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WhiteSoxFan84
11-09-2004, 01:45 PM
Just heard the 1:40PM ESPN Radio Sportscenter (local), and they said that the White Sox are rumored to be interested in Pirates catcher Jason Kendall and free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye.

I'd love Kendall to come here as long as he can be catching to Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, and Randy Johnson. He's a solid leadoff man who can probably get the job done better than Aaron Rowand (would be a great # 2 or even a # 5 hitter) and Wille Harris (if he can learn how to bunt and bunt for a hit, he would be a solid # 2).

Dye I'm neutral on. I kind of like him at times and he doesn't wow me at times.

I should also add on that on The Score updates they are mentioning that neither the Cubs or Sox are expected to make any moves during the GM meetings this week. At least no blockbuster deals.

Tekijawa
11-09-2004, 01:57 PM
Here's our line up so far for next year:

SS Visquel
C Kendall
LF Dye
CF Beltran
DH Frank
RF Rowand
2b Uribe
3b Crede
1b Gload

Rotation:
Randy Johnson
Mark Mulder
Mark Buehrly
Freddy Garcia
Jon Garland

Bullpen

Cotts
Adkins
Contreras
Shingo

Off season rumors are really fun!

1917
11-09-2004, 01:58 PM
Doesn't Kendall have a huge salary that we would have to take on? And that huge salary is the reason he's been a Pirate for so long. because nobody can afford him?

gosox41
11-09-2004, 02:01 PM
Doesn't Kendall have a huge salary that we would have to take on? And that huge salary is the reason he's been a Pirate for so long. because nobody can afford him?
Also, I thought Kendall wanted to be traded only to the west coast.

I'm all for getting him...as long as Pittsburgh eats some of his salary.


Bob

Justafan
11-09-2004, 02:03 PM
Dye is a a watered down version of Ordonez, not a big move at all IMO. Kendall is interesting, but he has no power and is not a good defensive catcher at all. He does get on base, but that is about it.

Irishsox1
11-09-2004, 02:06 PM
Kendall makes sense baseball wise. Good lead off hitter, has speed and can catch. Also, the Sox just dumped Sandy, so they are in the market for a catcher. His salary is a different story, Kendall is to make $10.0 M in '05, $11.0 M in '06 & $13.0 M in '07. He also has a complete no-trade clause. So, wait and see, but it doesn't look good.

Mickster
11-09-2004, 02:08 PM
Dye is a a watered down version of Ordonez, not a big move at all IMO. Kendall is interesting, but he has no power and is not a good defensive catcher at all. He does get on base, but that is about it.
Levine mentioned the the interest in Kendall late last week, as well. I doubt that it has any merit, though. Even if Pittsburgh agrees to eat 1/2 of his salary, which they have been rumored to do in the past, it eats most of the $5-10Mil of "available" salary that is to be spent *speculative*....

Flight #24
11-09-2004, 02:09 PM
Here's our line up so far for next year:

SS Visquel
C Kendall
LF Dye
CF Beltran
DH Frank
RF Rowand
2b Uribe
3b Crede
1b Gload

Rotation:
Randy Johnson
Mark Mulder
Mark Buehrly
Freddy Garcia
Jon Garland

Bullpen

Cotts
Adkins
Contreras
Shingo

Off season rumors are really fun!
I'm sorry, but your scenario is totally unrealistic. All the trade rumors include us sending Garland over, how can we keep him?

Oddly, your lineup seems like a net increase of $15-20mil to payrol, assuming that you get cash from Pittsburgh to offset Kendall and make him about $6mil/yr. That's roughly equivalent to the salary relief we get from Maggs+Valentin! (I know, I'm ignoring the Garcia, Everett, Contreras $$$.)

mdep524
11-09-2004, 02:14 PM
Levine mentioned the the interest in Kendall late last week, as well. I doubt that it has any merit, though. Even if Pittsburgh agrees to eat 1/2 of his salary, which they have been rumored to do in the past, it eats most of the $5-10Mil of "available" salary that is to be spent *speculative*....
Jason Kendall would be great for this team, I hope KW pursues that. His salary is just so outrageous though...

Kendall
Vizquel
Lee
Thomas
Konerko
Rowand
Everett
Uribe
Crede

would be a very solid line up.

Tekijawa
11-09-2004, 02:16 PM
I'm sorry, but your scenario is totally unrealistic. All the trade rumors include us sending Garland over, how can we keep him?

You've obviously never heard of the old switcherooooo!

jordan23ventura
11-09-2004, 02:19 PM
Just heard the 1:40PM ESPN Radio Sportscenter (local), and they said that the White Sox are rumored to be interested in Pirates catcher Jason Kendall and free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye.

I'd love Kendall to come here as long as he can be catching to Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, and Randy Johnson. He's a solid leadoff man who can probably get the job done better than Aaron Rowand (would be a great # 2 or even a # 5 hitter) and Wille Harris (if he can learn how to bunt and bunt for a hit, he would be a solid # 2).

Dye I'm neutral on. I kind of like him at times and he doesn't wow me at times.

I should also add on that on The Score updates they are mentioning that neither the Cubs or Sox are expected to make any moves during the GM meetings this week. At least no blockbuster deals.
Kendall I understand. Dye? Why? What do we do with Everett if Frank comes back healthy?

