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View Full Version : Offseason Moves to think/ponder


Terry21fg
10-29-2004, 11:19 AM
The 2004 White Sox were not a bad team, nor a good team, minor changes should make this team competitive. Here's what I propose:

When Sexson doesn't resign with Arizona, we ship Konerko out for the big unit (move Lee to first base). Next move is to make a run at either Beltran or Steve Finley either one, obviously Finley is the cheaper of the two players. Next you sign Omar Visquel to play short stop. I think these three moves, plus a little bullpen help...which could be acquired with minor league players or little trades. As an added benefit, the payroll will barely move with the loss of Maggs (14 mil), Valentine (5 mil) and Konerko (8-12 mil??) off the books.
Linup should shape up like this:

Visquel SS
Rowand LF
Beltran/Finley CF
Thomas DH
Lee 1B
Everett RF
Crede 3B
Harris 2B
Davis/Burke C

Buerhle
Garcia
Johnson
Contraras
Garland
On paper, it's a much better team then last year.

GAsoxfan
10-29-2004, 12:05 PM
I think Finley wants to stay on the West Coast.

Flight #24
10-29-2004, 12:06 PM
As long as we're going to discuss Valentine and Visquel, can we include Mientkeihueiwuthshurthrcz?

ondafarm
10-29-2004, 12:07 PM
Two comments:


If you thought Konerko wasn't Gold Glove material at first, try Carlos Lee there.

Valdez will be the 2005 starting shortstop.

GAsoxfan
10-29-2004, 12:18 PM
Valdez will be the 2005 starting shortstop.
You're kidding, right?

Brian26
10-29-2004, 12:47 PM
Signing both Vizquel and Finley points this club in the wrong direction. Both guys are on the downside of their careers, around the age of 40.

soxfan26
10-29-2004, 12:49 PM
<yawn>

santo=dorf
10-29-2004, 01:01 PM
As long as we're going to discuss Valentine and Visquel, can we include Mientkeihueiwuthshurthrcz?
You forgot to mention "Contraras!"

:reinsy
"Who's paying for all of these players?"

lowesox
10-30-2004, 12:43 AM
I haven't posted here in a couple months, so I'm sorry if what I'm about to write has been written a thousand times:

But when I hear this nonsense about us getting Vizquel and Johnson I can't help but yawn and say, "well Kenny's about to screw up again." It seems like one bad acquisition after another for Kenny. I'm still reeling for our masterful acquisition of Contreras and his big fact contract that not even the Yankees could stand. Now we're going to go out and get two guys who are over the hill. Please.

Could somebody please inform Kenny that, just because a player's name is a little more recognizeable than another player's doesn't make him a winning acquisition.

And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.

nodiggity59
10-30-2004, 12:49 AM
And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.
While I agree with most of what you said, do you really think that Frank and Maggs shouldn't have been on our team? I think they were both great to have and we were dealt a serious blow when they went down. Now, Everret's bad health is different b/c, as you say, we shouldn't have even had guys like him. However, the main reason we lost this year was losing Frank and Maggs, and since they're both quality you have to let KW slide on this one.

Rex Hudler
10-30-2004, 12:55 AM
I haven't posted here in a couple months, so I'm sorry if what I'm about to write has been written a thousand times:

But when I hear this nonsense about us getting Vizquel and Johnson I can't help but yawn and say, "well Kenny's about to screw up again." It seems like one bad acquisition after another for Kenny. I'm still reeling for our masterful acquisition of Contreras and his big fact contract that not even the Yankees could stand. Now we're going to go out and get two guys who are over the hill. Please.

Could somebody please inform Kenny that, just because a player's name is a little more recognizeable than another player's doesn't make him a winning acquisition.

And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.
Seems like a lot of "over-the-hill" guys are producing reasonably. Guys like Clemens, Bonds and Johnson are still at least somewhat respectable after 40, don't ya think??

Tragg
10-30-2004, 01:12 AM
I haven't posted here in a couple months, so I'm sorry if what I'm about to write has been written a thousand times:

But when I hear this nonsense about us getting Vizquel and Johnson I can't help but yawn and say, "well Kenny's about to screw up again." It seems like one bad acquisition after another for Kenny. I'm still reeling for our masterful acquisition of Contreras and his big fact contract that not even the Yankees could stand. Now we're going to go out and get two guys who are over the hill. Please.

Could somebody please inform Kenny that, just because a player's name is a little more recognizeable than another player's doesn't make him a winning acquisition.

And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.I don't think the Contreras trade was all that bad; the Everett trade was pitiful, though and exposes KW's weakness for over-the hill ballplayers.

KW makes a lot of good moves, but some not so good ones. This year is critical and will test his negoitiating skills. We need to stick to players $6 millish and below because we really need several of them (we have many weaknesses) and we need the flexibility. Our solid power saved us and covered some real sore spots.

ONe scenario worries me- that is the Yankees who really need to move some of their aging overpaid veterans to give themselves some flexibility. KW, by all accounts, was willing to accept RedSox refuse named Nomar; please don't fall for this one, KW. The Yanks did us okay in the Colon trade, but don't take their calls this time KW: wolf in sheep's clothing. The Yankees have a lot they want to dump (Giambi, Williams to name just 2), but nothing we really need.

Troupis
10-30-2004, 10:13 AM
How about plugging Placido Polanco in at shortstop. The guy is the opposite of Valentine especially in the strikeout department - the man struck out 39 times last year.

I don't know the Phillies' intentions with him, but he's not too expensive and having an infielder who doesn't strikeout would be a nice change, scratch that, having a guy on the Whitesox who doesn't strike out would be a nice change.

Renteria is probably out of the payroll but a Renteria, Polanco, Konerko & Whoever is hot at third infield isn't too bad in my book.

ma-gaga
10-30-2004, 11:54 AM
The 2004 White Sox were not a bad team, nor a good team, minor changes should make this team competitive.ok, I ignored Beltran, because there's no way the W.Sox acquire/resign TWO players for more than $12MM this year.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Terry21fg%20-%20Lineup%20-%2001.jpg

I guessed a number for Finley. I don't know if I'm high or low here. $65MM was roughly the payroll number for 2004. This isn't THAT bad of a roster. I don't think Finley is necessary, I think you'd get better production from Gload at first, and the OF of Lee, Rowand and Everett. And you'd save $4.5MM.

:)

Mickster
10-30-2004, 11:58 AM
ok, I ignored Beltran, because there's no way the W.Sox acquire/resign TWO players for more than $12MM this year.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Terry21fg%20-%20Lineup%20-%2001.jpg

I guessed a number for Finley. I don't know if I'm high or low here. $65MM was roughly the payroll number for 2004. This isn't THAT bad of a roster. I don't think Finley is necessary, I think you'd get better production from Gload at first, and the OF of Lee, Rowand and Everett. And you'd save $4.5MM.

:)
You haven't upgraded the 'pen at all. There is no way we could win in '05 w/o a substantial upgrade in the bupplen and maybe even a closer. I love Shingo, but I don't think he has what it takes to close next year. Adkins, Cotts and Diaz scare me....

kitekrazy
10-30-2004, 12:18 PM
How about we trade Reinsdorf for George Steinbrenner. We could keep Maggs, get Beltran, have trouble getting tickets. Jerry could make people relaize the Mets are the "other" team in NY.

Railsplitter
10-30-2004, 01:30 PM
The Sox need table-setters and pitching.

Ol' No. 2
10-30-2004, 01:33 PM
I don't think the Contreras trade was all that bad; the Everett trade was pitiful, though and exposes KW's weakness for over-the hill ballplayers.

KW makes a lot of good moves, but some not so good ones. This year is critical and will test his negoitiating skills. We need to stick to players $6 millish and below because we really need several of them (we have many weaknesses) and we need the flexibility. Our solid power saved us and covered some real sore spots.

ONe scenario worries me- that is the Yankees who really need to move some of their aging overpaid veterans to give themselves some flexibility. KW, by all accounts, was willing to accept RedSox refuse named Nomar; please don't fall for this one, KW. The Yanks did us okay in the Colon trade, but don't take their calls this time KW: wolf in sheep's clothing. The Yankees have a lot they want to dump (Giambi, Williams to name just 2), but nothing we really need.I doubt very much that there was ever an intent to have Nomar stopping with the White Sox. He was going to get traded to either the Angels or Dodgers for pitching. Kenny was just not tipping his hand, and was going to let them bid against each other. I thought it would have been a good deal for the Sox at the time.

johnny_mostil
10-30-2004, 02:14 PM
The Sox need table-setters and pitching.
Vizquel would qualify, marginally, as a table-setter.

Percival's getting the heave-ho in Anaheim; combine him with a good starting pitcher and the pitching suddenly would look a lot better.

I'm the first to point out the massive number of homers being a problem for the pitchers, but don't forget that the "average" pitcher will post an ERA of almost 5 in the U. S. Cellular Bandbox. The closest guy the White Sox have to "average" is Jon Garland.

MisterB
10-30-2004, 04:00 PM
How about we trade Reinsdorf for George Steinbrenner. We could keep Maggs, get Beltran, have trouble getting tickets. Jerry could make people relaize the Mets are the "other" team in NY.
Steinbrenner would undoubtedly invoke his 5-and-10 rights and veto that trade. :tongue: However much we may think 'Dorf is making off the Sox, I guarantee you Steinbrenner's making at least 4 times that off the Yanks.

bobj4400
10-30-2004, 04:18 PM
I haven't posted here in a couple months, so I'm sorry if what I'm about to write has been written a thousand times:

But when I hear this nonsense about us getting Vizquel and Johnson I can't help but yawn and say, "well Kenny's about to screw up again." It seems like one bad acquisition after another for Kenny. I'm still reeling for our masterful acquisition of Contreras and his big fact contract that not even the Yankees could stand. Now we're going to go out and get two guys who are over the hill. Please.

Could somebody please inform Kenny that, just because a player's name is a little more recognizeable than another player's doesn't make him a winning acquisition.

And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.
AMEN! Couldnt have said it better myself. I have been a KW supporter at best and indifferent to KW at worst. Talks of signing Vizquel and other washed up former stars is starting to tip me into the KW basher category...

cornball
10-30-2004, 04:43 PM
I haven't posted here in a couple months, so I'm sorry if what I'm about to write has been written a thousand times:

But when I hear this nonsense about us getting Vizquel and Johnson I can't help but yawn and say, "well Kenny's about to screw up again." It seems like one bad acquisition after another for Kenny. I'm still reeling for our masterful acquisition of Contreras and his big fact contract that not even the Yankees could stand. Now we're going to go out and get two guys who are over the hill. Please.

Could somebody please inform Kenny that, just because a player's name is a little more recognizeable than another player's doesn't make him a winning acquisition.

And the funny part is, we'll get a couple guys like this (probably sign them to awful multi-year deals) and then they'll hurt themselves one week into the season and the Kenny faithful will say, "How was Kenny to know they would get hurt."

It's all become so very boring.
The same could be said about the infatuation some have with Harris and Valdez. Youth does not mean production either. A balance would be nice.

Tragg
10-30-2004, 11:57 PM
I doubt very much that there was ever an intent to have Nomar stopping with the White Sox. He was going to get traded to either the Angels or Dodgers for pitching. Kenny was just not tipping his hand, and was going to let them bid against each other. I thought it would have been a good deal for the Sox at the time. If you are correct and we would have gotten something like a starter and Mota, then I agree with you.

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2004, 12:58 AM
If you are correct and we would have gotten something like a starter and Mota, then I agree with you.That's the way I read the situation at the time. And the Sox were also to get Williamson in the deal. Parlaying Maggs into two relievers and a starter would have been a pretty sweet deal. Of course, as it turned out, Williamson got hurt, and it wouldn't have been so nice, but that's hindsight.

Mohoney
10-31-2004, 04:56 AM
The closest guy the White Sox have to "average" is Jon Garland.
I think that Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, Jon Garland, Cliff Politte, Jose Contreras, and Jason Grilli all qualify as "average". In fact, I think they all qualify as "below average" or "sucky".

Sadly, however, our organization thinks of them as "bright spots" and "integral parts" to our pitching staff.

Flight #24
10-31-2004, 08:07 AM
That's the way I read the situation at the time. And the Sox were also to get Williamson in the deal. Parlaying Maggs into two relievers and a starter would have been a pretty sweet deal. Of course, as it turned out, Williamson got hurt, and it wouldn't have been so nice, but that's hindsight.When you look at the Twins, with a bullpen that shut teams down after the 6th, and the BoSox, who won with pitching, D, and a decent but not awesome O, there's a real argument to make that swapping Maggs for Mota, Williamson, Edwin Jackson, and that CF they sent to Cleveland for Milton Bradley would have beenan awesome deal.

Edit: I forgot, wasn't Odalis Perez in that rumored deal?

Flight #24
10-31-2004, 08:13 AM
You know, for all the KW bashing that goes on, apparently if he'd had his way, the Sox this year would have been structured with Garcia (trading Valentin), Buehrle, Loaiza, Odalis Perez, Garland/Shoney, a bullpen of Politte, Marte, Shingo, Shoney/Garland, Mota, and a lineup of Harris-ARow-Thomas-Lee-Konerko-Crede-Uribe-JuanGone/Reed/Borchard-Olivo.

That team looks surprisingly balanced and fundamentally sound. Just something to think about as we consider various moves that KW might try and make over the next few months.

Man Soo Lee
10-31-2004, 05:56 PM
the BoSox, who won with pitching, D, and a decent but not awesome O
I think leading the majors in runs, OBP, slugging, and OPS is a little better than decent.