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WhiteSoxFan84
10-25-2004, 03:14 PM
Let's play a little Fantasy GM here.

You are Kenny Williams. Jerry Reinsdorf tells you, "Ay ah, Kenny, this offseason we can increase salary by about ah.... what ya say, $24 million? Yeh, I ah, feel good about this season Kenny, make me proud".

KW immediately thinks about acquiring Randy Johnson. But now you step in, with $24,000,000 to spend, what would you do?

Remember, contracts will be added up per year upto $24 million.

In () is either current salary per year or approximate value.

Ol' No. 2
10-25-2004, 03:53 PM
If I trade Lee or Konerko for RJ, I've freed up more than the remaining $7.5M. So now I've got just about enough to get Beltran, too. Or better still, enough to get Drew and some BP help. Or I can go after Delgado or Sexson. No brainer as far as I'm concerned.

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 04:18 PM
Let's play a little Fantasy GM here.

You are Kenny Williams. Jerry Reinsdorf tells you, "Ay ah, Kenny, this offseason we can increase salary by about ah.... what ya say, $24 million? Yeh, I ah, feel good about this season Kenny, make me proud".

KW immediately thinks about acquiring Randy Johnson. But now you step in, with $24,000,000 to spend, what would you do?

Remember, contracts will be added up per year upto $24 million.

In () is either current salary per year or approximate value.
- Trade Konerko for RJ: Net gain: $8.5mil
- Sign Beltran: $16mil
- Trade Shingo for prospects & sign 2 veteran relievers (I love Shingo, but 2 is better than 1): Example: Steve Kline makes $1.7mil & Terry Mulholland makes less than $1mil
- Trade Garland for prospects and have Ozzie's other niece call up Urbina and get him signed for Jon's 3mil or so arb award
- Have Carl Everett work out in ST at 1B

Lineup: Harris (2b)- Beltran (CF)-Thomas(DH)-Lee(LF)-Everett/Gload(1B)-ARow(RF)-Uribe(SS)-Crede(3B)Davis/Burke(C)

Rotation: RJ-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Grilli/Diaz

Bullpen: Urbina-Marte-Kline-Mulholland-Politte-Cotts/Adkins

Alternately,

- Trade Koney to the Spankees for Vazquez (net gain: 2mil)
- Sign Beltran (net gain: 17mil)
- Sign Vizquel (net gain: 3mil)
- Sign Urbina (net gain: 3mil)

Lineup: Beltran (CF)-Vizquel (SS)-Thomas (DH)-Lee (LF)-Everett/Gload (1B)-ARow (RF)-Uribe (SS)-Crede (3B)-Davis/Burke (C)

Rotation: Garcia-Buehrle-Vazquez-Contreras-Garland
Bullpen: Urbina-Shingo-Marte-Politte-2 of Grilli/Cotts/Adkins

Ol' No. 2
10-25-2004, 04:55 PM
- Trade Konerko for RJ: Net gain: $8.5mil
- Sign Beltran: $16mil
- Trade Shingo for prospects & sign 2 veteran relievers (I love Shingo, but 2 is better than 1): Example: Steve Kline makes $1.7mil & Terry Mulholland makes less than $1mil
- Trade Garland for prospects and have Ozzie's other niece call up Urbina and get him signed for Jon's 3mil or so arb award
- Have Carl Everett work out in ST at 1B

Lineup: Harris (2b)- Beltran (CF)-Thomas(DH)-Lee(LF)-Everett/Gload(1B)-ARow(RF)-Uribe(SS)-Crede(3B)Davis/Burke(C)

Rotation: RJ-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Grilli/Diaz

Bullpen: Urbina-Marte-Kline-Mulholland-Politte-Cotts/Adkins

Alternately,

- Trade Koney to the Spankees for Vazquez (net gain: 2mil)
- Sign Beltran (net gain: 17mil)
- Sign Vizquel (net gain: 3mil)
- Sign Urbina (net gain: 3mil)

Lineup: Beltran (CF)-Vizquel (SS)-Thomas (DH)-Lee (LF)-Everett/Gload (1B)-ARow (RF)-Uribe (SS)-Crede (3B)-Davis/Burke (C)

Rotation: Garcia-Buehrle-Vazquez-Contreras-Garland
Bullpen: Urbina-Shingo-Marte-Politte-2 of Grilli/Cotts/AdkinsI'm with you part way. The Tigers have a $4M option on Urbina - he's not going anywhere. The Yankees are going to sign Beltran (get used to it) and move Williams to share 1B/DH with Giambi, so they don't need Konerko. But for what you're paying Beltran you could probably get both Drew AND Sexson/Delgado (2 is better than 1, right?). You won't get Kline for what they're paying Takatsu, much less Kline AND Mulholland. But if you can find some sucker to take Dino off your hands, you could sign Kline with that money.