There isnt enough money to go around to allow for either of these guys to spend time on the bench. The only thing I can think of (if KW is indeed interested in Dye) is that he is planning on dealing Lee and doesn't want to put Borchard out there. I don't blame him for that. Plus, I guess Dye would make sense if they could get him on maybe a 1 year deal with a club option for a second year until Anderson is ready. J.D. Drew, who besides Beltran is really the only other choice, I would think is going to command 3 years or at least 2 with an option.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-09-2004, 02:22 PM
Jason Kendall would be great for this team, I hope KW pursues that. His salary is just so outrageous though...

Kendall
Vizquel
Lee
Thomas
Konerko
Rowand
Everett
Uribe
Crede

would be a very solid line up. OK, this maybe NUTS, but, how about having Thomas hit 2nd? Even if we don't land Kendall or Vizquel. Just think about it, his OBP is over .400. That's just nuts. With our current roster, this lineup would be great...

Rowand CF
Thomas DH
Lee LF
Konerko 1B
Everett RF
Uribe SS
Crede 3B
Davis C
Harris 2B

If Rowand gets a hit, Thomas would get a lot of pitches to crush. No one would pitch around Thomas with Rowand on base. The only problem Thomas has is he usually comes up short when a runner needs to be moved from 1st to 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd. He usually gets the job done bringing a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

It's an idea worth thinking about. I certainly don't think we should rely on him to be our # 3 or # 4. Maybe # 4 or # 5, but that way your season, offensively, is pretty much in his hands.

jordan23ventura
11-09-2004, 02:23 PM
Jason Kendall would be great for this team, I hope KW pursues that. His salary is just so outrageous though...

Kendall
Vizquel
Lee
Thomas
Konerko
Rowand
Everett
Uribe
Crede

would be a very solid line up.
Yes, that would be a solid lineup. Only unlikely, because the No. 1 priority is SP, and I would think No. 2 would be adding a guy or two in the bullpen. If that were to happen, and the Sox were ALSO to pick up Kendall and Vizquel, there would be no PK, and probably no Lee either. Instead, we would be treated to an outfield of something like Dye-Rowand-Everett. Ewwwwww.

mdep524
11-09-2004, 02:23 PM
OK, this maybe NUTS, but, how about having Thomas hit 2nd? Even if we don't land Kendall or Vizquel. Just think about it, his OBP is over .400. That's just nuts. With our current roster, this lineup would be great...

Rowand CF
Thomas DH
Lee LF
Konerko 1B
Everett RF
Uribe SS
Crede 3B
Davis C
Harris 2B

If Rowand gets a hit, Thomas would get a lot of pitches to crush. No one would pitch around Thomas with Rowand on base. The only problem Thomas has is he usually comes up short when a runner needs to be moved from 1st to 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd. He usually gets the job done bringing a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

It's an idea worth thinking about. I certainly don't think we should rely on him to be our # 3 or # 4. Maybe # 4 or # 5, but that way your season, offensively, is pretty much in his hands.
Didn't The Tinkerer himself, Jerry Manuel try this once or twice a few years ago?

WhiteSoxFan84
11-09-2004, 02:25 PM
I think he did and he did the same with Carlos Lee. I do know Lee was a tremendous success hitting 2nd. I think I remember Thomas being very good hitting 2nd as well. I maybe wrong about Thomas, but Lee I am sure about.

FarmerAndy
11-09-2004, 02:26 PM
Didn't The Tinkerer himself, Jerry Manuel try this once or twice a few years ago?
Yes, he did. And if I remember right, it worked out quite well.

Of course, in true Manuel fashion, he ignored the fact that it was working out well and switched things back.

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2004, 02:27 PM
Just heard the 1:40PM ESPN Radio Sportscenter (local), and they said that the White Sox are rumored to be interested in Pirates catcher Jason Kendall and free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye.

I'd love Kendall to come here as long as he can be catching to Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, and Randy Johnson. He's a solid leadoff man who can probably get the job done better than Aaron Rowand (would be a great # 2 or even a # 5 hitter) and Wille Harris (if he can learn how to bunt and bunt for a hit, he would be a solid # 2).

Dye I'm neutral on. I kind of like him at times and he doesn't wow me at times.

I should also add on that on The Score updates they are mentioning that neither the Cubs or Sox are expected to make any moves during the GM meetings this week. At least no blockbuster deals.It sounds like whoever reported this has been reading Rotoworld.:redneck

Jjav829
11-09-2004, 02:32 PM
On the 2:20 update, the update guy said Levine reports the Sox have shown interest in Dye, Russ Ortiz, and Carl Pavano. Update that roster Teki! :D:

Flight #24
11-09-2004, 02:35 PM
Yes, that would be a solid lineup. Only unlikely, because the No. 1 priority is SP, and I would think No. 2 would be adding a guy or two in the bullpen. If that were to happen, and the Sox were ALSO to pick up Kendall and Vizquel, there would be no PK, and probably no Lee either. Instead, we would be treated to an outfield of something like Dye-Rowand-Everett. Ewwwwww.
Just a bit O' statistical gobbledegook...

Kendall (C): .384OBP / .388SLG
Vizquel (SS): .343OBP / .391SLG
Frank (DH): .387 OBP / .526SLG
Everett (RF): .345OBP / .461SLG
Rowand (CF): .361OBP / .544SLG
Uribe (2B): .327OBP/ .506SLG
Dye (LF): .318OBP / .425SLG
Gload (1B): .375OBP / .479SLG
Crede (3B): .305OBP / .440SLG

All #s are 3-year averages except for Uribe, Rowand, & Gload - where I've used last year due to shortness of career.

It's not studly, but it's a decent lineup. And combined with a studly pitching staff, it could work.

Or maybe all I've shown is that you can use statistics to prove anything, no matter how ridiculous.

Brian26
11-09-2004, 03:33 PM
On the 2:20 update, the update guy said Levine reports the Sox have shown interest in Dye, Russ Ortiz, and Carl Pavano. Update that roster Teki! :D:

Russ Ortiz is another guy that Kenny Williams has been slobbering over for years. No surprise there.

Mickster
11-09-2004, 03:36 PM
Russ Ortiz is another guy that Kenny Williams has been slobbering over for years. No surprise there.
Fine....so long as we don't hear an update claiming that KW's interested in Erstad.

Jjav829
11-09-2004, 03:38 PM
Russ Ortiz is another guy that Kenny Williams has been slobbering over for years. No surprise there.
I really hope KW doesn't sign Ortiz and consider the starting rotation set. If he trades Garland to bring in another big pitcher, and then signs Ortiz, I would be fine with that. But I think it would be a big mistake to count on Ortiz as anything higher than a #3. In the AL, and in the Cell, there's a good chance he would blow-up.

OEO Magglio
11-09-2004, 03:39 PM
Fine....so long as we don't hear an update claiming that KW's interested in Erstad.
I'd much rather have Erstad then Ortiz.

OEO Magglio
11-09-2004, 03:40 PM
I really hope KW doesn't sign Ortiz and consider the starting rotation set. If he trades Garland to bring in another big pitcher, and then signs Ortiz, I would be fine with that. But I think it would be a big mistake to count on Ortiz as anything higher than a #3. In the AL, and in the Cell, there's a good chance he would blow-up.
His era would be well over 5 here, imo. He'd get absolutely killed with the amount of walks he issues, count that with pitching at the cell in the al and he'd easily get destroyed.

Tekijawa
11-09-2004, 03:42 PM
On the 2:20 update, the update guy said Levine reports the Sox have shown interest in Dye, Russ Ortiz, and Carl Pavano. Update that roster Teki! :D:
I'm guessing Ortiz and Pavano will be moved to the pen, to replace Cotts and Adkins?!?!?

With all these names flying around it looks like Kenny may have invested in about 30 pounds of the good S**T and is keeping our owner "happy" all winter...

OEO Magglio
11-09-2004, 03:43 PM
I'm guessing Ortiz and Pavano will be moved to the pen, to replace Cotts and Adkins?!?!?

With all these names flying around it looks like Kenny may have invested in about 30 pounds of the good S**T and is keeping our owner "happy" all winter...
There are tons of rumors floating around every offseason, just because we're interested doesn't mean we are going to sign or trade for any of these guys.

SoxxoS
11-09-2004, 03:45 PM
The guys we do get/acquire... the Score isn't going to be the source to break the news beforehand.

It's worth posting...but most of us should know by now that KW doesn't leak CRAP to the media or anyone else. (Except otis :D: )

Jjav829
11-09-2004, 03:47 PM
I'm guessing Ortiz and Pavano will be moved to the pen, to replace Cotts and Adkins?!?!?

With all these names flying around it looks like Kenny may have invested in about 30 pounds of the good S**T and is keeping our owner "happy" all winter...
Too many good names being mentioned with the Sox having interest. It makes me think we're gonna end up with John Halama, Shane Reynolds, and Darren Bragg. :(:

Mickster
11-09-2004, 03:49 PM
There are tons of rumors floating around every offseason, just because we're interested doesn't mean we are going to sign or trade for any of these guys.
You mean we're not going to have a rotation of RJ, Pedro Martinez, Pavano, Freddy and Buehrle...with a bulpen of Garland, Russ Ortiz, Benitez, Shingo...???

Surely you can't be serious?

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2004, 03:54 PM
The guys we do get/acquire... the Score isn't going to be the source to break the news beforehand.

It's worth posting...but most of us should know by now that KW doesn't leak CRAP to the media or anyone else. (Except otis :D: )True, but that doesn't mean there won't be leaks from other teams. Am I the only one wondering why a reporter in Dayton, Ohio, of all places, is the one reporting the RJ story? But he could have a contact in Arizona, an old classmate, or cousin or brother-in-law, so you never know.

Brian26
11-09-2004, 03:56 PM
The guys we do get/acquire... the Score isn't going to be the source to break the news beforehand.

It's worth posting...but most of us should know by now that KW doesn't leak CRAP to the media or anyone else. (Except otis :D: )

Most stories are broken here before they ever get to the Score.

Flight #24
11-09-2004, 03:58 PM
True, but that doesn't mean there won't be leaks from other teams. Am I the only one wondering why a reporter in Dayton, Ohio, of all places, is the one reporting the RJ story? But he could have a contact in Arizona, an old classmate, or cousin or brother-in-law, so you never know.
Any one of whom could be "leaving their dope in his backpack" as he gets closer to deadline.....

1917
11-09-2004, 04:38 PM
Most stories are broken here before they ever get to the Score.
Just a question and I don't mean for this to sound harsh or bash on the guy....but who is Otis and who is his sourse....did he ever nail anything yet? I admit I just got on this site and I have seen 2 posts from him, one saying we were going after Ben Sheets, and 1 saying we were going after Hairston or Catilliano (spelling) both were in 2004 and both never happended....I know rumors fly everywhere, but did Otis and his sourse ever nail a trade rumor down? AGAIN the only reason I ask is not to discredit him, but I want to know how serious I should look into his posts....

Rocky Soprano
11-09-2004, 04:41 PM
otis was the first person to report the ARod/Maggs to Boston trade which fell through.

Mickster
11-09-2004, 04:43 PM
otis was the first person to report the ARod/Maggs to Boston trade which fell through.
And, if I'm not mistaken, broke the story a full 3 weeks prior to anyone else....

Kogs35
11-09-2004, 04:55 PM
And, if I'm not mistaken, broke the story a full 3 weeks prior to anyone else....
you are correct. he also had the garcia deal before any1

Mohoney
11-09-2004, 05:08 PM
If he trades Garland to bring in another big pitcher, and then signs Ortiz, I would be fine with that.
Randy Johnson AND Russ Ortiz?

With this rotation, the Twins wouldn't touch us. In fact, it just might be the most quality rotation in the AL:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle as a #3? Filthy.
Ortiz as a #4? Filthy.
Contreras

That's enough pitching to win the 4-3 and 3-2 games that we have been losing the past 3 years. This rotation makes the 5th and 6th options in our bullpen move to strictly mop-up duty.

I would trade PK, C Lee, and pretty much anybody else offensively that makes big money for prospects and salary relief to field that kind of rotation. I would sign Percival, too, to turn the bullpen from a liability into an asset.

I could go to war with a bullpen of Percival, Shingo, Marte, and Politte with Grilli as a long man-spot starter and Bajenaru and Cotts in mop-up or one batter stints. It's a lot more than some other teams have, and I think is on a par with Romero, Rincon, and Nathan.

I would be more than prepared to go into next season with this lineup:

1 Rowand CF
2 Vizquel SS (I'm assuming it's a done deal)
3 Frank DH
4 Everett LF
5 Gload 1B
6 Uribe 2B
7 Crede 3B
8 Borchard RF
9 Davis C

Bench of: Burke, Perez, Harris, Valdez

If I could have this rotation:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Ortiz
Contreras

And this bullpen (which will be way better because they won't be overworked with those stud starters logging about 1100-1200 combined IP and about 15 CG):

Grilli (long man-spot starter for doubleheaders)
Bajenaru (easy role that I think he's more than adequate to fill)
Cotts (lefty specialist, 1 or 2 batter stints)
Politte (a guy that I think will really be solid when he's not overworked and comes in for 1 inning at most)
Marte (another guy that will benefit from not being overworked, a lot of his innings will be shouldered by the great LH starters in the rotation)
Shingo (can close games, we know he's solid)
Percival (can also close games, we know he's solid)

That's a championship-caliber pitching staff. Plus, we kill two birds with one stone. If any of the younger players like Gload, Uribe, Crede, Borchard, Davis, Cotts, and Bajenaru play like crap this season, we can get rid of them without worrying that they never got a chance. As an added bonus, we beef up the farm system with prospects obtained in a PK or C Lee trade (whichever one doesn't go to the DBacks for Johnson).

As far as I'm concerned, Garland had his chance. He's made over 120 starts at this level, and seems to be spinning his wheels and not showing enough improvement. If he got me Johnson, I wouldn't mind one bit. Of course, if we can get Johnson without giving up Garland, he can compete with Contreras for the 5th starter spot in Spring Training. If Garland beats out Contreras, we stick Contreras in the bullpen and give Bajenaru or Grilli a ticket to Charlotte. If Contreras beats out Garland, we trade Garland for prospects.

Mickster
11-09-2004, 05:12 PM
I would be more than prepared to go into next season with this lineup:

1 Rowand CF
2 Vizquel SS (I'm assuming it's a done deal)
3 Frank DH
4 Everett LF
5 Gload 1B
6 Uribe 2B
7 Crede 3B
8 Borchard RF
9 Davis C

Bench of: Burke, Perez, Harris, Valdez

If I could have this rotation:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Ortiz
Contreras


Still need a better offense [see 2003 Dodgers - great pitching and no offense].

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2004, 05:19 PM
Randy Johnson AND Russ Ortiz?

With this rotation, the Twins wouldn't touch us. In fact, it just might be the most quality rotation in the AL:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle as a #3? Filthy.
Ortiz as a #4? Filthy.
Contreras

That's enough pitching to win the 4-3 and 3-2 games that we have been losing the past 3 years. This rotation makes the 5th and 6th options in our bullpen move to strictly mop-up duty.

I would trade PK, C Lee, and pretty much anybody else offensively that makes big money for prospects and salary relief to field that kind of rotation. I would sign Percival, too, to turn the bullpen from a liability into an asset.

I could go to war with a bullpen of Percival, Shingo, Marte, and Politte with Grilli as a long man-spot starter and Bajenaru and Cotts in mop-up or one batter stints. It's a lot more than some other teams have, and I think is on a par with Romero, Rincon, and Nathan.

