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View Full Version : Keith Foulke sucks


FoulkeFan
10-20-2004, 10:25 AM
He can't close out the big games. He doesn't throw hard enough. He only has two pitches.

Isn't that what a lot of people around here used to say? Not to mention the geniuses (Manuel and Williams) who demoted him after he blew some saves!

Justafan
10-20-2004, 10:30 AM
This will go down as Kenny's worst move by far. The more you think about, the more sick you have to be.

Hangar18
10-20-2004, 10:30 AM
He can't close out the big games. He doesn't throw hard enough. He only has two pitches.

Isn't that what a lot of people around here used to say? Not to mention the geniuses (Manuel and Williams) who demoted him after he blew some saves!
IM not sure if your being sarcastic (teal), but he didnt have his stuff
yesterday. He threw his bread-and-butter ChangeUp like 4 times only
the whole inning. He wisely kept Everything Away away away against
the lefties, but wound up walking 2 guys because of that. One pitch was
right down the middle on 2-0, I think the hitter Clark had the take sign,
but that pitch couldve been parked in the LF Upper Deck .........

Im not sure if the Yanks stank and couldnt hit Foulke, or if Foulke just gutted
it out and got the save when he needed it. Needless to say, the FOX
guys kept gushing about him and the job hes done this year for the BOSOX,
including that miniscule ERA ........

anewman35
10-20-2004, 10:35 AM
This will go down as Kenny's worst move by far. The more you think about, the more sick you have to be.
The trade sucked, clearly. But, in the long run, it lost us one year of Foulke and got us a (possibly) decent shortstop. It's not like the trade by itself really did a whole lot past 2003.

Hangar18
10-20-2004, 10:38 AM
This will go down as Kenny's worst move by far. The more you think about, the more sick you have to be.
The Foulke for Koch move was made for ONE REASON ONLY .........
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Thank this guy for that "trade" ..........

:reinsy
" What? This is Kennys fault, I was only Kidding with him when I told
him that Foulkie was going to cost us some big $$$$ the next couple years,
and get us a guy that has a guaranteed contract instead "

Justafan
10-20-2004, 10:41 AM
Imagine if you will, Gordon as your 7th inning guy, Shingo as your set-up man and Foulke as the closer.:o:

Justafan
10-20-2004, 10:43 AM
Not to mention Marte as a situational lefty.

Tekijawa
10-20-2004, 10:45 AM
Imagine if you will, Gordon as your 7th inning guy, Shingo as your set-up man and Foulke as the closer.:o:
Every fifth game the wouldn't have got the oportunity to pitch and last I checked none of those guys had any RBI's this year that would have helped in the games where we didn't score any runs...

Justafan
10-20-2004, 10:47 AM
Every fifth game the wouldn't have got the oportunity to pitch and last I checked none of those guys had any RBI's this year that would have helped in the games where we didn't score any runs...
You must not have seen all the MOMENTUM killing games that Jackson and Koch choked away.

Rocky Soprano
10-20-2004, 10:49 AM
I cant believe all the Foulke haters. You must be BLIND! I dont give a crap if he wasnt in top form last night, he got the save right? He did his job right? Thats all that matters.

Last time I checked, Mr. Mariano blew his last two tries.

Getting rid of Foulke was the stupidest thing this team has ever done!

Foulke! Foulke! Foulke! :bandance:

fquaye149
10-20-2004, 11:13 AM
:whiner::whiner::whiner:


yeah he's pitched well in these big games. It helps when you're in the ALCS to have the opportunity. I noticed Loaiza pitched pretty well too. Everytime an ex-sox pitches well do we have to blame kenny for trading him away? If you want to blame someone for losing Foulke, blame Manuel. End of story.

jshanahanjr
10-20-2004, 11:27 AM
Manuel is the guy to blame. Foulke blew some big games in 2000(playoffs), 2001 (Seattle), and 2002 (Seattle, Yankee$), but Manuel had no confidence in him. Manuel dropped the ball on him, and KW dropped the ball by not canning him sooner.