Is Schoeneweis signed for next year? Sounds like he's going to be in the BP, which will make him veerrry unhappy.:(: Make him happy :smile: and trade him somewhere that he can start and you've got another $2M to spend on a the BP.

Harris(4)-Rowand(8)-Thomas(DH)-Delgado(3)-Lee(7)-Drew(9)-Burke(2)-Uribe(6)-Crede(5)

Rotation: Johnson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland
BP: Takatsu-Marte-Politte-Kline-FA-Cotts-Adkins

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 05:18 PM
I'm with you part way. The Tigers have a $4M option on Urbina - he's not going anywhere. The Yankees are going to sign Beltran (get used to it) and move Williams to share 1B/DH with Giambi, so they don't need Konerko. But for what you're paying Beltran you could probably get both Drew AND Sexson/Delgado (2 is better than 1, right?). You won't get Kline for what they're paying Takatsu, much less Kline AND Mulholland. But if you can find some sucker to take Dino off your hands, you could sign Kline with that money.

Is Schoeneweis signed for next year? Sounds like he's going to be in the BP, which will make him veerrry unhappy.:(: Make him happy :smile: and trade him somewhere that he can start and you've got another $2M to spend on a the BP.

Harris(4)-Rowand(8)-Thomas(DH)-Delgado(3)-Lee(7)-Drew(9)-Burke(2)-Uribe(6)-Crede(5)

Rotation: Johnson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland
BP: Takatsu-Marte-Politte-Kline-FA-Cotts-Adkins
I think you can get a Kline-like guy for 1-2mil. Kline himself will likely be a bit overpriced having just appeared in the Series. But for 2.5-3mil, you should be able to find someone who can be a solid middle guy. Heck - Loaiza can probably do the job, he generally got lit up the 2d time around, but would be good for 1-2IP (assuming he can adjust to relieving).

As for Beltran, the issue the Yanks will have in signing him is not so much Bernie, but the rumored Steinbrenner $200m cap on salaries. The Yanks are moving into a 30% luxury tax, IIRC, so a 200M salary is actually like 260m. They want to stay "in budget" and upgrade pitching, it will be hard to get Beltran. But if they are interested, they'll get him.

From what I've herad, Shoney's a goner. And Delgado won't come unless the jays either don't make him an offer, or the Sox have a substantially larger one. He wouldn't go to a contender at the deadline because he likes it in Toronto. I highly doubt he'll move longer term unless there's a significant $$$ benefit for doing so.

Ol' No. 2
10-25-2004, 05:33 PM
I think you can get a Kline-like guy for 1-2mil. Kline himself will likely be a bit overpriced having just appeared in the Series. But for 2.5-3mil, you should be able to find someone who can be a solid middle guy. Heck - Loaiza can probably do the job, he generally got lit up the 2d time around, but would be good for 1-2IP (assuming he can adjust to relieving).

As for Beltran, the issue the Yanks will have in signing him is not so much Bernie, but the rumored Steinbrenner $200m cap on salaries. The Yanks are moving into a 30% luxury tax, IIRC, so a 200M salary is actually like 260m. They want to stay "in budget" and upgrade pitching, it will be hard to get Beltran. But if they are interested, they'll get him.

From what I've herad, Shoney's a goner. And Delgado won't come unless the jays either don't make him an offer, or the Sox have a substantially larger one. He wouldn't go to a contender at the deadline because he likes it in Toronto. I highly doubt he'll move longer term unless there's a significant $$$ benefit for doing so.The Yanks are actually moving into the 40% luxury tax bracket (it's on only the excess over the threshold), but if Steinbrenner actually puts a lid on payroll, the streets will be filled with the bodies of agents throwing themselves out of their windows. In the end, I'd be surprised if Steinbrenner didn't do what he's always done - spend. Even with his ridiculous payroll, he's still making tons of $$$$.

If I were GM, I'd try to move Dino. (Well, if I were GM, we wouldn't have Dino in the first place.) He's still got value as a DH, and $4M isn't a ridiculous amount of money. With his $4M and Schoeneweis' $2M, I could get two SOLID relievers and still keep Takatsu.

If they can't get Delgado, Sexson will be available. I don't like his high strikeouts, but he'll hit a ton in Coors East.

