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View Full Version : Some random offseason thoughts...


lowesox
11-06-2004, 12:18 AM
I haven't really been around WSI much these days, so you'll have to pardon me if any of this is repetitive.

1. I don't want Randy Johnson or Omar Vizquel. Personally, I think that getting players in the final stages of their careers would be utterly stupid. The risk of injury is high. The risk of underachivement is higher.

2. I think KW should be fired if we start the season with both Frank Thomas and Carl Everett on our roster. Two DHs, both making a ton of money. For a team that's always crying about how much money they don't have, this would be a terrible waste. For those of you who think, well it would be tough for Kenny to trade either of those guys, I say he shouldn't have traded for Everett in the first place.

3. I think we desperately need a legit closer. In fact, I think it should be one of our highest priorities. But, I often feel Kenny forgets about the bullpen and always tries to make a splash by getting the biggest name.

4. I think managemnt needs to make some tough moves. This same group has been around for a long time, and they always seem to choke down the stretch. I'd exlore moving guys like Konerko, Lee, Buerle and Shingo - guys who have value.

OEO Magglio
11-06-2004, 12:28 AM
3. I think we desperately need a legit closer. In fact, I think it should be one of our highest priorities. But, I often feel Kenny forgets about the bullpen and always tries to make a splash by getting the biggest name.


:?: Some of his best moves had been adding bullpen pitchers.

jabrch
11-06-2004, 01:32 AM
For those of you who think, well it would be tough for Kenny to trade either of those guys, I say he shouldn't have traded for Everett in the first place.
Had we not lost both Frank AND Magglio, wasn't there reason to believe that Everett would have been helpful to this team in a chase to win the division? An arguement could have been made either way - and hindsight obviously tells us much more. But... pretend Frank didn't go down - or Magglio didn't go down. Ah screw it...it happened.

Given that Frank probably won't be ready for ST and may not even be ready for opening day, I don't see any reason to believe that we won't get a chance to see Everett DH every day for a while if he is healthy.

StillMissOzzie
11-06-2004, 01:45 AM
2. I think KW should be fired if we start the season with both Frank Thomas and Carl Everett on our roster. Two DHs, both making a ton of money.
Since both had player options, and both have exercised those options, this is already a done deal. jabrch does have a good point though - if Frank's ankle injury keeps him out of spring training, expect to see Crazy Carl in the DH slot to open the season.

SMO
:gulp:

lowesox
11-06-2004, 09:08 AM
:?: Some of his best moves had been adding bullpen pitchers.
That's the thing that really gets me about Kenny. It's the smaller, under the radar moves he makes that are usually quite smart.

It's when he tries to go out and impress everybody by making 'the big move' that he usually makes himself look like a jackass. I think ego is his fatal flaw.

lowesox
11-06-2004, 09:18 AM
[QUOTE=jabrch]Had we not lost both Frank AND Magglio, wasn't there reason to believe that Everett would have been helpful to this team in a chase to win the division? An arguement could have been made either way - and hindsight obviously tells us much more.
QUOTE]

Maybe... The thing is though, at that point the White Sox had been underperforming for quite a long time. And there was more than enough reason to believe that this wasn't going to be a good team. A lot of us were calling for Kenny to rebuild. But, he went the other way.

Now listen, I've wanted Kenny to do a lot of things which afterwards turned out to be stupid. I'll admit that. But I don't buy the arguement that a GM shouldn't be evaluated in hindsight. He gets paid to make this team win, and he hasn't.

Anyway, I know that calling for Kenny's head won't do anything since it's firmly planted inside JR's butt - but I think it's time White Sox fans stop making excuses for him. It's hisjob to think ahead, and he rarely ever does.

jordan23ventura
11-06-2004, 04:11 PM
That's the thing that really gets me about Kenny. It's the smaller, under the radar moves he makes that are usually quite smart.

It's when he tries to go out and impress everybody by making 'the big move' that he usually makes himself look like a jackass. I think ego is his fatal flaw.How does he make himself look like a jackass trying to get a bigger deal done? He netted Colon and Garcia, and picked up Everett for a minor league pitcher and a guy who left the clubhouse immediately following a bad start instead of hanging around to support his teammates.

All this KW should be fired crap has really gotten old. He brought up Burke and Gload, picked up Timo, Uribe, Politte, and Shingo last year, traded a faltering Loazia for Contreras, and if Frank and Maggs would have been healthy this team would likely have made the postseason.

But I believe YOU think you could do better...

Tragg
11-06-2004, 10:47 PM
How does he make himself look like a jackass trying to get a bigger deal done? He netted Colon and Garcia, and picked up Everett for a minor league pitcher and a guy who left the clubhouse immediately following a bad start instead of hanging around to support his teammates.

All this KW should be fired crap has really gotten old. He brought up Burke and Gload, picked up Timo, Uribe, Politte, and Shingo last year, traded a faltering Loazia for Contreras, and if Frank and Maggs would have been healthy this team would likely have made the postseason.

But I believe YOU think you could do better...
The man didn't bash williams - pointed out some good and some bad. Is he above critique?
What you fail to mention in the Everett trade is that we are now stuck with his salary.

jabrch
11-07-2004, 10:09 AM
It's hisjob to think ahead, and he rarely ever does.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first half of that statement. The second - well that's debatable. The outcomes may not be there, but I don't underestand how they qualify as "not thinking ahead" Moves like Uribe, Shingo, Garcia, Contreras, were all done..thinking ahead. When you say that - what do you mean thinking ahead? You don't really believe KW sits there and says to himself - "damn the future" do you? We may not AGREE with his moves, but I gotta imagine he does a good bit of forward planning.

Remember after the Garcia trade he talked about "The Board" and he said that of all the players he has traded away, only one was on the 2005 or 2006 starting board? (I guess Olivo...and he probably felt at the time that Borch was superior to Reed) That's forward thinking...right? (I am sure every GM does that..but it still is forward thinking - no?)

This year he will finally be able to make some forward looking signings with Magglio departing it frees up a big chunk of money. Lets say we end up at 70-75mm (a raise over last year's opening day budget, right?) KW will have a chance to do some nice things to help the club both in the short term and the longer horizon.

I'm, as always, taking the wait and see attitude.

Flight #24
11-07-2004, 10:16 AM
Remember after the Garcia trade he talked about "The Board" and he said that of all the players he has traded away, only one was on the 2005 or 2006 starting board? (I guess Olivo...and he probably felt at the time that Borch was superior to Reed) That's forward thinking...right? (I am sure every GM does that..but it still is forward thinking - no?)


Lot's of interpretations about that comment, one being that he envisioned Sweeney or Anderson being the guy(s) rather than Reed by 2007, not necessarily that he valued Borchard over Reed (a point for which I've yet to see any real evidence).

jabrch
11-07-2004, 10:22 AM
Lot's of interpretations about that comment, one being that he envisioned Sweeney or Anderson being the guy(s) rather than Reed by 2007, not necessarily that he valued Borchard over Reed (a point for which I've yet to see any real evidence).
Didn't he say in an interview that he valued Borch or Reed? Or maybe it was the fact that Seattle originally wanted Borch but KW got them to take Reed. I forget, but for some reason I have it in my head that KW valued Borchard significantly higher than Reed.

idseer
11-07-2004, 10:46 AM
How does he make himself look like a jackass trying to get a bigger deal done? He netted Colon and Garcia, and picked up Everett for a minor league pitcher and a guy who left the clubhouse immediately following a bad start instead of hanging around to support his teammates.

...
and that last will end up biting him in the butt!

jordan23ventura
11-07-2004, 10:22 PM
The man didn't bash williams - pointed out some good and some bad. Is he above critique?
What you fail to mention in the Everett trade is that we are now stuck with his salary.
As has been stated a million times before on this board, hindsight is always 20/20. If Carl Everett had returned strong from injury and helped get us to the playoffs, I doubt anyone would be worrying about his $4mil in '05.

BTW, he is not above critique, I just think its kind of pointless to yell out to fire the guy when he has made plenty of good moves. If anyone is to blame, it's JR for not opening the season with a $90mil + payroll. Because KW sometimes has to scrape for tablescraps isn't all his fault. Do you have any idea how many terrible contracts that the Yanks have had to deal with? Like Giambi and Brown right now? Those would cripple the Sox because they don't have the cash to cover their mistakes - and everyone makes mistakes, including KW. It's just that when he makes one, we can't sign a big name FA to cover it.

jordan23ventura
11-07-2004, 10:26 PM
and that last will end up biting him in the butt!
Maybe so, but it's kind of sad that a team in the third largest market in the country has to worry about $4mil.

All I'm trying to say is that no matter who fills that chair in the office, it will always come down to the same basic thing: there is not enough money made available to go out and get the guys this team needs, unless we trade away some of our best prospects (which is one of his main criticisms).

Flight #24
11-08-2004, 11:00 AM
Didn't he say in an interview that he valued Borch or Reed? Or maybe it was the fact that Seattle originally wanted Borch but KW got them to take Reed. I forget, but for some reason I have it in my head that KW valued Borchard significantly higher than Reed.
I never saw any reports like that. What I saw, IIRC, were reports that Seattle wanted Crede+Olivo and KW finally told them they could have one of the minor league OFs. No mention of a preference on his end or on Seattle's (except for the fact that they took Reed).

There are also some comments from KW after the trade valuing Borchard highly, but that would only be expected, and there weren't any comments comparing him to Reed (that I saw). Some have taken those comments and the fact that Reed was traded to imply that he had Borchard>Reed, but personally, I think that's circumstantial at best.