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View Full Version : Steve Stone quits, is it starting to unravel?


JKryl
10-29-2004, 08:54 AM
Steve Stone quit the Cubs today (Chicago Sun-Times, 10/29/04, pg 164), while Chip ran for the wings a couple of weeks ago. Is it finally the beginning of the end for the cute little Cubbies? All the TV personalities jump ship, Dusty is losing his mind, and Sammy may soon be gone. Can the fans be far behind? Just asking.

Rocky Soprano
10-29-2004, 08:55 AM
The fans will be too busy chatting on their cell phones and drinking Old Style to even notice that Stone, Carrey, and Sosa are gone.

Baby Fisk
10-29-2004, 09:02 AM
Cub fans are still wondering when they get to play Boston in the playoffs.

Brian26
10-29-2004, 09:23 AM
Steve Stone quit the Cubs today (Chicago Sun-Times, 10/29/04, pg 164), while Chip ran for the wings a couple of weeks ago. Is it finally the beginning of the end for the cute little Cubbies? All the TV personalities jump ship, Dusty is losing his mind, and Sammy may soon be gone. Can the fans be far behind? Just asking.

Dude, it began unraveling a long time ago.

:bandance:

jabrch
10-29-2004, 09:24 AM
Not unraveling any time soon - not with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Maddux taking the bump. Not with a near 100mm payroll with only 17 of it being wasted (Sosa). They will contend for at least a few years, at a minimum. And as long as this team contends, they will fill up their dumpster of a park to the tune of 3mm+ fans.

Rocky Soprano
10-29-2004, 09:47 AM
Not unraveling any time soon - not with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Maddux taking the bump. Not with a near 100mm payroll with only 17 of it being wasted (Sosa). They will contend for at least a few years, at a minimum. And as long as this team contends, they will fill up their dumpster of a park to the tune of 3mm+ fans.
Oh really? So care to explain what happened last year? And the year before that? Oh and the year before that?

Uncle_Patrick
10-29-2004, 09:55 AM
As long as Wrigley stands and the beer is flowing, nothing will unravel for the "Hey, it's cool to like the Cubs" - type fans. For the Cub's die-hard baseball fans, Stone's resignation is just another reminder for them of how much 2004 sucked and another reason to be p.o.'d with the Cubs organization, although, believe me, there are some fans who are already trying to spin Stone's resignation into a postive thing.

JKryl
10-29-2004, 10:06 AM
As long as Wrigley stands and the beer is flowing, nothing will unravel for the "Hey, it's cool to like the Cubs" - type fans. For the Cub's die-hard baseball fans, Stone's resignation is just another reminder for them of how much 2004 sucked and another reason to be p.o.'d with the Cubs organization, although, believe me, there are some fans who are already trying to spin Stone's resignation into a postive thing.
Pat, everyone sobers up sometime, it's only a question of when. Back in the 60's, they were only pulling 300 fans in to some games. It's gonna happen sooner or later.

Uncle_Patrick
10-29-2004, 10:29 AM
Pat, everyone sobers up sometime, it's only a question of when. Back in the 60's, they were only pulling 300 fans in to some games. It's gonna happen sooner or later.
Maybe. However, the Cubs are owned by a media giant that will ultimately put a positive spin on this. They'll probably have a lot of Cub fans believing that Stone's departure was a good thing.

The only way that I see the Cubs' mystique unravelling is by the White Sox making themselves the desireable alternative. Unfortunately, this organization has a defeatist attitude. Hell, Reinsdorf has said that Chicago will always be a Cubs town. If the team's owner feels that way, how do you think that he rest of the organization feels?

If people don't see the White Sox as the way to go, what's going to stop them from rooting for the Cubs, as long as Hi-Tops or the Cubby Bear is open after the game? The Cubs have fielded crappy teams in the past 20 years and people still flock to the stadium like Jesus is going to appear.

SOXSINCE'70
10-29-2004, 10:58 AM
Dude, it began unraveling a long time ago.

:bandance:Agreed.But,as Rocky Soprano said,sCrUBS fans will
be too busy drinking urinated beer and chatting on
their cells to notice.:D: :D: :D: :bandance:

Rush20
10-29-2004, 11:11 AM
Maybe. However, the Cubs are owned by a media giant that will ultimately put a positive spin on this. They'll probably have a lot of Cub fans believing that Stone's departure was a good thing.

The only way that I see the Cubs' mystique unravelling is by the White Sox making themselves the desireable alternative. Unfortunately, this organization has a defeatist attitude. Hell, Reinsdorf has said that Chicago will always be a Cubs town. If the team's owner feels that way, how do you think that he rest of the organization feels?

If people don't see the White Sox as the way to go, what's going to stop them from rooting for the Cubs, as long as Hi-Tops or the Cubby Bear is open after the game? The Cubs have fielded crappy teams in the past 20 years and people still flock to the stadium like Jesus is going to appear.

