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View Full Version : Baines might be done as Bench Coach


Foulke You
11-03-2004, 01:25 AM
I aplogize if this has been posted already. Harold might be out as bench coach next year.

From the Sun-Times:

"In addition, bench coach Harold Baines said late in the season that his job was not as fulfilling as he had hoped. A change with one or both could come as early as Monday."


We know that the one change was Raines replacing Santana. I'd like to see former Sox and Marlins manager Jeff Torborg get the job. He is a friend of Ozzie and would have to be considered a candidate I would think. I'd like a veteran guy to be with Ozzie on the bench since the Oz man is still a little green.

santo=dorf
11-03-2004, 01:42 AM
Good Riddance. Make Sandy the bench coach.

batmanZoSo
11-03-2004, 01:59 AM
I aplogize if this has been posted already. Harold might be out as bench coach next year.

From the Sun-Times:

"In addition, bench coach Harold Baines said late in the season that his job was not as fulfilling as he had hoped. A change with one or both could come as early as Monday."


We know that the one change was Raines replacing Santana. I'd like to see former Sox and Marlins manager Jeff Torborg get the job. He is a friend of Ozzie and would have to be considered a candidate I would think. I'd like a veteran guy to be with Ozzie on the bench since the Oz man is still a little green.

Harold, we hardly knew ye. Till we meet again, old friend.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Floyd/Floyd.Images/Floyd.Bio.01.gif
"__________"

Ain't that the truth...

mdep524
11-03-2004, 02:58 AM
I aplogize if this has been posted already. Harold might be out as bench coach next year.

From the Sun-Times:

"In addition, bench coach Harold Baines said late in the season that his job was not as fulfilling as he had hoped. A change with one or both could come as early as Monday."


We know that the one change was Raines replacing Santana. I'd like to see former Sox and Marlins manager Jeff Torborg get the job. He is a friend of Ozzie and would have to be considered a candidate I would think. I'd like a veteran guy to be with Ozzie on the bench since the Oz man is still a little green.
Before I even read your post FY, I was going to mention Torborg would be a great choice for a bench coach. I really like Harold, but I'm not sure he was the best bench coach in the world. So unless Steve Stone decides he wants to be in the dugout and not the front office, I would be happy to see a guy like Torborg take the job .

SOXSINCE'70
11-03-2004, 08:17 AM
Harold Baines has never been the vocal type.
I can't see him as a bench coach.Maybe it's best
he step down now.In my mind,he was always the
"walk softly and carry a big stick" type.

SEALgep
11-03-2004, 09:50 AM
I know it probably won't happen, but wonder if Fisk gave it a go? Pretty sweet. Torborg as well, I was just trying to keep the reunion in tact. :D:

SoxFanTillDeath
11-03-2004, 09:57 AM
Harold Baines has never been the vocal type.
I can't see him as a bench coach.Maybe it's best
he step down now.In my mind,he was always the
"walk softly and carry a big stick" type.

First of all, it's "speak softly and carry a big stick."

Harold Baines was never considered a good pick for bench coach, and no one expected him to be around for very long. The idea was to bring back Sox players from Ozzie's era, and they did that. Here's hoping Baines is gone, and hopefully they replace him with someone who not only knows what he's doing, but also knows how to communicate that with the people around him.

SoxFanTillDeath
11-03-2004, 10:03 AM
I know it probably won't happen, but wonder if Fisk gave it a go? Pretty sweet. Torborg as well, I was just trying to keep the reunion in tact. :D:

:nolanventura

I say bring back ventura. Heck, he could even play 3rd base every other day so we wouldn't have to watch crede 162 times over there.

soxtalker
11-03-2004, 10:13 AM
Good Riddance. Make Sandy the bench coach.

Sandy would seem to be an obvious choice. However, what are the timing issues for him? He said that he wanted to continue playing, and the Sox have indicated that it won't be with them. When do the Sox need to name a replacement for Baines? On the other side of the equation, when would teams be expected to fill a back-up catcher role?

Hangar18
11-03-2004, 10:58 AM
Carlton Fisk as Bench Coach ........ wow that would be awesome.
I like the suggestion of Steve Stone as bench coach ....... THAT IS EXCELLENT.
THE SOX have to do something, anything, get Stone in the organization .....
somehow someway ......... GM, Coach, Churro Maker, something ......

ja1022
11-03-2004, 11:04 AM
How about Joe Nossek for bench coach.

LVSoxFan
11-03-2004, 11:05 AM
Can I ask a dumb question here? What does a bench coach actually do?

Besides replace Ozzie when he gets tossed?

Mickster
11-03-2004, 11:08 AM
Can I ask a dumb question here? What does a bench coach actually do?
Duh..... He coaches the bench! :smile:

mike squires
11-03-2004, 11:13 AM
My guess is that the bench coach is there to offer advice, steal signs, keep team morale up...kind of like an asistant coach in basketball...help out in practice etc. etc...I find it odd that Harold didn't find it satisfying. Maybe he's being pushed out??? I mean, what did he expect? I wish Harold well if in fact he leaves. I'm certain he will stay within the organization.

Joey Cora seems like a good choice. Hell, wasn't it the Mets that were interested in him? He likes to talk and keep the guys loose. I would miss him at third though.

I may be a little biased here but what about Mike Squires. Not sure if that would be up his alley though. Spanky got some print in the latest ESPN the magazine talking about scouts for both the RedSox and Cardinals.

Cora and Torborg would be awesome!

Hangar18
11-03-2004, 11:31 AM
Can I ask a dumb question here? What does a bench coach actually do?

Besides replace Ozzie when he gets tossed?
a bench coach basically gives the Manager another set of opinions
on in-game strategy.

Dolanski
11-03-2004, 01:08 PM
I aplogize if this has been posted already. Harold might be out as bench coach next year.

From the Sun-Times:

"In addition, bench coach Harold Baines said late in the season that his job was not as fulfilling as he had hoped. A change with one or both could come as early as Monday."


We know that the one change was Raines replacing Santana. I'd like to see former Sox and Marlins manager Jeff Torborg get the job. He is a friend of Ozzie and would have to be considered a candidate I would think. I'd like a veteran guy to be with Ozzie on the bench since the Oz man is still a little green.
Torborg? You mean a guy that screwed up the Marlins and had to be fired so that team could go one to win a World Series? You mean the same guy who has a history of blowing out young arms by over pitching them? You mean the same guy who was already fired and run out of town by Reinsdorf? Yeah, sign him up soon. Sounds like a really great guy to have in the organization...

SOXSINCE'70
11-03-2004, 01:12 PM
First of all, it's "speak softly and carry a big stick."

I stand corrected.

Lip Man 1
11-03-2004, 01:13 PM
Dolanski this is for you from the interview with Donn Pall:

ML: How about playing for Jeff Torborg. I take it from your earlier comments that he was the best manager you ever had.

DP: "He was. Jeff was a great communicator. Heíd make sure you knew exactly what he wanted you to do. Jeff treated everybody with respect, it didnít matter who you were or how long you were in the league. Itís funny but most managers donít spend a lot of time with pitchers. They usually leave that to the pitching coach, but Jeff was always talking with us."

ML: I had heard this and donít know if itís true. Maybe you could shed some light on it. I had heard that some members of the Sox upper organization felt that Jeff ruined Bobby Thigpen, that he used him too much and that was one of the reasons the Sox "encouraged" Jeff to take the Mets job, that if he, didnít he was going to get fired. Is that true?

DP: "I never heard that. I donít see how anybody could have felt that way. If anything Jeff took special care of all of his pitchers. We were in Seattle one time and Jeff told us before the game that no matter what happened, Bobby, Barry, and I, all the right handers, were not going into the game, that we could just shut it down. All of us had pitched two or three games in a row and Jeff said thatís enough. Those last three games, when we finished the season in Boston, and they were fighting for the division, Jeff told Bobby he wasnít going to be used. Bobby had already set the record and Jeff felt that was enough. And Bobby didnít pitch in those three games."

"Bobbyís trouble and I know the coaches told him about this many times, was that even if he was loose and ready, heíd keep throwing in the bullpen. If it was the last of the 8th and Bobby knew heíd be going in the next inning, heíd loosen up, but if the Sox had a long inning or scored three or four runs, Bobby would keep throwing! He wouldnít stop... I guess he was bullheaded that way. Bobby threw three times longer then he needed to and thatís what wore him out." (Authorís Note: Bobby went from 57 saves in 1990, to 30 in 1991, to 22 in 1992, to one before being traded to the Phillies on August 10, 1993 for pitcher Jose DeLeon.)

Lip

Brian26
11-03-2004, 01:31 PM
Torborg? You mean a guy that screwed up the Marlins and had to be fired so that team could go one to win a World Series? You mean the same guy who has a history of blowing out young arms by over pitching them? You mean the same guy who was already fired and run out of town by Reinsdorf? Yeah, sign him up soon. Sounds like a really great guy to have in the organization...

Also the same guy that took the worst team in the AL in 1989 to a finish with 94 wins in 1990. Sign him up!

NonetheLoaiza
11-03-2004, 03:02 PM
what about jerry manuel?

Dolanski
11-03-2004, 03:07 PM
Dolanski this is for you from the interview with Donn Pall:

ML: How about playing for Jeff Torborg. I take it from your earlier comments that he was the best manager you ever had.

DP: "He was. Jeff was a great communicator. Heíd make sure you knew exactly what he wanted you to do. Jeff treated everybody with respect, it didnít matter who you were or how long you were in the league. Itís funny but most managers donít spend a lot of time with pitchers. They usually leave that to the pitching coach, but Jeff was always talking with us."

ML: I had heard this and donít know if itís true. Maybe you could shed some light on it. I had heard that some members of the Sox upper organization felt that Jeff ruined Bobby Thigpen, that he used him too much and that was one of the reasons the Sox "encouraged" Jeff to take the Mets job, that if he, didnít he was going to get fired. Is that true?

DP: "I never heard that. I donít see how anybody could have felt that way. If anything Jeff took special care of all of his pitchers. We were in Seattle one time and Jeff told us before the game that no matter what happened, Bobby, Barry, and I, all the right handers, were not going into the game, that we could just shut it down. All of us had pitched two or three games in a row and Jeff said thatís enough. Those last three games, when we finished the season in Boston, and they were fighting for the division, Jeff told Bobby he wasnít going to be used. Bobby had already set the record and Jeff felt that was enough. And Bobby didnít pitch in those three games."

"Bobbyís trouble and I know the coaches told him about this many times, was that even if he was loose and ready, heíd keep throwing in the bullpen. If it was the last of the 8th and Bobby knew heíd be going in the next inning, heíd loosen up, but if the Sox had a long inning or scored three or four runs, Bobby would keep throwing! He wouldnít stop... I guess he was bullheaded that way. Bobby threw three times longer then he needed to and thatís what wore him out." (Authorís Note: Bobby went from 57 saves in 1990, to 30 in 1991, to 22 in 1992, to one before being traded to the Phillies on August 10, 1993 for pitcher Jose DeLeon.)

Lip
I guess I can't argue with Donn Paul, but just a few things to throw out for ya.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0511/1552112.html
Article on his firing from Florida

Also, in 11 seasons as a manager, he has finished above 500 twice, both season were in Chicago. And mind you

And I did read what Donn Paul had to say, but still, it doesn't speak well for Torborg when several pitchers with promising careers have spent significant time on the DL...

AJ Burnett
Ryan Dempster
Josh Beckett
Bobby Thigpen
Jack McDowell
Alex Fernandez
Wilson Alvarez

Yeah, some of these guys weren't his fault totally, but it does make one question how all of these pitchers were hurt early in their careers and all had Jeff Torborg as a manager at some point their early years. Obviously this is speculation, but add a history of overworking pitchers plus a list of pitchers whose careers ended early due to injury and you start to wonder...

I think only Dusty Baker has a worse reputation for overworking starters at this point. But Burnett was most defintely overworked. Burnett averaged 111 pitches per start the season before he had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Sounds like a very responsible manager to me.

Anyways, does a discussion of his managerial style and handling of pitchers really matter? He would only be a bench coach and not a manager. For that matter, who even sez he would come back and be the bench coach? I think the only manager that Jerry has any warm and fuzzy feelings about since they left was Tony LaRussa...

SEALgep
11-03-2004, 03:30 PM
I guess I can't argue with Donn Paul, but just a few things to throw out for ya.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0511/1552112.html
Article on his firing from Florida

Also, in 11 seasons as a manager, he has finished above 500 twice, both season were in Chicago. And mind you

And I did read what Donn Paul had to say, but still, it doesn't speak well for Torborg when several pitchers with promising careers have spent significant time on the DL...

AJ Burnett
Ryan Dempster
Josh Beckett
Bobby Thigpen
Jack McDowell
Alex Fernandez
Wilson Alvarez

Yeah, some of these guys weren't his fault totally, but it does make one question how all of these pitchers were hurt early in their careers and all had Jeff Torborg as a manager at some point their early years. Obviously this is speculation, but add a history of overworking pitchers plus a list of pitchers whose careers ended early due to injury and you start to wonder...

I think only Dusty Baker has a worse reputation for overworking starters at this point. But Burnett was most defintely overworked. Burnett averaged 111 pitches per start the season before he had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Sounds like a very responsible manager to me.

Anyways, does a discussion of his managerial style and handling of pitchers really matter? He would only be a bench coach and not a manager. For that matter, who even sez he would come back and be the bench coach? I think the only manager that Jerry has any warm and fuzzy feelings about since they left was Tony LaRussa...We wouldn't sign him up as a pitching coach. The guy obviously knows the game, and we have Coop to help Ozzie with the pitching staff.

SomebodyToldMe
11-03-2004, 03:36 PM
what about jerry manuel?
::slap::

soxfan26
11-03-2004, 03:41 PM
I aplogize if this has been posted already. Harold might be out as bench coach next year.

From the Sun-Times:

"In addition, bench coach Harold Baines said late in the season that his job was not as fulfilling as he had hoped. A change with one or both could come as early as Monday."


We know that the one change was Raines replacing Santana. I'd like to see former Sox and Marlins manager Jeff Torborg get the job. He is a friend of Ozzie and would have to be considered a candidate I would think. I'd like a veteran guy to be with Ozzie on the bench since the Oz man is still a little green.
Does anyone have a link for the story? I can't seem to find it.

TornLabrum
11-03-2004, 06:25 PM
First of all, it's "speak softly and carry a big stick."

First came the teal police.

Then came the grammar police.

Now it's the Bartlett's Familiar Quotations Police!

DumpJerry
11-03-2004, 07:14 PM
The Bench Coach is the Consigliere to the Manager for lack of a better word. The Bench Coach is someone who knows baseball like nobody else in the organization, he knows what will happen before it happens and how to make things happen.

Given this, Steve Stone would be the best Bench Coach in the history of MLB. This is because his knowledge of baseball is very deep and sophisticated. The very thing that got him in trouble with the Flubs is the thing that a Bench Coach is supposed to be doing. Telling it like it is and how to correct the problems and bring out the best in the team.

Daver
11-03-2004, 07:20 PM
Can I ask a dumb question here? What does a bench coach actually do?

Besides replace Ozzie when he gets tossed?
When Joe Nosseck was the bench coach his main job was being Jerry Reinsdorf's spy in the clubhouse.

Baby Fisk
11-04-2004, 12:11 PM
I know it probably won't happen, but wonder if Fisk gave it a go? Pretty sweet. Torborg as well, I was just trying to keep the reunion in tact. :D::worship: FISK!

...or Torborg. You know... whichever...

Foulke You
11-04-2004, 12:59 PM
Does anyone have a link for the story? I can't seem to find it.
Here is your link sir. Scroll down the the "Coaching Carousel" section:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox29.html

Brian26
11-04-2004, 01:43 PM
When Joe Nosseck was the bench coach his main job was being Jerry Reinsdorf's spy in the clubhouse.

I caught Nossek reading my mail the other day.

BlackSox
11-04-2004, 05:38 PM
Would Steve Stone be interested in being a Bench Coach? Wouldn't that involve taking a huge paycut from being an announcer?

Baby Fisk
11-04-2004, 05:41 PM
Would Steve Stone be interested in being a Bench Coach? Wouldn't that involve taking a huge paycut from being an announcer?Maybe it would be worth it for those 6 games vs the north side. :cool:

Foulke You
11-04-2004, 07:35 PM
Maybe it would be worth it for those 6 games vs the north side. :cool:
Would that ever be an odd sight...seeing Stone in a full White Sox uniform. It would be amusing for the crosstown series for sure.:cool: