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View Full Version : Borchard can't handle the Mexican Pacific League either!


santo=dorf
10-21-2004, 06:31 PM
I don't know if this belongs in the minor league section, because unfortunately I think Joe Borchard will be on the team next year coming out of Spring Training.:(: From rotoworld:
Joe Borchard went 0-for-4 yesterday is 2-for-22 in six games in the Mexican Pacific League.
One of his two hits was a homer. Still, the White Sox can't be very impressed
Yeah, but how far did it go?

Joe B, please give back your $5 million to the Sox!

:LTP
"DUDE! I Suck!!!"

NonetheLoaiza
10-21-2004, 08:19 PM
yea but those numbers don't mean much. i mean, jose valentin's numbers were worse than that in AAA, and look at what he did for us...

Iguana775
10-21-2004, 08:38 PM
I'll give him till the all star break next year. if by then he doesnt prove he can hit MLB pitchers, it should be time to rethink his potential.

pudge
10-22-2004, 12:28 AM
I'll give him till the all star break next year. if by then he doesnt prove he can hit MLB pitchers, it should be time to rethink his potential.
It's been thought and re-thought... he sucks.

PavanoBeltran'05
10-22-2004, 09:37 AM
If you read the book Moneyball, this is the perfect example of a guy that they look at as a "throw him in the pile" type of guy. The perfect tools...no production.

SSN721
10-22-2004, 09:42 AM
Ugh, I held out crazy hope at the end of the season he might be better then he looked at first, he seemed to be iproving. But if he keeps tearing up the Mexican League like this I dont see what place he could possibly have with this team next year. Except starting right field of course. :(: :whiner: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

jabrch
10-22-2004, 10:24 AM
If you read the book Moneyball, this is the perfect example of a guy that they look at as a "throw him in the pile" type of guy. The perfect tools...no production.
Moneyball? Never heard of it. What's it about?

LVSoxFan
10-22-2004, 01:33 PM
I'll give him till the all star break next year. if by then he doesnt prove he can hit MLB pitchers, it should be time to rethink his potential.
I agree with you. Same goes for Willie Harris--it's time to start REALIZING that potential, or buh-bye.

MikeKreevich
10-22-2004, 01:51 PM
Borchard is in Mexico to work on hitting the breaking ball. Even if he does improve, you shouldn't expect immediate improvement.

Justafan
10-22-2004, 02:05 PM
http://www.cinemovie.info/TomBerenger/8.jpg
"Don't feel bad, Joe. I couldn't cut it in the mexican league either".

ewokpelts
10-22-2004, 02:09 PM
http://www.cinemovie.info/TomBerenger/8.jpg
"Don't feel bad, Joe. I couldn't cut it in the mexican league either".At least Tom Berenger got Rene Russo in the end. LTP dosent got the looks to score, even in the California Penal League.
Gene

soxfan26
10-22-2004, 02:14 PM
http://www.cinemovie.info/TomBerenger/8.jpg
"Don't feel bad, Joe. I couldn't cut it in the mexican league either".
:cheers: :rolling:

Soxzilla
10-22-2004, 02:43 PM
I think Joe needs to call in Cerrano in order to "make bats not afraid" of the breaking ball.:rolleyes:

idseer
10-22-2004, 04:10 PM
Borchard is in Mexico to work on hitting the breaking ball. Even if he does improve, you shouldn't expect immediate improvement.
i thought he was just there to get a tan. :cool:

just how long HAS he been working on hitting the breaking ball? did he just discover he couldn't hit it? and how long should he be given?

joe is a drain on the white sox economy and should be dealt or dropped asap!

Paulwny
10-22-2004, 04:24 PM
just how long HAS he been working on hitting the breaking ball? did he just discover he couldn't hit it? and how long should he be given?

joe is a drain on the white sox economy and should be dealt or dropped asap!
I guess they don't throw breaking pitches in AAA.