Great point! I agree that if the SOX own chairman concedes the town to the Cubs, we will always be second fiddle.

I hate the fact that Chicago is now known as a Cubs town. It has NOT always been that way and has only been considered true because the same media company that owns the team prints the papers!

The SOX were the first baseball team to draw 2 million fans "way back" "as far" as 1983. I remember the late 70's broadcasts of the Cubs getting whipped by the Pirates in August/September in front of 12,000 fans. They used to close off the upper deck!!!! funny how this all changed beginning in 1984.....

JR has to stop marketing for 20,000 fans (his target/his words) per game and get serious about winning (and I do mean "WINNING") the hearts of Chicago.

I truly believe that the Chicago area is close to evenly split between Cubs and SOX fans, however "Wrigley", the "Shrine" and all of "Cubbyland" wins the battle for the casual fan and visiting fan's dollar.

Get smart JR! Fire Williams, hire Stone as GM and make a statement that you're not willing to concede the city to the Cubs! At the very least, it would be great PR!

Brian26
10-29-2004, 12:06 PM
Not unraveling any time soon - not with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Maddux taking the bump

Five words for you:

Hoyt-Dotson-Bannister-Burns-Seaver.

**** happens.

:bandance:

Brian26
10-29-2004, 12:08 PM
The Cubs have fielded crappy teams in the past 20 years and people still flock to the stadium like Jesus is going to appear.

They can draw 4 million a year for all I care. It will always be a beer garden. I just don't want them making it to the World Series before us.

SOXSINCE'70
10-29-2004, 12:09 PM
Five words for you:

Hoyt-Dotson-Bannister-Burns-Seaver.

**** happens.

:bandance:
PLEASE!! NOT THE SUMMER OF '84!!!!
( screams of pain):D: :D:

SOXSINCE'70
10-29-2004, 12:13 PM
people still flock to the stadium like Jesus is going to appear.Well,Johhny Damon and the BloSawx will be there next year
for 3.At least he looks like Jesus with the long hair!!:D: :D: :D:

GiveMeSox
10-29-2004, 01:08 PM
Great point! I agree that if the SOX own chairman concedes the town to the Cubs, we will always be second fiddle.

I hate the fact that Chicago is now known as a Cubs town. It has NOT always been that way and has only been considered true because the same media company that owns the team prints the papers!

The SOX were the first baseball team to draw 2 million fans "way back" "as far" as 1983. I remember the late 70's broadcasts of the Cubs getting whipped by the Pirates in August/September in front of 12,000 fans. They used to close off the upper deck!!!! funny how this all changed beginning in 1984.....

JR has to stop marketing for 20,000 fans (his target/his words) per game and get serious about winning (and I do mean "WINNING") the hearts of Chicago.

I truly believe that the Chicago area is close to evenly split between Cubs and SOX fans, however "Wrigley", the "Shrine" and all of "Cubbyland" wins the battle for the casual fan and visiting fan's dollar.

Get smart JR! Fire Williams, hire Stone as GM and make a statement that you're not willing to concede the city to the Cubs! At the very least, it would be great PR!
I remember growing up in the early 90's the sox were definatly the popular team. And i dont just think that becuase i grew up in the south suburbs. I remember they were chicago's team from 1990 to 1994. They were the hot commodity. They hot the new hot hitting frank thomas and great peersonalities like Fisk, Bo Jackson, black jack, the rookie who threw a no no wilson alverez and such. They were big, not just here. I remember all my friends who were cubs fans we just laughed out, no one like the cubs, no one went to there games. They were a joke. Now it couldn't be differen't. The cubs are the hot commodity and everyone cant get enough of them. The difference is we did it with our team and on field performace and players, they did it by turning a throwback classic stadium from 1918 into a gigantic frat party and mardi gras central of chicago. THat is why i will never respect there fan base or organazation.

pinwheels3530
10-29-2004, 03:46 PM
Maybe. However, the Cubs are owned by a media giant that will ultimately put a positive spin on this. They'll probably have a lot of Cub fans believing that Stone's departure was a good thing.

The only way that I see the Cubs' mystique unravelling is by the White Sox making themselves the desireable alternative. Unfortunately, this organization has a defeatist attitude. Hell, Reinsdorf has said that Chicago will always be a Cubs town. If the team's owner feels that way, how do you think that he rest of the organization feels?

If people don't see the White Sox as the way to go, what's going to stop them from rooting for the Cubs, as long as Hi-Tops or the Cubby Bear is open after the game? The Cubs have fielded crappy teams in the past 20 years and people still flock to the stadium like Jesus is going to appear.

New ownership anyone.......:(:

pinwheels3530
10-29-2004, 03:51 PM
I remember growing up in the early 90's the sox were definatly the popular team. And i dont just think that becuase i grew up in the south suburbs. I remember they were chicago's team from 1990 to 1994. They were the hot commodity. They hot the new hot hitting frank thomas and great peersonalities like Fisk, Bo Jackson, black jack, the rookie who threw a no no wilson alverez and such. They were big, not just here. I remember all my friends who were cubs fans we just laughed out, no one like the cubs, no one went to there games. They were a joke. Now it couldn't be differen't. The cubs are the hot commodity and everyone cant get enough of them. The difference is we did it with our team and on field performace and players, they did it by turning a throwback classic stadium from 1918 into a gigantic frat party and mardi gras central of chicago. THat is why i will never respect there fan base or organazation.

Your right the SOX were definetly Chicago's team in the early 90's until......the strike!!!!:angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner:

DumpJerry
10-29-2004, 04:33 PM
The fans will be too busy chatting on their cell phones and drinking Old Style to even notice that Stone, Carrey, and Sosa are gone.Actually, they are celebrating their World Series victory.

Parrothead
10-29-2004, 07:02 PM
Not unraveling any time soon - not with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Maddux taking the bump. Not with a near 100mm payroll with only 17 of it being wasted (Sosa). They will contend for at least a few years, at a minimum. And as long as this team contends, they will fill up their dumpster of a park to the tune of 3mm+ fans.
Wood has never won over 14 games and is constantly hurt, Prior who knows about his health, Maddux is just old (sooner or later he must fall). I will give you Zambrano.

Sure they have the money and spend it but ask the Yankees how spending the most works.

Lip Man 1
10-29-2004, 07:06 PM
Parrot:

The Yanks have now been to the post season ten straight years. They have won what, four, five? World Series in that time.

Call me crazy but it seems to have worked out fine for them, or wouldn't you take that in a ten year span for the Sox? :?:

Lip

Parrothead
10-29-2004, 07:29 PM
Parrot:

The Yanks have now been to the post season ten straight years. They have won what, four, five? World Series in that time.

Call me crazy but it seems to have worked out fine for them, or wouldn't you take that in a ten year span for the Sox? :?:

Lip
I would take that string of playoffs. Spending is fine but you have to get the right players look Boston had the nads to get rid of Nomar and it worked. Seattle got rid of Johnson, Griffey and Arod and became better. Buying big names does not always work. One must spend wisely.

Lip Man 1
10-29-2004, 07:43 PM
Parrot:

My point was that you have to spend period. the list of playoff teams and series winners who had small/ medium payrolls is very, very small. The list of playoff teams and series winners in the top say quarter of baseball in spending is very, very large.

Lip

Tragg
10-30-2004, 12:14 AM
Steve Stone quit the Cubs today (Chicago Sun-Times, 10/29/04, pg 164), while Chip ran for the wings a couple of weeks ago. Is it finally the beginning of the end for the cute little Cubbies? All the TV personalities jump ship, Dusty is losing his mind, and Sammy may soon be gone. Can the fans be far behind? Just asking.
Stone aside, dumping Alou and Samme are good moves.

Parrothead
10-30-2004, 01:06 AM
Parrot:

My point was that you have to spend period. the list of playoff teams and series winners who had small/ medium payrolls is very, very small. The list of playoff teams and series winners in the top say quarter of baseball in spending is very, very large.

Lip
Two words for MLB......Salary cap.

jabrch
10-30-2004, 01:28 AM
Oh really? So care to explain what happened last year? And the year before that? Oh and the year before that?
Sure - they sold 3mm tickets. They sold plenty of blue crap and yellow beer. They made money hand over fist. And in the process they had a team 5 outs away and a team that finished 3 games out. They upped their payroll to almost 100mm. They have young talent on the major league roster and they have a deep (pitching wise) farm system. So tell me - how are they falling apart?

I guarantee you they make moves in the offseason and bring in at least one good FA. either a SS, a LF or Beltran.

I'd take their past two seasons over ours any day of the week. And before it even arrives, I'd take their next year over our next year also.

jabrch
10-30-2004, 01:36 AM
Wood has never won over 14 games and is constantly hurt, Prior who knows about his health, Maddux is just old (sooner or later he must fall). I will give you Zambrano.

