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Shingotime!!
11-14-2004, 10:44 AM
Alright, Jermy Reed will most likly be playing in the majors for the Mariners, most likely as a starter. What type of numbers is he capable of putting up? What about Moorse, is he expected to make a big leage impact. I have a feeling we are going to really really really really regreat trading the three, olivo, moorse, and reed but more so reed.

ondafarm
11-14-2004, 10:52 AM
Reed should put up pretty decent numbers although I expect a slow start his first year. He'll take a bit of time to adjust to major league pitching.

Shingotime!!
11-14-2004, 10:59 AM
What about his stollen base numbers and power. Will he be in center field of will he move over. I have a felling he would be a great leadoff hitter if we would have kept him. Possibly a number 2 hitter.

ondafarm
11-14-2004, 04:24 PM
Both stolen bases and power take some time for new callups to adjust to. The timing of the major league game is faster than even the best AAA games. Power is definately overrated and the Mariners aren't in need of it, they need more high OBP guys.

DrCrawdad
11-15-2004, 09:46 AM
Reed should put up pretty decent numbers although I expect a slow start his first year. He'll take a bit of time to adjust to major league pitching.

Reed was on fire for the Mariners in his September call-up debut.

18 G 58 AB 11 R 23 H 4 2B 0 3B 0 HR 5 RBI 7 BB 4 K 3 SB 1 CS .397 AVG .470 OBP

rdivaldi
11-15-2004, 10:39 AM
Reed should be a very good OBP guy, but don't expect any sort of power numbers or stolen base numbers from him. His power, speed, and defense are very average. I think he'll be a solid #1 or #2 hitter...

broker3d
11-15-2004, 06:57 PM
Luis Gonzalez--------before the steroids.

JackParkman
11-15-2004, 08:15 PM
A slightly better version of Mark Kotsay ... which isn't too bad.

jake27
11-15-2004, 09:46 PM
my reed prediction (if he starts)

.270ish BA
15-20 hrs
60-70 rbis
20-25 sbs

now that i look at it those numbers may be a little high. but i dont think he will ave much pressure in seattle and ill be given evey opportuinity to shine

ondafarm
11-15-2004, 09:48 PM
My predictions:

.290-.300 BA
85 rbi
10-12 HR
20-25 SB

LAWSfan
11-16-2004, 01:29 AM
Reed should be a very good OBP guy, but don't expect any sort of power numbers or stolen base numbers from him. His power, speed, and defense are very average. I think he'll be a solid #1 or #2 hitter...
Yeah I guess he'll beat out Ichiro for the lead off spot.

CHIsoxNation
11-16-2004, 03:15 AM
Ya know, out of any of the guys the Sox have traded away in the past year (except Olivo), Reed has to be the one I am upset with. I have been reading up on this guy for the past couple of years and I figured it was only a matter of time before he would be starting in the outfield, especially after this year when I think everyone had a good idea that Maggs wasn't coming back. This is probably stretching it a bit, but I looked at him as being the next Ted Williams...well close to it at least. I am glad we got Garcia out of the deal, lets just hope the "let's win it now and dish out some prospects" philosophy pays off for Kenny.
:smile:

Hangar18
11-16-2004, 09:32 AM
I have a feeling we are going to really really really really regreat trading the three, olivo, moorse, and reed but more so reed.
All because we wouldnt acknowledge our Pitching problems .....from 2000!!!!!!
We saved $$$$$$$$$$$$$ not signing a pitcher, but we "Paid" for it with Reed ......


:reinsy " But Hangar .........Look at the Money I saved ! "

rdivaldi
11-16-2004, 11:07 AM
All because we wouldnt acknowledge our Pitching problems .....from 2000!!!!!!
We saved $$$$$$$$$$$$$ not signing a pitcher, but we "Paid" for it with Reed ......
I have a feeling that was because we had 4 or 5 of the top 100 prospects in baseball in 2000, all of which were pitchers.

ondafarm
11-16-2004, 06:01 PM
Yeah I guess he'll beat out Ichiro for the lead off spot.
No, but he and Ichiro will work well together batting 1-2.

A. Cavatica
11-16-2004, 07:45 PM
I think Reed will hit .300 next year. Let's say .304 with an OBP around .360, 11 HRs and 16 SB.

munchman33
11-16-2004, 08:39 PM
I have a feeling that was because we had 4 or 5 of the top 100 prospects in baseball in 2000, all of which were pitchers.
Your so called facts are useless when discussing JR....

ondafarm
11-17-2004, 07:17 PM
I think Reed will hit .300 next year. Let's say .304 with an OBP around .360, 11 HRs and 16 SB.
More steals but in the ballyard.

