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View Full Version : How about Matt Clement?


thezeker
10-31-2004, 08:25 PM
A good friend and I were discussing the 2005 season and he brought up a name I have not seen discussed much on this board?

Matt Clement. He just could be the pitcher we are looking for. Here are a few of his 2004 stats:
Games: 30
Innnings: 181.0
Hits : 155
Earned Runs :64
Walks: 77
Strikeouts: 190
ERA: 3.68

Those numbers would look very good on our staff. His strikeout to innings ratio is very impressive. He would make a solid #3 behind Garcia and Buehrle. This would move Contreras and Garland down to 4 and 5 which is probably closer to where they belong and make them more effective.

I know he is a free agent and wonder what he will go for on the market. With a few other moves I can see good things on the South Side next year. I'd really like that starting pitching staff!!

MRKARNO
10-31-2004, 08:28 PM
Did you see him at all in August and September last year? Not a pretty sight.

Shingotime!!
10-31-2004, 08:32 PM
Did you see him at all in August and September last year? Not a pretty sight. Yes this only proves that he can be had for cheeper. The bad part bout him is he can get wild. Im not sure how many batters he hit but its alot!

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2004, 08:35 PM
Look at his career numbers. They're not quite so pretty. He's been below 4.0 ERA only twice in 6 years. It doesn't matter what he did last year. It matters what he's going to do next year. And chances are pretty good he's going to revert to his career numbers: 4.34 ERA (remember, this is a NL ERA).

MRKARNO
10-31-2004, 08:36 PM
Yes this only proves that he can be had for cheeper. The bad part bout him is he can get wild. Im not sure how many batters he hit but its alot!

He's not going to do well if he became a White Sox. I can't see him posting a sub 4.3 ERA with us, especially considering his wildness.

munchman33
10-31-2004, 08:37 PM
The ESPN rumor mill has him going to the Indians, who have apparently made him their number one target this offseason. Need insider to access.

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/rumorcentral?sport=mlb

santo=dorf
10-31-2004, 08:39 PM
The ESPN rumor mill has him going to the Indians, who have apparently made him their number one target this offseason. Need insider to access.

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/rumorcentral?sport=mlb
I've been reading from the Twins and Indians' boards that the Indians have offered Radke 3 year $27 million deal whereas the Twins are only offering a 2 year $15 million dollar deal. The Indians will go after Clement or Lowe if they can't get Radke.

munchman33
10-31-2004, 08:45 PM
Something else interesting about that ESPN rumor mill: it has us listed as one of the suitors of Carl Pavano. The others are the Red Sox, Yankees, and Mets.

SoxFan76
10-31-2004, 08:47 PM
Don't forget to add a run to those NL ERAs. Clement is a 4 or 5. Either way he would make the rotation better. But I have been hoping for a 2 or 3 caliber pitcher.

CubKilla
10-31-2004, 08:51 PM
Something else interesting about that ESPN rumor mill: it has us listed as one of the suitors of Carl Pavano.Probably only because of his ties w/Ozzie when OG coached the Marlins.

I would love to see Clement on Chicago's Southside in '05 pending a work-up on his upper right arm and upper back. IMHO, he'd leap-frog Contreras and Garland for the #3 spot.

F. Garcia
M. Buehrle
M. Clement
J. Contreras
J. Garland

Not too shabby. Use what's left by signing a Clement over, say, a Pavano and sink it into more BP depth.

munchman33
10-31-2004, 09:08 PM
Honestly, if Pavano wants to be here, even if its only to play for Ozzie, I think the White Sox should do anything and everything they can to make it happen. Free agents of his quality rarely want to come here, and it would be a mistake to pass it up.

That makes our rotation:

Pavano
Garcia
Buerhle
Contreras
Garland

Might be the best in baseball.