Sure they have the money and spend it but ask the Yankees how spending the most works.
Seems to work fairly well. Boston had the second highest payroll in baseball - and won the Series. NYY has had the highest for a while - and has been to the playoffs how many years straight? (11) Made how many ALCS? (6) Won how many WS? (4) Meanwhile, of the bottom 1/4 of the teams in payroll, how many have made playoff appearances during that 11 year stretch? (not many)

There is a direct correlation between spending and winning both championships and playoff series. Is it 100%? Of course not. That's the problem our team has. Our revenues are just not large enough to enable management to be fiscally responsible and spend money like the top 1/4 of the teams in the game who have totally different revenue models. Some people will just blame our owners for not pulling money out of their own pocket, but they clearly don't understand business, the nature of this ownership group, their working arrangement, or how the real world works.

jabrch
10-30-2004, 01:37 AM
Two words for MLB......Salary cap.
Two words from the MLBPA to you and the owners... FKUC FOF

munchman33
10-30-2004, 02:09 AM
Two words from the MLBPA to you and the owners... FKUC FOF
Well Jabrch, MLB is the only major U.S. sport without a salary cap. Incidently, it's also the only major U.S. sport that has constant competitive imbalance, with teams in the largest markets consistantly making the playoffs at a much higher rate. I wonder why that is?

Mohoney
10-30-2004, 02:13 AM
Is it finally the beginning of the end for the cute little Cubbies?
If this is the "beginning of the end", then when was the "beginning of the beginning"? Last I checked, this franchise was STILL a national joke.

As they are constructed right now, they're a team that will not win 90 games. Sometimes, 88 wins is enough to be a contender in an obscenely weak league, and sometimes real juggernaughts step up and win 100+, making 89 wins look less like championship caliber baseball and more like wishful thinking.

mikef1331
10-30-2004, 05:18 AM
Seems to work fairly well. Boston had the second highest payroll in baseball - and won the Series. NYY has had the highest for a while - and has been to the playoffs how many years straight? (11) Made how many ALCS? (6) Won how many WS? (4) Meanwhile, of the bottom 1/4 of the teams in payroll, how many have made playoff appearances during that 11 year stretch? (not many)

There is a direct correlation between spending and winning both championships and playoff series. Is it 100%? Of course not. That's the problem our team has. Our revenues are just not large enough to enable management to be fiscally responsible and spend money like the top 1/4 of the teams in the game who have totally different revenue models. Some people will just blame our owners for not pulling money out of their own pocket, but they clearly don't understand business, the nature of this ownership group, their working arrangement, or how the real world works.
Just curious... but, where does Atlanta rank in terms of payroll? They've managed to get into the playoffs 13 years in a row with all of those playoff appearances being division titles. I'd just like to know, what kind of payroll the Braves are working with to accomplish that.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2004, 12:13 PM
The NHL doesn't have a salary cap and probably isn't going to get one.

The Braves always ranked until the past season or two as among the top five or six payrolls in baseball. Turner when he owned them never cared about how much he had to pay to try to win. Time Warner/AOL has ordered budget cuts now that they own it, but I'd still guess the payroll is still in the area of 85-90 million.

Lip

Railsplitter
10-30-2004, 12:49 PM
Just for fun, here's how the Yankees have fared under various presidents.

Presidents wins/total Series

T. Roosevelt 0/0
Taft 0/0
Wilson 0/0
Harding 0/2
Coolidge 3/3
Hoover 1/1
F.D. Roosevelt 6/7
Truman 5/5
Eisenhower 3/6
Kennedy 2/3
Johnson 0/1
Nixon 0/0
Ford 0/1
Carter 2/2
Reagan 0/1
G.H.W.Bush 0/0
Clinton 4/4
G.W. Bush 0/3

Railsplitter
10-30-2004, 12:51 PM
Just for fun, here's how the Yankees have fared under various presidents.

Presidents wins/total Series

Sorry, should have checked before posting. Can you put that on it's own?

JKryl
10-30-2004, 11:00 PM
I would take that string of playoffs. Spending is fine but you have to get the right players look Boston had the nads to get rid of Nomar and it worked. Seattle got rid of Johnson, Griffey and Arod and became better. Buying big names does not always work. One must spend wisely.
Good point, maybe we should start with Big Frank, since he seems to be the biggest boob we have at this time.

DSpivack
10-31-2004, 12:05 AM
Good point, maybe we should start with Big Frank, since he seems to be the biggest boob we have at this time.
He doesn't suck up enormous amounts of payroll. Getting rid of him would be a BIG mistake. Unlike Shamme, he is a positive for the team--- he isn't just a HR hitter who strikes out a lot.... he had by far the best OBP/OPS on the team this past year. And when it came to moving down the order, he had absolutely no problem with it. Some criticize the Big Hurt as a whiny sports star, I just say he isn't naturally a leader, he's a soft spoken guy who is uncomfortable in the spotlight and seems antisocial.

Parrothead
10-31-2004, 09:09 PM
Well Jabrch, MLB is the only major U.S. sport without a salary cap. Incidently, it's also the only major U.S. sport that has constant competitive imbalance, with teams in the largest markets consistantly making the playoffs at a much higher rate. I wonder why that is? Agreed ! So back at ya Jabrch.....**** off !