I would be more than prepared to go into next season with this lineup:

1 Rowand CF
2 Vizquel SS (I'm assuming it's a done deal)
3 Frank DH
4 Everett LF
5 Gload 1B
6 Uribe 2B
7 Crede 3B
8 Borchard RF
9 Davis C

Bench of: Burke, Perez, Harris, Valdez

If I could have this rotation:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Ortiz
Contreras

And this bullpen (which will be way better because they won't be overworked with those stud starters logging about 1100-1200 combined IP and about 15 CG):

Grilli (long man-spot starter for doubleheaders)
Bajenaru (easy role that I think he's more than adequate to fill)
Cotts (lefty specialist, 1 or 2 batter stints)
Politte (a guy that I think will really be solid when he's not overworked and comes in for 1 inning at most)
Marte (another guy that will benefit from not being overworked, a lot of his innings will be shouldered by the great LH starters in the rotation)
Shingo (can close games, we know he's solid)
Percival (can also close games, we know he's solid)

That's a championship-caliber pitching staff. Plus, we kill two birds with one stone. If any of the younger players like Gload, Uribe, Crede, Borchard, Davis, Cotts, and Bajenaru play like crap this season, we can get rid of them without worrying that they never got a chance. As an added bonus, we beef up the farm system with prospects obtained in a PK or C Lee trade (whichever one doesn't go to the DBacks for Johnson).

As far as I'm concerned, Garland had his chance. He's made over 120 starts at this level, and seems to be spinning his wheels and not showing enough improvement. If he got me Johnson, I wouldn't mind one bit. Of course, if we can get Johnson without giving up Garland, he can compete with Contreras for the 5th starter spot in Spring Training. If Garland beats out Contreras, we stick Contreras in the bullpen and give Bajenaru or Grilli a ticket to Charlotte. If Contreras beats out Garland, we trade Garland for prospects.IMO, Ortiz, for all his flaws, is probably the best FA pitcher available. But I figure Ortiz is going to get $8-10M on a 3-4 yr deal, which probably puts him out of the Sox range. And in truth, he does give up a lot of BB. The FA pitcher I'm warming up to is Jon Lieber. He's much more affordable. He pitched well for the Yankees last year, has a nice high G/F ratio, and might be signed for half of what Ortiz will get, and for only 2 yrs. Which means they could keep Lee. I'd much rather have Lieber + Lee than Ortiz + Borchard.

doublem23
11-09-2004, 05:21 PM
I got to say... This thread really makes the guys in the "Bears = play-offs" thread grounded in reality. :tongue:

I hope, but I'm afraid.

nitetrain8601
11-09-2004, 05:24 PM
Still need a better offense [see 2003 Dodgers - great pitching and no offense].
No real ace on that team. They had a real solid pitching staff, but no one that made you say, that guy is a stud. And that includes Hideo. Look at the Sox offense now, it's more than enough with that type of pitching. I think many fans such as yourself have gotten so spoiled with the offense that they've given you the past couple of years, that you expect that offense and everything else is just not enough. Well it is enough with the right stuff. We've been 1st or 2nd in HR's since 2000 and what have we done besides 1 playoffs appearance? What did St. Louis do with that Murderer's Row? Oh yeah, they got swept because they had no pitching.

LAWSfan
11-09-2004, 05:32 PM
No real ace on that team. They had a real solid pitching staff, but no one that made you say, that guy is a stud. And that includes Hideo. Look at the Sox offense now, it's more than enough with that type of pitching. I think many fans such as yourself have gotten so spoiled with the offense that they've given you the past couple of years, that you expect that offense and everything else is just not enough. Well it is enough with the right stuff. We've been 1st or 2nd in HR's since 2000 and what have we done besides 1 playoffs appearance? What did St. Louis do with that Murderer's Row? Oh yeah, they got swept because they had no pitching.
Who cares if there wasn't a true ace on the Dodger staff in 2003. Though Kevin Brown when healthy comes close to being an ace. The point is the Dodgers had a great pitching STAFF and if they had any offense they would have won the division or at least been a wildcard.

And I would love to finish the WS loser. Better than being sitting at home watching the Cardinals win two playoff series.

nitetrain8601
11-09-2004, 05:47 PM
Who cares if there wasn't a true ace on the Dodger staff in 2003. Though Kevin Brown when healthy comes close to being an ace. The point is the Dodgers had a great pitching STAFF and if they had any offense they would have won the division or at least been a wildcard.

And I would love to finish the WS loser. Better than being sitting at home watching the Cardinals win two playoff series.
If your going to build a team, you should build it 100% right, not 75%. The Dodgers pitching staff was not great. They had no stopper. No guy who would win you 1-0 or 2-0 games. Even with the "broken-down" lineup of next year that was projected, that lineup still has more power than the Dodger lineup and is 5X's better overall. I love the longball, but it hasn't worked. Time to changeup.

LAWSfan
11-09-2004, 05:51 PM
If your going to build a team, you should build it 100% right, not 75%. The Dodgers pitching staff was not great. They had no stopper. No guy who would win you 1-0 or 2-0 games. Even with the "broken-down" lineup of next year that was projected, that lineup still has more power than the Dodger lineup and is 5X's better overall. I love the longball, but it hasn't worked. Time to changeup.
You must not follow the Dodgers that closely. Brown 14-9 2.39 era. How is that? The White Sox would kill for somebody with that kind of numbers. And the Dodgers won a lot of games 2-1, 1-0 etc.

nitetrain8601
11-09-2004, 05:54 PM
You must not follow the Dodgers that closely. Brown 14-9 2.39 era. How is that? The White Sox would kill for somebody with that kind of numbers. And the Dodgers won a lot of games 2-1, 1-0 etc.
And where was he for a little less than half of the season?