FightingBillini
10-31-2004, 09:41 PM
I agree with Munchman. Pavano is arguably the top free agent pitcher. We have heard reports that he doesn't want to play for a team on the east coast, so that would eliminate the other bidders, if true. I think people are too quick to discount the fact that several players really will come here to play for Ozzie. He is a players coach, though he isn't an apologist like Dusty.

hitlesswonder
10-31-2004, 10:13 PM
Don't forget to add a run to those NL ERAs. Clement is a 4 or 5. Either way he would make the rotation better. But I have been hoping for a 2 or 3 caliber pitcher.
Switching from the NL to AL isn't a whole run, IMO. The league average ERAs last year were AL 4.63 and NL 4.30. And Clement has pitched pretty well the last 3 years. WHIPs of around 1.2 and BAA around .230. He's not a big time fly ball pitcher either. If he came cheap (around 4 million or so maybe?), I think he'd be worth the risk, just my opinion. That's assuming he passes a physical, because something was obviously wrong at the end of the season

nitetrain8601
10-31-2004, 10:18 PM
Honestly, I think Pavano is the Loaiza of this past year. Let's look at the facts before you burn me. Up to this year, he's been a #5 starter his whole career. He was projected to be an ace and was highly regarded when traded for Pedro, but did nothing until this year. His lowest ERA prior to this year was 3.06 as a reliever in Montreal. His ERA stats:

1998(Montreal) - 4.21
1999(Montreal) - 5.63
2000(Montreal) - 3.06[reliever]
2001(Montreal) - 6.33[reliever]
2002(Florida) - 3.79[reliever]
2002(Montreal) - 6.30[reliever]
2003(Florida) - 4.30
2004(Florida) - 3.00

If anything else, it looks like he's ratherly inconsistent. To give big money to a player, he has to be consistent. Pavano has shown everything else but that. Mind you this has been in the National League. Am I just paranoid?? I mean if we could get Pavano on the cheap, then good, but I don't think he's worth the money I'm hearing he's worth.

MRKARNO
10-31-2004, 10:36 PM
Switching from the NL to AL isn't a whole run, IMO. The league average ERAs last year were AL 4.63 and NL 4.30. And Clement has pitched pretty well the last 3 years. WHIPs of around 1.2 and BAA around .230. He's not a big time fly ball pitcher either. If he came cheap (around 4 million or so maybe?), I think he'd be worth the risk, just my opinion. That's assuming he passes a physical, because something was obviously wrong at the end of the season

The difference between the NL and pitching half of your games at US Cellular field is easily a run. Clement has such a terrible arm motion for his slider that it puts him in a risky situation health-wise. His lack of control is truly awful as well. He's always walked a ton of batters and that will come back to bite you in the rear

bigfoot
10-31-2004, 11:07 PM
Wasn't Clement shutdown for the last 2-3 weeks of the season, when the Blue Plague needed pitching in the worst way? This has the odor of shoulder/elbow damage written all over it. Any others in agreement, or otherwise informed?

samram
10-31-2004, 11:08 PM
Honestly, I think Pavano is the Loaiza of this past year.


I think Chris Carpenter will get the Loaiza Award, but I can see Pavano being in the running. I think Radke, if he can be had, is a better choice. As for Clement, the guy is an arm injury waiting to happen. His motion is going to lead to elbow problems at some point. Furthermore, he's been known as a guy with an attitude problem, and I don't think that will fly with OG.

OEO Magglio
10-31-2004, 11:20 PM
Honestly, I think Pavano is the Loaiza of this past year. Let's look at the facts before you burn me. Up to this year, he's been a #5 starter his whole career. He was projected to be an ace and was highly regarded when traded for Pedro, but did nothing until this year. His lowest ERA prior to this year was 3.06 as a reliever in Montreal. His ERA stats:

1998(Montreal) - 4.21
1999(Montreal) - 5.63
2000(Montreal) - 3.06[reliever]
2001(Montreal) - 6.33[reliever]
2002(Florida) - 3.79[reliever]
2002(Montreal) - 6.30[reliever]
2003(Florida) - 4.30
2004(Florida) - 3.00

If anything else, it looks like he's ratherly inconsistent. To give big money to a player, he has to be consistent. Pavano has shown everything else but that. Mind you this has been in the National League. Am I just paranoid?? I mean if we could get Pavano on the cheap, then good, but I don't think he's worth the money I'm hearing he's worth.

