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View Full Version : Is the Beltran talk just that?


Jjav829
11-06-2004, 10:21 AM
We are 6 days away from teams being able to officially discuss contracts with other teams free agents. Obviously the biggest name in the free agent market is Carlos Beltran. We've all heard about the obvious potential suitors (Yankees, Cubs, Angels, etc.). But then on Wednesday we got an interesting little nugget as Kenny Williams publicly talked about Beltran having an interest in playing here, which of course brought up talk that the Sox would go after Beltran. As was discussed in another thread, this type of behavior differs from how Kenny Williams normally acts. This brings up my question. Is the Sox interest in Beltran real, or is this just a show? It just so happens that at the same time the rumors began that the Sox would go after Beltran, news conveniently broke that Magglio is officially gone next year. I have to wonder if all this talk about Beltran is being spread by the Sox to try to take some heat off of letting Maggs go. I can't help but think that this talk is simply meant to try to appease the fans while Magglio walks. That way in the end when Maggs signs with the Mets or some other team, and Beltran goes to the Cubs or Yankees, the excuse is in place.

So I ask, is the Carlos Beltran talk real, or is it simply being spread to try to make the fans believe that the Sox are actually trying to sign one of the best players in the game?

voodoochile
11-06-2004, 10:24 AM
I voted no, because I believe they will make an offer, get beat by someone else, refuse to up their offer and walk away crying poor.

To me that's not a serious attempt to sign the guy.

TornLabrum
11-06-2004, 10:29 AM
I voted no, because I believe they will make an offer, get beat by someone else, refuse to up their offer and walk away crying poor.

To me that's not a serious attempt to sign the guy.
And it's not like we haven't seen the Sox pull that stunt before. Reminds me of Big Jim Thompson, who when he ran for governor pledged not to raise taxes only to raise them right after he got re-elected. It happened more than once, and it got to the point where I voted against him because I knew that he would. I've seen the Sox pull this too many times before, mostly while Scheuler was GM, to believe them.

jabrch
11-06-2004, 10:38 AM
I think KW will talk to Boras, make a serious offer to the tune of whatever he is most able to afford given whatever our budget is, and will allow Beltran to decide if that's enough. If Beltran is looking to get the most money, he won't end up here. But that doesn't mean the offer wasn't serious - it will likely be for whatever KW can fit into his budget. If he wants to go somewhere where he has the most chance of winning a WS every year, it also won't be here. But that doesn't mean KW's offer isn't serious.


I guess it depends on how we define serious offer. If serious offer means 10 years and 17mm per, I hope KW doesn't even come remotely close to being serious. Cuz with a budget of (estimated) 70-75mm this season and assumed straight-line appreciation based on revenues, I don't see how this would be the best use of it.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-06-2004, 10:38 AM
And it's not like we haven't seen the Sox pull that stunt before. Reminds me of Big Jim Thompson, who when he ran for governor pledged not to raise taxes only to raise them right after he got re-elected. It happened more than once, and it got to the point where I voted against him because I knew that he would. I've seen the Sox pull this too many times before, mostly while Scheuler was GM, to believe them.
Yep. What he said. Ditto for the guy before him, too.

Ron Schueler was famous for always talking big and never doing ****. The one exception was signing Belle and JR pulled the plug less than six months later.

And as for all the "big" trades we've seen the last 10 years, that's nothing more than hoping for addition by subtraction. It's no way to *build* up the roster.

Typical White Sox bull****.

dickallen15
11-06-2004, 10:43 AM
According to the NY Post this morning the Yankees "yawned" when Boras mentioned a 10 year contract. They are thinking he will probably get 6 years at $14 million a year. If this is true, and Beltran has an interest in coming here, the White Sox have a great shot.

HomeFish
11-06-2004, 10:54 AM
I think KW is just crazy (in a good way) enough to make a few serious offers, but I do not believe that anything will come of it. If you believe that any big name FA would want to sign with us, you are delusional.

jabrch
11-06-2004, 10:57 AM
According to the NY Post this morning the Yankees "yawned" when Boras mentioned a 10 year contract. They are thinking he will probably get 6 years at $14 million a year. If this is true, and Beltran has an interest in coming here, the White Sox have a great shot.
Someone has to be willing to give him more than that. If it settles at 6/14, there will be a lot of teams willing to pay him that - the Sox may be one. The Cubs will be one. So will the Yanks.

Boras is posturing. Let him do it. In the meantime, lets see if KW can find a few pitchers - to me that is still much more important that bringing in a CF.

Jjav829
11-06-2004, 11:08 AM
I think that we will be able to gauge the Sox interest in Beltran based on Ozzie's contract situation. Ozzie is a lame-duck manager going into 2005. One of the Sox selling points to Beltran will likely be Ozzie. But it's going to be hard to sell Beltran on playing for a lame-duck manager. So if the Sox are truly serious about bringing in Beltran, they should lock in Ozzie for 2 more years. That way they can sell Beltran on playing for Ozzie for at least 3 years, rather than 1.

LongLiveFisk
11-06-2004, 11:15 AM
I voted no, because I believe they will make an offer, get beat by someone else, refuse to up their offer and walk away crying poor.

To me that's not a serious attempt to sign the guy.

What he said.

munchman33
11-06-2004, 11:27 AM
I voted no, because I believe they will make an offer, get beat by someone else, refuse to up their offer and walk away crying poor.

To me that's not a serious attempt to sign the guy.
I think that depends on the counter offer. If its a little more, then yeah. If its an Arod-Texas like counter bid, walk away.

soxwon
11-06-2004, 12:19 PM
i thought we had him a month ago.

but $180 million, there is no chance of it now!!!

Beltran is not the best player in baseball, top ten maybe.

i"d rather have VLAD!!!

Lip Man 1
11-06-2004, 12:38 PM
There's a story in the Daily Southtown today (Saturday) that addresses the Beltran situation and Williams comments directly on some aspects of it...i.e. a 10 year contract demand.

Lip

Wealz
11-06-2004, 12:53 PM
If the Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, or Mets make signing Beltran a priority one of them will get him and there isn't much the Sox can do about it.

I'd be dissapointed if the Sox are willing to throw $120M+ at Beltran and he signs somewhere else and then they don't go after Beltre or Drew.

munchman33
11-06-2004, 12:57 PM
There's a story in the Daily Southtown today (Saturday) that addresses the Beltran situation and Williams comments directly on some aspects of it...i.e. a 10 year contract demand.

Lip
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/061sd4.htm

Lip Man 1
11-06-2004, 12:58 PM
Wealz:

That's the Sox M.O. don't you think? What did they do after 'losing out' to A-Rod? What did they do when Colon refused 'the largest contract ever offered to a pitcher in White Sox history...' (LOL)

Lip

Wealz
11-06-2004, 01:01 PM
I think that we will be able to gauge the Sox interest in Beltran based on Ozzie's contract situation. Ozzie is a lame-duck manager going into 2005. One of the Sox selling points to Beltran will likely be Ozzie. But it's going to be hard to sell Beltran on playing for a lame-duck manager. So if the Sox are truly serious about bringing in Beltran, they should lock in Ozzie for 2 more years. That way they can sell Beltran on playing for Ozzie for at least 3 years, rather than 1.
Ozzie will be the Sox manager for a good while regardless of his contract situation, he's a Reinsdorf favorite. In fact, I can't recall the terms of his contract. Same thing with other Reinsdorf management guys like Krause, Schueler Paxson and Williams.

Mickster
11-06-2004, 01:02 PM
KW's comments on a 10yr deal:
Speaking on Friday in general about the notion of signing a player to a 10-year contract, general manager Ken Williams said, "The way that we as the White Sox run things, that is something we would not entertain."
I don't have a problem with that comment. I honestly don't think that Beltran will get a 10 year deal with anyone, let alone the Sox. My guess is 7 max.

Wealz
11-06-2004, 01:04 PM
Wealz:

That's the Sox M.O. don't you think? What did they do after 'losing out' to A-Rod? What did they do when Colon refused 'the largest contract ever offered to a pitcher in White Sox history...' (LOL)

Lip
The difference in the A-Rod free-agency was that there wasn't another player close to the caliber of him on the market at the time. With Colon, if they signed him, they'd have to trade Ordonez to fit his salary.

Mickster
11-06-2004, 01:09 PM
The difference in the A-Rod free-agency was that there wasn't another player close to the caliber of him on the market at the time. With Colon, if they signed him, they'd have to trade Ordonez to fit his salary.
What other pitchers were available when Colon turned down his offer? I remember the next best was Ponson. Thank God we didn't throw $7M x 3yrs at him.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-06-2004, 01:38 PM
I think that we will be able to gauge the Sox interest in Beltran based on Ozzie's contract situation. Ozzie is a lame-duck manager going into 2005....
I'm surprised you think Ozzie is a lame duck. What led you to this conclusion?

:?:

cornball
11-06-2004, 02:11 PM
I hate to admit this but Mariotti's article was pretty acurate yesterday on this subject.



http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay05.html

OzzieBall2004
11-06-2004, 02:38 PM
While KW and co. might talk to Boreass, there are too many intangibles that will prevent anything coming to fruition. Namely, the length of the deal, the ensuing bidding war, the Sox relationship with Boreass, and the ability to sell the White Sox as a team commited to competing for a World Series on a regular basis. Talk is cheap and top notch free agents are not, and KW can say all he wants about not being interested in rebuilding and wanting to win now, but at the end of the day even if we do outbid the highest offer (albeit a stretch), I'm sure Beltran will find other clubs more attractive.

Personally, I like the idea of pursuing and signing Beltre, including Crede in a package deal with either Konerko/Lee, and landing a quality pitcher via trade (Hudson?). That way you're improving the rotation significantly, as well as making up for the lost offensive production of either of those 2 guys. Whether this is financially feasible is a whole different question, and I haven't heard what kind of money Beltre was looking for.

