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Frank the Tank
10-27-2004, 10:23 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:

RF: Aaron Rowand
2B: Todd Walker
CF: Carlos Beltran
1B: Paul Konerko
DH: Everett/Thomas
LF: Carlos Lee
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Crede
C: Burke/Davis

SP: Mark Buehrle
SP: Freddy Garcia
SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Jon Garland

I think that this line-up would be do-able if payroll were increased a level. I see no reason to over-pay for a shortstop when Uribe would suffice. With the money saved by not re-signing Maggs and usuing Uribe at short, it should free up enough to sign Beltran. Other than Beltran, I see no reason why JR couldn't allocate enough money to sign Pavano, Walker, and some bullpen help.

RKMeibalane
10-27-2004, 10:31 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:

RF: Aaron Rowand
2B: Todd Walker
CF: Carlos Beltran
1B: Paul Konerko
DH: Everett/Thomas
LF: Carlos Lee
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Crede
C: Burke/Davis

SP: Mark Buehrle
SP: Freddy Garcia
SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Jon Garland

I think that this line-up would be do-able if payroll were increased a level. I see no reason to over-pay for a shortstop when Uribe would suffice. With the money saved by not re-signing Maggs and usuing Uribe at short, it should free up enough to sign Beltran. Other than Beltran, I see no reason why JR couldn't allocate enough money to sign Pavano, Walker, and some bullpen help.
Frank Thomas is not a platoon player.

Flight #24
10-27-2004, 10:35 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:

RF: Aaron Rowand
2B: Todd Walker
CF: Carlos Beltran
1B: Paul Konerko
DH: Everett/Thomas
LF: Carlos Lee
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Crede
C: Burke/Davis

SP: Mark Buehrle
SP: Freddy Garcia
SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Jon Garland

I think that this line-up would be do-able if payroll were increased a level. I see no reason to over-pay for a shortstop when Uribe would suffice. With the money saved by not re-signing Maggs and usuing Uribe at short, it should free up enough to sign Beltran. Other than Beltran, I see no reason why JR couldn't allocate enough money to sign Pavano, Walker, and some bullpen help.
No way you get Beltran & Pavano AND keep Paulie & CLee. That's a 90+mil payroll right there. 80s is possible, so pick 1 who'll be gone. While I love the guy, my choice is Paulie, but it might have to be Lee since IMO he's more "moveable".

Plus that lets you stop the ridiculous idea of platooning the greatest White Sox hitter ever, and the 2d best hitter on this team (to Beltran) in Frank. Paulie leaves, and 1B gets shared between Gload, Everett, and Frank (interleague, and selected other games to keep him in some shape for NL parks).

jabrch
10-27-2004, 10:37 PM
Frank Thomas is not a platoon player.
Nor is he going to be ready by opening day - I think that was his point. But since I haven't said this in a long time, poor poor Frank - everyone always picks on him. Glad to see there are a few standbys to defend him - even when he isn't being attacked.

RKMeibalane
10-27-2004, 10:49 PM
Nor is he going to be ready by opening day - I think that was his point. But since I haven't said this in a long time, poor poor Frank - everyone always picks on him. Glad to see there are a few standbys to defend him - even when he isn't being attacked.
Well, you know me... :D:

jabrch
10-27-2004, 10:51 PM
Well, you know me... :D:
:smile: He isn't gonna be ready opening day right? That was probably what he meant by Everett/Frank. I highly doubt anyone would suggest Frank be a platoon DH.

RKMeibalane
10-27-2004, 10:53 PM
:smile: He isn't gonna be ready opening day right? That was probably what he meant by Everett/Frank. I highly doubt anyone would suggest Frank be a platoon DH.
Frank is due back sometime in March or April. There is some question about his availibility for Opening Day.

I do remember someone suggesting that Frank become a platoon player. Of course, this person also thought that the Sox had a chance to sign Alex Rodriguez during the 2000-2001 off-season.

Frank the Tank
10-27-2004, 11:01 PM
Assuming Frank will be healthy for the whole season is a big assumption. I like having Everett as a back-up plan. Is there any credible link showing how much the sox already have committed to 2005?

SoxFan76
10-27-2004, 11:18 PM
Todd Walker? Ouch, I thought the Sox are looking more towards speed/defense. He offers neither if I remember correctly.

RKMeibalane
10-27-2004, 11:20 PM
Todd Walker? Ouch, I thought the Sox are looking more towards speed/defense. He offers neither if I remember correctly.
He's a grinder, though.

Frank the Tank
10-28-2004, 08:20 AM
Todd Walker? Ouch, I thought the Sox are looking more towards speed/defense. He offers neither if I remember correctly.
Todd Walker will be the steal of this year's FA market.

Brian26
10-28-2004, 12:05 PM
Todd Walker will be the steal of this year's FA market.

I'd take Todd Walker in a second to play on this team next year.

Mickster
10-28-2004, 01:40 PM
I'd take Todd Walker in a second to play on this team next year.
The cubs will probably hold on to Walker and let Grudzhgjowdfhguir go. Walker did sign with the Cubs for less $$ just to play for them....

nitetrain8601
10-28-2004, 01:44 PM
Where the hell do we get the money to spend for that. Pavano + Beltran and we keep PK and CLee??? I have a feeling the Sox will increase payroll, not up to 90 mil though. I think if you get Beltran, the best pitcher you can get is a Clement or possibly, possibly(and this is stratching it) Derek Lowe because his playoff performances raised his price.

bafiarocks03
10-28-2004, 03:18 PM
Excuse me...Why isn't the WIllie Harris' name at 2nd base! That should be Willie! :angry:

Mickster
10-28-2004, 03:24 PM
Excuse me...Why isn't the WIllie Harris' name at 2nd base! That should be Willie! :angry:
Ummmmmm... 'cus he sucks. :wink:

batmanZoSo
10-28-2004, 03:38 PM
Frank Thomas is not a platoon player.

That's a bold statement. With what facts do you plan to back that up? :cool:

shagar69
10-28-2004, 03:46 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:

RF: Aaron Rowand
2B: Todd Walker
CF: Carlos Beltran
1B: Paul Konerko
DH: Everett/Thomas
LF: Carlos Lee
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Crede
C: Burke/Davis

SP: Mark Buehrle
SP: Freddy Garcia
SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Jon Garland

I think that this line-up would be do-able if payroll were increased a level. I see no reason to over-pay for a shortstop when Uribe would suffice. With the money saved by not re-signing Maggs and usuing Uribe at short, it should free up enough to sign Beltran. Other than Beltran, I see no reason why JR couldn't allocate enough money to sign Pavano, Walker, and some bullpen help.
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: you gotta be joking dude!!! we'll be lucky if we get pavano, let alone beltran and walker without giving up anybody else!

shagar69
10-28-2004, 03:49 PM
heres what the lineup will ACTUALLY look like:

vizquel
rowand
lee
konerko
thomas
everett
crede
davis/burke
uribe/harris

buehrle
garcia
contreras
garland
milton/ortiz/lowe/some other ****ty pitcher

oneil78
10-28-2004, 04:30 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:

RF: Aaron Rowand
2B: Todd Walker
CF: Carlos Beltran
1B: Paul Konerko
DH: Everett/Thomas
LF: Carlos Lee
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Crede
C: Burke/Davis

SP: Mark Buehrle
SP: Freddy Garcia
SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Jon Garland
Why stop there man? How about this:
c: I-Rod
1b: Thome
2b: Urbie
3b: Beltre
ss: Jeter
lf: Bonds
cf: Beltran
rf: Vlad
DH: Frank

Pitchers:
Garcia
Pavano
Santana
Buehrle
Randy Johnson

oneil78
10-28-2004, 04:31 PM
heres what the lineup will ACTUALLY look like:

vizquel
rowand
lee
konerko
thomas
everett
crede
davis/burke
uribe/harris

buehrle
garcia
contreras
garland
milton/ortiz/lowe/some other ****ty pitcher
Now here is someone who actually follows the White Sox.

hitlesswonder
10-28-2004, 04:40 PM
heres what the lineup will ACTUALLY look like:

vizquel
rowand
lee
konerko
thomas
everett
crede
davis/burke
uribe/harris

buehrle
garcia
contreras
garland
milton/ortiz/lowe/some other ****ty pitcher
I think that's a great guess, although Vizquel hates to bat leadoff so it would probably be someone else (maybe Harris...I guess).

mactheknife
10-28-2004, 04:41 PM
he did say ideal lineup, i doubt any of us would argue that that would be the ideal setup after this postseason.

Brian26
10-28-2004, 04:47 PM
I think that's a great guess, although Vizquel hates to bat leadoff so it would probably be someone else (maybe Harris...I guess).

Ugh. :whiner:

fuzzy_patters
10-28-2004, 04:52 PM
Why do some people not like Willie Harris? Last year he had an OBP of .343. The park adjusted league average was .348. His range factor at second base was 4.20 while the league average was 4.35. In other words, Willie Harris is basically an average baseball player. Considering that the .348 league average OBP of .348 includes the corner players, he is probably an above average middle infielder in terms of getting on base. Obviously, Willie is not a great player, but I cannot understand why anyone would put Joe Crede in a lineup and leave Willie out.

