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View Full Version : Why not Johnson AND Mulder???


Champs2004
11-11-2004, 10:16 AM
Before any of you grill me on this, why not do these following moves:
Trade Konerko/Crash for Johnson
Trade Lee/Garland for Mulder
Sign Dye
Bring up Anderson a year early
Sign Percival

Lineup
2B Uribe
SS Vizquel (assuming it's already done)
RF Dye
DH Thomas
LF Everett
3B Crede
1B Gload
CF Anderson
C Burke/Davis

Rotation
Johnson
Mulder
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras

Bullpen
Bajenaru
Adkins
Cotts
Politte
Shingo
Marte
Percival

90-95 win team if you ask me. especially if Dye hits in front of Frank

calderon
11-11-2004, 10:25 AM
What happened to Rowand???

MRKARNO
11-11-2004, 10:33 AM
That's an awesome rotation, but that lineup is mediocre at best and the bullpen problem has not been addressed

Ol' No. 2
11-11-2004, 10:40 AM
That's an awesome rotation, but that lineup is mediocre at best and the bullpen problem has not been addressedThat rotation better be awesome, because they're going to have to win a lot of 1-0 games.

kittle42
11-11-2004, 10:41 AM
Ugh.

:gulp:

lowesox
11-11-2004, 11:14 AM
I think that looks like a fabulous team. Although, I do think you're underestimating what Arizona would want for RJ, and what Oakland would want for Mulder. Still though, I think that would be a killer team without the RJ trade. IF the sox could make something happen for Mulder, Sign Dye, a good SS and PErcival - well, that would be pretty good.

I even think the lineup could look good with a few minor tweaks.

Over By There
11-11-2004, 11:57 AM
I don't know if the salaries work out, but if they did, I would be really excited for that team. What a rotation. I think it would be neat to watch a team that was oriented so differently (i.e., towards pitching) than what we're used to.

The offensive lineup doesn't worry me so much as the 'pen. Pretty strong at the back end, but things could be ugly if we're counting on Bajenaru, Adkins, Cotts and Pollitte much. Then again, with that rotation, maybe middle relief is less of an issue.

jlh0023
11-11-2004, 11:59 AM
why not do that, becasue it would be stupid. we have 4 pitchers good enough for the rotation, we can't trade for two more all stars, we'd have no hitting left. plus if we wanted to orient the team towards pitching more of the moves would be for bullpen, thats where our pitchings weakest, even with percival

rmusacch
11-11-2004, 12:10 PM
What happened to Rowand???
Crash = Rowand.

lowesox
11-11-2004, 12:18 PM
why not do that, becasue it would be stupid. we have 4 pitchers good enough for the rotation, we can't trade for two more all stars, we'd have no hitting left. plus if we wanted to orient the team towards pitching more of the moves would be for bullpen, thats where our pitchings weakest, even with percival
In case you didn't notice, our strong offence got us absolutely no where last year. This team needs a new approach. Especially since the white sox offence the last few years has been VERY hit or miss. In fact, I would say it's our offence that has brought us down more than the pitching. Let's face it guys: big name power hitters are only one ingredient of what makes a good lineup. With a good pitching staff, all we need are guys who can get on base, steal and bunt. And usually, these players are very affordable.

Also, keep in mind that if we signed Percival we'd have a setup one-two punch of Marte and Shingo. Adkins and Politte both pitched pretty well last year. And Cotts, Wunsh and Bejanaru are wild-cards. Not to mention, Kenny usually signs a few veterans to minor league deals to create depth. I think that's the making of a pretty good BP.

Ol' No. 2
11-11-2004, 12:23 PM
In case you didn't notice, our strong offence got us absolutely no where last year. This team needs a new approach. Especially since the white sox offence the last few years has been VERY hit or miss. In fact, I would say it's our offence that has brought us down more than the pitching. Let's face it guys: big name power hitters are only one ingredient of what makes a good lineup. With a good pitching staff, all we need are guys who can get on base, steal and bunt. And usually, these players are very affordable.

Also, keep in mind that if we signed Percival we'd have a setup one-two punch of Marte and Shingo. Adkins and Politte both pitched pretty well last year. And Cotts, Wunsh and Bejanaru are wild-cards. Not to mention, Kenny usually signs a few veterans to minor league deals to create depth. I think that's the making of a pretty good BP.And in case you didn't notice, the Dodgers had far and away the best pitching staff in MLB in 2003 and it got THEM absolutely nowhere because they couldn't score a run if you spotted them a runner on third every inning. You need balance.

JRIG
11-11-2004, 12:29 PM
And in case you didn't notice, the Dodgers had far and away the best pitching staff in MLB in 2003 and it got THEM absolutely nowhere because they couldn't score a run if you spotted them a runner on third every inning. You need balance.
The lineup presented in this thread would be god-awful. 70 win-calibur even if they had the best pitching staff in baseball.

Jjav829
11-11-2004, 12:29 PM
Before any of you grill me on this, why not do these following moves:
Trade Konerko/Crash for Johnson
Trade Lee/Garland for Mulder
Sign Dye
Bring up Anderson a year early
Sign Percival

Lineup
2B Uribe
SS Vizquel (assuming it's already done)
RF Dye
DH Thomas
LF Everett
3B Crede
1B Gload
CF Anderson
C Burke/Davis

Rotation
Johnson
Mulder
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras

Bullpen
Bajenaru
Adkins
Cotts
Politte
Shingo
Marte
Percival

90-95 win team if you ask me. especially if Dye hits in front of FrankSo the heart of our lineup would be composed of:
3.) An injury prone 31 year old outfielder who hasn't been the same since breaking his leg in the 2001 playoffs.
4.) A 36 year old DH (will turn 37 two months into the season) who is questionable to start the season because of a major foot injury (and resulting surgery).
5.) An injury prone 33 year old should be DH who wasn't in shape all of last year.
6.) A 26 year old 3rd baseman who hasn't shown the ability to consistently produce throughout a full season.

As Ol' No. 2 said, those pitchers better dominate because there sure as hell will be a lot of games where the offense scores 3 or fewer runs. This team needs some offense. If we trade Konerko AND Lee, there better be another big bat joining this team, be it signing Beltran or trading for a guy like Huff.

SOXSINCE'70
11-11-2004, 01:22 PM
Before any of you grill me on this, why not do these following moves:
Trade Konerko/Crash for Johnson
Trade Lee/Garland for Mulder
Sign Dye
Bring up Anderson a year early
Sign Percival

Lineup
2B Uribe
SS Vizquel (assuming it's already done)
RF Dye
DH Thomas
LF Everett
3B Crede
1B Gload
CF Anderson
C Burke/Davis

Rotation
Johnson
Mulder
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras

Bullpen
Bajenaru
Adkins
Cotts
Politte
Shingo
Marte
Percival

90-95 win team if you ask me. especially if Dye hits in front of FrankYou do remember one of the majority owners on this team,don't you??
The one who said of the 1994 baseball strike "I'm a dove now,but I
could be a hawk later".The one who said the '97 team had no chance of catching the Tribe,even though they were only 2 1/2 games out at
the ASB.The one who continues to alienate the slimming fanbase
by calling it a "sCrUBS town".

THAT'S WHY NOT JOHNSON AND MULDER!!:angry: :angry:

santo=dorf
11-11-2004, 01:27 PM
Here's 3 reasons:

:reinsy:reinsy:reinsy
"How much money are we spending on the starting rotation again?"

OEO Magglio
11-11-2004, 01:44 PM
That's an awesome rotation, but that lineup is mediocre at best and the bullpen problem has not been addressed
I think he addressed the bullpen by adding percival, however like everyone said that lineup would be pretty bad, even with that dominating pitching you have to hit a little bit.

Champs2004
11-11-2004, 03:25 PM
Allow me to defend myself here. with this lineup i'm assuming that Crede has his stuff together. Crede at his full abilities is a very good bat. As for Dye, hitting behind a healthy Frank would only benefit him, in addition to having Uribe and Vizquel in front of him, that makes sure that Dye has a lot of runners to move over or score.

wdelaney72
11-11-2004, 03:44 PM
I'll believe in Joe Crede when he gives me a reason to, and the 2nd half of 2003 isn't good enough.

This lineup is just too risky, especially when we don't know what kind of condition Everett and Frank will be in next year.

Allow me to defend myself here. with this lineup i'm assuming that Crede has his stuff together. Crede at his full abilities is a very good bat. As for Dye, hitting behind a healthy Frank would only benefit him, in addition to having Uribe and Vizquel in front of him, that makes sure that Dye has a lot of runners to move over or score.

Cowch44
11-11-2004, 05:04 PM
Why would you want to trade rowand?

MHOUSE
11-11-2004, 09:50 PM
Our two best offensive players are Paulie and Lee. I could see dealing Paulie at his highest value and not risking another regression like 2003, but dealing them both to get MORE starting pitching seems stupid. I think a full season with Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Contreras will be more than enough if we can tweak our offense to be more consistent. I think we can add a decent, veteran 5th starter for a lot cheaper and without a trade than acquiring Rand Johnson or Johnson AND another allstar. The suggested offense at the start of this thread would be pretty bad and only a few injuries from being quite awful. I think if we stick to our guns with the current rotation and spend money on the bullpen, bench, and top of the order then we would be in better shape than acquiring another star pitcher at all costs.

nitetrain8601
11-11-2004, 11:30 PM
What about Clemens, RJ, Santana, Schilling and Pedro???

and for the bullpen:
Frankie Rodriguez
Brad Lidge
Joe Nathan
Keith Foulke
Armando Benitez
Keith Foulke

guillen4life13
11-11-2004, 11:57 PM
My biggest qualm: Brian Anderson is not ready for the majors yet.