Jjav829
11-06-2004, 02:39 PM
I'm surprised you think Ozzie is a lame duck. What led you to this conclusion?

:?:This is why I try to limit my early morning posts. :smile:

First, I didn't mean that he is a lame duck, rather that he is potentially a lame duck manager. Second, I didn't even bother to check to see if there is an option for a 3rd year, which there is (club option).

My point was that it's going to be hard to sell Beltran on your manager if that manager is only under contract for one more year. They'd be better off signing him to an extention so that they can guarantee Beltran that Ozzie will be here for a few more years. I'm sure Ozzie will be here a few more years, but Beltran doesn't know that. If the chance to play for Ozzie is a large part in him choosing to come to the Sox, then he may want some assurance that Ozzie will be here for a while.

Jjav829
11-06-2004, 02:44 PM
While KW and co. might talk to Boreass, there are too many intangibles that will prevent anything coming to fruition. Namely, the length of the deal, the ensuing bidding war, the Sox relationship with Boreass, and the ability to sell the White Sox as a team commited to competing for a World Series on a regular basis. Talk is cheap and top notch free agents are not, and KW can say all he wants about not being interested in rebuilding and wanting to win now, but at the end of the day even if we do outbid the highest offer (albeit a stretch), I'm sure Beltran will find other clubs more attractive.

Personally, I like the idea of pursuing and signing Beltre, including Crede in a package deal with either Konerko/Lee, and landing a quality pitcher via trade (Hudson?). That way you're improving the rotation significantly, as well as making up for the lost offensive production of either of those 2 guys. Whether this is financially feasible is a whole different question, and I haven't heard what kind of money Beltre was looking for.
Beltre is a Boras client. I'd guess Boras will probably be looking for something around $12-14 million a year. That's a lot of money to give a guy who has had one big season in 7 years. O, and that big season just happened to come in a contract year. Shocking! If the Sox don't go after Beltran, I'd hope they pass on Beltre and go after a front-line starter and reliever.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 03:47 PM
I think that we will be able to gauge the Sox interest in Beltran based on Ozzie's contract situation. Ozzie is a lame-duck manager going into 2005. One of the Sox selling points to Beltran will likely be Ozzie. But it's going to be hard to sell Beltran on playing for a lame-duck manager. So if the Sox are truly serious about bringing in Beltran, they should lock in Ozzie for 2 more years. That way they can sell Beltran on playing for Ozzie for at least 3 years, rather than 1.
Was Ozzie originally given a two-year contract? For some reason, I thought his deal was longer than just two seasons.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 03:49 PM
Beltre is a Boras client. I'd guess Boras will probably be looking for something around $12-14 million a year. That's a lot of money to give a guy who has had one big season in 7 years. O, and that big season just happened to come in a contract year. Shocking! If the Sox don't go after Beltran, I'd hope they pass on Beltre and go after a front-line starter and reliever.
I agree. I don't think Adrian Beltre is capable of repeating the season he had in 2004, and beyond that, I think the Dodgers are going to re-sign him anyway. As you pointed out, the Sox need to focus on bolstering their starting rotation more than they need to focus on accquiring offensive-minded players. With Thomas, Konerko, Rowand, and a healthy Carl Everett, the Sox will have players in the middle of their lineup who can put runs on the board.

RKMeibalane
11-06-2004, 03:51 PM
This is why I try to limit my early morning posts. :smile:

First, I didn't mean that he is a lame duck, rather that he is potentially a lame duck manager. Second, I didn't even bother to check to see if there is an option for a 3rd year, which there is (club option).

My point was that it's going to be hard to sell Beltran on your manager if that manager is only under contract for one more year. They'd be better off signing him to an extention so that they can guarantee Beltran that Ozzie will be here for a few more years. I'm sure Ozzie will be here a few more years, but Beltran doesn't know that. If the chance to play for Ozzie is a large part in him choosing to come to the Sox, then he may want some assurance that Ozzie will be here for a while.
Okay. Now I understand what you were talking about earlier. Disregard my post about Ozzie's contract.

nitetrain8601
11-06-2004, 07:43 PM
Beltre is a Boras client. I'd guess Boras will probably be looking for something around $12-14 million a year. That's a lot of money to give a guy who has had one big season in 7 years. O, and that big season just happened to come in a contract year. Shocking! If the Sox don't go after Beltran, I'd hope they pass on Beltre and go after a front-line starter and reliever.
I agree. I think Crede has just as good as a chance that Beltre did to have a season like Beltre did last year. I'm willing to give Crede one more year unless a Rolen becomes available which won't happen.

SOXSINCE'70
11-06-2004, 10:18 PM
Beltran would be a great addition,but the Sox have other problems
to solve (bullpen,a closer,infield,the ever elusive # 5 starter).

I voted NO.