Mohoney
11-09-2004, 07:28 PM
IMO, Ortiz, for all his flaws, is probably the best FA pitcher available. But I figure Ortiz is going to get $8-10M on a 3-4 yr deal, which probably puts him out of the Sox range. And in truth, he does give up a lot of BB. The FA pitcher I'm warming up to is Jon Lieber. He's much more affordable. He pitched well for the Yankees last year, has a nice high G/F ratio, and might be signed for half of what Ortiz will get, and for only 2 yrs. Which means they could keep Lee. I'd much rather have Lieber + Lee than Ortiz + Borchard.
You really think Ortiz is going to cost $8 million plus?

I was thinking something along the lines of 4 years, $30 million with the contract paying:

$6 million the 1st year
$7 million the 2nd year
$8 million the 3rd year
$9 million the 4th year

I think Ortiz would take that. Plus, if we completely fall apart either next year or in 2006, we have Buehrle, Garcia, and Ortiz to deal off. Think of the prospects we could get.

Mohoney
11-09-2004, 07:36 PM
You must not follow the Dodgers that closely. Brown 14-9 2.39 era. How is that?
Not nearly enough wins, and too many losses. That 2.39 would go up at LEAST a run if he were in the AL. If he were an ace, he would have won 20.

If Unit comes here, I GUARANTEE 20+ wins.

If Loaiza could do it, then Unit can.

The AL is pretty diluted when it comes to pitching.

That being said, if the Yankees are indeed willing to unload Brown and pay all his salary except the prorated minimum of $300K, I'm all over it. It gives us the flexibility to add Unit and go into this season with:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Brown
Contreras

I'm already drooling.

Brian26
11-09-2004, 09:43 PM
Just a question and I don't mean for this to sound harsh or bash on the guy....but who is Otis and who is his sourse....did he ever nail anything yet? I admit I just got on this site and I have seen 2 posts from him, one saying we were going after Ben Sheets, and 1 saying we were going after Hairston or Catilliano (spelling) both were in 2004 and both never happended....I know rumors fly everywhere, but did Otis and his sourse ever nail a trade rumor down? AGAIN the only reason I ask is not to discredit him, but I want to know how serious I should look into his posts....
Just because a deal didn't happen, it doesn't mean he was wrong. I think KW was going after Hairston and Catallano. The Ben Sheets rumor apparently was BS- doesn't mean KW didn't want him, but the Brewers weren't going to trade him.

LAWSfan
11-09-2004, 10:29 PM
Not nearly enough wins, and too many losses. That 2.39 would go up at LEAST a run if he were in the AL. If he were an ace, he would have won 20.

If Unit comes here, I GUARANTEE 20+ wins.

If Loaiza could do it, then Unit can.

The AL is pretty diluted when it comes to pitching.

That being said, if the Yankees are indeed willing to unload Brown and pay all his salary except the prorated minimum of $300K, I'm all over it. It gives us the flexibility to add Unit and go into this season with:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Brown
Contreras

I'm already drooling.
What are you talking about? You made a statement about whether or not the 2003 Dodgers had an ace. Why are you bringing up whether Brown's ERA would go up in the AL? Who cares.

The lack of offense prevented Brown from winning 20. Oh so Unit wasn't an ace right, because he only won 16 games right???

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2004, 11:34 PM
You really think Ortiz is going to cost $8 million plus?

I was thinking something along the lines of 4 years, $30 million with the contract paying:

$6 million the 1st year
$7 million the 2nd year
$8 million the 3rd year
$9 million the 4th year

I think Ortiz would take that. Plus, if we completely fall apart either next year or in 2006, we have Buehrle, Garcia, and Ortiz to deal off. Think of the prospects we could get.What you're projecting averages out to $7.5M/yr. I don't think I can project with any better accuracy than that. I suspect Lieber will go for a lot less, and I like him almost as well.

mdep524
11-10-2004, 12:04 AM
I would be more than prepared to go into next season with this lineup:

1 Rowand CF
2 Vizquel SS (I'm assuming it's a done deal)
3 Frank DH
4 Everett LF
5 Gload 1B
6 Uribe 2B
7 Crede 3B
8 Borchard RF
9 Davis C

If I could have this rotation:

Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Ortiz
Contreras

I agree that rotation is pretty damn good. (Though I think it might be better with Odalis Perez, Brad Radke or Al Leiter as the FA pick up and not Ortiz.) But that line up is simply atrocious. Mercifully bad. That might be on par with the Arizona team that lost over 100 games this year. I would gladly sub out RJ for Hudson, Vazquez or another mid range FA to keep at least one of Lee or Konerko in that line up, and possibly upgrade elsewhere (catcher, maybe?)

Tragg
11-10-2004, 12:20 AM
Kendall I understand. Dye? Why? What do we do with Everett if Frank comes back healthy?

There isnt enough money to go around to allow for either of these guys to spend time on the bench. The only thing I can think of (if KW is indeed interested in Dye) is that he is planning on dealing Lee and doesn't want to put Borchard out there. I don't blame him for that. Plus, I guess Dye would make sense if they could get him on maybe a 1 year deal with a club option for a second year until Anderson is ready. J.D. Drew, who besides Beltran is really the only other choice, I would think is going to command 3 years or at least 2 with an option.Bench, that's where, regardless of what happens. If he's one of our top 3 OFs we're in trouble. We could use a decent bench anyway.

Jjav829
11-10-2004, 05:38 PM
Levine reports that the Sox and Pirates talked again today about Kendall. He didn't have anything really new, so there's no point in starting a new thread. He said Kenny is still talking to Arizona and RJ, trying to determine whether RJ would accept a trade here. Kenny wants to add an ace, and is interested in Pavano. Levine says that Pavano will go through the dog-and-pony show, going to New York, Boston, etc. On Kendall, he said the Pirates would eat a big portion of the contract. He also mentioned that Kenny is frustrated because he wants to start wheeling and dealing while most other teams are just starting to lay the groundwork and gauge interest.

I would love to see Kendall here, but I wonder just how much the Pirates would eat as well as who we would give up.

While I'm on White Sox hot stove, Gammons just said RJ wouldn't accept a trade to the Sox. Take that FWIW...

Randar68
11-10-2004, 05:43 PM
While I'm on White Sox hot stove, Gammons just said RJ wouldn't go to the Sox. Take that FWIW...
Well then, start pre-ordering your RJ White Sox jerseys!

doublem23
11-10-2004, 05:46 PM
Well then, start pre-ordering your RJ White Sox jerseys!
:)

My thoughts exactly.

Mickster
11-10-2004, 05:46 PM
While I'm on White Sox hot stove, Gammons just said RJ wouldn't go to the Sox. Take that FWIW...
Well it must be official, then. RJ will be a member of the White Sox.

Jjav829
11-10-2004, 05:51 PM
I should clarify for those that already read my message. Gammons stated that he doesn't think that RJ would accept a trade to the Sox, not that they wouldn't agree to a deal. I edited my message to state that.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-10-2004, 05:52 PM
While I'm on White Sox hot stove, Gammons just said RJ wouldn't accept a trade to the Sox. Take that FWIW...
if that's true than he's contradicting himself. a week or so after the deadline earlier this year, gammons said that RJ was willing to accept a deal in the offseason to chicago (southside).

Mickster
11-10-2004, 05:52 PM
I should clarify for those that already read my message. Gammons stated that he doesn't think that RJ would accept a trade to the Sox, not that they wouldn't agree to a deal. I edited my message to state that.Doesn't change my response... :D:

mdep524
11-10-2004, 06:33 PM
I should clarify for those that already read my message. Gammons stated that he doesn't think that RJ would accept a trade to the Sox, not that they wouldn't agree to a deal. I edited my message to state that.
He also said Arizona wanted Rowand in any RJ trade. In other areas, he metioned Atlanta as a possibly suitor for Kevin Brown. The trade he proposed- Brown for Andrew Jones- seems like it would keep Carlos Beltran out of the Yankees plans... effectively making him more affordable for the Sox possibly? He went on to say he sees Beltran going to the Cubs, so let's hope his kiss of death works there.

ilsox7
11-10-2004, 06:38 PM
I was only half paying attention to Gammons, but I thought he mentioned the White Sox saying something along the lines of "they really want to be in the RJ derby, having offered Konerko and Garland and even talked about Rowand, but it just isn't gonna happen." I took it more to mean that for whatever reason, RJ is not coming to the Sox. I didn't hear him say anything about RJ not accepting a trade here. Maybe it was on a different segment of Sports Center or maybe I just missed it.

Jjav829
11-10-2004, 07:15 PM
I was only half paying attention to Gammons, but I thought he mentioned the White Sox saying something along the lines of "they really want to be in the RJ derby, having offered Konerko and Garland and even talked about Rowand, but it just isn't gonna happen." I took it more to mean that for whatever reason, RJ is not coming to the Sox. I didn't hear him say anything about RJ not accepting a trade here. Maybe it was on a different segment of Sports Center or maybe I just missed it.Yeah that's pretty much what he said. I can't type it verbatim, but he basically said, "The White Sox are really interested in Johnson. They think they have a shot with a package of Konerko and Garland, Arizona wants Rowand, but it's not gonna happen, Johnson won't accept a trade there. There's only 3 teams, the Yankees, Cardinals, _________ (I forget the 3rd team, might have been the Angels) that he'll accept a trade to." He did say that he didn't think RJ would accept a trade here, however.

Kogs35
11-10-2004, 07:43 PM
Yeah that's pretty much what he said. I can't type it verbatim, but he basically said, "The White Sox are really interested in Johnson. They think they have a shot with a package of Konerko and Garland, Arizona wants Rowand, but it's not gonna happen, Johnson won't accept a trade there. There's only 3 teams, the Yankees, Cardinals, _________ (I forget the 3rd team, might have been the Angels) that he'll accept a trade to." He did say that he didn't think RJ would accept a trade here, however.
it was the angels

FightingBillini
11-10-2004, 08:11 PM
Well, Gammons is senile and close to retarded. In the last two years the only thing I have heard him get right was his name. Its a joke that espn has him as their "insider". He is a fool. If anything, it makes me more confident that we will get Johnson knowing Gammons said we wont.

Lip Man 1
11-10-2004, 08:18 PM
Right field is one of those positions where you need to get some offensive production out of. Guys like Perez will do a nice job a couple times a week but they can't handle the position on a full time basis. let's put it this way, how many think Perez would put up even modest production numbers of say 20 home runs, 80 RBI's and maybe a .270 average?