MUsoxfan
11-18-2004, 02:39 AM
We need to end the nonsense of the Reed/Olivo talk. How many of us aren't happy to have Freddy? Not many. I love Freddy. I'd much rather have a proven #1/#2 starter than an unproven outfielder and a catcher that wasn't living up to expectations (even though he was a great guy and I'll miss him for his love for the team). I know we would all have rather acquired Freddy for a bag of balls and an AA backup 2B, but we had to do what we had to do. Reed will be alright if not good. Outfielders aren't hard to come by in the FA market. I think it would be wise to leave it to people on the Seattle message boards to gripe about the progress of Reed rather than us. He's no longer in our system and we're better for it.

rdivaldi
11-18-2004, 12:44 PM
I know we would all have rather acquired Freddy for a bag of balls and an AA backup 2B, but we had to do what we had to do. Reed will be alright if not good. Outfielders aren't hard to come by in the FA market. I think it would be wise to leave it to people on the Seattle message boards to gripe about the progress of Reed rather than us. He's no longer in our system and we're better for it.
I tend to agree. I much rather have an ace pitcher locked up for 3 1/2 years than a couple of "could be's".

This could come back and bite us in the ass, but I think it was a risk worth taking. I'm not a fan of Reed's mechanics, Olivo has trouble hitting right handers, and Morse has really only had one good season (and really isn't doing much in the AFL). Prospects are a crap shoot, we all learned that the hard way after the 2000 season.

California Sox
11-18-2004, 06:38 PM
How many of us aren't happy to have Freddy?
I honestly do not believe he is in the top tier of AL starters. For the same money, I'd rather have Pavano. And we wouldn't have had to give up players to get him.

MUsoxfan
11-18-2004, 07:18 PM
I honestly do not believe he is in the top tier of AL starters. For the same money, I'd rather have Pavano. And we wouldn't have had to give up players to get him.I haven't seen a team just hand a player over to another team in the middle of a season without some sort of payment (cash, players, both). The Sox were making a playoff run last year when the Garcia deal was made. Pavano's name was not being dangled, and Garcia was the best of what's out there. That being said, we had to make a deal. The Yanks wanted him along with other teams. We traded an average catcher and a guy that played zero major league games (unproven player). That's not that high of a price to pay. Now there's rumors that Seattle will start him next year. That's fine, they're not a good team and they need to use their best available option. Would Jeremy Reed be starting on 75% of ML rosters right now? There's not a chance. In the meantime, we locked up what I feel is a pretty darn good pitcher for the next three years in a time when we're dying to have pitchers. If the Sox didn't deal for a pitcher during the season, you'd probably be the guy complaining that we didn't do enough. Nothing in life, especially baseball, is free. Everything comes with a price. I happen to feel Garcia came at a low price.

ondafarm
11-18-2004, 07:50 PM
I honestly do not believe he is in the top tier of AL starters. For the same money, I'd rather have Pavano. And we wouldn't have had to give up players to get him.
I think we overpaid for Garcia. I would rather have given up Mags than Reed.

MUsoxfan
11-18-2004, 11:31 PM
I think we overpaid for Garcia. I would rather have given up Mags than Reed.

Wow. Mags wouldn't have come back anyway. He's been a lost cause for months

ondafarm
11-19-2004, 07:00 AM
Wow. Mags wouldn't have come back anyway. He's been a lost cause for months
Exactamundo!!

MUsoxfan
11-20-2004, 05:16 PM
Exactamundo!!
Yeah...you're right. I just read that last thing I posted and I don't know what I was thinking. I must have been overtired or something. Yikes...

dcb33
11-21-2004, 12:05 AM
It's always a double edged sword with armchair GM's. If KW makes the trade, he's stupid for trading an unproven outfielder and an underperforming catcher for an outstanding pitcher to make a run at the playoffs. If KW doesn't make the trade, he's nothing but a quitter who waves the white flag too soon and a tool of JR's pocketbook for not getting the pitching the Sox needed to make a run at the division...
I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel much more comforatable about 2005 knowing that Freddy is on the roster than I would if we had Olivo, Reed, and a huge hole at his spot in the rotation.

ondafarm
11-21-2004, 02:51 AM
It's always a double edged sword with armchair GM's. If KW makes the trade, he's stupid for trading an unproven outfielder and an underperforming catcher for an outstanding pitcher to make a run at the playoffs. If KW doesn't make the trade, he's nothing but a quitter who waves the white flag too soon and a tool of JR's pocketbook for not getting the pitching the Sox needed to make a run at the division...
I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel much more comforatable about 2005 knowing that Freddy is on the roster than I would if we had Olivo, Reed, and a huge hole at his spot in the rotation.
Well, I personally thought the trade was a good idea, but I would have traded Mags instead of Reed.

dcb33
11-21-2004, 12:13 PM
Well, I personally thought the trade was a good idea, but I would have traded Mags instead of Reed.You proved my point. When we traded for Garcia, Maggs was fully expected by everyone to be back on the field and contributing within a couple weeks, and the severity of his injury was not yet known. At the time we were also gearing up to make a run at the division. I'm sure most here would've been crying for KW's head had we traded away our best player in the middle of the playoff race.