After about 3 years of complete Crash bashing, the man has finally proven himself. I don't want to see a ChiSox outfield that does not have Aaron Rowand in it, unless Rowand is replaced by Carlos Beltran (and even then... the reality is Beltran eats up salary better spent on other club necessities).

Dye is injury prone, and never really was a great producer (good, not great). A seasonal average of .272 and OBP of .334 is not going to fulfil what we need, given the price and roster spot he will take up. Last year, his salary was 11.66 million dollars. I seriously doubt he will accept an offer of any less than 8 mil/year. In other words, he's just not worth it. I feel happy with the outfield as it is, and the only position I have a big worry about is catcher, seeing as SS is all but covered now, with Vizquel.

I would not mind the Sox getting Jason Varitek on a 6-7mil/year deal. He's a good hitter, and has great experience with great pitching staffs. He wouldn't be quite the mentor that Alomar was, but he should more than make up for that with his offensive production.

I'd really like to see Ozzie move Frank back to 1st base. That gives lots of flexibility in the DH slot in case (hopefully) Paul Konerko gets traded away. Then they can put Carl Everett in the DH slot, put Gload as a reserve 1B/OF in case of injury (which is very possible).

They can trade Konerko for a RF/CF, and that would set the team up. The Marlins could use a 1B, and the Sox could use Juan Pierre. The Sox can eat a little of Konerko's salary, and here's your lineup:

Pierre
Vizquel
Thomas
Everett
Lee
Varitek
Rowand
Crede
Uribe


Then, they could sign Miguel Cairo as a reserve, and maybe even Rusty Greer (low-risk, high return possibility), and your bench is:

Harris
Cairo
Greer
Burke/Davis



The Sox could sign someone like John Lieber, Jaret Wright, or (last resort) David Wells, and their rotation would be:

Garcia
Buehrle
Lieber/Wells/Wright
Garland
Contreras

The bullpen, while in need of some work, has lots of tools (especially with all the would-be 5th starters who aren't making it). There are factors like Dan Wright, Felix Diaz, Jason Grilli, Josh Stewart, Arnie Munoz, Neal Cotts, etc. This part of the equation will largely depend on Spring Training performances, but it is almost certain that the pen will include:

Shingo
Marte
Politte



Possible additions to the pen that I would like to see are:
Ramiro Mendoza
Ron Villone (could battle for a rotation spot)
Rick Bottalico
Steve Kline (who I think should be a top priority)
Antonio Osuna
Paul Shuey (if healthy)
Scott Williamson


This pen would be awesome:

Marte
Kline
Williamson
Takatsu
Politte
Villone
One of the many younger guys.

The additions I have detailed should not be too expensive, and they would probably keep the payroll at around $75 million or less, methinks (unless I know nothing about this topic).

jordan23ventura
11-12-2004, 12:55 AM
In case you didn't notice, our strong offence got us absolutely no where last year. This team needs a new approach. Especially since the white sox offence the last few years has been VERY hit or miss. In fact, I would say it's our offence that has brought us down more than the pitching. Let's face it guys: big name power hitters are only one ingredient of what makes a good lineup. With a good pitching staff, all we need are guys who can get on base, steal and bunt. And usually, these players are very affordable.
Did you watch the games last year by any chance?

If you did, you would realize that we DIDN'T have a strong offense last year. Thomas and Maggs, the core of the team, were out.

I agree that this team needs to get better at moving runners over, getting home RISP w/ less than two outs, bunting, stealing bases, etc., but it is completely moronic to trade away ALL of our power.

The lineup proposed in this thread would be arguably the most self-defeating idea the Sox organization has ever produced. While 3-run HR's are flying out left and right, (it's USCF remember) do you really think we can BUNT our way back into the game? Every team that hopes to get to the playoffs needs an above average 3-4-5. Right now as things stand, we have Lee-Thomas-Konerko, Thomas-Lee-Konerko, however you want to arrange it. I can guarantee you that Carl Everett will not outperform any one of those guys, even if he gets back on track. So, the way I see it is we are already taking a big hit by just trading one of the three. Two of the three would be nothing short of asking to be laughed at.

DSpivack
11-12-2004, 02:29 AM
Mulder and Randy on the same team seems very possible.

If you are the New York Yankees.

PaleHoseFan
11-12-2004, 09:29 AM
Does anyone here think that Pavano would be a good addition to our starting rotation?