And the less said about Gload as an outfielder (remember the defensive blunders...) the better.

This is clearly a position where the Sox need to do something as well. If Dye isn't very expensive I could see taking a chance of him. His knock has been that he's injury prown but right now his 80 RBI's would look good to me in the current situation the Sox find themselves in.

Lip

JUribe1989
11-10-2004, 08:33 PM
And the less said about Gload as an outfielder (remember the defensive blunders...) the better.


Lip
The biggest blunders were June 25 against the Cubs. He is a great first basemen though. Remember the play against the Tigers when he jumped about 7 feet in the air to rob a liner.

Flight #24
11-10-2004, 09:59 PM
The biggest blunders were June 25 against the Cubs. He is a great first basemen though. Remember the play against the Tigers when he jumped about 7 feet in the air to rob a liner.
and with that 7 foot leap, was able to reach 8 ft high!!!:tongue:

Jjav829
11-11-2004, 07:52 AM
Yeah that's pretty much what he said. I can't type it verbatim, but he basically said, "The White Sox are really interested in Johnson. They think they have a shot with a package of Konerko and Garland, Arizona wants Rowand, but it's not gonna happen, Johnson won't accept a trade there. There's only 3 teams, the Yankees, Cardinals, _________ (I forget the 3rd team, might have been the Angels) that he'll accept a trade to." He did say that he didn't think RJ would accept a trade here, however.
Here is what Gammons said in his latest article:

Arizona hasn't talked to Johnson or put him out, but the White Sox have been very aggressive, offering Paul Konerko (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5908) and Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396). One D-Backs official asked for Aaron Rowand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742) and didn't get a no, but Randy likely will say no to the White Sox, leaving the Yanks, Cardinals and Angels (who are trying to move pitchers' salaries like Ramon Ortiz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6317)). Arizona GM Joe Garagiola keeps trying to sign Richie Sexson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5931), with little success.
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1920544)

samram
11-11-2004, 09:12 AM
Here is what Gammons said in his latest article:

Arizona hasn't talked to Johnson or put him out, but the White Sox have been very aggressive, offering Paul Konerko (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5908) and Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396). One D-Backs official asked for Aaron Rowand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742) and didn't get a no, but Randy likely will say no to the White Sox, leaving the Yanks, Cardinals and Angels (who are trying to move pitchers' salaries like Ramon Ortiz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6317)). Arizona GM Joe Garagiola keeps trying to sign Richie Sexson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5931), with little success.


Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1920544)
Just reading this, it looks like Boston is putting words in RJ's mouth. I'm sure he thinks he has some great source who knows all, but there's nothing that says RJ has said he wouldn't accept a trade to the Sox. As a matter of fact, why would Kenny even bother if he is so sure to say no? There's a lot of other holes to fill, and other options to fill the SP holes, so there's no point wasting time on a trade that has absolutely no chance of happening.

mdep524
11-11-2004, 12:16 PM
Just reading this, it looks like Boston is putting words in RJ's mouth. I'm sure he thinks he has some great source who knows all, but there's nothing that says RJ has said he wouldn't accept a trade to the Sox. As a matter of fact, why would Kenny even bother if he is so sure to say no? There's a lot of other holes to fill, and other options to fill the SP holes, so there's no point wasting time on a trade that has absolutely no chance of happening.:boston
I'm still trying to get used to the idea that there are TWO teams called the Sox. I mean, really, is this fair to the utopia of Boston? Where did this other Sox team come from anyway?

Flight #24
11-11-2004, 02:51 PM
[quote]

One D-Backs official asked for Aaron Rowand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742) and didn't get a no[/quote

This had me shuddering. The only way I deal Rowand is if we get significant salary relief in the trade, i.e. enough to go get Beltran or Drew.

Or I'd deal ARow for RJ straight up, 1-1 but the DBacks have to pick up enough salary to make his cost like $4mil.

Ol' No. 2
11-11-2004, 02:53 PM
I've been hearing that the Sox were talking to Pittsburgh about Jason Kendall for three days, and then suddenly Kenny won't answer calls. That's the KW pattern. Take that for what it's worth.

Jjav829
11-11-2004, 03:31 PM
I've been hearing that the Sox were talking to Pittsburgh about Jason Kendall for three days, and then suddenly Kenny won't answer calls. That's the KW pattern. Take that for what it's worth.
Where did you hear that KW won't answer calls?

Hangar18
11-11-2004, 03:43 PM
Doesn't Kendall have a huge salary that we would have to take on? And that huge salary is the reason he's been a Pirate for so long. because nobody can afford him?
Kendall woudlve been a Cub had they not acquired Michael Barrett

Ol' No. 2
11-11-2004, 04:02 PM
Where did you hear that KW won't answer calls?This was on Monday. I didn't mean since then. Who knows? Maybe he took the day off. Maybe he was busy. Maybe his hemorrhoids flared up. Could be anything. That's why I said take it for what it's worth. I just wondered if anyone else had heard anything similar.

Hangar18
11-11-2004, 04:05 PM
I've been hearing that the Sox were talking to Pittsburgh about Jason Kendall for three days, and then suddenly Kenny won't answer calls. That's the KW pattern. Take that for what it's worth.

thats because Uncle Jerry gave Kenny one of those Pay-As-You-Go Cell Phones
and he didnt recharge the phone ........ heh heh