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MeanFish
10-21-2004, 11:36 PM
Here's the kind of thing I'd try to do. Add some speed, fielding, and consistency to the lineup while padding the bullpen a lot. Take this lineup for instance:

1B: Paul Konerko
2B: Jerry Hairston Jr. (Trade for Gload)
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Randa (FA Acquisition)
RF: JD Drew (FA Acquisition)
LF: Carlos Lee
CF: Aaron Rowand
C: Damian Miller (FA Acquisition)
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
-Timo Perez
-Carl Everett
-Willie Harris
-Wilson Valdez
-Joe Borchard

Starting Rotation:
1 - Mark Buerhle
2 - Freddy Garcia
3 - Jon Garland
4 - Jose Contreras
5 - Wilson Alvarez (FA Acquisition)

Relief Pitching:
CP - Shingo Takatsu
SU - Damaso Marte
SU - Rafael Soriano (in trade for Joe Crede)
MRP - Armando Benitez (FA Acquisition)
MRP - Cliff Politte
MRP - Neal Cotts
LRP - Arnie Munoz

This doesn't cost *too* much more than what we came into this last year with. Obviously we don't need these *exact* players but even so this could be a filthy roster. Now, the only one that doesn't immediately make sense is Damian Miller, but it's my feeling that he could do a lot of good for a club that has trouble getting successful performances out of young pitchers. Any thoughts? And yes, I know Rafael Soriano is recovering from surgery. It could be worth the risk though. Maybe.

MRKARNO
10-21-2004, 11:49 PM
This doesn't cost *too* much more than what we came into this last year with. Obviously we don't need these *exact* players but even so this could be a filthy roster. Now, the only one that doesn't immediately make sense is Damian Miller, but it's my feeling that he could do a lot of good for a club that has trouble getting successful performances out of young pitchers. Any thoughts? And yes, I know Rafael Soriano is recovering from surgery. It could be worth the risk though. Maybe.

I like your general way of thinking, but I have two issues with it:

1. Soriano is recovering from Tommy John surgery, which still doesn't have a perfect success rate

2. JD Drew is still an injury liability as well. This is his first year in which he has played at this level and been healthy the duration, otherwise he would be a great pickup.

But those risks might be ones worth taking and overal this is a pretty solid plan.

Mohoney
10-21-2004, 11:54 PM
Here's the kind of thing I'd try to do. Add some speed, fielding, and consistency to the lineup while padding the bullpen a lot. Take this lineup for instance:

1B: Paul Konerko
2B: Jerry Hairston Jr. (Trade for Gload)
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Randa (FA Acquisition)
RF: JD Drew (FA Acquisition)
LF: Carlos Lee
CF: Aaron Rowand
C: Damian Miller (FA Acquisition)
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
-Timo Perez
-Carl Everett
-Willie Harris
-Wilson Valdez
-Joe Borchard

Starting Rotation:
1 - Mark Buerhle
2 - Freddy Garcia
3 - Jon Garland
4 - Jose Contreras
5 - Wilson Alvarez (FA Acquisition)

Relief Pitching:
CP - Shingo Takatsu
SU - Damaso Marte
SU - Rafael Soriano (in trade for Joe Crede)
MRP - Armando Benitez (FA Acquisition)
MRP - Cliff Politte
MRP - Neal Cotts
LRP - Arnie Munoz

This doesn't cost *too* much more than what we came into this last year with. Obviously we don't need these *exact* players but even so this could be a filthy roster. Now, the only one that doesn't immediately make sense is Damian Miller, but it's my feeling that he could do a lot of good for a club that has trouble getting successful performances out of young pitchers. Any thoughts? And yes, I know Rafael Soriano is recovering from surgery. It could be worth the risk though. Maybe.
Jon Garland as the #3? We already tried that. It got us nowhere. Take the Drew money and get a real SP.

California Sox
10-22-2004, 12:04 AM
Just for fun I'll point out that J.D. Drew is yet another FA outfielder who's a client of Scott Boras. So, if we're going to have trouble signing Maggs or Beltran, I'm afraid it's ditto for Drew. Man, it seems like Boras represents the entire free agent class this year.

MeanFish
10-22-2004, 12:11 AM
As far as pitchers go, Eric Milton could be a good guy to take a chance on while he's under the radar. Is he a Boras client too? :-P I mean, we know he can pitch well in the AL Central.

JackParkman
10-22-2004, 12:40 AM
FWIW, it's been reported that Drew wants to go somewhere he can play centerfield.
Here's a thought: why not go get Jose Guillen and stick him in right field? Yeah, he's a headcase, but maybe Ozzie can get him under control. At his price (scheduled to make $3.5 million next year) and production (.294/27/104) he's worth the risk.
Then, instead of throwing $10-14 million at an outfielder, have $6-9 million for a legitimate top 3 starter, i.e. Radke, Benson, Perez, Lowe.

Flight #24
10-22-2004, 12:45 AM
FWIW, it's been reported that Drew wants to go somewhere he can play centerfield.
Here's a thought: why not go get Jose Guillen and stick him in right field? Yeah, he's a headcase, but maybe Ozzie can get him under control. At his price (scheduled to make $3.5 million next year) and production (.294/27/104) he's worth the risk.
Then, instead of throwing $10-14 million at an outfielder, have $6-9 million for a legitimate top 3 starter, i.e. Radke, Benson, Perez, Lowe.
I like it, but who you giving up for Jose?

The Cheat
10-22-2004, 01:01 AM
Randa :angry: No f'n way...

hitlesswonder
10-22-2004, 01:12 AM
FWIW, it's been reported that Drew wants to go somewhere he can play centerfield.
Here's a thought: why not go get Jose Guillen and stick him in right field? Yeah, he's a headcase, but maybe Ozzie can get him under control. At his price (scheduled to make $3.5 million next year) and production (.294/27/104) he's worth the risk.
Then, instead of throwing $10-14 million at an outfielder, have $6-9 million for a legitimate top 3 starter, i.e. Radke, Benson, Perez, Lowe.
I don't know, Ozzie didn't seem like a model of calm level-headedness himself this season. I'm not sure he could handle Jose in only his second year of managing at any level. Also, the Dodgers had to give up some decent talent (Franklin Gutierrez I think) for Milton Bradley in a similar situation. If the Angels hold out for that kind of talent (which I think would mean Anderson or Sweeney) I'd vote for stearing clear, but I do like the idea of spending more money on pitching than on an OF. Of the ones you mentioned, I like both Perez and Lowe although price is always a factor.

hitlesswonder
10-22-2004, 01:30 AM
Randa :angry: No f'n way... Any particular reason why? I know sabermetrics people don't like Randa because he lacks power, but he has a decent BA, not a terrible OBP, can bunt, and would help fill the yawning hole that is the #2 spot in the Sox lineup. If he comes cheap for 2 years it might not be a bad stopgap till Josh Fields is (hopefully) ready. I feel like giving Crede another year is probably a good idea (trading him now would be selling very low), but he did have some of the worst numbers in MLB for a starting 3B last year.

BTW, your blog is great. I particularly liked the stuff about Christian Guzman. And I agree Polanco would be a good pickup:smile:

StillMissOzzie
10-22-2004, 01:33 AM
Any particular reason why? I know sabermetrics people don't like Randa because he lacks power, but he has a decent BA, not a terrible OBP, can bunt, and would help fill the yawning hole that is the #2 spot in the Sox lineup.
Screw the number crunchers, I wouldn't mind having Joe Randa only because he KILLS the Sox, both with his bat and with his glove. Just having him in pinstripes would assure the Sox of 4-6 more wins a year.

SMO
:gulp:

The Cheat
10-22-2004, 02:07 AM
Any particular reason why? I know sabermetrics people don't like Randa because he lacks power, but he has a decent BA, not a terrible OBP, can bunt, and would help fill the yawning hole that is the #2 spot in the Sox lineup. If he comes cheap for 2 years it might not be a bad stopgap till Josh Fields is (hopefully) ready. I feel like giving Crede another year is probably a good idea (trading him now would be selling very low), but he did have some of the worst numbers in MLB for a starting 3B last year.

BTW, your blog is great. I particularly liked the stuff about Christian Guzman. And I agree Polanco would be a good pickup:smile:
No to Randa from more of a financial standpoint...

Is he an upgrade over Crede? maybe.

worth wasting money in free angecy for a marginal improvement? Not a chance.

Crede will likely improve, and outproduce Randa. and he surely would outproduce Randa if we shipped him out. Why waste money on a 34 y.o. who'd not going to get any better when you've got a cheap option, who's only got one way to go waiting in the wings?

Man Soo Lee
10-22-2004, 02:21 AM
Also, the Dodgers had to give up some decent talent (Franklin Gutierrez I think) for Milton Bradley in a similar situation. If the Angels hold out for that kind of talent (which I think would mean Anderson or Sweeney) I'd vote for stearing clear, but I do like the idea of spending more money on pitching than on an OF.
Guillen might not have the same value with only one year remaining on his contract. Bradley was at least three years from free agency when he was traded.

ETA: There is a $4 million option for '06 in Guillen's contract. So, nevermind.

The_Floridian
10-22-2004, 03:09 AM
I'm particularly fond of snagging Miller and Hairston. Hairston still ahs good speed and switch hits, and his defense is decent as I remember.

Damian Miller is one of the better defensive catchers in baseball and I think he could bring some leadership to the role as well.

samram
10-22-2004, 06:28 AM
Screw the number crunchers, I wouldn't mind having Joe Randa only because he KILLS the Sox, both with his bat and with his glove. Just having him in pinstripes would assure the Sox of 4-6 more wins a year.

SMO
:gulp:
I don't like signing guys because they played well against the Sox in the past. Look what happened to the Jeff Blauser when he signed with the Cubs.

Soxzilla
10-22-2004, 08:35 AM
Add Hairston to the liability pile as well, he seems to get injured every single year.

wdelaney72
10-22-2004, 09:32 AM
Here's the kind of thing I'd try to do. Add some speed, fielding, and consistency to the lineup while padding the bullpen a lot. Take this lineup for instance:

1B: Paul Konerko
2B: Jerry Hairston Jr. (Trade for Gload)
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Randa (FA Acquisition)
RF: JD Drew (FA Acquisition)
LF: Carlos Lee
CF: Aaron Rowand
C: Damian Miller (FA Acquisition)
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
-Timo Perez
-Carl Everett
-Willie Harris
-Wilson Valdez
-Joe Borchard

Starting Rotation:
1 - Mark Buerhle
2 - Freddy Garcia
3 - Jon Garland
4 - Jose Contreras
5 - Wilson Alvarez (FA Acquisition)

Relief Pitching:
CP - Shingo Takatsu
SU - Damaso Marte
SU - Rafael Soriano (in trade for Joe Crede)
MRP - Armando Benitez (FA Acquisition)
MRP - Cliff Politte
MRP - Neal Cotts
LRP - Arnie Munoz

This doesn't cost *too* much more than what we came into this last year with. Obviously we don't need these *exact* players but even so this could be a filthy roster. Now, the only one that doesn't immediately make sense is Damian Miller, but it's my feeling that he could do a lot of good for a club that has trouble getting successful performances out of young pitchers. Any thoughts? And yes, I know Rafael Soriano is recovering from surgery. It could be worth the risk though. Maybe.
I applaud youur effort in trying to paint a realistic scenario. But, even KW would look at this SP roster and go "Ugh!". Signing Wilson Alvarez is just not enough to improve the SP. I accept we're not going to be able to sign Pavano, but I'm hopeful KW will realize that we need to sign 1 if not 2 quality starting pitchers. Derek Lowe may be a decent pickup, given our new little league park, as long as his price tag doesn't rise up suddenly. I also think Odalis Perez is a good possibility.

Randa is not a bad idea, depending on who we give up, also, I like the Damian Miller pickup, but I think KW is going to settle on the Davis / Burke platoon.

LIke it or not, Carl Everett and his $4 million salary will be starting at RF. I think we can forget any upgrades in the OF, which is fine with me, provided we upgrade 2 positions in the infield.

Thank you for putting Willie Harris on the bench - it's where he belongs.

mjharrison72
10-22-2004, 10:27 AM
I like your general way of thinking, but I have two issues with it:

1. Soriano is recovering from Tommy John surgery, which still doesn't have a perfect success rate

2. JD Drew is still an injury liability as well. This is his first year in which he has played at this level and been healthy the duration, otherwise he would be a great pickup.

But those risks might be ones worth taking and overal this is a pretty solid plan.
Hairston Jr., as much as I love him, is injury-prone as well. Also wondering how Armando would fit in as a middle reliever... wouldn't he challenge Shingo for the closer spot? At the very least, Benitez would be the clear set-up man ahead of Marte.

jabrch
10-22-2004, 10:29 AM
Benitez will get closer money from someone. I doubt he'd be a setup guy.

mjharrison72
10-22-2004, 10:37 AM
Isn't Edgar Renteria a FA after this season? Am I completely deluding myself to say the Sox should go after him ahead of an outfielder, spend some money on a better #3 starter and some bullpen help? I would love to have a decent glove at short, put Uribe at 2B or 3B, depending on whether we keep Crede or not, and use Renteria as a #2 hitter behind Rowand. It would also be nice to have someone with solid playoff experience in the infield.

WhteSox725
10-22-2004, 10:38 AM
1B: Paul Konerko
2B: Jerry Hairston Jr. (Trade for Gload)
SS: Juan Uribe
3B: Joe Randa (FA Acquisition)
RF: JD Drew (FA Acquisition)
LF: Carlos Lee
CF: Aaron Rowand
C: Damian Miller (FA Acquisition)
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
-Timo Perez
-Carl Everett
-Willie Harris
-Wilson Valdez
-Joe Borchard

Who would be the backup catcher?

jabrch
10-22-2004, 10:47 AM
Isn't Edgar Renteria a FA after this season? Am I completely deluding myself to say the Sox should go after him ahead of an outfielder, spend some money on a better #3 starter and some bullpen help? I would love to have a decent glove at short, put Uribe at 2B or 3B, depending on whether we keep Crede or not, and use Renteria as a #2 hitter behind Rowand. It would also be nice to have someone with solid playoff experience in the infield.

STL is going to almost surely resign him. Given that they have all this extra playoff revenue, they should easily be able to afford him.

mjharrison72
10-22-2004, 10:48 AM
Who would be the backup catcher?
Davis would be my thought, in that case, but I am NOT a fan of Damian Miller. If we're going to spend any money on a decent catcher, it should be Varitek or nobody.

Mickster
10-22-2004, 10:48 AM
Who would be the backup catcher?
Don't you mean "backup catchers"? :D:

jabrch
10-22-2004, 10:59 AM
Davis would be my thought, in that case, but I am NOT a fan of Damian Miller. If we're going to spend any money on a decent catcher, it should be Varitek or nobody.
Varitek is gonna get too much money for too long a term. I'd duck him like the plague. I read someone estimating he'd get 4/40... No thanks.

mjharrison72
10-22-2004, 11:03 AM
Varitek is gonna get too much money for too long a term. I'd duck him like the plague. I read someone estimating he'd get 4/40... No thanks.I agree... there's no way he's worth $10 million a year. Like KW would pay him that anyway. 3/18 might be worth it, but you're probably right... if the Red Sox don't re-sign him, he will probably get what he's asking for from another team. I'm still not sold on Damian Miller, though, that's for sure.

jabrch
10-22-2004, 11:09 AM
I agree... there's no way he's worth $10 million a year. Like KW would pay him that anyway. 3/18 might be worth it, but you're probably right... if the Red Sox don't re-sign him, he will probably get what he's asking for from another team. I'm still not sold on Damian Miller, though, that's for sure.
I can live with Davis and Burke - provided money is spent on other places where we have needs. Catcher is not where I would like to see our FA investment.

My Priorities
SS (if we can get one of the top guys)
SP
RP
OF
C

Hangar18
10-22-2004, 11:12 AM
Benitez as a setup guy is very interesting. Heck, Id make him
the Closer, and Shingo his set up guy. We need to do something to
offset Reinsdorf/Williams Folly of basically Letting Gordon/Sullivan go
for the CHEAPER tandem of Mike "one more run" Jackson/Pollitte.
How many games did they blow together, where we had the Lead?
Where we were Tied?
Where we were coming back?

We make the playoffs ........ no doubt about it.

jabrch
10-22-2004, 11:31 AM
We need to do something to
offset Reinsdorf/Williams Folly of basically Letting Gordon/Sullivan go
I still don't understand this logic. Gordon got silly money from the Yanks. Sullivan was a GASCAN this year - he might have been WORSE than the guys who replaced him. How can you bitch about this? Well - I know the answer to that - but... Sullivan had a 4.77 ERA and a 1.61 WHIP this year - screw him. Gordon was one year removed from serious injury - and got huge cash from the Yanks. Would you really have tied up big money on those two? And if you did, where would you have taken that money from? Limited budget - you must economize somewhere. Not paying 4mm per for Gordon or 3mm for Sullivan was THE RIGHT MOVE.

Hangar18
10-22-2004, 11:42 AM
I still don't understand this logic. Gordon got silly money from the Yanks. Not paying 4mm per for Gordon or 3mm for Sullivan was THE RIGHT MOVE.
YES, the right move........but shouldve been used on SOMEONE ELSE!
we instead got Cheaper/Unproven guys ........ and we paid the price

jabrch
10-22-2004, 12:01 PM
YES, the right move........but shouldve been used on SOMEONE ELSE!
we instead got Cheaper/Unproven guys ........ and we paid the price
again - where would you have suggested we come up with 8mm for two RPs? Trade Magglio? PK? Carlos?