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View Full Version : I don't want KW gone.


Jerome
10-27-2004, 05:29 PM
Not because I like him. In fact, I agree with a lot of the KW bashers on many topics. The fact is that KW is a mediocore/average GM. The results over four years have proven that.

The reason I don't want him gone is because the Sox have remained competitive, and could easily improve/strike lighting in a bottle. If KW is fired (which will be within a year or two if no playoff appearences), Reinsdorf WILL hire someone in house who we have never heard of on the cheap to save money. He did it with Manuel, KW, and of course Ozzie.

KW bashers, if he is fired do you think JR will replace him with a good GM with an outstanding track record? No. We will get the same crap we've been used to.

Wealz
10-27-2004, 05:36 PM
KW bashers, if he is fired do you think JR will replace him with a good GM with an outstanding track record? No. We will get the same crap we've been used to.
You present a very strong argument for the statis quo.

shagar69
10-27-2004, 06:09 PM
yeah, theybe been competitive ever since he's been here. but theyve also been the worst thing that a pro. sports team could be year in and year out: mediocre. Mediocrity IMO is worse than having 100+ losses, because at least with the latter young kids get to play and develop and you also get a top draft pick, which albeit is not as important in the MLB as in the NBA or NFL, but is still pretty big. so yeah, theyve been competitive, but obviously another GM COULD do better IMO. that being said, KW deserves 1 or 2 more years

KWilliams:A'sFan
10-27-2004, 06:39 PM
Even though I may not like the man, I will agree with you. Kenny Williams should stay, at least one more year. I don't think his firing would solve much of anything with the White Sox.

I think the biggest problem (and this does fall on Kenny's shoulders) is this organization's lack of a philosophy. All the successful teams have a philosophy, and "winning the world series" doesn't count as a team philosophy. That is a goal, and an unoriginal one at that since every other MLB team shares the same goal, the Expos being the possible exception.

The Twins have a philosophy; they build through drafts.
The A's have a philosophy; they sign value guys with high on base and slugging percentages.
The Yankees have a philosophy; spend whatever it takes.
The Red Sox have a philosophy; a middle-ground between the A's and the Yankees.
Even the Cubs have a philosophy; sign whiny, overhyped veterans with name recognition so the bleachers bums continue to buy beer and the tourists continue to come to the ball park.

The Sox, seemingly, don't have a philosophy. It used to be a murderer's row of sluggers that would outmash the other team, thus negating our mediocre pitching. That didn't work, and now there is no team philosophy, and to me that's very distressing. I hear talk about "grinders," and that sounds encouraging, though extremely obtuse. (Exactly which stat directly refers to "grinding?")

I hope KW comes up with a solid plan and decides to stick with that plan for more than half a season, that is his job after all. If he doesn't, then you fire the man. Granted he should have had one when he was first given the job, but maybe after this season he's finally realized the Schueler philosophy no longer works.

Flight #24
10-27-2004, 06:40 PM
yeah, theybe been competitive ever since he's been here. but theyve also been the worst thing that a pro. sports team could be year in and year out: mediocre. Mediocrity IMO is worse than having 100+ losses, because at least with the latter young kids get to play and develop and you also get a top draft pick, which albeit is not as important in the MLB as in the NBA or NFL, but is still pretty big. so yeah, theyve been competitive, but obviously another GM COULD do better IMO. that being said, KW deserves 1 or 2 more yearsThe question is: can KW develop the organization to where we improve on mediocrity because we can start adding in high quality talent either via targeted smart signings (so far, pretty decent record), trades (net bad on "big ones", plus on small ones), developing young players (TBD in next 1-2 years), and bigname FA signings (TBD, we'll see if we can do that this year).

I like what he's done in the farm system and in the overall team he put together for 2004. We'll see if he can do that for '05 as well as what comes of the supposed talent in the low-mid levels. As you said, we'll be able to tell within 1-2 years.

Lip Man 1
10-27-2004, 06:42 PM
Flight:

I think gosox41 would disagree with your contention about Williams developing the current farm system.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
10-27-2004, 06:46 PM
Re: The current state of the Sox farm system:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20041014&content_id=894494&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp

fquaye149
10-27-2004, 06:54 PM
.
that is the most ridiculous member name i've ever seen.


besides foulke what? i'm honestly curious.

he's a far cry from the pirates gm...and by far cry i mean nowhere near.

Dub25
10-27-2004, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=KWilliams:A'sFan]
I think the biggest problem (and this does fall on Kenny's shoulders) is this organization's lack of a philosophy.

I think the biggest problem (and this does fall on Jerry's shoulders) is this organization's lack of spending.

