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RKMeibalane
10-25-2004, 09:33 PM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.

idseer
10-25-2004, 09:57 PM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.
for the regular season games i disagree. if thomas is played at first it only means konerko would be the dh. since most people feel paul is a better 1st baseman than frank, paul takes first.
playoffs are a different story tho when you HAVE to do without your dh. i agree that thomas should be at first.

Jjav829
10-25-2004, 10:14 PM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.You're talking about two different scenarios. The Red Sox are in the World Series. David Ortiz has been an MVP candidate and was the ALCS MVP. There's no way that you sit him down in that situation. Give it up already. 2003 is over. Thomas is now coming off major surgery so you'll never have to bother with another "Thomas should play 1st base" post. Let's worry about this year. There are more important Frank Thomas concerns than whether or not he should have played 1st base 2 seasons ago.

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 10:29 PM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.
I disagree that it means anything more than that Manuel was a moron. I don't believe KW or JR have any say over the lineup, except inasmuch as they provide the roster in the first place, and in KW's case, he probably tells JM what he thinks. But to extrapolate that to an "organizational philosophy of getting mired in minor details" is a big stretch.

Although given his ankles, playing him there more may just have resulted in his injury happening last year instead of this year.

Mohoney
10-26-2004, 12:46 AM
playoffs are a different story tho when you HAVE to do without your dh. i agree that thomas should be at first.
Personally, I would go with whoever has the hot bat at the time.

If it's Frank, fine. If it's Paulie, fine too.

gosox41
10-26-2004, 09:45 AM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.
You're right. I've been advocating Frank playing 1B in all NL games for the simple reason that his offense is that much better then PK's.



Bob

batmanZoSo
10-26-2004, 01:09 PM
As a result of a decision made by Red Sox manager Terry Francona over the weekend, I can now say with absolute certainly that a significant difference in philosophies exists between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago White Sox. If you haven't already heard, it has been reported that Red Sox DH David Ortiz will shift to his natural position of first base for Games 3-5, which will be played in a National League park.

When I posted about this issue a few days ago, everyone who responded seemed to think that starting Ortiz was a no-brainer. After all, he is one of the two best hitters on the Red Sox roster, and he is the main reason why the Carmines were able to make a comeback against the Yankees in the ALCS. Despite being a defensive liability, it is clear to everyone that Ortiz must start at 1B. Only a fool would put Ortiz on the bench.

Those of you who have been members here for several years probably know where I'm going with this thread. Contrast Terry Francona's decision to start Ortiz at first with Jerry Manuel's decision not to play Frank Thomas at first base during the 2003 season, even though it was clear to everyone that he should be there.

To me, these two situations represent much more than a difference in managerial styles and decision-making processes. They represent a difference in philosophies from one organization to another. The Red Sox are in the World Series not only because they have a better team than the White Sox, but also because they understand that baseball is a competitive sport, and as is the case with all competitive sports, it must be played to win. The White Sox, on the other hand, are more concerned with minor issues, such as a player's weak throwing arm, than they are with doing what is clearly best for the team.

Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.


I think I agree all the way.

Put Frank at first every day in 03 (and we know how he kills the ball when he gets to play the field and doesn't beat himself up waiting on the bench) and Daubach, who has always put up 20+ homers and 75+ rbis when playing every day and we probably make the playoffs.

soxnut
10-27-2004, 12:01 AM
Everyone agrees that during the 2003 season, Frank Thomas should have been playing 1B every day, especially with Konerko struggling. And now, everyone agrees that David Ortiz should play in an NL park. The difference is, of course, that one organization understood this, and one did not. And White Sox officials wonder why their team hasn't won a World Series in more than eighty seven years.

Yeah, Frank should have been playing first at least since 1920.:tongue: