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guillen4life13
11-12-2004, 10:10 AM
What type of performance are you expecting from him for 2005?

I'm leaning towards a semi-breakout (.280, 25 HR, 80 RBI) type season from him, and I really would be against trading him unless it's a flat out steal.

nodiggity59
11-12-2004, 10:12 AM
What type of performance are you expecting from him for 2005?

I'm leaning towards a semi-breakout (.280, 25 HR, 80 RBI) type season from him, and I really would be against trading him unless it's a flat out steal.
I've been leaning for two years with regards to Crede.

eshunn2001
11-12-2004, 10:22 AM
I am going with the good old Beltre breakout year. Crede will be huge............ Yeah, I think I am delusional to.

SSN721
11-12-2004, 10:28 AM
I cant see any better then a marginal breakout, but I hope I am wrong.

BigEdWalsh
11-12-2004, 10:30 AM
:?:
I went with marginal breakout and I think that's being quite optimistic. Every year Crede has about 1 good month. Will he ever get it all together and be a .280-.300 hitter? I have my doubts, but I sure hope so.

Nellie_Fox
11-12-2004, 10:32 AM
I think you've seen what you're going to see from Crede. I think he's a drag on the lineup in an offensive position.

But then again, what do I know. I've been wrong as often as I've been right about players.

JRIG
11-12-2004, 10:33 AM
Considering he's been declining for the past three years...I'll say more of the same.

nitetrain8601
11-12-2004, 02:30 PM
semi breakout

Mohoney
11-12-2004, 06:01 PM
:?:
I went with marginal breakout and I think that's being quite optimistic. Every year Crede has about 1 good month. Will he ever get it all together and be a .280-.300 hitter? I have my doubts, but I sure hope so.
I don't really need .280+ from Crede if he's batting 7th. I just need these 3 things:

1 Just give me .250+ with 85+ RBIs.

2 Work counts better, lay off terrible pitches, and work the OBP to .333+ with more walks.

3 Cut WAY down on the Ks and GIDPs.

I would much rather have the guy be a good SITUATIONAL hitter than a good pure hitter that is terrible in the clutch, and he did have quite a few clutch hits last season, leading me to believe that there are signs of life.

If I can get a full season of good situational hitting and good glove work from 3B this year, I'll be a happy man. If I can get an AVG of .285+, an OBP of .350+, 85+ runs scored, a whopping 20+ sacrifice hits, and good glove work from my SS too, I'm an even happier man.

The more I think about it, the more I like this right side of the infield.

beckett21
11-12-2004, 06:18 PM
I think you've seen what you're going to see from Crede. I think he's a drag on the lineup in an offensive position.

Agreed, Professor.

I'm done waiting for this guy. Same 'ol, same 'ol. :rolleyes:

OurBitchinMinny
11-12-2004, 07:25 PM
:?:
I went with marginal breakout and I think that's being quite optimistic. Every year Crede has about 1 good month. Will he ever get it all together and be a .280-.300 hitter? I have my doubts, but I sure hope so.
sure he will. The first year after the sox trade him. Its white sox karma

RKMeibalane
11-12-2004, 08:17 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think Crede is going to get any better. His biggest problem is not his talent, but his head. Several people on this board talked about how he never listens to what Greg Walker or any Sox veterans (Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, etc.) tell him about how to improve as a hitter. Players like this rarely show any significant improvement during the course of their careers.

Raul Mondesi is another example, if you're looking for a comparison. Mondesi came up with the Dodgers in 1993, joining a team that featured young stars such as Mike Piazza and Eric Karros, as well as veteran players like Brett Butler and Tim Wallach. Mondesi didn't listen to any of them, and look what's become of him. The Pirates didn't want him- of course, the fact that he flat out quit on them didn't help matters. :cool:

jordan23ventura
11-13-2004, 03:07 AM
Unfortunately, I don't think Crede is going to get any better. His biggest problem is not his talent, but his head. Several people on this board talked about how he never listens to what Greg Walker or any Sox veterans (Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, etc.) tell him about how to improve as a hitter. Players like this rarely show any significant improvement during the course of their careers.

Raul Mondesi is another example, if you're looking for a comparison. Mondesi came up with the Dodgers in 1993, joining a team that featured young stars such as Mike Piazza and Eric Karros, as well as veteran players like Brett Butler and Tim Wallach. Mondesi didn't listen to any of them, and look what's become of him. The Pirates didn't want him- of course, the fact that he flat out quit on them didn't help matters. :cool:
I see what you're saying but Mondesi is an all-around bag of flaming crap. I hope Crede improves and takes some good advice, even if it means having Greg Walker and Tony Robbins sleeping at the foot of his bed the whole offseason.

Jabroni
11-13-2004, 03:34 AM
It's sad that Uribe can hit (.283, 23, 74) in his first season with us but we are praying that Crede can hit (.280, 25, 80) in his 6th season with us. :whiner:

PaleHoseGeorge
11-13-2004, 07:50 AM
It's sad that Uribe can hit (.283, 23, 74) in his first season with us but we are praying that Crede can hit (.280, 25, 80) in his 6th season with us. :whiner: Yes, indeed. Thank you for outlining precisely what makes the White Sox perennial also-rans (i.e. losers). We get lucky with a pick up like Juan Uribe. He exceeds all our expectations and our only hope is that he continues to shine.

Meanwhile, here is Joe Crede. This is the guy Ron Schueler and Jerry Reinsdorf claimed made Robin Ventura prohibitively expensive and foolish to keep. That was back in 1998! A couple of bad breaks delayed his arrival but still it has been six seasons and the guy can only be described as a mediocre thirdbasemen.

So what do the Sox do? Just keep on hoping he starts doing anything at all... now seven years later... and the team keeps losing while the rest of us wait. Crede would have been benched or traded years ago on a team like the Cardinals, Braves, or (gasp!) the Twins!

Those are playoff teams. See the difference?

I wrote about this very topic in my last column. It's been going on for decades and I name a bunch of everyday Sox ballplayers from the past to illustrate the point. This franchise simply doesn't take mediocrity as an affront to the fans' championship aspirations. Clearly quite a few of the fans don't see it as an affront either. That's what is really sad.
:(:

Flight #24
11-13-2004, 08:22 AM
I've been leaning for two years with regards to Crede.
Unfortunately, I think any more leaning on him is likely to result in you toppling over.

Unlikely IMO that he'll be the all-star/Ventura-esque player once touted. But if he can be a decent hitter (.260/25HR/85-100RBI) and play good D, that'll be fine as long as you have stars elsewhere. You don't need all-stars at every position. Cheap & solid vets can be fine in a couple of spots in the lineup.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-13-2004, 08:39 AM
Unfortunately, I think any more leaning on him is likely to result in you toppling over.

Unlikely IMO that he'll be the all-star/Ventura-esque player once touted. But if he can be a decent hitter (.260/25HR/85-100RBI) and play good D, that'll be fine as long as you have stars elsewhere. You don't need all-stars at every position. Cheap & solid vets can be fine in a couple of spots in the lineup.
And your reasoning has anything to do with the Chicago White Sox in what way? We're downgrading at our #4 line up position, and we'll be damned lucky if the team bothers to fill more than a mere handful of the swiss cheese set of holes left over from 2004 either. That's the team that imploded in August and was buried by that playoff juggernaut, the mighty Minnesota Twins. They have soooo many advantages over the Sox for acquiring and keeping talent...

:?:

Nick@Nite
11-13-2004, 08:50 AM
Sox players with big loopy swings wear me out :(: .

Flight #24
11-13-2004, 09:03 AM
And your reasoning has anything to do with the Chicago White Sox in what way? We're downgrading at our #4 line up position, and we'll be damned lucky if the team bothers to fill more than a mere handful of the swiss cheese set of holes left over from 2004 either. That's the team that imploded in August and was buried by that playoff juggernaut, the mighty Minnesota Twins. They have soooo many advantages over the Sox for acquiring and keeping talent...

:?:Which is why I specifically said
" that'll be fine as long as you have stars elsewhere.". The implication being that if they don't have stars elsewhere (or if Crede doesn't improve) then they can't get by with him at 3B.

It seems the difference is based on our expectations of what the team will do in the offseason in terms of acquiring talent. I have more faith than you do (apparently). Maybe it's just the :gulp: .

JRIG
11-13-2004, 09:09 AM
Unfortunately, I think any more leaning on him is likely to result in you toppling over.

Unlikely IMO that he'll be the all-star/Ventura-esque player once touted. But if he can be a decent hitter (.260/25HR/85-100RBI) and play good D, that'll be fine as long as you have stars elsewhere. You don't need all-stars at every position. Cheap & solid vets can be fine in a couple of spots in the lineup.
Take a look a Ventura's stats sometime. 260/25/95 is better than Robin did in a majority of seasons. If Crede can do that, he will be an All-Star. But he won't so it doersn't matter much.

Flight #24
11-13-2004, 09:21 AM
Take a look a Ventura's stats sometime. 260/25/95 is better than Robin did in a majority of seasons. If Crede can do that, he will be an All-Star. But he won't so it doersn't matter much.
Robin had better stats in some of his seasons, I doubt Crede will ever hit better than that (and there's doubt as to whether he'll even hit that well)

JRIG
11-13-2004, 09:24 AM
Geez, make what I thought was an innocent comment!:cool:

Allow me to be clear. I doubt Crede will be an all-star, Ventura-caliber player. But if he hits .265//25 (which would be worse than Ventura) AND the Sox aren't relying on him as a core offensive component, I think the team can be successful.
Well, yeah, if someone...anyone...hits 265/25 and you weren't counting on him to add any offense at all...you're in good shape. :smile:

Flight #24
11-13-2004, 04:24 PM
Well, yeah, if someone...anyone...hits 265/25 and you weren't counting on him to add any offense at all...you're in good shape. :smile:

Well, considering that he hit .240/21/69 and people think he's a bum, and since there were 11 3Bs in MLB who hit over .265/25 last year, I'd say that those would be serviceable but not really great #s.

Whitesox029
11-13-2004, 05:01 PM
It all depends:
If he is wearing a White Sox uniform, I would select "same as 2004."
If he is wearing any other uniform, I would select either "Semi-breakout or all-out breakout."

bc2k
11-14-2004, 07:16 AM
I'm not worried that Crede will burn the Sox with another team. I'd be more worried about LTP breaking out after he leaves the Sox.

I remember last Spring Training when Crede showed up 20 pounds heavier and almost all posters in that thread commented on how that's a sign Crede will dominate in 2004. "Crede's going to hit 40 home runs. blaaaaaa."

Does anyone know if Crede is taking his career seriously and playing winter ball?

Just trade him to KC so I don't ever have to see him in a Sox uniform any more.