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 05:42 PM
The Yanks are actually moving into the 40% luxury tax bracket (it's on only the excess over the threshold), but if Steinbrenner actually puts a lid on payroll, the streets will be filled with the bodies of agents throwing themselves out of their windows. In the end, I'd be surprised if Steinbrenner didn't do what he's always done - spend. Even with his ridiculous payroll, he's still making tons of $$$$.

If I were GM, I'd try to move Dino. (Well, if I were GM, we wouldn't have Dino in the first place.) He's still got value as a DH, and $4M isn't a ridiculous amount of money. With his $4M and Schoeneweis' $2M, I could get two SOLID relievers and still keep Takatsu.

If they can't get Delgado, Sexson will be available. I don't like his high strikeouts, but he'll hit a ton in Coors East.
We'll see. It wouldn't surprise me if you're right, but the post-LCS reports were all about pitching. I'm not sold on the ability to move Everett, but if you can - I'd do it in a heartbeat, assuming you're making an OF signing. As for Sexson, I like him, but depends on the price. If you have to pay him $8mil or so/yr, I might rather put that $$$ into someone else (Drew)

hold2dibber
10-25-2004, 05:47 PM
If the Sox could somehow turn Konerko plus prospects into Randy Johnson, they'd have the $7.5 million left from your hypothetical PLUS the $8 million or so they'd save from having not having to pay Konerko. That means about $15 million more to spend. I'd use that to sign Pavano to a Freddy Garcia deal (about $9 million/year), sign Damien Miller to catch ($3 million) and a solid middle relief guy (Scott Williamson?). Then try to trade Garland for a high OBP guy (e.g., Garland plus Gload for Juanne Pierre). That would give you:

Lineup:
Pierre CF
Harris 2B
Thomas DH
Lee LF
Everett 1B
Rowand RF
Uribe SS
Crede 3B
Miller C

Rotation:
Johnson
Garcia
Buehrle
Pavano
Contreras

Pen:
Takatsu
Williamson
Politte
Adkins
Cotts
Diaz

Bench:
Davis
Valdez
Burke
Perez
Borchard or a low-cost FA reserve outfielder

The pen and bench would be pretty thin, but that rotation would probably be the best in baseball and the line-up would be solid and relatively well-balanced (lefty/righty, speed/power).

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 05:50 PM
Pen:
Takatsu
Williamson
Politte
Adkins
Cotts
Diaz


Did you cut Marte?


Bottom line: I think with a $24mil bump in payroll, you can do a lot to make this team a top contender.

Ol' No. 2
10-25-2004, 05:54 PM
We'll see. It wouldn't surprise me if you're right, but the post-LCS reports were all about pitching. I'm not sold on the ability to move Everett, but if you can - I'd do it in a heartbeat, assuming you're making an OF signing. As for Sexson, I like him, but depends on the price. If you have to pay him $8mil or so/yr, I might rather put that $$$ into someone else (Drew)No question the Yanks are going to have to upgrade their pitching. But I'm assuming Steinbrenner is like a barracuda: When he sees a top FA out there, he just HAS to go after him. He can't help himself.

You can paint this whole thread deep pink, because the premise was that I get another $24M to spend. With that, I can afford RJ, Drew AND Delgado/Sexson if I trade Lee or Konkero. As for Dino, he's still a pretty decent DH, and $4M is probably not overpaying if he can hit like he did in 2003. Someone is always looking for a good switch-hitting DH with some pop. Unfortunately, for some reason, Kenny is just in love with this guy, so it's probably not going to happen. I don't get it.

eshunn2001
10-25-2004, 06:01 PM
If i have 24 mill to add... Trade Lee/Konerko/Contreas to ARizona for RJ, and Bautista. Breaks us about even. Then Sign Pedro. Say 15. and use the rest to fill up the bullpen. Peace

Flight #24
10-25-2004, 07:18 PM
If i have 24 mill to add... Trade Lee/Konerko/Contreas to ARizona for RJ, and Bautista. Breaks us about even. Then Sign Pedro. Say 15. and use the rest to fill up the bullpen. Peace
:?:

Why would Arizona trade RJ to get back the same salary level but still nt have a contender? They'll want prospects.

And the Sox will have an offense centered on Frank, ARow & Danny Bautista???? Hello record breaking offense: record lows, that is. Your pitching better win a LOT of 1-0 and 2-1 games.

nitetrain8601
10-25-2004, 07:57 PM
Pretty much make every other deal these guys would make. Get RJ for Konerko, sign Beltran and possibly try to convince JR to give me 3 more mil to spend so I could sign a Delgado or Sexson on a one year deal with an option.