Hangar18
10-20-2004, 11:33 AM
Imagine if you will, Gordon as your 7th inning guy, Shingo as your set-up man and Foulke as the closer.:o:

:reinsy

" Again with the 'What-if-we-kept-Gordon-Foulke' ! You SOX fans never look
at the Big Picture! Look at the MONEY WE SAVED getting rid of them!

CubKilla
10-20-2004, 11:34 AM
The trade sucked, clearly. But, in the long run, it lost us one year of Foulke and got us a (possibly) decent shortstop. It's not like the trade by itself really did a whole lot past 2003.
You must have forgot about all of the blown saves courtesy of Botch, against good and bad teams alike, through the midway point of 2004.

JRIG
10-20-2004, 11:40 AM
The trade sucked, clearly. But, in the long run, it lost us one year of Foulke and got us a (possibly) decent shortstop. It's not like the trade by itself really did a whole lot past 2003.
No, but there's a decent chance it cost us a division championship in 2003. For whatever that's worth...

gosox41
10-20-2004, 11:44 AM
The trade sucked, clearly. But, in the long run, it lost us one year of Foulke and got us a (possibly) decent shortstop. It's not like the trade by itself really did a whole lot past 2003.
It cost the 2003 team a shot at the playoffs. If the 2003 team had made the playoffs it's possible 2004 payroll would have been significantly higher and maybe things would have been different.

It also cost the Sox a chance at 2 draft picks for losing Foulke to FA if the Sox had let him go.



Bob

thepaulbowski
10-20-2004, 12:09 PM
Boy, how many times must we go down this road?

batmanZoSo
10-20-2004, 01:00 PM
He can't close out the big games. He doesn't throw hard enough. He only has two pitches.

Isn't that what a lot of people around here used to say? Not to mention the geniuses (Manuel and Williams) who demoted him after he blew some saves!

There's still one more game. And maybe seven more after that. I want him to succeed, but he can be hard to trust at times. Especially now that he's pitched in the last three games or so and a couple of the times it was for multiple innings. It will be an adventure tonight.

gosox41
10-20-2004, 01:23 PM
There's still one more game. And maybe seven more after that. I want him to succeed, but he can be hard to trust at times. Especially now that he's pitched in the last three games or so and a couple of the times it was for multiple innings. It will be an adventure tonight.
What closer can be trusted 100%. Maybe Gagne. Maybe Mariano Rivera who has had his moments in the playfoffs.

There are only a couple of lights out guys out there, and they're not even 100%. Keith Foulke is one of the better closers in the game and better in his worst year then Koch was in his best.


Bob

jackbrohamer
10-20-2004, 01:45 PM
Sheesh, rough crowd. Foulke won't prove himself a reliable closer unless he saves it tonight & wins the World Series?

idseer
10-20-2004, 02:33 PM
I cant believe all the Foulke haters. You must be BLIND! I dont give a crap if he wasnt in top form last night, he got the save right? He did his job right? Thats all that matters.

Last time I checked, Mr. Mariano blew his last two tries.

Getting rid of Foulke was the stupidest thing this team has ever done!

Foulke! Foulke! Foulke! :bandance:
and i recall at the beginning of this season people here saying EXACTLY the same thing about koch! "he got the save and that's all that counts".
well bull hockey! a pitcher can get a save without being very effective so there ARE other ways to judge whether they are good or not.
now i'm not arguing that foulke isn't any good. clearly he is. but your statement is that the getting the save is all that matters is just wrong.

CubKilla
10-20-2004, 02:37 PM
Boy, how many times must we go down this road?
What's the old saying? "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it"?

Rocky Soprano
10-20-2004, 02:41 PM
and i recall at the beginning of this season people here saying EXACTLY the same thing about koch! "he got the save and that's all that counts".
well bull hockey! a pitcher can get a save without being very effective so there ARE other ways to judge whether they are good or not.
now i'm not arguing that foulke isn't any good. clearly he is. but your statement is that the getting the save is all that matters is just wrong.
Yesterday he made interesting, before that, he was pretty dominant. All I said was that YESTERDAY he got the save and thats all that matters.

