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RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 08:47 PM
Sosa-Green Swap May Be in the Works (http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers6nov06,1,1311094.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger)

Kogs35
11-06-2004, 08:49 PM
does de podesta want to be fired?

samram
11-06-2004, 09:07 PM
As a Dodgers fan, I'm not liking this one bit. That team finally found some chemistry this year- they don't need a cancer in the clubhouse to ruin that.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 09:16 PM
As a Dodgers fan, I'm not liking this one bit. That team finally found some chemistry this year- they don't need a cancer in the clubhouse to ruin that.
I agree. Besides, it looks like Green's power is returning following the shoulder surgery. IIRC, eighteen of his twenty eight home runs came during the second half, and he also clubbed three homers during the post-season series vs. the Cardinals. The Dodgers need to make some changes before next season, but I don't think trading Shawn Green is going to make them a better team, especially if they receive Sosa in return.

If you ask me, the Cubs seem like they're getting desperate to unload Sosa, and so they're making offers to anyone who will listen. If DePodesta is smart, he'll either reject this deal outright, or he'll look into making a three-way deal involving another team.

I could see the Dodgers, Cubs, and Mets making the following deal:

Dodgers receive: Cliff Floyd

Cubs receive: Shawn Green

Mets receive: Sammy Sosa

This deal makes more sense for each of the teams involved. Floyd gives Los Angeles a left-handed hitter with power, Green allows the Cubs to get rid of Sosa, and the Mets... have a problem (but what else is new?). But, as I said earlier, DePodesta should not trade Green for Sosa straight-up.

Jabroni
11-06-2004, 09:24 PM
I agree. Besides, it looks like Green's power is returning following the shoulder surgery. IIRC, eighteen of his twenty eight home runs came during the second half, and he also clubbed three homers during the post-season series vs. the Cardinals. The Dodgers need to make some changes before next season, but I don't think trading Shawn Green is going to make them a better team, especially if they receive Sosa in return.

If you ask me, the Cubs seem like they're getting desperate to unload Sosa, and so they're making offers to anyone who will listen. If DePodesta is smart, he'll either reject this deal outright, or he'll look into making a three-way deal involving another team.

I could see the Dodgers, Cubs, and Mets making the following deal:

Dodgers receive: Cliff Floyd

Cubs receive: Shawn Green

Mets receive: Sammy Sosa

This deal makes more sense for each of the teams involved. Floyd gives Los Angeles a left-handed hitter with power, Green allows the Cubs to get rid of Sosa, and the Mets... have a problem (but what else is new?). But, as I said earlier, DePodesta should not trade Green for Sosa straight-up.Why would the Dodgers want to get rid of Shawn Green to only gain Cliff Floyd? Floyd has bad wheels and desperately needs to play DH for an AL team. He can barely play in the outfield without pain anymore. The Dodgers would be getting a worse player with a smaller contract. And even Floyd's contract is for more than he is worth at $6 million a year. I guess if the Dodgers are desperate to cut payroll they would make this trade. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 09:30 PM
Why would the Dodgers want to get rid of Shawn Green to only gain Cliff Floyd? Floyd has bad wheels and desperately needs to play DH for an AL team. He can barely play in the outfield without pain anymore. The Dodgers would be getting a worse player with a smaller contract. And even Floyd's contract is for more than he is worth at $6 million a year. I guess if the Dodgers are desperate to cut payroll they would make this trade. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them.
Floyd can play first base if needed. Again, this was only a possibility, as the Mets have said they are willing to move Floyd.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 09:36 PM
Why would the Dodgers want to get rid of Shawn Green to only gain Cliff Floyd? Floyd has bad wheels and desperately needs to play DH for an AL team. He can barely play in the outfield without pain anymore. The Dodgers would be getting a worse player with a smaller contract. And even Floyd's contract is for more than he is worth at $6 million a year. I guess if the Dodgers are desperate to cut payroll they would make this trade. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them.
This might make more sense, both in terms of money, and in terms of what the Dodgers are planning for this off-season:

Dodgers get:

Tom Glavine (10.5)
Cliff Floyd (6.5)

Cubs get:

Shawn Green (16.5)

Mets get:

Sammy Sosa (16.0)

() denotes player's salary in millions.

Jabroni
11-06-2004, 10:04 PM
This might make more sense, both in terms of money, and in terms of what the Dodgers are planning for this off-season:

Dodgers get:

Tom Glavine (10.5)
Cliff Floyd (6.5)

Cubs get:

Shawn Green (16.5)

Mets get:

Sammy Sosa (16.0)

() denotes player's salary in millions.Ok, that makes sense. :thumbsup:

StillMissOzzie
11-07-2004, 12:43 AM
The 3 way deal makes a bit more sense, but nobody is really taking on or dumping salary, they're just changing bodies. The straight up, Sosa for Green deal makes no sense at all from the Dodgers side.