WhiteSoxFan84
10-26-2004, 12:45 AM
I did make this a fantasy thread, so I will tell you guys a little story about what I did in my baseball dynasty on MVP Baseball 2005 for the PS2. I'm currently in the 2005 season and the only original Sox players I have are Rowand (backup OF), Marte, and Politte. Some players I had to deal because of salary cap issues, others I dealt because I noticed the Sox were full of pretty bad contact hitters. Too many power hitters and not enough players to simply move a guy from 2nd to 3rd with less than 2 outs. Another problem was I had no lefties on my team. Jose Valentin was the only one and he was pretty awful.

My point here is the Sox will need to bring in some high OBP and solid contact hitters, especially lefties. I like Juan Pierre a ton. I like J.D. Drew a lot also. I like the RJ idea, but it's such a KW move. Bring a guy in for 1 year, lose a big time player in order to get him, and the guy leaves after that one year (i.e. David Wells, Bartolo Colon, Todd Ritchie). I'd prefer Pavano, Drew, and Pierre along with a few arms in the pen.

Mohoney
10-26-2004, 01:31 AM
If they increased payroll by this much, I would do the following:

1 Sign a quality FA SP at about $7-8 million per year over a 4 or 5 year deal.

2 Sign a quality FA RP at about $5-6 million per year over a 3 year deal.

3 Re-sign Magglio Ordonez, if at all feasible (Insist on having our doctors check him out. If he checks out OK, offer the original deal that we offered him before. If he turns it down, spend the money elsewhere, like more bullpen help or a good SS)

4 Don't trade anybody away.

I think that we can gamble on the likes of Garland, Crede, Harris, Uribe, and our catching situation if we make these moves. If we add Thomas, Ordonez, an upper-tier SP, and an upper-tier RP to the team we had last year, we're not so bad all of a sudden.

1 Rowand
2 Lee
3 Ordonez
4 Thomas
5 Konerko
6 Uribe
7 Crede
8 Davis
9 Harris

Your bench would be :Valdez, Gload, Perez, Burke

A starting rotation of:

1 Garcia
2 Buehrle
3 FA SP
4 Contreras
5 Garland

And a bullpen of:

Grilli, Cotts, Bajenaru, Politte, Marte, FA RP, Shingo

I see this team as a tremendous upgrade over where we were at the beginning of last year. Garland is no longer the #3 starter, he's the #5. Valentin is being replaced by a better defender that will hit at least 50 points higher. We're adding OBP, BA, and power with Magglio and Frank. Cotts and Bajenaru (replacing Adkins) will be used primarily in junk time, and neither will have to go long if we keep Grilli as the long man/spot starter. Politte is the 4th option instead of the 3rd, and won't be overworked. Marte's workload won't be as heavy, either. If the FA RP is a closer, we have the benefit of making Shingo an 8th inning man.

hitlesswonder
10-26-2004, 02:13 AM
If I were GM, I'd try to move Dino. (Well, if I were GM, we wouldn't have Dino in the first place.) He's still got value as a DH, and $4M isn't a ridiculous amount of money. With his $4M and Schoeneweis' $2M, I could get two SOLID relievers and still keep Takatsu.

If I remember correctly, Schoenweis doesn't have a contract for next season, and I believe the Southtown predicted he wouldn't be brought back. As for Everett, I don't think you can trade him unless part of the salary is picked up by the Sox. He hasn't shown he can play the outfield still, which means he's a DH only. And he had a .593 OPS vs. lefties last season, so he's only nominally a switch hitter. I think a comparable guy would be Brad Fullmer (lefty 1B/DH) with a career OPS of .822 (about the same as Everett) and he signed for 1 million last year.

Actually, before last season I thought Fullmer would have been an interesting guy to bring in if they traded Konerko. But, he only stayed healthy for 70 games, hit badly, and it turned out the Sox needed a right-handed bat last year not a lefty. And Konerko topped 40 HRs. Just another example of why I'd be a bad fantasy GM (let alone a real one).

jordan23ventura
10-26-2004, 03:36 AM
Sign Pavano (+8mil), trade Crede + Garland + whatnot for Ben Sheets and sign him (+4mil)

Sign Beltre at 12mil.

Trade PK for prospects, and send those prospects along with any of ours except McCarthy and Anderson to Florida for Juan Pierre or Tampa Bay for Carl Crawford, and ink that guy too.

With about a couple mil left over, go out and get Wilson Alvarez for LR/sub SP if somebody goes down.

Rotation: Pavano, Buerhle, Garcia, Sheets, Contreras

Bullpen: CL Shingo, SU Marte, RS Politte, LS Cotts, LR Alvarez, Munoz/Diaz/Adkins/Grilli/non-roster invitee

Bench: Timo, Gload, Valdez, Burke, Borchard

Lineup:
1) Pierre/Crawford CF
2) Lee 1B
3) Rowand RF
4) Thomas DH
5) Beltre 3B
6) Everett LF
7) Davis C
8) Uribe SS
9) Harris 2B

MrKinsella
10-26-2004, 04:17 AM
I'm on board for the Unit deal. As its been noted, under the hypothetical notion that we bump salary 24 million this leaves about 15 million to fill holes if they trade away Konerko, and send him home to Scottsdale were he is from. I hate to send out a great guy like Konerko, but thats the way the game works. Sign Delgado or Sexson also and use the rest of the cash to get Bullpen help. Keep Shingo at closer, and don't sign Scott Williamson, unless they get extra runs for winning the "team with the player who looks the most like John Malkovich" contest. Teddy KGB just had major shoulder surgery.
By signing a big gate draw that deep pink 24 million seems more rose, and the addition of a true Ace is the best we could ever hope for. If the baseball gods are cruel to us and the unit suddenly falls apart, we will have plenty of financial freedom the following year with the Unit off the books.

jabrch
10-26-2004, 09:12 AM
the second half of this fantasy should involve a harem of 300 hot women taking care of my every need. The latter is more likely than a 24mm payroll increase.

gosox41
10-26-2004, 09:25 AM
[QUOTE=Flight #24]- Trade Konerko for RJ: Net gain: $8.5mil
/QUOTE]


Don't you think the D-Backs will want more then just PK for Randy Johnson?



Bob

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2004, 09:58 AM
If I remember correctly, Schoenweis doesn't have a contract for next season, and I believe the Southtown predicted he wouldn't be brought back. As for Everett, I don't think you can trade him unless part of the salary is picked up by the Sox. He hasn't shown he can play the outfield still, which means he's a DH only. And he had a .593 OPS vs. lefties last season, so he's only nominally a switch hitter. I think a comparable guy would be Brad Fullmer (lefty 1B/DH) with a career OPS of .822 (about the same as Everett) and he signed for 1 million last year.

Actually, before last season I thought Fullmer would have been an interesting guy to bring in if they traded Konerko. But, he only stayed healthy for 70 games, hit badly, and it turned out the Sox needed a right-handed bat last year not a lefty. And Konerko topped 40 HRs. Just another example of why I'd be a bad fantasy GM (let alone a real one).I thought Schoeneweis had a 2-yr deal, but I could be mistaken. Dino's numbers were down from normal last year due to being injured. (Being out of shape didn't help, either.) If he does anything close to his career numbers, he's worth the $4M as a DH. I think Kenny will keep him to hedge against Thomas' ankle problem, which isn't a bad move. If Thomas is healthy, I'd trade Dino and put Timo out in RF.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 10:08 AM
[QUOTE=Flight #24]- Trade Konerko for RJ: Net gain: $8.5mil
/QUOTE]


Don't you think the D-Backs will want more then just PK for Randy Johnson?



Bob
They might. I'd throw in some mid-level prospects, none of the usual names we see thrown around though. Or Garland. But I doubt they get a ton of real value. Their value is going to be in losing a big chunk of salary. Not many teams will be willing to take on that $$$ AND give up good prospects. The Spankees are one, but they don't have many good ones.

It also depends on whether or not they can resign Sexson. If not, they'll have an opening at 1B. Koney's from AZ, IIRC - so they can get him for a year, possibly resign him (and I'd bet at less than $8mil), and have a hometown boy.

But I wouldn't do a deal if it included any of Anderson, Sweeney, BMac, Fields, Gio, Honel.

Jjav829
10-26-2004, 10:10 AM
My point here is the Sox will need to bring in some high OBP and solid contact hitters, especially lefties. I like Juan Pierre a ton. I like J.D. Drew a lot also. I like the RJ idea, but it's such a KW move. Bring a guy in for 1 year, lose a big time player in order to get him, and the guy leaves after that one year (i.e. David Wells, Bartolo Colon, Todd Ritchie). I'd prefer Pavano, Drew, and Pierre along with a few arms in the pen.
While you call bringing in RJ a KW move, I'd say it's more like a JR move. It's taking on a big contract for one year to give the fans something to be excited about, but knowing that after one year that player is gone. If we do somehow manage to land the Unit, I don't think it is going to be a "this or that" type move. In other words, I don't think it is Kenny saying that trading a Lee or Konerko to take on RJ for one year is a better move than trading Lee or Konerko and going after a few players. More than likely, it is JR saying that he'll approve the payroll increase for one year because it is a player the caliber of RJ and only for one year. If Kenny went to him and asked for a payroll increase whereby he'd trade Lee or Konerko and use that same $16 million figure to go after say Pavano for a nice 3 year deal and maybe another starter such as Odalis Perez, or even a reliever, I think the answer would be no.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 10:19 AM
While you call bringing in RJ a KW move, I'd say it's more like a JR move. It's taking on a big contract for one year to give the fans something to be excited about, but knowing that after one year that player is gone. If we do somehow manage to land the Unit, I don't think it is going to be a "this or that" type move. In other words, I don't think it is Kenny saying that trading a Lee or Konerko to take on RJ for one year is a better move than trading Lee or Konerko and going after a few players. More than likely, it is JR saying that he'll approve the payroll increase for one year because it is a player the caliber of RJ and only for one year. If Kenny went to him and asked for a payroll increase whereby he'd trade Lee or Konerko and use that same $16 million figure to go after say Pavano for a nice 3 year deal and maybe another starter such as Odalis Perez, or even a reliever, I think the answer would be no.
I'd disagree, only because right now the Sox can turn almost anything into a 1-year payroll bump. Konerko & Shingo are FAs after '05 ($10.5mil). Lee will be in his last year (so highly tradeable - $8mil). And Thomas has a buyout either after 05 or 06 (can't remember which). So Kenny can go to JR and say "Beltran's $16mil/yr over 5 years is a 1-year pay bump because if it's not working, we can cut 18mil after or during '05 by trading/not resigning Lee, Koney, Shingo and replacing them with Anderson & Sweeney who should be ready for '06".

Now in a deeper than deep pink world, KW combines our arguments and says "Beltran is a hedgeable pay bump, and RJ is on a 1-year deal, so give me 1 year with a big salary and I'll either deliver a title or cut payroll back to '04 levels, and reduce further after '06 by letting Contreras & Frank go".

Clarkdog
10-26-2004, 11:01 AM
Okay, I have a bit different take but hear me out.

When it comes to plotting the Sox direction you have to make some assumptions. Here are mine:
1. You don't assemble a pitching staff with this much "potential" unless you are trying to win. So this effort is a retooling, not a rebuilding.
2. Joe Borchard is going to get every chance to win the RF job in Spring, Everett will DH until Thomas is 100%. If Borchard isn't working out by the time Thomas is back, Everett and Borchard will platoon in RF.
3. SS is a want position. It is not a need. The Sox have other needs with pitching and bullpen help that surpass the desire to improve at SS.
4. You have to part with either Lee or Konerko. If you deal Lee, you now have a need for offense and OF help. If you deal Konerko, you need to replace his offensive production.

Also, adding $24M to payroll is not realistic. These are the White Sox. While attendance was up, you can't expect them to go from $68M to $92M. I'm thinking somewhere shy of $80M.

So there are plenty of trading partners out there, but who is the best fit? I have been going round and round and the team that makes the most sense is (hold your breath) - the Oakland A's.

The A's need pop in their lineup. The Sox need pitching. I think you could consumate a deal that ships either Lee or Konerko to Oakland for Barry Zito. There have been rumor abound that Zito is available, and the A's are looking for a slot in the rotation to promote Joe Blanton (see Moneyball on the story about him, KW, Royce Ring, and Billy Beane)

Now this leaves an offensive hole for the Sox. Particluarly if you trade Lee. You could attempt to address this one of two ways. You could get into the bidding war for Carlos Beltran, or you could try and expand the deal with the A's to obtain Eric Byrnes. Byrnes is arbitration eligable and is likely to receive a nice payday. There is talk he could be trade bait. He's an OBP guy that can hit for average - a "grinder" if there ever was one.

Then you would take the money left over and spend to build up the bullpen.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 11:25 AM
The A's need pop in their lineup. The Sox need pitching. I think you could consumate a deal that ships either Lee or Konerko to Oakland for Barry Zito. There have been rumor abound that Zito is available, and the A's are looking for a slot in the rotation to promote Joe Blanton (see Moneyball on the story about him, KW, Royce Ring, and Billy Beane)

Now this leaves an offensive hole for the Sox. Particluarly if you trade Lee. You could attempt to address this one of two ways. You could get into the bidding war for Carlos Beltran, or you could try and expand the deal with the A's to obtain Eric Byrnes. Byrnes is arbitration eligable and is likely to receive a nice payday. There is talk he could be trade bait. He's an OBP guy that can hit for average - a "grinder" if there ever was one.

Then you would take the money left over and spend to build up the bullpen.
Zito scares me on the Sox. Terrible GB/FB ratio, declining #s the past few years, and IIRC, he's FA eligible after 05. But I like Byrnes. I'd prefer Mulder/Hudson, but I'd guess that's unlikely for CLee or Koney.

Clarkdog
10-26-2004, 11:32 AM
Zito scares me on the Sox. Terrible GB/FB ratio, declining #s the past few years, and IIRC, he's FA eligible after 05. But I like Byrnes. I'd prefer Mulder/Hudson, but I'd guess that's unlikely for CLee or Koney.
Zito has a team option in 2006 for $7M. I'd like Hudson too but he is a FA after 2005.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 11:37 AM
Zito has a team option in 2006 for $7M. I'd like Hudson too but he is a FA after 2005.
For 2005, I'd much rather have Hudson. Then the Sox would have another option to either resign (if things are going well), or for some high compensation picks. Huddy's only making $5mil too. Konerko for Hudson is too much to even hope for, it would probably have to be CLee. I only do that trade if you're going to go get Beltran and/or if you can add in a mid-level prospect for Byrnes.

Harris-Beltran-Thomas-Konerko-ARow-Byrnes-Uribe-Crede-Davis/Burke and a rotation of Hudson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland is studly, if a bit right handed in the order.

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2004, 11:54 AM
For 2005, I'd much rather have Hudson. Then the Sox would have another option to either resign (if things are going well), or for some high compensation picks. Huddy's only making $5mil too. Konerko for Hudson is too much to even hope for, it would probably have to be CLee. I only do that trade if you're going to go get Beltran and/or if you can add in a mid-level prospect for Byrnes.

Harris-Beltran-Thomas-Konerko-ARow-Byrnes-Uribe-Crede-Davis/Burke and a rotation of Hudson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland is studly, if a bit right handed in the order.I don't see the A's passing on Byrnes. He's not going to break the bank. They've said re-signing Hudson is a top priority, but with Chavez' big raise and increases to a lot of other players, Beane has a problem. Something has to give.

I think Hudson MIGHT be had, but the more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems that they would want a player with a big contract like CLee. Hudson for CLee would be a net INCREASE in payroll. With Dye being cut loose, they need a RF. Rowand would be their ideal guy, but I would consider that only if I was certain I could re-sign Hudson to a reasonable contract. And even then it would be tough.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 11:57 AM
I don't see the A's passing on Byrnes. He's not going to break the bank. They've said re-signing Hudson is a top priority, but with Chavez' big raise and increases to a lot of other players, Beane has a problem. Something has to give.

I think Hudson MIGHT be had, but the more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems that they would want a player with a big contract like CLee. Hudson for CLee would be a net INCREASE in payroll. With Dye being cut loose, they need a RF. Rowand would be their ideal guy, but I would consider that only if I was certain I could re-sign Hudson to a reasonable contract. And even then it would be tough.
I'd say no to dealing ARow. Hudson's nice, but I'd much rather keep Aaron and go get someone on the FA market. For $5-6mil, you can get someone solid and still have Rowand. It's not Hudson, but the overall team would be better IMO. The advantage in doing it for Lee/Konerko is that you free up $$$ to use elsewhere. Trading ARow creates another hole and adds payroll, limiting the ability to do other things.

ewokpelts
10-26-2004, 11:58 AM
I'd " reassign" this guy:


:reinsy


Gene

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2004, 12:07 PM
The advantage in doing it for Lee/Konerko is that you free up $$$ to use elsewhere.Unfortunately, that's exactly why the A's wouldn't do it. Their only reason for trading Hudson is to save money. Trading him for either Lee or Konerko is a net increase in payroll.

Most of the money they saved by launching Dye is spent on raises to current players (Chavez being the big one). What's left they can use to pay Byrne, but then there's no way they have the $$$ to re-sign Hudson. They're probably going to have to choose between the two. In some ways, their problem mirrors the Sox. They already have a hole to fill in RF, so trading Byrne just makes it more difficult. They've got some good young pitchers waiting in the wings, so I'd bet it will be Hudson that goes for an OF, and it has to be an inexpensive one.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 12:18 PM
Unfortunately, that's exactly why the A's wouldn't do it. Their only reason for trading Hudson is to save money. Trading him for either Lee or Konerko is a net increase in payroll.

Most of the money they saved by launching Dye is spent on raises to current players (Chavez being the big one). What's left they can use to pay Byrne, but then there's no way they have the $$$ to re-sign Hudson. They're probably going to have to choose between the two. In some ways, their problem mirrors the Sox. They already have a hole to fill in RF, so trading Byrne just makes it more difficult. They've got some good young pitchers waiting in the wings, so I'd bet it will be Hudson that goes for an OF, and it has to be an inexpensive one.
While it goes against my gut, I might consider Anderson/Sweeney for Huddy, IF the Sox are serious about either resigning him and/or upping payroll by a decent amount. Then see if you can trade Konerko for bullpen or IF help (Orioles for Hairston+Julio was suggested a while back and would fit).

In that scenario, you end up about flat in payroll by subtracting Konerko and adding Hudson/Julio/Hairston. You then take any payroll bump and sign Drew ($8mil/yr sounds about right).

Hairston-ARow-Frank-Drew-CLee-Everett/Gload-Uribe-Crede-Davis/Burke, a rotation of Hudson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland, and a bullpen of Julio-Shingo-Marte-Politte-Cotts/Adkins/Grilli/Diaz and a total payroll bump of 8-10mil.

WhiteSoxFan84
10-26-2004, 12:37 PM
I may have misworded my original post. What I meant by increasing salary by $24 mill is that KW would have $24 mill to spend this offseason. If you add up the salaries we will lose this offseason (Magglio 14 + Valentin 6 + Koch 6 + Loaiza 3.25 + whomever else we lost) and then subtract that from the salaries we picked up (Garcia's extension 9 + Contreras 8) you get about 10-11 mill. Now the other 13 mill would come from JR realizing he owns a major league team in a major league city and the need to have a payroll in the 80mill range.

Flight #24
10-26-2004, 12:39 PM
I may have misworded my original post. What I meant by increasing salary by $24 mill is that KW would have $24 mill to spend this offseason. If you add up the salaries we will lose this offseason (Magglio 14 + Valentin 6 + Koch 6 + Loaiza 3.25 + whomever else we lost) and then subtract that from the salaries we picked up (Garcia's extension 9 + Contreras 8) you get about 10-11 mill. Now the other 13 mill would come from JR realizing he owns a major league team in a major league city and the need to have a payroll in the 80mill range.
You missed raises due to other players on the roster, which total about $10mil. So all you REALLY have under your scenario is 13mil, which changes the situation dramatically - Beltran is out. In that scenario, I'd probably do a Konerko+Garland-RJ trade, and use the remaining 8 or somil left to try and sign JD Drew and 1 or 2 cheap relievers.

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2004, 01:12 PM
While it goes against my gut, I might consider Anderson/Sweeney for Huddy, IF the Sox are serious about either resigning him and/or upping payroll by a decent amount. Then see if you can trade Konerko for bullpen or IF help (Orioles for Hairston+Julio was suggested a while back and would fit).

In that scenario, you end up about flat in payroll by subtracting Konerko and adding Hudson/Julio/Hairston. You then take any payroll bump and sign Drew ($8mil/yr sounds about right).

Hairston-ARow-Frank-Drew-CLee-Everett/Gload-Uribe-Crede-Davis/Burke, a rotation of Hudson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland, and a bullpen of Julio-Shingo-Marte-Politte-Cotts/Adkins/Grilli/Diaz and a total payroll bump of 8-10mil.I don't think you'll get Hudson for prospects alone. They're going to want a major-league player and maybe a prospect, too. And they'll probably get it. The other way the Sox might get in on this is to engineer a 3-way deal, where the Sox send players and/or prospects to a third team, who sends an OF and/or prospects to Oakland, who sends Hudson to the Sox. Any way the Sox can get Hudson without depleting the minor league system too badly, is OK by me IF they can get Hudson signed to an extension. I'd obviously wouldn't want to give up as much for a rent-a-player deal. Does Hudson speak Spanish? Is he married? Ozzie might have another niece that's available.

eshunn2001
10-26-2004, 04:54 PM
:?:

Why would Arizona trade RJ to get back the same salary level but still nt have a contender? They'll want prospects.

And the Sox will have an offense centered on Frank, ARow & Danny Bautista???? Hello record breaking offense: record lows, that is. Your pitching better win a LOT of 1-0 and 2-1 games.
Don't forget the ever Dangerous Carl Everett

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2004, 05:07 PM
Don't forget the ever Dangerous Carl EverettA few possible places to trade Dino:

Seattle: Edgar retires
Texas: All right, forget Texas.
Tampa: Robert Fick is the incumbent
NYY: Depends on a lot of things, but they could be looking for a DH, and $4M is cheap for them.