RKMeibalane
10-28-2004, 05:42 PM
That's a bold statement. With what facts do you plan to back that up? :cool:
Uhh... he bats right-handed.

Foulke29
10-28-2004, 05:43 PM
Nor is he going to be ready by opening day - I think that was his point. But since I haven't said this in a long time, poor poor Frank - everyone always picks on him. Glad to see there are a few standbys to defend him - even when he isn't being attacked.

Amen brother - God Bless Big Frank!

RKMeibalane
10-28-2004, 07:06 PM
Amen brother - God Bless Big Frank!
I think jabrch was being sarcastic and forgot to use teal. He has said several times on this board that the hard-core Frank Thomas fans are paranoid, because we believe that everyone is out to get Frank. He also believes that there is no such thing as a "Frank-hater," even though we have more than three year's worth of emperical data from this site that proves otherwise.

Frank the Tank
10-28-2004, 10:11 PM
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: you gotta be joking dude!!! we'll be lucky if we get pavano, let alone beltran and walker without giving up anybody else!
I did say it is my ideal line-up, but I still think that if management kicks payroll up a level it is feasible. If we don't sign a big time FA at SS (vizquel), we can certainly afford Beltran with the money freed up on not re-signing Maggs. Todd Walker was a platoon player last year with the cubs, I highly doubt many teams will throw big money at him. I didn't realize that Pavano was expected to receive Curt Schilling money. If so, I am perfectly content with "settling" for Milton.

JR is not my favorite owner either, but I don't think he is anywhere near as shady as some people on this site make him out to be. I really think that sox management is trying to take this franchise in a positive direcetion. We have the stadium renovations (I realize that JR is paying nothing for them, but he could easily have pocketed the naming rights money) and the sox should have some added revenue with the new scout seating and comcast sports deal.

OEO Magglio
10-28-2004, 10:22 PM
I think that's a great guess, although Vizquel hates to bat leadoff so it would probably be someone else (maybe Harris...I guess).
Just switch arow and vizquel in the lineup, I'd rather have omar batting 2nd anyways because of his bunting ability.

ma-gaga
10-28-2004, 10:44 PM
Now is about as good a time as any to toss out some ideal line-ups for 2005. I would like to see:
...
Other than Beltran, I see no reason why JR couldn't allocate enough money to sign Pavano, Walker, and some bullpen help.Ok, I'll play with this for every lineup I see. This is a quick and dirty calc on next years payroll and the W.Sox roster. They spent roughly $65MM this year. If you see any drastic errors, please let me know:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Frank%20the%20Tank%20-%20Lineup%20-%2001.jpg

Flight #24
10-28-2004, 10:48 PM
Ok, I'll play with this for every lineup I see. This is a quick and dirty calc on next years payroll and the W.Sox roster. They spent roughly $65MM this year. If you see any drastic errors, please let me know:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Frank%20the%20Tank%20-%20Lineup%20-%2001.jpg
I assume you've factored the Contreras cash all against 04 salary and are backloading the FA deals to Pavano & Beltran? Otherwise Jose's too high and the FAs too low.

That said, I can see a salary in the 80-85 range. IMO they'll get Vizquel instead of Walker at about twice that price, and that will come out of one of the other 2 FAs.

Mickster
10-28-2004, 10:50 PM
Ok, I'll play with this for every lineup I see. This is a quick and dirty calc on next years payroll and the W.Sox roster. They spent roughly $65MM this year. If you see any drastic errors, please let me know:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Frank%20the%20Tank%20-%20Lineup%20-%2001.jpg
We're at $64M w/o the 3 hi-lighted players and realistically have tons of holes. Plus, I think that Uribe will get more than $500K this year and certainly hope Garland gets less than $3M, although I doubt it.

Man Soo Lee
10-29-2004, 01:22 AM
If you see any drastic errors, please let me know
I think paying Ben Davis $1.75 Million would qualify as a drastic error.

ma-gaga
10-30-2004, 10:36 AM
I think paying Ben Davis $1.75 Million would qualify as a drastic error.That's pretty damn funny.

I agree that his production isn't worth the money, but this is his 6th year in the league, he's going to be 28, and he made $1.40MM last year. If the W.Sox want to keep him, they will have to pay him. They can release him, or offer him arbitration, and then try to work out a "fair" deal, but I don't think a $1.75MM contract is a bad idea at this point. I mean, you'd maybe save $750k by releasing and attempting to resign him.

That's a lot of money to you and me, but not that much if KW is trying to become an elite franchise. To avoid the hassles and to set a proper tone, he should quietly do this...

:KW
"That's Bob Davis right?