PaulDrake
10-22-2004, 05:00 PM
i thought he was just there to get a tan. :cool:

just how long HAS he been working on hitting the breaking ball? did he just discover he couldn't hit it? and how long should he be given?

joe is a drain on the white sox economy and should be dealt or dropped asap! You're right. The organization should just swallow their foolish pride and admit they made a 5 million dollar mistake and move on. Borchard just can't hit, his occasional 500+ foot HR is the rare exception to his almost uniformly miserable at bats. As we used to say back in the Stone Age when I was a kid. He stinks.

dickallen15
10-22-2004, 05:18 PM
You're right. The organization should just swallow their foolish pride and admit they made a 5 million dollar mistake and move on. Borchard just can't hit, his occasional 500+ foot HR is the rare exception to his almost uniformly miserable at bats. As we used to say back in the Stone Age when I was a kid. He stinks.
His bonus either has been paid in full, or will be pretty soon, and if it hasn't, no other organization would ever assume it. The fact that he has potential, and makes minimum is reason enough to keep him around. If he doesn't come around they can release him, or leave him unprotected, but I'm reading a drain on the White Sox economy, or he stinks. For a major leaguer right now he does stink. But why would it bother people if he is playing RF for Charlotte next season? Aaron Rowand pretty much sucked before this season, and he has played a heck of a lot more baseball than Borchard. Aren't you glad the Sox didn't release him?

Ol' No. 2
10-22-2004, 05:36 PM
You're right. The organization should just swallow their foolish pride and admit they made a 5 million dollar mistake and move on. Borchard just can't hit, his occasional 500+ foot HR is the rare exception to his almost uniformly miserable at bats. As we used to say back in the Stone Age when I was a kid. He stinks.Jeez, a guy has to come out of the minors and hit .300 right away or he stinks? Borchard has a total of 286 major league AB. That's about half of one season. Without trying I can come up with a list of HOF players who also sucked their first year. Mike Schmidt comes to mind. He hit .196 his first full year in the majors. I don't think I'd go into 2005 with him as my regular RF, but as it stands now, I'd keep him on the bench and play him once or twice a week to give him time to develop.

idseer
10-22-2004, 06:01 PM
Jeez, a guy has to come out of the minors and hit .300 right away or he stinks? Borchard has a total of 286 major league AB. That's about half of one season. Without trying I can come up with a list of HOF players who also sucked their first year. Mike Schmidt comes to mind. He hit .196 his first full year in the majors. I don't think I'd go into 2005 with him as my regular RF, but as it stands now, I'd keep him on the bench and play him once or twice a week to give him time to develop.
right! pick out a tremendous exception to prove your point. i'll take my chances on the side of ... he'll NEVER be any good! care to wager?

dickallen15
10-22-2004, 06:20 PM
right! pick out a tremendous exception to prove your point. i'll take my chances on the side of ... he'll NEVER be any good! care to wager?
Most players in the White Sox minor league system will NEVER be any good on the major league level. Going out on the proverbial limb and saying Borchard will never be any good, isn't really sticking your neck out. Are you really bothered by the prospect of him playing in Charlotte next season? He does have potential. Its probably against the odds he will realize it, but it hurts no one if he tries to realize it with the White Sox. Phil Nevin was a #1 pick, and was pretty bad his first few chances in the major leagues. So bad, in fact, he had to take up catching as a way to stick. He came on and had some good years. You can't get anything for Borchard, so what's the sense giving up on him?

idseer
10-22-2004, 06:27 PM
Most players in the White Sox minor league system will NEVER be any good on the major league level. Going out on the proverbial limb and saying Borchard will never be any good, isn't really sticking your neck out. Are you really bothered by the prospect of him playing in Charlotte next season? He does have potential. Its probably against the odds he will realize it, but it hurts no one if he tries to realize it with the White Sox. Phil Nevin was a #1 pick, and was pretty bad his first few chances in the major leagues. So bad, in fact, he had to take up catching as a way to stick. He came on and had some good years. You can't get anything for Borchard, so what's the sense giving up on him?
it wasn't my intent to stick my neck out. it was my intent to predict his future.
incidently, i have no problem with him kicking around our minor league system ... as long as he doesn't get in any good player's way.

hey, some of you want to pretend he may come around ... be my guest.

Mohoney
10-22-2004, 07:11 PM
Jeez, a guy has to come out of the minors and hit .300 right away or he stinks?
I think that this mentality has caught on around here because of the mind-boggling success that the Twins have had producing quality players like Lew Ford and Johan Santana. I guess it's only natural for some Sox fans to feel this way, given the fact that our primary competition in our division seems to crank out slick-fielding clutch hitters like they grow on trees.

We need to realize that the Twins are more the exception than the rule before we can effectively judge our farm system.

idseer
10-22-2004, 07:30 PM
I think that this mentality has caught on around here because of the mind-boggling success that the Twins have had producing quality players like Lew Ford and Johan Santana. I guess it's only natural for some Sox fans to feel this way, given the fact that our primary competition in our division seems to crank out slick-fielding clutch hitters like they grow on trees.

We need to realize that the Twins are more the exception than the rule before we can effectively judge our farm system.
the sox used to have players mlb ready. they've had their fair share of rookies of the year.
some sox who've come out ready would include frank, magglio, aaron, carlos, buehrle, durham, harold, baldwin, ventura, guillan, mcdowell, radinsky, thigpen, and kittle, and a lot more going back further.
i don't think it's asking too much to have a system that actually has guys ready to play. lately it's just not happening. no one in the last 2 or 3 years (and that includes olivo who i don't see as either ready or good enough).

Daver
10-22-2004, 07:32 PM
I think that this mentality has caught on around here because of the mind-boggling success that the Twins have had producing quality players like Lew Ford and Johan Santana. I guess it's only natural for some Sox fans to feel this way, given the fact that our primary competition in our division seems to crank out slick-fielding clutch hitters like they grow on trees.

We need to realize that the Twins are more the exception than the rule before we can effectively judge our farm system.
I don't know that I would call the Twins the exception, they do things far differently at the minor league levels than most other teams. Good hitters will sit in the lower end of their system forever if they can't field their position. The Twins philosophy is to produce complete ballplayers that are team players, and they do it at every level of their minor league system, whereas a hitter that can hit will make his way through the Sox sytem fairly rapidly, whether he is a good defensive player or not.

Mohoney
10-22-2004, 07:42 PM
I don't know that I would call the Twins the exception, they do things far differently at the minor league levels than most other teams. Good hitters will sit in the lower end of their system forever if they can't field their position. The Twins philosophy is to produce complete ballplayers that are team players, and they do it at every level of their minor league system, whereas a hitter that can hit will make his way through the Sox sytem fairly rapidly, whether he is a good defensive player or not.
I just meant that the results are an exception to the rule, when compared to most other farm systems in baseball. They have the most homegrown players of any playoff team, right?

Parrothead
10-22-2004, 07:50 PM
I don't care where Borchard is playing as long as it is not with the White Sox MLB team.

Daver
10-22-2004, 08:00 PM
I just meant that the results are an exception to the rule, when compared to most other farm systems in baseball. They have the most homegrown players of any playoff team, right?
They have the most homegrown players in all of baseball at any given time. The Twins are not big players in the FA market, they produce their own talent because they have to, hence the reason they approach their minor leuge system different than most teams. When Terry Ryan and Jim Rantz draft a player, they are drafting him to play for the Twins, not as a player to be used in a trade down the road (Ala KW drafting Royce Ring in the first round as trade bait) They draft to their needs at AA, not to their needs at the MLB level, and do it successfully, Terry Ryan is a very under rated GM as far as I am concerned.

PaulDrake
10-22-2004, 08:04 PM
His bonus either has been paid in full, or will be pretty soon, and if it hasn't, no other organization would ever assume it. The fact that he has potential, and makes minimum is reason enough to keep him around. If he doesn't come around they can release him, or leave him unprotected, but I'm reading a drain on the White Sox economy, or he stinks. For a major leaguer right now he does stink. But why would it bother people if he is playing RF for Charlotte next season? Aaron Rowand pretty much sucked before this season, and he has played a heck of a lot more baseball than Borchard. Aren't you glad the Sox didn't release him? Rowand in no way set the world on fire his first three years, but look up the stats, he wasn't nearly as bad as Borchard. Look, if Borchard pans out then bring this thread up when it happens and I'll gladly wash down my crow with a few beers. I want the Sox to do well far more than I want to be right. That being said, I'll be shocked if Borchard proves me wrong. Our farm system has disappointed greatly and I suppose some want to believe or see some "potential" in Borchard. I see a really lousy baseball player.

HomeFish
10-22-2004, 10:28 PM
To whoever compared Willie to Borchard, please apologize to Mr. Harris immediately. Willie has at least had sustained flashes of brilliance in his MLB career -- he was hitting .320 during the first half of the season, after all.

When has Borchard had any flashes of brilliance lasting longer than one game?