KWilliams:A'sFan
10-27-2004, 07:12 PM
that is the most ridiculous member name i've ever seen.


besides foulke what? i'm honestly curious.

he's a far cry from the pirates gm...and by far cry i mean nowhere near.
Ray Durham for Jon Adkins. We could have and should have kept Ray and gotten the two draft picks that we would have gotten when he signed with another team as a free agent. Instead we traded him for Adkins straight up. That trade, along with the White Flag Trade, '94 strike, Reinsdorf ownership, etc. really made me question my desire to continue being a Sox fan. But, as I've grown up rooting for the Sox, I wasn't going to let Kenny Williams or Jerry Reinsdorf stop me.

The Foulke trade was just plain stupid. Was he ever as bad as Jerry Manuel would have you believe?

santo=dorf
10-27-2004, 07:45 PM
Ray Durham for Jon Adkins. We could have and should have kept Ray and gotten the two draft picks that we would have gotten when he signed with another team as a free agent. Instead we traded him for Adkins straight up.
IIRC, the new CBA being talked about at the time (remember the potential strike in 2002?) wasn't going to allow compensation picks for lost FA. That is why they traded for anybody. Jon Adkins was a good contributor for the Sox this year before Ozzie started mishandling him in August.

Jerome
10-27-2004, 07:47 PM
Re: The current state of the Sox farm system:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20041014&content_id=894494&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp


Two things from that article:
1. 2 of the top three are now playing for Seattle (so maybe this was a bad list to use as an example to defend KW)
2. I WILL buy a Ray Liotta Jersey when he comes up.


Otherwise, I am very exited about the prospects of BMac (don't know how to spell) and Anderson.

Lip Man 1
10-27-2004, 08:40 PM
Santo:

With respect, the only thing Jon Adkins did well this year was allow fans in the stands the chance to catch a home run ball.

With a real 'contender' he's not even in the big leagues.

Lip

fquaye149
10-27-2004, 09:35 PM
with all due respect lip his era was under 3.50 for a great deal of the season

munchman33
10-27-2004, 09:49 PM
We could have and should have kept Ray and gotten the two draft picks that we would have gotten when he signed with another team as a free agent. That suggests the Sox offer Ray arbitration, which would not have happened. Say they did, what happens if Ray accepts arbitration. He is so not worth the money. And with that $7 million on the payroll, who does Kenny have to get rid of.

Flight #24
10-27-2004, 10:02 PM
IIRC, the new CBA being talked about at the time (remember the potential strike in 2002?) wasn't going to allow compensation picks for lost FA. That is why they traded for anybody. Jon Adkins was a good contributor for the Sox this year before Ozzie started mishandling him in August.
Not only is that true, IIRC it was agreed upon by both sides, and then somehow in the final details, it got eliminated. So it's not like it was rumored and KW acted on it, it was agreed upon.

Daver
10-27-2004, 10:20 PM
Not only is that true, IIRC it was agreed upon by both sides, and then somehow in the final details, it got eliminated. So it's not like it was rumored and KW acted on it, it was agreed upon.
It was agreed upon, and put in writing, the difference of opinion on the wording of the international draft portion brought both sides back to battling, and it was agreed to continue under the terms of the previous CBA till the differences could be worked out. I doubt anything will be done with it till the next CBA is discussed, both sides know that they disagree completely on the issue.

Lip Man 1
10-27-2004, 10:26 PM
Fquay:

I guess you and I have a difference of opinion on good.

He had an ERA of about 4.5, allowed more hits then innings pitched and allowed 13 home runs in what 50 innings? 60 innings? Not exactly what you want in a relief pitcher eh?

But on the plus side he does work cheap!

Lip

Wealz
10-27-2004, 10:53 PM
Fquay:

I guess you and I have a difference of opinion on good.

He had an ERA of about 4.5, allowed more hits then innings pitched and allowed 13 home runs in what 50 innings? 60 innings? Not exactly what you want in a relief pitcher eh?

But on the plus side he does work cheap!

Lip
Those are Colon-esque numbers Lip. You're not being consistent in your arguments.

fquaye149
10-27-2004, 10:55 PM
Fquay:

I guess you and I have a difference of opinion on good.

He had an ERA of about 4.5, allowed more hits then innings pitched and allowed 13 home runs in what 50 innings? 60 innings? Not exactly what you want in a relief pitcher eh?

But on the plus side he does work cheap!

Lip]

nah, you're right that overall he had a poor season.

but for a great deal of it he was giving us some good solid innings. then his season went downhill.

soxwon
10-27-2004, 10:56 PM
KW isnt going to get fired, give it up.

he will be GM for atleast 2 or 3 years more.

He will put a winner on the field.

if it wasnt for maggs n franks injuries we would be playing TONIGHT.