are slim pickings at 3B this year (the Sox are not signing Beltre).

It looks like Crede, Uribe & Harris unless Polanco is signed (please no Guzman) giving them 5 players (counting Wilson Valdez) for the non 1B infield positions.

The Sox will need Polanco and at least one SP & one RP signed which I think they have enough $ for. I think thats exactly it. We need another middle infieldier who get lead off, get on base, and play great D. We prefer a SS cuz that gives is great flexibilty on our other postions. With a FA SS we can have Uribe play 2nd and Crede 3rd, Uribe play 3rd and Harris 2nd, etc etc. With a polanco at 2b that puts uribe at SS and crede at 3rd all the time. No real flexibility. So give us your on-base guy, another quality arm in the pen, and another quality arm in the rotation and i think we should compete against the twins. If KW doen't add this necessary pieces then he is fool. No matter what the budget is you can always do something.

Flight #24
11-16-2004, 02:18 PM
The more I think about it, the more I warm up to Corey Koskie. He's put up pretty solid OBPs most years (around .370), plays good D, knows how to play, and would add some of the professional/"grinder" attitude this team needs. Plus, I'd guess he'll come in the 4mil range.

The only problem - Crede. But if they're serious about trying to deal Paulie for pitching/Kendall, then you've opened up 1B and can platoon the Koskie/Crede/Gload trio at 1B & 3B.

Buster Olney on ESPN has an interesting piece on "under the radar" FAs (who immediately move to "over the radar I guess since they're now being written about): Lieber & Koskie sound like excellent fits with the Sox. Total cost: about $9mil. Do that & trade Koney for Kendall+cash to make his cost 6-8mil/yr (PIT gets salary savings in 06-07)and you have a very nice team.

Kendall(C)-Koskie(1B)-Frank(DH)-CLee(LF)-Rowand(CF)-Everett(RF)-Uribe(SS)-Crede(3B)-Harris(2B). Or move Koskie to 3B & insert Gload at 1B. Rotation of Garcia-Buehrle-Lieber-Contreras-Garland.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2004, 02:28 PM
The more I think about it, the more I warm up to Corey Koskie. He's put up pretty solid OBPs most years (around .370), plays good D, knows how to play, and would add some of the professional/"grinder" attitude this team needs. Plus, I'd guess he'll come in the 4mil range.

The only problem - Crede. But if they're serious about trying to deal Paulie for pitching/Kendall, then you've opened up 1B and can platoon the Koskie/Crede/Gload trio at 1B & 3B.

Buster Olney on ESPN has an interesting piece on "under the radar" FAs (who immediately move to "over the radar I guess since they're now being written about): Lieber & Koskie sound like excellent fits with the Sox. Total cost: about $9mil. Do that & trade Koney for Kendall+cash to make his cost 6-8mil/yr (PIT gets salary savings in 06-07)and you have a very nice team.

Kendall(C)-Koskie(1B)-Frank(DH)-CLee(LF)-Rowand(CF)-Everett(RF)-Uribe(SS)-Crede(3B)-Harris(2B). Or move Koskie to 3B & insert Gload at 1B. Rotation of Garcia-Buehrle-Lieber-Contreras-Garland.Koskie is a career .251 hitter. Crede is .239. The differece over 600 AB is 7 extra hits over the season. Big deal. Pass on Koskie.

Look, I understand everyone is frustrated and wants to replace Crede, Uribe, Harris, Davis, Burke, Garland, Contreras, and just about everyone else on this team. But it makes no sense to shell out $5M on a player that's only slightly better. The small difference just won't matter enough to have any real impact. Don't fritter away the money on middling improvements. Instead of replacing three cheap players with three FA players at $5M each, just spend the $15M on Carlos Beltran, or Randy Johnson or Jason Kendall or some other big-impact player.

Flight #24
11-16-2004, 02:34 PM
Koskie is a career .251 hitter. Crede is .239. The differece over 600 AB is 7 extra hits over the season. Big deal. Pass on Koskie.


Huh? I don't think you mean career. Per ESPN, Koskie is a career .280 hitter with a career .373OBP & .836OPS. Crede is a career .259 / .303 / .738.

Your stats are from last year, which was Koskie's worst. It was Crede's too, but his OBP was only down .009 from 2003 and his SLG only down .015, so he was much more in line with his previous stats. Koskie's issue seems to be health (he's missed 20, 31, 44 games the past 3 years), but I'd pay $5mil for the 70 point increase in OBP. His OBP is higher than Vizquel's, and I think you can make an argument that Crede's a bigger hole to fill in the lineup than Willie Harris.

ma-gaga
11-16-2004, 04:29 PM
I made a little spreadsheet here to see how much money the sox have on the books already for 2005. So here are my findings.
Total 05 Payroll = 63.75
That's pretty close to what I have. I'm a little higher with some and a little lower with others:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Lineup%20-%20Magaga%20-%2001.jpg

GiveMeSox
11-17-2004, 04:28 PM
That's pretty close to what I have. I'm a little higher with some and a little lower with others:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/%7Edunca016/Lineup%20-%20Magaga%20-%2001.jpg
How did u get the spreadsheet form into the window. When I copied my original spreadhseet if put it in as some weird and all messed up word thing and i lost my layout completely. I got like weird spaces and names strewn out all over. So how did u get the spreadsheet in the post.

FightingBillini
11-17-2004, 04:55 PM
I think thats exactly it. We need another middle infieldier who get lead off, get on base, and play great D. We prefer a SS cuz that gives is great flexibilty on our other postions. With a FA SS we can have Uribe play 2nd and Crede 3rd, Uribe play 3rd and Harris 2nd, etc etc. With a polanco at 2b that puts uribe at SS and crede at 3rd all the time. No real flexibility. So give us your on-base guy, another quality arm in the pen, and another quality arm in the rotation and i think we should compete against the twins. If KW doen't add this necessary pieces then he is fool. No matter what the budget is you can always do something.
Polanco also plays short and third.