Now lets take a look at Koch, the few games he did save he made them pretty interesting, now lets say that he would of never blown a save for us, but made every single opportunity interesting. Would he still be here?

Closers jobs are to save games. Some are more efficient at it ala Gagne, others might make it more interesting. To me what matters is at the end of the season how many games did he save vs how many he blew.

hitlesswonder
10-20-2004, 03:14 PM
What closer can be trusted 100%. Maybe Gagne. Maybe Mariano Rivera who has had his moments in the playfoffs.

There are only a couple of lights out guys out there, and they're not even 100%. Keith Foulke is one of the better closers in the game and better in his worst year then Koch was in his best.


Bob
I agree completely. I liked him when he was with the Sox, and I still think he's a very good reliever. As you said, he's not automatic but very few are. I think the trauma of blown saves (and everyone blows a key game sometime) makes most fans think their team's closer can't handle pressure situations. Foulke was lucky last night, he didn't have good stuff and managed to get by against the lower part of the Yankees order. But he was pitching for third time in three days (including a 2 2/3 inning stretch in game 4). If Boston has to bring him out tonight, I wonder how much he'll have left. Anyway, I'm happy to see there are some other Sox fans who think Foulke isn't a choke artist. I gives me hope that I'm not delusional (or at least I'm not the only one).

JoseCanseco6969
10-20-2004, 03:19 PM
The Foulke for Koch move was made for ONE REASON ONLY .........
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Thank this guy for that "trade" ..........

:reinsy
" What? This is Kennys fault, I was only Kidding with him when I told
him that Foulkie was going to cost us some big $$$$ the next couple years,
and get us a guy that has a guaranteed contract instead "well if big money means less less than his 2002 salary i guess

foulke
2001Chicago White Sox $3,100,000
2002Chicago White Sox $4,000,000
2003Oakland Athletics $6,000,000
2004Boston Red Sox$3,500,000

Koch
2002Oakland Athletics $2,433,333
2003Chicago White Sox $4,250,000
2004Chicago White Sox $6,375,000

who paid more??? mr cheapskate? get your facts straight before you blame every move KW makes on mr cheap JR.
Most of us were thrilled to get rid of Foulke for Koch at the time because we got the relief man of the year for a demoted closer to setup man.

PaulDrake
10-20-2004, 04:24 PM
well if big money means less less than his 2002 salary i guess

foulke
2001Chicago White Sox $3,100,000
2002Chicago White Sox $4,000,000
2003Oakland Athletics $6,000,000
2004Boston Red Sox$3,500,000

Koch
2002Oakland Athletics $2,433,333
2003Chicago White Sox $4,250,000
2004Chicago White Sox $6,375,000

who paid more??? mr cheapskate? get your facts straight before you blame every move KW makes on mr cheap JR.
Most of us were thrilled to get rid of Foulke for Koch at the time because we got the relief man of the year for a demoted closer to setup man. Are you still just as thrilled?

gosox41
10-21-2004, 09:01 AM
I agree completely. I liked him when he was with the Sox, and I still think he's a very good reliever. As you said, he's not automatic but very few are. I think the trauma of blown saves (and everyone blows a key game sometime) makes most fans think their team's closer can't handle pressure situations. Foulke was lucky last night, he didn't have good stuff and managed to get by against the lower part of the Yankees order. But he was pitching for third time in three days (including a 2 2/3 inning stretch in game 4). If Boston has to bring him out tonight, I wonder how much he'll have left. Anyway, I'm happy to see there are some other Sox fans who think Foulke isn't a choke artist. I gives me hope that I'm not delusional (or at least I'm not the only one).

I've probably been the biggest objector to the Foulke/Koch trade when it was first made. It's the number one reason I can't stand KW. I didn't need to sit and wait to see what happens or get excited because a guy throws real hard (and straight). It was a mistake from day 1.

We're not the delusional ones. There's a lot of misinformation in baseball because people tend to remember one or 2 rare events (blown saves in this case) and not converted saves. But the numbers tell it like it is. No getting around that.


Bob