Between this rumor and the Todd Hundley deal, it makes me wonder if Hendry has photographs of the Dodgers brass in unnatural acts with small mammals.

SMO
:gulp:

soxwon
11-07-2004, 01:21 AM
Oh Come on if the Cubs swindle another great player for a bum like sosa, ill scream.

how do they end up doing great deals like this?
Cant MLB unite and say FU to the Cubs- We wont deal with you?

DumpJerry
11-07-2004, 02:55 AM
I want the Flubs to be stuck with Scammy next year. They deserve each other. We deserve the entertainment. Why anyone would want the headache in his clubhouse is a mystery. Scammy no longer contributes anything positive to a team. He is very prone to steroid-induced injuries like blown ligaments in his back, etc.

Then there is the issue of protection for his brand-new boombox.

samram
11-07-2004, 09:00 AM
This might make more sense, both in terms of money, and in terms of what the Dodgers are planning for this off-season:

Dodgers get:

Tom Glavine (10.5)
Cliff Floyd (6.5)

Cubs get:

Shawn Green (16.5)

Mets get:

Sammy Sosa (16.0)

() denotes player's salary in millions.
Interesting, but I think the Mets may be inclined to keep Glavine since Leiter may be gone. I also think the Dodgers would rather make a splash with Beltran for around the same dollars as Glavine and Floyd, and then replace Perez with Radke. The problem with the three-way deal is that, at this point, Green is the best player, and Sosa and Floyd are injury risks, and Sosa definitely seems to be on the way down, whether it's due to age or maybe not being able to keep doing the same "off-season workouts" (ahem) he used to do.

The Dodgers can rule that division for a few years, with the Padres being their only competition (unless the Giants really upgrade their pitching). Bringing in Floyd or Sosa just seems like a step backward- of course, I thought the Lo Duca trade was awful (well, for last year, it still was), but if Penny is back, they sign Radke (maybe), resign Alvarez, hopefully get Ishii and Nomo back to normal, and those prospects start making an impact, they will be pretty good for a while.

Flight #24
11-07-2004, 10:46 AM
Interesting, but I think the Mets may be inclined to keep Glavine since Leiter may be gone. I also think the Dodgers would rather make a splash with Beltran for around the same dollars as Glavine and Floyd, and then replace Perez with Radke. The problem with the three-way deal is that, at this point, Green is the best player, and Sosa and Floyd are injury risks, and Sosa definitely seems to be on the way down, whether it's due to age or maybe not being able to keep doing the same "off-season workouts" (ahem) he used to do.

The Dodgers can rule that division for a few years, with the Padres being their only competition (unless the Giants really upgrade their pitching). Bringing in Floyd or Sosa just seems like a step backward- of course, I thought the Lo Duca trade was awful (well, for last year, it still was), but if Penny is back, they sign Radke (maybe), resign Alvarez, hopefully get Ishii and Nomo back to normal, and those prospects start making an impact, they will be pretty good for a while.Let's see....the Dodgers save no salary, take on longer big contracts, and add a mediocre pitcher. Tell me again why they wouldn't just go sign someone like a Lieber/Milton or someone who'll cost maybe $4mil or so and pitch decently in that ballpark, add minimally to their 05 payroll but free up significantly in '06?

If they freed up salary to resign beltre I could see it, but otherwise? no way. And the straight swap: they'd have to be absolute morons to swap an underachieving good guy with a 1-yr/$16mil deal for a declining, bad attitude with a 2-yr/$32mil deal. Isn't DePodesta supposed to be smart?

samram
11-07-2004, 11:01 AM
Let's see....the Dodgers save no salary, take on longer big contracts, and add a mediocre pitcher. Tell me again why they wouldn't just go sign someone like a Lieber/Milton or someone who'll cost maybe $4mil or so and pitch decently in that ballpark, add minimally to their 05 payroll but free up significantly in '06?

If they freed up salary to resign beltre I could see it, but otherwise? no way. And the straight swap: they'd have to be absolute morons to swap an underachieving good guy with a 1-yr/$16mil deal for a declining, bad attitude with a 2-yr/$32mil deal. Isn't DePodesta supposed to be smart?
Well, I agree with you on trading Green for any of the guys mentioned. Lieber or Milton would work as well, I just mentioned Radke because they are one of the teams rumored (which could mean nothing) to be interested.

DePodesta is supposed to be smart, but I don't have the unconditional admiration for him that some would because of his connection to The Genius. If he trades Green for Sosa, there would be a lot of Dodger fans, IMO, who would want him fired.

RKMeibalane
11-07-2004, 12:01 PM
Interesting, but I think the Mets may be inclined to keep Glavine since Leiter may be gone. I also think the Dodgers would rather make a splash with Beltran for around the same dollars as Glavine and Floyd, and then replace Perez with Radke. The problem with the three-way deal is that, at this point, Green is the best player, and Sosa and Floyd are injury risks, and Sosa definitely seems to be on the way down, whether it's due to age or maybe not being able to keep doing the same "off-season workouts" (ahem) he used to do.

The Dodgers can rule that division for a few years, with the Padres being their only competition (unless the Giants really upgrade their pitching). Bringing in Floyd or Sosa just seems like a step backward- of course, I thought the Lo Duca trade was awful (well, for last year, it still was), but if Penny is back, they sign Radke (maybe), resign Alvarez, hopefully get Ishii and Nomo back to normal, and those prospects start making an impact, they will be pretty good for a while.
There are a few other things to consider, as well. The Dodgers are interested in possibly making Hee Sopp Choi the starter at first base next season, because they are interested to see what he can do. At this point, Choi is not going to be a thirty-home-run player, but the Dodgers front-office believes that he can provide solid production at first if he's given the chance. When you think about it, Choi was never really given a chance by the Cubs, mainly because Dusty Baker had some sort of obsession with giving Eric Karros playing time.

Even if Choi doesn't pan out, the Dodgers have a left-handed hitting prospect in their minor league system named James Loney. Based on what I've read about him, Loney seems poised to become a high-average, line-drive hitter, with solid power to gaps. He doesn't seem like the type of player who will hit that many home runs, but he should give the Dodgers a nice player at first base for several years. He's only 20-21 right now, and appears to have a bright future ahead of him.

Foulke You
11-07-2004, 09:35 PM
Besides the obvious attitude and big money contract problems that Sosa brings, DePodesta would have to be concerned about Sosa's power numbers declining in cavernous Dodgers stadium. Away from the 365 foot power alleys of Wrigley, I can see Sammy doing his homer hop with the Dodgers only to have the outfielders catch the ball 5 feet in front of the warning track.:D:

RKMeibalane
11-07-2004, 09:50 PM
Besides the obvious attitude and big money contract problems that Sosa brings, DePodesta would have to be concerned about Sosa's power numbers declining in cavernous Dodgers stadium. Away from the 365 foot power alleys of Wrigley, I can see Sammy doing his homer hop with the Dodgers only to have the outfielders catch the ball 5 feet in front of the warning track.:D:
I agree. It's my opinion (not that that's worth much) that the Dodgers would be better off filling their roster with line-drive hitters, as opposed to sluggers. Because of its location, Dodger Stadium has never been a place where the home run happens on a frequent basis, even today. I am reminded of one of the Sox games in 2003. Frank Thomas absolutely crushed a ball off of Wilson Alverez, and it landed only a few rows back in the left field pavillion.

Darrin Jackson speculated that in any other park, that ball would have been an upper deck shot without question. The ball just does not carry well in Dodger Stadium, especially during night games. Frank's home run is only one example. Steve Finley's grand slam that clinched the NL West was also hammered, but it too landed only a few rows up in the bleachers.

I would hope that DePodesta has done his homework and realizes that an aging slugger like Sosa would not fare well playing his home games in a virtual dead zone for power hitters, especially considering the fact that a great number of Sammy's zingers were basket shots, the cheapest type of home run anyone can hit.

pearso66
11-07-2004, 10:01 PM
also IIRC isnt Sammy guaranteed 19 mil next year if he is traded?

RKMeibalane
11-07-2004, 10:03 PM
also IIRC isnt Sammy guaranteed 19 mil next year if he is traded?
It's either eighteen or nineteen, IIRC. Either way, I can't imagine why the Dodgers would be interested in trading a solid citizen (Shawn Green) for an individual who can't see past his own ego. The Dodgers had a great team clubhouse for the first time since... who knows when? Why would they want to risk messing that up by bringing in a player whom everyone knows has an attitude problem?

MRKARNO
11-07-2004, 11:03 PM
also IIRC isnt Sammy guaranteed 19 mil next year if he is traded?


Yes it is. With Sammy's crazy contractual provisions, the team acquiring him will have to pay at minimum 42.5 million I believe over two years. There's a 5 million dollar severance package owed to him immediately if he's traded and the '06 option is automatically picked up and an '07 option is added with a 3 million+ dollar buyout.

Any GM that picks this up should be fired immediately.

samram
11-08-2004, 09:04 AM
It's either eighteen or nineteen, IIRC. Either way, I can't imagine why the Dodgers would be interested in trading a solid citizen (Shawn Green) for an individual who can't see past his own ego. The Dodgers had a great team clubhouse for the first time since... who knows when? Why would they want to risk messing that up by bringing in a player whom everyone knows has an attitude problem?
I agree. You mentioned the ballpark factor at Chavez Ravine, but also remember that Pac Bell and Petco are not exactly launching pads, so Sosa's production at the Dodgers' two biggest rivals' ballparks would be less than normal also. They would be far wiser to try to bring back Beltre instead of spending equivalent, if not more, dollars at Sosa.

34 Inch Stick
11-08-2004, 11:37 AM
I am just going to sit back and laugh as the Cubs are forced to live with Sammy this year. From day 1 this is going to be entertaining. As is his custom, he will show up late for ST. This time, instead of being cute, it will be looked on for the selfish act that it truly is. Sammy will arrive a week late, oblivious to the poop storm that awaits him. He will get out of his car trying to be as cute as possible and he will be eaten alive. After that we will see the kind of brooding Sammy that we saw after the Riley pee in a cup challenge. He will not apologize to his teammates and they will hate him. The Tribune will be all to happy to destroy their slugger. The boos will be raining down by about week 2.

Flight #24
11-08-2004, 12:44 PM
The Tribune will be all to happy to destroy their slugger. The boos will be raining down by about week 2.
One thing the Trib is awesome at is sugarcoating and "facade"ing all things Cub. If indeed, Sammy is back with the team, I fully expect that the articles we read will be all about how "Sammy's focused on proving his detractors wrong", and how "He's much more professional in the clubhouse", along with how "his late ST arrival was due to a desire to complete a new rigorous offseason workout" (while ignoring the fact of his shrinking pysique and head).

No way they allow their in-house marketing program to tear down a guy who's going to stay with the team. The current blather is all about trying to minimize damage if he's shipped out. If that fails, watch for an immediate change in tone.

Foulke You
11-08-2004, 03:37 PM
One thing the Trib is awesome at is sugarcoating and "facade"ing all things Cub. If indeed, Sammy is back with the team, I fully expect that the articles we read will be all about how "Sammy's focused on proving his detractors wrong", and how "He's much more professional in the clubhouse", along with how "his late ST arrival was due to a desire to complete a new rigorous offseason workout" (while ignoring the fact of his shrinking pysique and head).

No way they allow their in-house marketing program to tear down a guy who's going to stay with the team. The current blather is all about trying to minimize damage if he's shipped out. If that fails, watch for an immediate change in tone.
I agree with you there. Right now, the Trib is trying to rake Sammy through the mud to grease the skids for his departure so the Cubs fans will be for ANY trade involving the roided up Dominican. However, if they are forced to keep him, I can see the damage control articles surfacing in order to keep all things happy in Cub-dumb.

DumpJerry
11-08-2004, 06:07 PM
We are overlooking one thing about this possible deal. The Dodgers' team doctor will not be a sports medicine person, it will be a shrink. The Dodgers' outfield and clubhouse will contain Scammy Sosa and Milton Bradley. I predict a death by the All Star Break.

Lip Man 1
11-08-2004, 08:26 PM
For what it's worth, Paul DePodestra was a guest on the Jeff Rickert show today on The Sporting News radio network.
He said he and Hendry have not spoken since the Dodgers played the Cubs in August, and that if someone wants Green they will have to make a 'substancial' offer since they consider Green a 'centerpiece' of the organization.

The sense I got is that Green is available but it'll take more then Sosa alone to do it.

Lip

santo=dorf
11-08-2004, 09:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1918811

"At this point, I'd bet on him staying with the Cubs," Sosa's agent, Adam Katz told ESPN's Peter Gammons. "If there were anything going, they'd have to contact me, and no one has. Nothing is even close to irreconcilable. Both people [Sosa and Dusty Baker] are good people who want to win and do so in Chicago."

gosox41
11-09-2004, 09:19 AM
We are overlooking one thing about this possible deal. The Dodgers' team doctor will not be a sports medicine person, it will be a shrink. The Dodgers' outfield and clubhouse will contain Scammy Sosa and Milton Bradley. I predict a death by the All Star Break.
It would be fun to be in that clubhouse.



Bob