PDA

View Full Version : Has KW changed his MO?


DumpJerry
11-04-2004, 11:30 PM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?

FightingBillini
11-04-2004, 11:52 PM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?
Maybe. And then we will end up with Rich Aurilia at short and Doug Glanville in center. Seriously though, it is very unlike him.

nodiggity59
11-04-2004, 11:58 PM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?I think Kenny's true plan has not been revealed to us Mwa ha ha!

manuelsucks
11-05-2004, 12:03 AM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?
Very interesting. I never thought about that. Why is he being so vocal? Maybe he's on thin ice and wants to get something done? But that doesn't make any sense because Jerry won't open his fat wallet. I don't get it.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 12:29 AM
:KW
"Hey JR, can I tell the fans who I want to sign?"

:reinsy
"Sure Kenny, tell them. While we are at it, tell me too."

:KW
'Well, I was thinking we need a top of the line starter and another OF with some pop who can bat in the #3 hole. I want to sign Pavano and Beltran - or Johnson if Pavano signs out east."

:reinsy
(spits out his coffee)
(chuckles...)
"Okay, Kenny, you tell them that. I think that is a great idea. You go right ahead and tell everyone exactly who YOU want to sign. I did the same thing a few years ago when ARod was on the market. It worked out great. Now everyone thinks I am a big market player (chuckles again)"

:KW
"So it's okay to sign them, JR?"

:reinsy
"One step at a time, Kenny. First tell the media you WANT to sign them. We'll cross that other bridge later on."

idseer
11-05-2004, 05:11 AM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?
what makes you think he has an mo? how about the more likely possibility that he's just inconsistant? i seriously doubt there's some great method to his madness.

SOXSINCE'70
11-05-2004, 08:23 AM
:KW
"Hey JR, can I tell the fans who I want to sign?"

:reinsy
"Sure Kenny, tell them. While we are at it, tell me too."

:KW
'Well, I was thinking we need a top of the line starter and another OF with some pop who can bat in the #3 hole. I want to sign Pavano and Beltran - or Johnson if Pavano signs out east."

:reinsy
(spits out his coffee)
(chuckles...)
"Okay, Kenny, you tell them that. I think that is a great idea. You go right ahead and tell everyone exactly who YOU want to sign. I did the same thing a few years ago when ARod was on the market. It worked out great. Now everyone thinks I am a big market player (chuckles again)"

:KW
"So it's okay to sign them, JR?"

:reinsy
"One step at a time, Kenny. First tell the media you WANT to sign them. We'll cross that other bridge later on."
Sadly,you've got the whole routine down pat.:(:

munchman33
11-05-2004, 09:08 AM
:KW
"Hey JR, can I tell the fans who I want to sign?"

:reinsy
"Sure Kenny, tell them. While we are at it, tell me too."

:KW
'Well, I was thinking we need a top of the line starter and another OF with some pop who can bat in the #3 hole. I want to sign Pavano and Beltran - or Johnson if Pavano signs out east."

:reinsy
(spits out his coffee)
(chuckles...)
"Okay, Kenny, you tell them that. I think that is a great idea. You go right ahead and tell everyone exactly who YOU want to sign. I did the same thing a few years ago when ARod was on the market. It worked out great. Now everyone thinks I am a big market player (chuckles again)"

:KW
"So it's okay to sign them, JR?"

:reinsy
"One step at a time, Kenny. First tell the media you WANT to sign them. We'll cross that other bridge later on."
Funny, but didn't Lip's revisit to the Arod situation show that that's not true?

SoxFanTillDeath
11-05-2004, 09:44 AM
:KW
"Hey JR, can I tell the fans who I want to sign?"

:reinsy
"Sure Kenny, tell them. While we are at it, tell me too."

:KW
'Well, I was thinking we need a top of the line starter and another OF with some pop who can bat in the #3 hole. I want to sign Pavano and Beltran - or Johnson if Pavano signs out east."

:reinsy
(spits out his coffee)
(chuckles...)
"Okay, Kenny, you tell them that. I think that is a great idea. You go right ahead and tell everyone exactly who YOU want to sign. I did the same thing a few years ago when ARod was on the market. It worked out great. Now everyone thinks I am a big market player (chuckles again)"

:KW
"So it's okay to sign them, JR?"

:reinsy
"One step at a time, Kenny. First tell the media you WANT to sign them. We'll cross that other bridge later on."

In the famous words of Jim Rome: "Hillarious!"

This is a very good thread...I hadn't noticed it until now, but KW has never really been consistent. Sometimes he goes public with who he wants, other times he tells the media they're dumb for not realizing that he *never* talks about players he's working on.

I like KW, but what gives?

soxtalker
11-05-2004, 10:06 AM
Has Kenny Williams changed the way he operates? He is normally very quiet and secretive in public about what he wants. This is probably done to help his negotiating position since the other side cannot operate on the presumption that he has made it known he wants to sign a certain player or make a deal for a certain player.

Now, Kenny is letting the world know who he wants (Vizquel, Beltran) before he can start negotiating. Why the change? Is this to get season ticket holders to send in their payments now?

I'm a little suspicious of attributing Kenny's comments to effects on ticket sales. A signing might have a big effect, but comments probably have only minor effect at best.

KW is secretive more often than not. It lets him pull off a trade that other GM's aren't expecting. But maybe in these cases the comments could have effect on the players in question or their agents, or they might even be an attempt to get other GM's to focus their energies elsewhere.

In the case of Beltran, IIRC, the early reports seemed to indicate that Beltran didn't even take the Sox seriously as a contender. Kenny's comments might simply be an effort to get his attention.

In the case of Vizquel, it makes a little less sense, though, IIRC, the reports coming out (not KW's comments directly) seemed to indicate that Vizquel was very close to signing with the Sox.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 10:16 AM
Funny, but didn't Lip's revisit to the Arod situation show that that's not true?
No, it proved that JR never asked for a solitary meeting with ARod and that he wasn't willing to truly spend the necessary money to make the signing - something we already knew, becuse ARod doesn't wear black and silver...

I've said it before. I'll say it again...

Prove me wrong JR, please prove me wrong. I live for the day when you prove me wrong.

Otherwise...

:selljerry

jabrch
11-05-2004, 10:28 AM
Funny, but didn't Lip's revisit to the Arod situation show that that's not true?
Will you stop letting facts get in the way of bashing JR and KW? JR is cheap and KW is stupid. I thought we have been through this before.

Wealz
11-05-2004, 10:32 AM
Prove me wrong JR, please prove me wrong. I live for the day when you prove me wrong.

Otherwise...

:selljerry
Signing Belle to the richest contract ever.

jabrch
11-05-2004, 10:32 AM
he wasn't willing to truly spend the necessary money to make the signing
He offered 175mm for A-Rod. I don't see how you can say he wasn't willing to spend the money. Had Boras not gotten Hicks to get into a one man bidding war, and drive his own price up by 75mm, the Sox were willing to spend the money that was needed.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 10:43 AM
Signing Belle to the richest contract ever.
Then letting him walk 2 years later because he was too cheap to build a team around him that would actually compete. 1997 - not my favorite year as a Sox fan either.

Thanks for proving my point...

Wealz
11-05-2004, 10:46 AM
Then letting him walk 2 years later because he was too cheap to build a team around him that would actually compete. 1997 - not my favorite year as a Sox fan either.

Thanks for proving my point...
Now you're complaining that Reinsdorf wouldn't pay Belle what Angelos did? How did that work for the Orioles?

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 10:47 AM
He offered 175mm for A-Rod. I don't see how you can say he wasn't willing to spend the money. Had Boras not gotten Hicks to get into a one man bidding war, and drive his own price up by 75mm, the Sox were willing to spend the money that was needed.
No...

Clearly they were not...

Because...

ARod doesn't play for the Sox and never has...

Let's just agree to disagree on this one, jabrch. You say, "That's enough money, " and I understand the emotional an intellectuals aspects that lead you to say that and disagree.

I say, "clearly not enough money, because he doesn't play for the Sox." You refuse to accept my bottom line approach. It's a difference in how we evaluate what happened and I doubt we will ever budge.

jabrch
11-05-2004, 10:48 AM
No...

Clearly they were not...

Because...

ARod doesn't play for the Sox and never has...

Let's just agree to disagree on this one, jabrch. You say, "That's enough money, " and I understand the emotional an intellectuals aspects that lead you to say that and disagree.

I say, "clearly not enough money, because he doesn't play for the Sox." You refuse to accept my bottom line approach. It's a difference in how we evaluate what happened and I doubt we will ever budge.
I hear ya VC...I guess I am just a JR apologist. What can I say? :(

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 10:51 AM
He offered 175mm for A-Rod. I don't see how you can say he wasn't willing to spend the money. Had Boras not gotten Hicks to get into a one man bidding war, and drive his own price up by 75mm, the Sox were willing to spend the money that was needed.
Not only that, they actually were higher than the Ranger's offer at the time that they were trying to meet with ARod. Boras just judged (rightly) that he could get Hicks to bid against phantoms but that the Sox probably wouldn't play that game. So he got him to do something stupid.

JR didn't commit stupid money so he wasn't serious? That's a pretty interesting take.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 10:54 AM
I hear ya VC...I guess I am just a JR apologist. What can I say? :(
I think it is more a case of cognative dissonance (sp?).

If you come to accept that JR is evil incarnate, you admit the team is doomed and your heart won't let you do that, so it forces your head to walk the opposite line.

Pointing out that JR has bigtime problems with the way he runs the team and is sitting on a massive profit anytime he wants it doesn't make someone a bad fan, just a disgruntled one. As disgruntled as I was living in Chicago, I still went to 20 games a year most years and had a partial package in 2001. I also don't blame JR so much for this last year as I do believe that Maggs and Frank if healthy would have given the team a solid shot at the division. I still don't see them winning the pennant until they put together a solid team at all positions and sign at least 3 top of the rotation starters - AND manage to get through the season healthy. Some of those problems cannot be solved, but the rest can be and the person who controls that situation is JR hisownbadself.

Build a winner for the fans, for the city, for yourself, JR.

Or...

:selljerry

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 10:57 AM
JR didn't commit stupid money so he wasn't serious? That's a pretty interesting take.
Well, no one can know what was lurking in JR's brain, except for JR himself. I am judging it on the bottom line and what I know and remember about that situation.

JR's the one who walked into the room with an offer 2.5% below the stated minimum level and refused to up it. To me that says he wasn't truly serious...

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 11:00 AM
I still don't see them winning the pennant until they put together a solid team at all positions and sign at least 3 top of the rotation starters - AND manage to get through the season healthy. Some of those problems cannot be solved, but the rest can be and the person who controls that situation is JR hisownbadself.


No arguments here. I just don't think that even if they did put the team together, if they didn't stay healthy that they'd get any slack from the fans. Which prevents them from making the effort, which makes it less likely that they'd get any slack from the fans so they get more cautious....and around we go:(:

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 11:02 AM
JR's the one who walked into the room with an offer 2.5% below the stated minimum level and refused to up it. To me that says he wasn't truly serious...
Or you can say that JR walked into the room with the highest current market offer, but never got a chance to negotiate because the agent decided he had a chump on the line who he could play off of himself.

We'll never know.

jabrch
11-05-2004, 11:03 AM
Well, no one can know what was lurking in JR's brain, except for JR himself. I am judging it on the bottom line and what I know and remember about that situation.

JR's the one who walked into the room with an offer 2.5% below the stated minimum level and refused to up it. To me that says he wasn't truly serious...
He refused to up it without speaking to A-Rod himself. There is a difference. I wouldn't bid against myself to bring in a potential employee who I haven't been given the opportunity to speak to personally. I don't blame JR for that. I can't see how someone can. I'll blame him for a lot of things, but Hicks and Boras made the A-Rod situation what it was. It wasn't a lack of interest of effort on the part of the Sox that cost us A-Rod.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 11:05 AM
No arguments here. I just don't think that even if they did put the team together, if they didn't stay healthy that they'd get any slack from the fans. Which prevents them from making the effort, which makes it less likely that they'd get any slack from the fans so they get more cautious....and around we go:(:
If your team is so close to being successful and then you have some catastrophic injuries that cost you your shot, some might say, "add more talent and go for it again next year."

Obviously this year is a bit different, with Maggs status completely up in the air, but the solution to that is to sign a guy who can replace his production and then add more pieces. If last years team was close, then it is stupid to not put in the time, energy and money to put this years team over the top.

Otherwise, you are still playing for second...

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 11:06 AM
He refused to up it without speaking to A-Rod himself. There is a difference. I wouldn't bid against myself to bring in a potential employee who I haven't been given the opportunity to speak to personally. I don't blame JR for that. I can't see how someone can. I'll blame him for a lot of things, but Hicks and Boras made the A-Rod situation what it was. It wasn't a lack of interest of effort on the part of the Sox that cost us A-Rod.
Nope, just a lack of commitment...

and bluntly speaking it's the commitment that proves how serious you are.

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 11:09 AM
If your team is so close to being successful and then you have some catastrophic injuries that cost you your shot, some might say, "add more talent and go for it again next year."

Obviously this year is a bit different, with Maggs status completely up in the air, but the solution to that is to sign a guy who can replace his production and then add more pieces. If last years team was close, then it is stupid to not put in the time, energy and money to put this years team over the top.

Otherwise, you are still playing for second...
Depends. If you took a shot, and lost $$$ on it, then do you take a bigger one and assume the risk of losing more $$$? Or do you take the safer route and try to keep it near break-even, contend again, and if healthy - add at midseason? I agree that without taking a shot you're playing for second or a bit of a lucky/good-chemistry streak, but the financial side of things makes it more complicated than I'd prefer as a fan.

Note: The preceding assumes that the White Sox are operating at close to break-even from a cashflow perspective. As always, if they're minting cash off of it, that should stop and that cash should go into operations.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 11:11 AM
Depends. If you took a shot, and lost $$$ on it, then do you take a bigger one and assume the risk of losing more $$$? Or do you take the safer route and try to keep it near break-even, contend again, and if healthy - add at midseason? I agree that without taking a shot you're playing for second or a bit of a lucky/good-chemistry streak, but the financial side of things makes it more complicated than I'd prefer as a fan.

Note: The preceding assumes that the White Sox are operating at close to break-even from a cashflow perspective. As always, if they're minting cash off of it, that should stop and that cash should go into operations.
But how do you up the revenue stream without gaining season ticket holders in the off season? How do you do that without daring to be great?

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 11:13 AM
Nope, just a lack of commitment...

and bluntly speaking it's the commitment that proves how serious you are.
See - that's the major difference of opinion here. I don't see an unwillingness to go to any & all lengths as a lack of commitment. Did Tom Hicks have a lack of commitment when he didn't go get additional high-$$$ players after signing ARod & Park? If Steinbrenner doesn't go after Beltran, is he demonstrating a lack of commitment?

JR was willing to make one of, if not the richest contracts in baseball history. That says commitment to me, not going to the levels Hicks did says "not stupid" to me.

Defining commitment as "spending whatever it takes" is unrealistic, IMO.

jabrch
11-05-2004, 11:14 AM
If your team is so close to being successful and then you have some catastrophic injuries that cost you your shot, some might say, "add more talent and go for it again next year."

Obviously this year is a bit different, with Maggs status completely up in the air, but the solution to that is to sign a guy who can replace his production and then add more pieces. If last years team was close, then it is stupid to not put in the time, energy and money to put this years team over the top.

Otherwise, you are still playing for second...
It appears that this is exactly what we are doing - right? They payroll is almost surely going to be larger than it was last year at the start of the season - based on who we already added over last year's starting roster. The Sox are, by all reports, pursuing FAs and trades, including one more SP and a SS as well as bullpen options.

Are we going to get a #1 RF to replace Magglio? I doubt it. I don't think that's what we need. And I really don't like the options out there. Drew's injury history, Maggs current health status, Beltran's demands in both legnth of contract and total $, etc. make it not the best option to pursue. We can fill a lot of holes and have a very competitive team if we get a guy like Vizquel, a starter like Pavano/Clement/Lowe, and an arm in the pen.

I know - the skeptics like you want to see it first. And I understand that. And the JR haters out there (I don't lump you in that group - you seem more disillusioned than hateful) will hate him no matter what. And I agree - lets see it. But why completely write off the chance that he adds talent to make the team competitive, when he has done that before.

jabrch
11-05-2004, 11:15 AM
But how do you up the revenue stream without gaining season ticket holders in the off season? How do you do that without daring to be great?
I am not sure I have seen a correlation between spending and attendance with this team either.

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 11:17 AM
But how do you up the revenue stream without gaining season ticket holders in the off season? How do you do that without daring to be great?
That's the point. Daring to be great involves willing to be terrible (financially). This ownership group is apparently not willing to do that. As a fan I don't like it, but I can't say that I blame them for not wanting to take the risk since they assume it all.

Instead of daring to be great, they ensure that they're good, and then say "we'll make the moves to be great if things are working out". The assumption being that if they do that and it works, the offseason will take care of itself. Had they made the playoffs this year, we'd probably be talking about them resigning Maggs or getting Beltran (or a pitcher or whatever) using the extra revenues form attendance & playoffs.

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 11:20 AM
I am not sure I have seen a correlation between spending and attendance with this team either.
Bartolo Colon

Wealz
11-05-2004, 12:35 PM
If your team is so close to being successful and then you have some catastrophic injuries that cost you your shot, some might say, "add more talent and go for it again next year."

Obviously this year is a bit different, with Maggs status completely up in the air, but the solution to that is to sign a guy who can replace his production and then add more pieces. If last years team was close, then it is stupid to not put in the time, energy and money to put this years team over the top.

Otherwise, you are still playing for second...
This team isn't close, the best way to go would be to tear this team apart and start over. Would you be okay with that?

voodoochile
11-05-2004, 01:09 PM
This team isn't close, the best way to go would be to tear this team apart and start over. Would you be okay with that?
Depends. I don't think there is enough high level well developed talent in the minors to go that direction at present. Maybe in two years there will be if some of the players live up to their hype.

Right now, they need a CF (shifting Rowand to RF), a 3B/SS (expecting Uribe to be able to play the other position if Crede once again falls flat on his face), another top of the rotation starter and a couple of bullpen guys.

The key at this point is adding another peak years top 3 starting pitcher. If that happens they will at least make a run at the division title and that is important because it builds customer loyalty and sells tickets down the road.

Right now is the wrong time, IMO to tear the team apart. In a couple of years, when Frank retires or moves on or signs for less money, they can see where they stand, but at this point in time, the only player on the team signed past 2006 is Garcia, so I think they will be more likely to rebuild then.

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 01:25 PM
Right now is the wrong time, IMO to tear the team apart. In a couple of years, when Frank retires or moves on or signs for less money, they can see where they stand, but at this point in time, the only player on the team signed past 2006 is Garcia, so I think they will be more likely to rebuild then.
Agreed 10000%. Right now there are 2 options:
1)get a pitcher and some "spare parts" to fill in and make a run with a more balanced team.
2)get a franchise player like Beltran, make a run hoping your strengths are enough to overcome the holes, and then in a year or 2 as you start rebuilding, do it from a higher talent base.

Wealz
11-05-2004, 01:48 PM
Depends. I don't think there is enough high level well developed talent in the minors to go that direction at present. Maybe in two years there will be if some of the players live up to their hype.

Right now, they need a CF (shifting Rowand to RF), a 3B/SS (expecting Uribe to be able to play the other position if Crede once again falls flat on his face), another top of the rotation starter and a couple of bullpen guys.

The key at this point is adding another peak years top 3 starting pitcher. If that happens they will at least make a run at the division title and that is important because it builds customer loyalty and sells tickets down the road.

Right now is the wrong time, IMO to tear the team apart. In a couple of years, when Frank retires or moves on or signs for less money, they can see where they stand, but at this point in time, the only player on the team signed past 2006 is Garcia, so I think they will be more likely to rebuild then.By my count they need 3 major pieces. A bat equal to Ordonez (i.e. Drew, at least a $70M commitment.), a replacement for Crede (i.e. Koskie $15-$20M commitment), and a top-of-the-rotation starter (i.e. Johnson $16M commitment - Lee and Garland's salary it's about $6M) Add another $5-10M to fix the bullpen, 2nd base, and a 5th starter. That's roughly $95-100M in salary total, about $32-35M for 2005.

If the 2005 payroll isn't going to be raised to $100M this team might as well be torn apart.

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 01:59 PM
By my count they need 3 major pieces. A bat equal to Ordonez (i.e. Drew, at least a $70M commitment.), a replacement for Crede (i.e. Koskie $15-$20M commitment), and a top-of-the-rotation starter (i.e. Johnson $16M commitment - Lee and Garland's salary it's about $6M) Add another $5-10M to fix the bullpen, 2nd base, and a 5th starter. That's roughly $95-100M in salary total, about $32-35M for 2005.

If the 2005 payroll isn't going to be raised to $100M this team might as well be torn apart.
You WAY overpriced just about everything. Drew's likely to get 8mil/5 years, with his injury history and lack of performance, there's no way he gets Maggs/Vlady money. RJ would cost $16mil, but any other starter except maybe Pedro won't break $10mil. And Koskie made 4.5mil last year, and probably won't get that much unless it's a shorter deal. Say 4mil/3years = 12mil.

Drew (8) + Pavano (9) + Koskie (4) - Lee (8) - Garland (4) = 9mil increase.

Wealz
11-05-2004, 02:15 PM
You WAY overpriced just about everything. Drew's likely to get 8mil/5 years, with his injury history and lack of performance, there's no way he gets Maggs/Vlady money. RJ would cost $16mil, but any other starter except maybe Pedro won't break $10mil. And Koskie made 4.5mil last year, and probably won't get that much unless it's a shorter deal. Say 4mil/3years = 12mil.

Drew (8) + Pavano (9) + Koskie (4) - Lee (8) - Garland (4) = 9mil increase.
Drew is going to get more than $40M. He had an unbelievable regular season (Better than Beltran) and he'll be only 29 in '05. As far as injuries go, Vlad has a history of back problems, but he still got his money.

With the Yankees bidding for Pavano, I think he'll cost $45-$50M. Johnson is the a better target for the Sox.

Hangar18
11-05-2004, 02:22 PM
I am not sure I have seen a correlation between spending and attendance with this team either.
Carlton Fisk

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 02:22 PM
Drew is going to get more than $40M. He had an unbelievable regular season (Better than Beltran) and he'll be only 29 in '05. As far as injuries go, Vlad has a history of back problems, but he still got his money.

With the Yankees bidding for Pavano, I think he'll cost $45-$50M. Johnson is the a better target for the Sox.
JD Drew:

Has hit .300 twice in 6 full seasons
Has hit 30HR once
Has driven in 100 never
Has scored 100 once
Has not stolen more than 15 bases in 4 years
Has never played a season without missing 20+ games
Has missed 50+ games in 3 out of the past 6 years.

This is the guy that's going to get the same $$$ as Vlady, who's played a lot more and at a higher level or Maggs, who can say the same (assuming he's healthy - if not, he doesn't get 5/70 either)?:kukoo: He had a great year, but it's 1 year. The money you're talking about is what's being paid to guys who consistently put up the stats he did once.

If he gets anything close to $70mil, that would be more impressive on Boras' part than getting Hicks to bid against himself for ARod.

Wealz
11-05-2004, 02:36 PM
JD Drew:

Has hit .300 twice in 6 full seasons
Has hit 30HR once
Has driven in 100 never
Has scored 100 once
Has not stolen more than 15 bases in 4 years
Has never played a season without missing 20+ games
Has missed 50+ games in 3 out of the past 6 years.

This is the guy that's going to get the same $$$ as Vlady, who's played a lot more and at a higher level or Maggs, who can say the same (assuming he's healthy - if not, he doesn't get 5/70 either)?:kukoo: He had a great year, but it's 1 year. The money you're talking about is what's being paid to guys who consistently put up the stats he did once.

If he gets anything close to $70mil, that would be more impressive on Boras' part than getting Hicks to bid against himself for ARod.
Beltran has hit over .300 twice and hit more than 30 homers once in his career too. The two main reasons he'll get more money than Drew are he plays center and he's younger. The Sox don't need a CF'er so I'd almost rather they go after Drew.

Flight #24
11-05-2004, 02:53 PM
Beltran has hit over .300 twice and hit more than 30 homers once in his career too. The two main reasons he'll get more money than Drew are he plays center and he's younger. The Sox don't need a CF'er so I'd almost rather they go after Drew.
He's younger, has stolen 30+ bases 4 years in a row, plays just about every day, and plays gold glove D at a much tougher position. The reliability factor is huge when committing that type of $$$, and that's what will keep his price a lot lower.

Beltran > Maggs/Vlad > Drew is the salary ranking. JD will be int he 8-10range.

Wealz
11-05-2004, 03:42 PM
He's younger, has stolen 30+ bases 4 years in a row, plays just about every day, and plays gold glove D at a much tougher position. The reliability factor is huge when committing that type of $$$, and that's what will keep his price a lot lower.

Beltran > Maggs/Vlad > Drew is the salary ranking. JD will be int he 8-10range.
The market for Drew will be set by Beltran. If Beltran gets $160-$170, Drew will get $60-70M.

JKryl
11-05-2004, 04:39 PM
Then letting him walk 2 years later because he was too cheap to build a team around him that would actually compete. 1997 - not my favorite year as a Sox fan either.

Thanks for proving my point...
Then having the nads to try selling his jersey for $800 at Sox Fest, two years after he left the team.:bandance::supernana::bandance:

DumpJerry
11-05-2004, 05:14 PM
Then having the nads to try selling his jersey for $800 at Sox Fest, two years after he left the team.:bandance::supernana::bandance::angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

FightingBillini
11-05-2004, 07:12 PM
Maybe KW is letting people know who he supposedly wants to throw everyone off. A thought just came to me. Do you guys think he is really going after Beltre instead of Beltran? Beltre is great defensively, and huge offensively. I havent seen him play much, so I dont know that much about him. Im still not convinced that he is a superstar, and didnt just have one great year. I dont know if I would spend the money for him. If he had two great years, I definately would, but in that case, he would be much more highly coveted.

Ol' No. 2
11-05-2004, 09:54 PM
Maybe KW is letting people know who he supposedly wants to throw everyone off. A thought just came to me. Do you guys think he is really going after Beltre instead of Beltran? Beltre is great defensively, and huge offensively. I havent seen him play much, so I dont know that much about him. Im still not convinced that he is a superstar, and didnt just have one great year. I dont know if I would spend the money for him. If he had two great years, I definately would, but in that case, he would be much more highly coveted.Maybe someone should tell him that Beltre and Beltran are two different players.

Lip Man 1
11-06-2004, 01:44 PM
No. 2:

Now THAT's funny!

LOL

Lip