Seattle wasn't looking for an expensive right fielder they knew was going to be a free agent at the end of the season. They were looking to dump salary and get prospects to build for the future. Trades are a two way street- both teams have to agree.

Hindsight is 20/20

ondafarm
11-21-2004, 02:05 PM
Hindsight is 20/20
Afraid I have been saying that since the day this trade was announced.

MisterB
11-21-2004, 03:44 PM
Two points:

1) You can't trade players on the DL. Maggs was placed there 4 days before the Garcia deal.

2) Even the initial reports at the time Maggs went on the DL that second time estimated at least an 8 week stay. Frank was still active and wouldn't go back on the DL until 10 days after the Garcia deal.

dcb33
11-21-2004, 05:19 PM
Afraid I have been saying that since the day this trade was announced.
Too bad you disregarded the other comments I made that blew your argument up....

ondafarm
11-21-2004, 06:31 PM
Too bad you disregarded the other comments I made that blew your argument up....
Didn't disregard, was ignoring.

As for an arguement, anybody even Mags would have been preferable.

Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.

dcb33
11-21-2004, 06:42 PM
Didn't disregard, was ignoring.

As for an arguement, anybody even Mags would have been preferable.

Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.
But you can't ignore those points. First of all, you can't trade someone on the DL, and second, Seattle would've had to agree to the trade, which they would not have done. When the deal went down, Seattle was already out of contention and not looking for someone to help put them over the top. They were done. They wanted to start unloading high priced veterans and older players for prospects such as Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo. Until these players do well, and considering most recent "Top Sox Prospects" have not, I'm not going to criticize the trade.
To get a player of Garcia's calibur, you have to give up players of value.

rdivaldi
11-22-2004, 10:47 AM
Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.
What made made Reed untouchable? His .270 average at the time? His mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

Besides his hustle and ability to take walks, the kid really isn't anything special. Maybe he'll blossom into a great leadoff man or maybe he won't. But I'd much rather have a proven frontline pitcher than a "maybe".

JRIG
11-22-2004, 11:02 AM
Two points:

1) You can't trade players on the DL. Maggs was placed there 4 days before the Garcia deal.


Yes you can. It's just not done very often.

MisterB
11-22-2004, 12:00 PM
Yes you can. It's just not done very often.
I stand corrected.

The point remains: why on earth would Seattle trade for someone who was on the DL, was due $7M for what even under the best scenario would have been about 1 month of actual playing time, and would be a FA at the end of the season? No way that deal gets done.

ondafarm
11-22-2004, 05:12 PM
What made made Reed untouchable? His .270 average at the time? His mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

Besides his hustle and ability to take walks, the kid really isn't anything special. Maybe he'll blossom into a great leadoff man or maybe he won't. But I'd much rather have a proven frontline pitcher than a "maybe".
Have you seen him play? I sat between two scouts for Japanese teams for one of his games this past year and they both said he was the best player on the field.

Mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

What is your definition of good speed, good defense and a good arm?

The same scouts, off the cuff, rated his speed just above, arm just below and defense equal to Ichiro at the same age.

Silly Maggs
11-24-2004, 12:20 PM
:gulp: No, but he and Ichiro will work well together batting 1-2.

rdivaldi
11-29-2004, 11:09 AM
Have you seen him play? I sat between two scouts for Japanese teams for one of his games this past year and they both said he was the best player on the field.

Mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

What is your definition of good speed, good defense and a good arm?

The same scouts, off the cuff, rated his speed just above, arm just below and defense equal to Ichiro at the same age.
Of course I've seen him play, and needless to say I was not impressed at all. He scuffled through ST and his time at Charlotte. Who was on the field when they said he was the best player, Borchard?

I love the kid's presence at the plate, but I seriously doubt he will ever hit for any sort of power or be much of a base stealer.

MHOUSE
12-19-2004, 05:34 PM
How quickly we forget that we got Freddy Garcia in this trade. He is one of the best starters in the AL and was having a great season at the time. He pitched well for us down the stretch and we signed him to a very reasonable extension especially in comparison to what guys like Pavano, Wright, and Clement got.

You would rather have Pavano for 4 years $40 million? You're crazy. Pavano had ONE breakout season! Why would you rather have overpaid for that and kept Jeremy Reed than guaranteed yourself Garcia for 3 years especially after his success over the previous years? I would do that trade over again every time. Frontline pitching is a lot harder to come by than unproven outfield prospects.

Shingotime!!
12-19-2004, 06:23 PM
He pitched well for us down the stretch and we signed him to a very reasonable extension especially in comparison to what guys like Pavano, Wright, and Clement got.
All i remember was a bloated era and a couple horrible starts which resulted in him going on the DL and missing the next 2 starts.:supernana: :supernana: :supernana: :supernana: :supernana: :supernana: