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View Full Version : Is Frank's welcome worn out?


JKryl
11-02-2004, 09:10 AM
Greg Couch today (Chicago Sun-Times, Tues. Nov. 2, 2004, Pg 107) says that Frank has worn out his welcome with the Sox. Yet, after all his complaining, injuries, and arguing with management and the press, he still gets cheers when he does show up. Is it finally time for him to go? If the Sox need a breath of fresh air for next season, wouldn't dumping him get rid of most of the animosity on the team? What do you think?

Tekijawa
11-02-2004, 09:32 AM
Nope, it would be dumping one of the greatest hitters to ever wear a Whitesox Uniform.

Baby Fisk
11-02-2004, 09:34 AM
Many WSI posters voiced their unanimous opinion on this matter in this recent thread. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41367) Read it.

gosox41
11-02-2004, 09:50 AM
Greg Couch today (Chicago Sun-Times, Tues. Nov. 2, 2004, Pg 107) says that Frank has worn out his welcome with the Sox. Yet, after all his complaining, injuries, and arguing with management and the press, he still gets cheers when he does show up. Is it finally time for him to go? If the Sox need a breath of fresh air for next season, wouldn't dumping him get rid of most of the animosity on the team? What do you think?
Greg Couch can kiss a certain body part of mine. Then he can carry Joe Borchard's jock strap.



Bob

Hangar18
11-02-2004, 10:14 AM
Frank Thomas is one the of the SOX best hitters ...... in recent memory.

robertks61
11-02-2004, 10:25 AM
He'll be worn out when we hear about his boom box being smashed!

ChiSoxBobette
11-02-2004, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=JKryl]Greg Couch today (Chicago Sun-Times, Tues. Nov. 2, 2004, Pg 107) says that Frank has worn out his welcome with the Sox. Yet, after all his complaining, injuries, and arguing with management and the press, he still gets cheers when he does show up. Is it finally time for him to go? If the Sox need a breath of fresh air for next season, wouldn't dumping him get rid of most of the animosity on the team? What do you think?[/QUO

This is just more crap from the Sox hating media who don't even attend a game. They have to write a story about Shammee but spin it so A White Sox player also has to be involved. That story today in the Sun-Times could have just been about the great sosa but the media would'nt want to just write a story about ripping a scrub player they have to bring crap up about Frank Thomas from how long ago. The media in Chicago is a joke this couch guy, moronotti all of them. Whenever you read something in the paper critical of the scrubs there always has to be a refrence to a White Sox player or the team. Also sosa should have been run out of Chicago when that bat burst open and cork flew out of it but the Chicago media let it go but if that same thing happened to lets say Frank Thomas does anyone think there would have been a chicago sports reporter who would have defended him.

bahn1225
11-02-2004, 11:20 AM
IMHO:

Couch was just doing another Sammy Soso story so he figured he throw some others under the bus as well.
It would take someone who actually paid attenion to the team over the last few years (AKA knowledge) to give examples of those that really were an embarrassment.

I think we can all name names. . .

LVSoxFan
11-02-2004, 11:33 AM
I thought, going into 2004, that Thomas had worn out his welcome and was an overpaid prima donna who was bringing the club down with his me-first attitude, and diminished skills.

But Ozzie seemed to know how to deal with him and--lo and behold--Frank was not only productive before he was injured, he was also getting non-HR hits and had a killer on-base percentage. He seemed to be right in the thick of it when the Sox were shelling everybody in the first half.

Frank's coming back, like it or not--but I don't think he's been a bad influence at all since Ozzie showed up. Ozzie won't take that sh*t from anybody. I think Frank had worn out his welcome, but that he redeemed himself. Fans have short memories.

Unlike Sosa, who has burned all bridges. The Cubs are completely screwed, because if they keep him, he'll be a poison in the clubhouse. To get rid of him, though, they have to eat huge salary. So what, get rid of him; it will be worth the money. When you've got Kerry Wood smashing Sosa's boombox that last day with a baseball bat, I'd say that's a pretty good indicator you're not wanted back by your teammates.

Justafan
11-02-2004, 11:39 AM
Frank Thomas will retire on the south side, as he should.

ondafarm
11-02-2004, 11:51 AM
Succintly, NO.

Kilroy
11-02-2004, 11:51 AM
I thought, going into 2004, that Thomas had worn out his welcome and was an overpaid prima donna who was bringing the club down with his me-first attitude, and diminished skills.
This idea was BS before Ozzie, and its BS now.

LVSoxFan
11-02-2004, 11:54 AM
This idea was BS before Ozzie, and its BS now.
Read the rest of the post; I said that I think Frank is a keeper.

Kilroy
11-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Read the rest of the post; I said that I think Frank is a keeper.
I'm aware of that. But I don't think Ozzie had anything do with it.

soxtalker
11-02-2004, 12:13 PM
Before any of Frank's many supporters get outraged, I'd suggest that they read the column (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg02.html). There are only a few sentences about Frank, and they look pretty accurate to me. It is largely an article about Sosa and his fall from popularity. Regarding Frank, many fans have reacted negatively to him when he's complained. It doesn't sound to me like Couch is saying that Frank has worn out his welcome. In fact, he even indicates that Frank's popularity has revived somewhat.

nlentz88
11-02-2004, 12:28 PM
Before any of Frank's many supporters get outraged, I'd suggest that they read the column (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg02.html). There are only a few sentences about Frank, and they look pretty accurate to me. It is largely an article about Sosa and his fall from popularity. Regarding Frank, many fans have reacted negatively to him when he's complained. It doesn't sound to me like Couch is saying that Frank has worn out his welcome. In fact, he even indicates that Frank's popularity has revived somewhat.
Well said. I read the article first thing this morning (I was so surprised to see a Sox article at all, not to mention one with pictures!) and didn't think it was too critical of Frank. I'm a big fan of Big Frank, but even I have to admit that he's made some PR gaffs. Personally, I think he's misunderstood and a lot of his past controversial comments were taken out of context. Regardless, I thought the article did a good job analyzing Chicago fans and our forgiveness of some players and our rage at others.

Couch is probably my favorite write for the Sun Times. He's always come across as fair and intelligent. He was pretty much the only writer in town following the Premium ticket scandal. And how he's written a good article about the crapfest that is the Sosa situation. I think he talks about Frank so that the reader can see how much worse Sosa is and how much the team needs to dump him.

Baby Fisk
11-02-2004, 12:29 PM
It doesn't sound to me like Couch is saying that Frank has worn out his welcome. In fact, he even indicates that Frank's popularity has revived somewhat.:hurt
"Don't call it a comeback. I been here for years!"

Gammons Peter
11-02-2004, 12:33 PM
Frank Thomas will retire on the south side, as he should.Unless Frank hits 64 homeruns this year (500 for career) he will not retire as a White Sox player because he will not be retained after this year

Lip Man 1
11-02-2004, 12:35 PM
Soxtalker:

You have to remember reading is a lost art to some of our brothers.

Lip

pinwheels3530
11-02-2004, 12:42 PM
The media is trying to make Frank look bad again...............I think there upset because their beloved Sammy Sosa has been exposed as a fraud!

oneil78
11-02-2004, 12:47 PM
This idea was BS before Ozzie, and its BS now.
I'm sick of Frank and have been sick of him for years now. But that doesn't mean you trade him.

wdelaney72
11-02-2004, 12:53 PM
I'm sick of Frank and have been sick of him for years now. But that doesn't mean you trade him.I totally agree. Frank tries to keep his mouth shut, but ultimately fails and says something stupid. He's never dogged it or been a quitter, though, which is why most Sox fans still love him.

I question his health and the fact that we're going to have $8 million on a player who may not be able to stay healthy. I don't think he's worn out his welcome. When he plays, he's always been productive.

This is just the media being themselves.

balke
11-02-2004, 12:56 PM
What exactly did Frank do or say that everyone complains about being so horrible? It must be a Chicago thing, cause I never heard or read what he said that was so bad. Where does "whiner" come from? IF it was Frank at some point complaining that he seems to be the only one out there playing, then getting dogged on if he goes 0-4 one night.. then why not whine. For as long as I can remember, a typical White Sox win includes Frank Thomas doing something big. These past two years were the only two years I considered there to be anyone else on the team who could produce enough offensively to win w/o Frank. Frank has always been the winner on this team. He's won many a game single-handedly when the rest of the team combines for less hits then he does.

IF anyone has the time, I'd really like to know what he said or did that was so bad. To think that he's any worse than having Albert Belle on the team, or Barry Bonds is somewhat hard to imagine. There's a lot worse people in baseball than Frank Thomas, I can guarantee you. I can see him being a target to the media, since he does the smart thing and avoids them at all costs.

ondafarm
11-02-2004, 01:47 PM
Frank has always had a major beef with the umpires and the Questec system has shown that its absolutely legit on Frank's part. He was the only hitter in 2004 (I'm still compiling 2005 numbers [okay, the abacus is broken]) who hit more than 30 points higher in road Questec parks than road non-Questec parks. He also was never called out on strikes in a Q road park, but was plenty of times in non-Q parks. He's always had a fantastic eye and the hatred by the boys in blue has cost him probably 20 points off his career BA not to mention 40 OBP and 30 SLG points career. Whats an extra 30 SLG points career for Frank Thomas? Given fair umpiring he'd be at 500 homeruns now. If I was cheated on that scale, then I think I'd be pretty edgy towards the owner and the fans.

Deadguy
11-02-2004, 01:55 PM
I totally agree. Frank tries to keep his mouth shut, but ultimately fails and says something stupid.
I agree with this. He's need to stop talking to the media, permanently. Interacting with the media has done far more harm to Thomas than it has to just about any other player. All most of us care about is that he produces and that he is fan friendly. The media and the haters love it when FT sticks his foot in his mouth, and its not a question of if he will say something stupid, just when.


I question his health and the fact that we're going to have $8 million on a player who may not be able to stay healthy. I don't think he's worn out his welcome. When he plays, he's always been productive.

This is something that I'm very worried about as well. This injury has immobilized Frank to the point that he can do ZERO cardiovascular excercises, as he waits for his ankle to heal. This means that for Thomas to maintain his weight or even lose weight, he is going to have to cut down his daily intake of calories. With his weight being so instrumental in terms of him being able to deal with this injury for a few more seasons, and perform at a certain level, I worry about Thomas arriving at camp close to 300 lbs and not being able to get back to 100% for quite some time, if ever again.

Thomas works hard in the off season, but maybe he needs to work out differently now that he is 36, as opposed to 26. I don't know what his work out routine is or whether it has remained constant through the years, but I'd hope he concentrates on shedding some weight so that he can play until he is 40.

balke
11-02-2004, 02:00 PM
I worry about Thomas arriving at camp close to 300 lbs and not being able to get back to 100% for quite some time, if ever again.

Thomas works hard in the off season, but maybe he needs to work out differently now that he is 36, as opposed to 26. I don't know what his work out routine is or whether it has remained constant through the years, but I'd hope he concentrates on shedding some weight so that he can play until he is 40.He looked great this year. Best shape I'd seen him in, for a while. But yeah, that's the bad thing about injuries, weaker muscles, fatty wieght gain, dealing with running on a healing ankle, not swinging the bat for so long. He's going to struggle next season for sure.

hold2dibber
11-02-2004, 02:04 PM
Unless Frank hits 64 homeruns this year (500 for career) he will not retire as a White Sox player because he will not be retained after this year
Actually, if he does not hit 64 homeruns this (next) year, I think there's a better chance he'll be retained for '06. For example, if Frank stays healthy and cranks 40 taters, he'll be at 476, just 24 away from 500. I think the Sox would have to think long and hard about cutting him lose, only to see him hit no. 500 elsewhere. That would be a huge PR gaffe. I think if he gets close to 500 next year, they'll keep him around in '06. If he's hurt or ineffective next year, making 500 in '06 a long shot, then they'll cut him loose.

RKMeibalane
11-02-2004, 02:11 PM
Actually, if he does not hit 64 homeruns this (next) year, I think there's a better chance he'll be retained for '06. For example, if Frank stays healthy and cranks 40 taters, he'll be at 476, just 24 away from 500. I think the Sox would have to think long and hard about cutting him lose, only to see him hit no. 500 elsewhere. That would be a huge PR gaffe. I think if he gets close to 500 next year, they'll keep him around in '06. If he's hurt or ineffective next year, making 500 in '06 a long shot, then they'll cut him loose.
I agree. Jerry Reinsdorf is a huge Frank fan, and as long as the big guy is productive at the plate, he will remain part of the Sox organization. However, if Frank struggles next season or has a setback with his ankle injury, it's likely that the Sox would probably not re-sign Frank following 2005. I would probably do the same thing. In terms of baseball tradiation, it would mean a lot to see Frank Thomas play his entire career on the South Side. Having said that, I can also appreciate the Sox not wanting to have injury-prone players on their roster. I think that the same can be said for the situation with Magglio Ordonez.

jabrch
11-02-2004, 02:16 PM
Someone refresh my memory...what's his contract situation? I know he excercised his option for this year - but what's left?

Kilroy
11-02-2004, 02:33 PM
Soxtalker:

You have to remember reading is a lost art to some of our brothers.

Lip
Well, since you decided to take it here, let me point out that while the articles may be saying one thing, the paper is certainly implying another. The back page has the headline FALLEN IDOLS with a subhead that reads SAMMY SOSA MAY BE JOINING FRANK THOMAS AS AN ICON WHO HAS WORN OUT HIS WELCOME WITH USUALLY FORGIVING CHICAGO FANS. These headlines are accompanied by a large color pic of Scammy, and a smaller color pic of Frank.

In the news section of the paper, there's a teaser about the article with face shots of Scammy and Frank with the small head or WORN OUT THEIR WELCOME. Then below that it reads "It isnt easy for a sports hero to drop from favor here in Chicago, but some manage it."

How many people won't read Mariotti (got my hand up) or Couch and have the idea that those articles say that Frank has worn out his welcome along w/ Scammy?