I don't, pavano is an absolute stud now. Just watch the guy pitch, he's the real deal, he's been the one guy I've wanted the sox to pursue the whole time, however I think he'll end up on the bosox.

kittle42
11-01-2004, 10:32 AM
I don't, pavano is an absolute stud now. Just watch the guy pitch, he's the real deal, he's been the one guy I've wanted the sox to pursue the whole time, however I think he'll end up on the bosox.
Loaiza looked pretty good in 2003, too. I bet some said the same of him.

mdep524
11-01-2004, 01:14 PM
No on Clement. Pavano would be nice, but overpriced and a bit overhyped. Radke is the answer, though it seems like a lot of teams will be bidding for him (Twins, Indians, Red Sox so far).

Slow Mike
11-01-2004, 01:26 PM
Russ Ortiz is probably the safest bet of all the affordable available pitchers on the market. WIth the White Sox limited resources, I think that he is most likely to be signed. Clement may have similar market value, but like everyone is saying, he is an arm injury waiting to happen and carries a much bigger liability than Ortiz. Pavano, who will be more expensive, has only had one dominant year and carries a risk too in that sense. Derek Lowe has been somewhat erratic, and Pedro will be quite expensive. The White Sox need a number three pitcher, and Ortiz would fill that role real well considering how solid he has been for the past four years. I think that he is the most realistic of anyone to come to the Sox, with Brad Radke probably second most likely for similar reasons (IE: price, past few year accomplishments, etc). Just my opinion.


Slow Mike

34 Inch Stick
11-01-2004, 01:38 PM
When KW likes a player, it seems he will pursue that player his entire career. This leads me to believe he will be going after Ortiz or Odalis Perez. Neither of these two is bad.

JRIG
11-01-2004, 01:50 PM
When KW likes a player, it seems he will pursue that player his entire career. This leads me to believe he will be going after Ortiz or Odalis Perez. Neither of these two is bad.
Ortiz, IMO, would be disaster in U.S. Cellular. His ERA+ have been right about league average the past three years, he walks way too many batters, and has thrived pitching in some good pitcher's parks over the past few years.

He's a guy that will be overpriced in free agency.

mdep524
11-01-2004, 01:52 PM
Russ Ortiz is probably the safest bet of all the affordable available pitchers on the market. WIth the White Sox limited resources, I think that he is most likely to be signed. Clement may have similar market value, but like everyone is saying, he is an arm injury waiting to happen and carries a much bigger liability than Ortiz. Pavano, who will be more expensive, has only had one dominant year and carries a risk too in that sense. Derek Lowe has been somewhat erratic, and Pedro will be quite expensive. The White Sox need a number three pitcher, and Ortiz would fill that role real well considering how solid he has been for the past four years. I think that he is the most realistic of anyone to come to the Sox, with Brad Radke probably second most likely for similar reasons (IE: price, past few year accomplishments, etc). Just my opinion.


Slow Mike
Hey Mike, welcome to WSI! :redneck

You're right that Russ Ortiz might be an affordable alternative. There is some concern, however, about how he would fare moving from Atlanta to the most HR friendly park in the AL, considering his groundball-to-flyball ratio and his propensity for giving up HRs and walks.

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2004, 01:59 PM
Hey Mike, welcome to WSI! :redneck

You're right that Russ Ortiz might be an affordable alternative. There is some concern, however, about how he would fare moving from Atlanta to the most HR friendly park in the AL, considering his groundball-to-flyball ratio and his propensity for giving up HRs and walks.Ortiz has a G/F ratio of 1.2. What's wrong with that?