Plenty. So don't just accuse people of not being able to get the point from the articles.

Brian26
11-02-2004, 02:36 PM
Greg Couch today (Chicago Sun-Times, Tues. Nov. 2, 2004, Pg 107) says that Frank has worn out his welcome with the Sox. Yet, after all his complaining, injuries, and arguing with management and the press, he still gets cheers when he does show up. Is it finally time for him to go? If the Sox need a breath of fresh air for next season, wouldn't dumping him get rid of most of the animosity on the team? What do you think?

Could this series of statements being any more ridiculous? Seriously. Talk about a guy looking to create a story. Couch should be run out of town for BS stuff like this.

soxtalker
11-02-2004, 02:58 PM
Well, since you decided to take it here, let me point out that while the articles may be saying one thing, the paper is certainly implying another. The back page has the headline FALLEN IDOLS with a subhead that reads SAMMY SOSA MAY BE JOINING FRANK THOMAS AS AN ICON WHO HAS WORN OUT HIS WELCOME WITH USUALLY FORGIVING CHICAGO FANS. These headlines are accompanied by a large color pic of Scammy, and a smaller color pic of Frank.

In the news section of the paper, there's a teaser about the article with face shots of Scammy and Frank with the small head or WORN OUT THEIR WELCOME. Then below that it reads "It isnt easy for a sports hero to drop from favor here in Chicago, but some manage it."

How many people won't read Mariotti (got my hand up) or Couch and have the idea that those articles say that Frank has worn out his welcome along w/ Scammy?

Plenty. So don't just accuse people of not being able to get the point from the articles.


Well, that is interesting! I didn't see the actual paper copy -- only the web site -- and, as I indicated, I didn't find it particularly antagonistic toward Frank. It is understandable that you'd get an entirely different impression seeing the headline and picture.

I'm not an expert on newspapers, but I suspect that the headline and teaser line were added later by people other than the author of the column (Couch). And if that's true, the natural question is why an editor (or whoever is in charge of headlines and taglines) would jump to that conclusion from the article. One guess is that it would draw tend to draw Sox fans to the article, while a pure Sosa article would not.

Frankfan4life
11-02-2004, 07:27 PM
Could this series of statements being any more ridiculous? Seriously. Talk about a guy looking to create a story. Couch should be run out of town for BS stuff like this.I totally agree. The news media is all about controversy. If none exists, then they try to create it.

Frank Thomas should not even be mentioned in the same story as that cheating, lying, roid-riddled, bag of scum, SamME Sosa.

soxwon
11-02-2004, 07:33 PM
Frank Thomas will retire on the south side, as he should.

Say frank hits 550 hrs will he make the Hall?

RKMeibalane
11-02-2004, 07:51 PM
Say frank hits 550 hrs will he make the Hall?
I think he is a HOF'er right now, but that's just me. I'm sure there are number of sportswriters who will hold the DH rule against him. At the same time, I also think that once the truth is revealed about players and steroid use, Frank's chances of reaching the HOF will increase, because most people I've talked with believe that Thomas is one of the few players who has never used steroids. Frank accomplishing what he has without cheating says a lot about just how talented he really is.

guillen4life13
11-02-2004, 09:10 PM
Greg Couch today (Chicago Sun-Times, Tues. Nov. 2, 2004, Pg 107) says that Frank has worn out his welcome with the Sox. Yet, after all his complaining, injuries, and arguing with management and the press, he still gets cheers when he does show up. Is it finally time for him to go? If the Sox need a breath of fresh air for next season, wouldn't dumping him get rid of most of the animosity on the team? What do you think?
No he hasn't.

OEO Magglio
11-02-2004, 09:25 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen this yet.

:threadsucks

SomebodyToldMe
11-02-2004, 09:53 PM
I'm surprised I haven't seen this yet.

:threadsucks
The thread doesn't suck. I think the article might deserve that tag.

Daver
11-02-2004, 10:16 PM
I think he is a HOF'er right now, but that's just me. I'm sure there are number of sportswriters who will hold the DH rule against him. At the same time, I also think that once the truth is revealed about players and steroid use, Frank's chances of reaching the HOF will increase, because most people I've talked with believe that Thomas is one of the few players who has never used steroids. Frank accomplishing what he has without cheating says a lot about just how talented he really is.
Since when has being drug free have anything to do with getting into the HOF?

Especially the baseball HOF, where a group of opinionated old men control who gets in and who doesn't?

RKMeibalane
11-02-2004, 10:57 PM
Since when has being drug free have anything to do with getting into the HOF?

Especially the baseball HOF, where a group of opinionated old men control who gets in and who doesn't?
My point had more to do with the fact that Frank was able to put up big numbers without cheating. That should matter to people. OTOH, there are a number of stupid sports writers out there.